23 Jan 2018 10:59:01
Hi MK.
Hope your well bud.
This is no way a argument. Just a convo 👍
I read that you think Klopp got it wrong last night. Can I ask why you think that mate?

1.) 23 Jan 2018
23 Jan 2018 11:17:42
Of course he does we lost so klopp got it wrong the last 18 unbeaten klopp largely got it right but let’s all throw a wobbly for losing one. “This always happens against teams outside the top 7” 18 unbeaten must’ve played against some of the lower league teams in that time.

2.) 23 Jan 2018
23 Jan 2018 11:20:56
Personally mate, i don't understand why he gave Emre Can the arm band. I know too much is made of the importance of who is captain, but for me, giving it to a player who openly doesn't want to play for club is a massive middle finger to the players who do.

On top of that, everyone knew Swansea would sit in and try and frustrate us. So i personally would've started TAA at right back, and given Gomez a nice easy game at centre back. Let's be honest, Swansea barely got at our defence. Arnold also would've put in some better corners than the rubbish Salah served up. Speaking of corners, Klopp really needs to re-evaluate how he defends them. Just leave Salah on the half way line, and put two of your smallest players on the posts. They won't win an aerial dual anyway, so they're offering more defensively if they are readily placed to make a goal line clearance.

On top of that, why has Klopp picked Can and Gini together against a team where we were always going to have 65-70% possession? Can and Gini are both limited on the ball. Gini is best when pressing, and Can is best when he having to get stuck in to a physical battle. In possession, neither player has the speed of thought, the craft, the guile or the composure to hurt opposition. If Lallana was not fit to start, put Woodburn in there. I think even Milner could've offered more offensively than Gini or Can. You don't want Milner on the pitch if we're defending because he's a headless chicken, but he does make better forward runs than Gini and Can do. The decision to then sub Ox who was our only midfielder trying to make something happen, was equally terrible.

If Klopp didn't feel comfortable with Lallana, Milner or Woodburn though, he could've opted for the route i would've taken and played an extra striker instead of Gini or Can. Firmino got crowded out. I would've gone for Solanke before the game started if I'm honest, but Ings showed he could've done some damage if he'd had longer than 15 minutes! I'd start Ings vs West Brom if I'm honest.

Klopp does seem to learn (slowly) from mistakes and I'm just a humble arm chair fan at the end of the day. This is just where i thought he got it wrong. Football is subjective though, and Klopp will have his own ideas on what he got wrong so I'll back him to rectify it in his own way. The players were just as much to blame though as they missed some absolute sitters, scuffed set pieces, showed no urgency, and took too long in the build up play.

It was just one of them days where everything went wrong, but i don't think anyone can say it would've been an outlandish selection choice to pick Arnold and another striker against bottom of the league Swansea! In fact i bet 9/ 10 fans would've started Arnold in this game. Onwards and upwards mate.

3.) 23 Jan 2018
23 Jan 2018 11:32:44
He got it wrong by playing Wijnaldum against a team that we knew would just sit back, sideways Wijnaldum has no zip in his play to unlock a defence and can't pass the ball more than 7 yards, the midfield were very slow to get going last night, hence our centre backs bringing the ball out more and creating more chances than Can And Wijnaldum put together, it took Klopp until the 68th minute as usual to change things and took off Ox before Wijnaldum which made zero sense, Id rather have Woodburn play deep than Gini as he has much more about him.

4.) 23 Jan 2018
23 Jan 2018 11:42:50
The same thing always happens. If we are playing a top side we come out of the traps from the first second, pressing, closing down, forcing mistakes and winning it back.

Against the lesser teams we start off at pedestrian pace, thinking we only have to turn up and let them reorganise before we can get it forward. There is no urgency and, if we don’t get the early goal, the opposition gain confidence and grab a goal from a set piece.

Once they have scored, they sit back even more and crowd us out.

It’s like a movie that we have seen over and over again. The reality is that these games prevent us challenging every season.

5.) 23 Jan 2018
23 Jan 2018 11:46:15
Start Arnold maybe but not the extra striker because if we lost, he'd have been accused of complacency by a fickle few - no need for big changes, definitely should have kept Chamberlain on and brought Arnold on though.

6.) 23 Jan 2018
23 Jan 2018 12:03:45
MK, I agree that Wiji (who was a ghost all game) should not be playing if we are going to have 70% possession. I also agree that Ox should never have come off either. Maybe Klopp wanted to keep us secure while we keep probing as he has done before several times this season and has worked, I don't know. I get that.

As for the arm band, this is to me a non argument. The arm band for some reason, seems to be a sticking point for this club from heaven knows where. Players play in the end. An arm band is nothing but a piece of cloth and it does not say if you are a leader or not. You may have only one capt. BUT you should have multiple leaders in the team. SG did not win the CL on his own neither did Rafa. He was capt, BUT he had Hypopian, Hamman, Dudek and Carra in that team.

I think this is why Klopp does not respond to such things in the media as to him and many other foreign managers, the arm band is no big deal as some national teams rotate it and others well, don't care as every man and his dog knows no one player or capt. wins a game on his own.

That said, I agree with your points regarding how we played and how poor we were. We have NEVER lost back to back games under Klopp which is a feat its own regarding how many lose their marbles on here and other sites after we lose or draw. He will rectify it as that perf. level should NEVER happen again regardless of result.

7.) 23 Jan 2018
23 Jan 2018 12:15:29
If I am not mistaken other than switching Lovren for VVD it was the same team that beat City, I think he was rewarding them for that performance by playing the same again. Lovren has been ill so that change was necessary.

However saying that I agree with what has been said above, Trent would of provided more width and threat in attack and also a better set piece delivery. I actually think we missed Moreno last night too as Robertson still does not look comfortable to me in advanced positions.

I would of started Ings with Firmino due to his work rate and movement, Solanke to come off the bench to provide a different option later in the game.

When we sold Coutinho my concern was not for the big games as we showed last week we can win them without him, but I think we will miss him most when we come up against stubborn defences and we need a bit of magic from midfield.

8.) 23 Jan 2018
23 Jan 2018 12:16:43
Yeah i agree with that Kev. I personally would've started Solanke, but i appreciate that is a left field suggestion. Starting Arnold just seemed like common sense. As soon as i saw the team sheet i knew we'd struggle if Swansea played a low block, because Gomez and Robertson can't cross accurately enough and width is important in these games. They're both better defensively than offensively which is not what we needed in this game.

9.) 23 Jan 2018
23 Jan 2018 12:17:37
Spot on MK, was the right game to try Gomez as CB with VVD instead of the awful Matip. The world knew they would sit back so why such a defensive team, same players who always struggle against the park the bus team, for God’s sake change it up a bit and give the opposition something different to play against. I think MKS idea of another striker would have caused much more concern, why not try it when we struggle so often against these formations.

10.) 23 Jan 2018
23 Jan 2018 12:17:48
I can understand why Klopp was adamant on Sessengon and Mendy! The only way to beat a bus parker is to stretch them using your full backs or try a 40 yard screamer!
Our full backs doesn’t provide any width, which makes our play narrow and very easy to defend against. We also lack any creativity in the middle to unlock such teams.

11.) 23 Jan 2018
23 Jan 2018 12:48:33
Had Salah scored that 1v1 volley, instead of kicking it 10 meters high in the air and had Mane not slipped at that 1v1 volley and had Firmino not hit the post, then probably nobody would disagree with Klopp's tactics :)

12.) 23 Jan 2018
23 Jan 2018 12:50:55
Sometimes you have drop off and allow such teams to have the ball. Draw them out, have faith in the team defensively to win back the ball, then get them on the counter with our greatest threat: pace.

Last night was more of a tactical error. We clearly do not have creativity in the midfield area, and I said this after the City game when someone posted "Coutinwho", that Coutinho is most effective when we play against teams that park the bus. He is a game changer, and has the ability to create something out of nothing. We no longer have that creativity in midfield. And the so called lesser teams (and United under Mourinho) are going to love playing against us so long as Klopp has no idea how to play against these defensive teams.

13.) 23 Jan 2018
23 Jan 2018 13:37:15
Replacing one of the midfield or one full backs might make a small difference but why is no one digging out the front 3? People gave them endless praise and rightly so agains't City, but they were all crap last night.

The formation doesn't work well enough agains't the defensive teams it has been proven too many times now. Firmino runs away from goal but they still have 5 defenders left there is no space. Then he gets the golden chance in the last minute and misses. Our 2 best chances came from VVD crosses, that says it all.

I agree with a lot of other points on Gini, Can etc but you know what you will get from them. It is not there job to breakdown the opposition because they just don't have the ability to do it. I don't think Lallana can do it much better either.

It was a bad bad night but it won't be the last this season and that is the biggest worry.

14.) 23 Jan 2018
23 Jan 2018 13:42:32
To me, all Klopp got wrong was Gomez over Trent - Gomez is not good going forward, never had been and in a game where we knew we would experience sod all pressure on our back line, we really could have done with Trent's directness. Aside from that, we just failed to hit the target when opportunities presented itself. To a lesser extent than the Everton match, we did enough to win it yesterday and any other day Salah and Firmino bury their chances and we've walked off with 3 points. Happens.

15.) 23 Jan 2018
23 Jan 2018 15:46:15
Interesting reads all. What this site should be about. Open conversation rather than bitching and moaning throughout a post.
I can see what your saying about TAA guys. Unfortunately we don’t see what’s going on in the Melwood training facility and we can only surmise to fitness levels of players.
Personally I think overall, the team that started had enough in it to score on more than one occasion. We just didn’t have our shooting boots on.
The only sad factor with Ings (personally I’m a fan) was he didn’t put the ball in the back of the net. Couple of loose touches (happens to all)
What’s to say TAA is in bad form at training and JG is doing okay. A real tough one to call.
With Can and the armband, I think from a previous post I read that Klopp likes to give the armband to the longest serving player on the pitch?
I am very much Can to be sold. It is a business and if he wants to go. We have to get something for him rather than nothing.
Keep up the convo guys. Appreciate it.