22 Mar 2017 09:34:57
Hey ed01, I caught a fairly intiguing discussion between ed007 and united fans on their page (while browsing for ed02's gospel) - it was about youth players, how rarely they make it in big clubs, and that usually this is due to them not being of the necessary level.
It saddened me a little, because my sincere hope is that Liverpool will manage to integrate some of the academy graduates into the squad - and not only in the short term. However, reality does seem to point that most youth players from big clubs need to make a move to less sunny pastures to make progress as regulars, and then and only then SOME of them might make it in a bigger club.

With that in mind, would care to make a prognosis - an objective one, without the rose tint of fan glasses - about which of our youth players we will be seeing in Liverpool colors in 3 or 4 years time?
Of course, this is with the view that A LOT of things will change as they develop, so let us base it on the current level they are showing.

Sadly, I have a suspicion that the cold realities of football will push a lot of the kids out of the door - in most cases for their own good. If I have to be realistic, it is only TAA that I see as having a shot of taking a starting or rotational role in the long term.
Of course, I do hope that I would be wrong, because I am already a fan of Ben Woodburn, and do hope that Ojo OR Wilson will also manage to claim a rotation role (sadly, I do not see both of them making it) . Joe Gomez, also huge hopes he will make it, though CB is one of the most merciless positions in terms of youth chances - at least at the top levels.

{Ed001's Note - it is nothing to do with ability, he was quite simply massively wide of the mark. Ability is never the key factor, there has always been hundreds of players with more than enough ability spread around club academies. The issue is that ability is not the main factor.

You have attitude. Most players fall down here, they give up because they don't see a route into the first team and they have had everything too easy up to then. The first hurdle will often kill off a player who just hasn't got the right fire. Sometimes it can be the opposite, that they waltz into the first team too easily and strut around thinking they have made it, so they stop working as hard, without even realising it most of the time. Attitude is the most cruicial thing though.

There is physique as well. We still have the idiotic notion in some places about size of players being more important than ability. So big lumps with no ability or lightning fast players with a terrible first touch get into the team ahead of a player with genuine touch and skill but little pace or size.

Then there is the problem of short-termism. Every manager knows they are only as good as their last result, so do not want to take a risk on developing a youth team player when they will not reap the benefits. They would rather put in a readymade player. Which also goes hand in hand with luck. Young players need luck, a forced sale or injury crisis, to get a proper chance to show what they can do. That often does not come along for them.

The academies themselves are a big part of the problem, in my opinion, as they hand everything on a plate to youngsters. That is why so many fall at the first hurdle, they have no idea how to cope with setbacks or having to earn something.}

1.) 22 Mar 2017
22 Mar 2017 10:26:36
I really like the sound of Pepjin Linders though.

He has recently praised Woodburn and Arnold even referencing how much emphasis is put on size nowadays, but that these 2 debunk the myth that stature matters.

I am not sure how much Linders had to do with it but I also like that our academy lads are being made to take referee courses. Put the shoe on the other foot for them when they are the one getting hounded for decisions. I think we have some excellent players in the academy with the perfect attitude.

Gomez and Stewart for me are the 2 who have proven they can over come set backs and not let it phase them. Gomez's career was devastated by injury but he has come back fighting. Got himself a new long term contract and made a real impression with Klopp.

Stewart though has some real character; rejected by Tottenham, sent on loan by us as a wide/ defensive player, and then at 22/ 23 I think it was Beale put him in midfield and asked him to start the whole development process again, and he just accepted it, got on with it, and now works hard every day to learn this new role so he can make it at the top.

Restarting that development trail has probably set him back 3 years in terms of earning potential and first team readiness. Just listen to his interviews though. He is so determined to make it at the top that he would literally give up a good career at a West Brom to try and make a great career at the top.

It reminds me of the fighting mentality Henderson and Lucas have. He earned his new 4 year contract and I really hope he makes it at LFC long term.

We can only pray Arnold, Woodburn and Brewster bounce back from their first set backs as well.

2.) 22 Mar 2017
22 Mar 2017 12:21:06
Great analysis, Ed. The more important issue for me is focusing more on a player's physical size and athleticism over raw skill and a great first touch. This is a fool's errand. This is how many academies not just in England fail. France has failed miserably in this regard since the 1998 World Cup, won by players who where physical monsters like Desailly, Blanc, Karembeau, Thuram and the like except Zidane who was technically gifted but still no slouch physically.

They started focusing more on physical specimens instead of raw skill and talent. This is how Griezmann was rejected by every French academy cos he was too frail and too small for them even tho, he was technically gifted and had the desire to become a professional football, to Ed's point regarding attitude. He then goes to Spain where they focus more on touch, skill, movement and now he is worth 100m.

The Dutch do the same thing which is why Dutch players have been known for their technical quality because like the Spanish, they know that they are not physical beasts naturally BUT can counter this "flaw" by being technically gifted which they are and their academies focus on that as well hence, the technically gifted players that have come out of Holland over the decades. Until academies in England learn this, they will continue to fail.

3.) 22 Mar 2017
22 Mar 2017 15:30:22
Totally agree, look at Crewe a club with minuscule financial resources who give youth a chance and many of their young players have careers at a higher level - their managers are encouraged to give young players time and opportunities. I wish clubs would focus more on player development but it seems that managers are either unwilling or afraid to give young players a chance. Fans also play their part imo too, they expect 18 year olds to be fantastic on their debuts or being as consistent as 28 year olds. It's sad that young talents continue to disappear.

4.) 22 Mar 2017
22 Mar 2017 16:00:20
It is a beautiful picture Thomo. sadly, I do not see it happening in the coming years. The fanbase is growing rather "toxic", as the eds say. They will be up in arms if the club is perceived to be underachieving due to giving youth a chance. However, some sort of balance should be achievable for Liverpool FC. Not all of the youth talents will break through, or even get a fair chance, but here is to hoping that in five years time, we will be singing songs for Woodburn and Trent and Joe :>.

5.) 22 Mar 2017
22 Mar 2017 17:22:24
I agree with Ed on this, seems less to do with ability but more to do with
1) mental aptitude and ability to stay humble and work hard as they enter the spotlight
2) limited opportunities/ pitch time to be able to adapt to the higher level and prove yourself (especially tough ask considering how long it takes for even world class players to get back to form after time out)
3) limited appetite from PL managers to risk their careers by playing an unproven youngster on a regular basis instead of just dipping into the transfer market for a proven player
4) simple Maths. dozens of youngsters coming through each year but very very few first team spots for them to realistically challenge for

I also don't think it's helped by the notable difference in level between u23 and the PL. hard to step up without playing professional league elsewhere first, but loans are notoriously hit and miss

Eg. I personally can see Ojo, Wilson, Woodburn all having the ability to be very good PL standard forwards if they get playing time to develop properly, it's just very hard to see how you get enough pitch time for all of them when you probably only have a few games a year where Klopp is prepared to drop his regular front 3 (never mind Origi, Ings etc. also wanting to play) . how can he possibly develop all 3 without loans?

It's a tough game,

6.) 23 Mar 2017
22 Mar 2017 23:10:54
Ed's points are all correct but realism has to be considered. Over the last 50 years how many great Liverpool players have come through the academy? 10, 15 maybe? Yet every year we look at the latest graduates and anoint them as future stars, we say they have to be better than player X but the reality is they don't, the worst Liverpool player is still a brilliant footballer and most graduates won't reach that level.

Every few years we can expect one or two to make the grade and we should be content with that. The sadness is the last one who was good enough thought he was bigger than the club and forced his way out. There's a chance that someone from the current crop will make it but I'll remain sceptical of that until they're in the first team.