24 Jan 2018 12:29:36
mr dennis,

in response to one of your posts recently about spurs and chelsea having much stronger starting 11's, midfields, cb, gk - remind me why that isn't reflected in the league table?

the last time I checked we're above spurs and a matter of 3 points behind chelsea after 2/ 3 of the season played.

either we're performing above what should be expected (in which case what are you moaning about) .

OR

having the best individual players doesn't really matter and it's about how you perform as a team.

either way our situation isn't as disastrous as many would have us believe.

1.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 12:40:37
Our situation is not as good as you think either. The truth is somewhere in between. We have a massive battle for fourth that is the level we are at.

2.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 12:42:19
I just said the same thing in the initial thread.

2 of Mr dennis’s Factual statements were to forget about Virgil as he was nailed on for city and to forget about a victory against the cos we had no chance.

I’m learning to realise there isn’t much backing these statements up, least of all the latest one.

3.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 13:02:39
Yes we have a battle for 4th, same as 4 other teams. Most have been ther more consistently than us in recent years. Difference being I think we’re on the up and most of them on the down now. There is only one team we’re not at the same level with ( consistently) is city and we beat them so we are more than capable. To say the others are ahead of us as a team is just plain wrong.

4.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 13:05:01
I judge a squad by how many players it has who you would say are world class OR top 10 in the world in their position OR get in any team OR however else you want to classify a top, top player!

Chelsea have Kante, Hazard, Azpilicueta and Courtois (4 total)

United have De Gea, Pogba and now Sanchez (3 total)

Spurs have Lloris, Alderweireld and Kane (3 total)

Liverpool have Salah, Firmino and Mane (3 total)

Arsenal have Ozil (1 total)

City have Walker, Silva, De Bruyne, Aguero, Sane and Sterling (6)

This is why City will win the league. Not because when they make a sub they can bring on Bernardo instead of Lallana. City will win the league because they have at least 6 players in their starting XI who could walk into nearly every side in Europe.

Our problem is that if you look at the rest of the teams, they have their top, top players spread through the team; attackers, midfielders, defenders or keepers. All of our quality is up top. Maybe Van Dijk and Keita can change that and put us closer to competing with Man City but right now, we're top heavy which is why we were the only team able to simply outscore Man City. It is also why i agree with Mr Dennis that the other sides, right now, have better starting line-ups. They are more balanced than we are. You can kill team by simply cutting the supply to the front 3.

Aside from Man City though, i think we are good enough to compete with everyone else in the league over 38 games.

5.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 13:31:02
Salah, Firmino and Sane are WORLD class?!
We are miles off agreeing what constitutes a world class player .
Three good players, one of which is having a great season . Not one is world class .

6.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 13:43:48
We did up until recently have 4 with Couts. With VVD in the mix we are more than capable of competing with the other big 5. Finishing outside of the top four this season would be a disaster. With Keita and a top goalie in the summer we should be contending for the title next season for sure. Top 4, CL and FA cup finals this season will be more than satisfactory.

7.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 14:06:16
If you’re going to question that lastman, surely you should question Walker and Sterling?

I think the point that MK makes us valid to an extent though, it’s about how many in the team that can be considered game changers week in week out vs. just very good footballers. Our problem is clearly we lack game changers in midfield (except perhaps Lallana at a push) compared to City who have KDB, Chelsea with Kante/ Hazard, Man Utd with Pogba etc. and of course at GK where most of the top 5/ 6 have one.

8.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 14:18:50
I actually called them top, top players (i only alluded to the fact that others classify that as world class) .

My very first point made it clear that don't care how people classify, quantify or define what constitutes a top player. Some say world class, some say top class, some say something entirely different. I really don't care whether our definitions of a subjective term are totally aligned. That is splitting hairs to the point where it almost isn't worth debating with you.

I really don't care what word or phrase you would use to describe Salah, Firmino and Mane, or whether you think a word i didn't even use is the wrong word. My point is that they are a certain 'level' of player (whatever you want to call that 'level' is your prerogative) and that i personally judge a team by how many players they have that are of that 'level'.

Some people judge a team by the quality of their best player, some believe a team is only as strong as the weakest link, some judge a team by the quality of the options on the bench. They are all fair arguments. I've always been a believer that you need a spine of top players, and as long as you have that, you will win games and trophies. We don't have a very well balanced spine which is why we don't win trophies. As i say, hopefully Van Dijk and Keita are the players to change that.

9.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 14:24:20
Depends on what your interpretation of world class is? I would say if you have the ability to walk into any squad in the world then you're WC. Salah, Firmino, Mane and VVD would walk into any squad worldwide.

10.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 14:13:12
MK’s posts are getting worse.

11.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 15:07:14
Exactly Red Reaper. Nice to see someone capable of interpreting another persons point without it having to be spelt out to them 😂 the internet needs more like you.

Same to you SGred. That is exactly what i meant. The fact that Spurs, United and Chelsea all have a top keeper shows how important it is. Ederson and Cech are both good keepers, but I'm not sure they are in that top class of player. Cech was once upon a time, and Ederson certainly could be though. Our 'game changers', as you defined it, are all attackers/ forwards. We need more balance to win the title. I still think we can beat anyone on our day though so we have a shot at the cup competitions, and i still think we can finish 2nd because although Chelsea have more top quality players than us, they're missing a player who scored goals. Hazard and Morata have 18 league goals combined. That's only one more than Salah has to himself!

I think people are picking apart Mr Dennis's argument and twisting words he said immediately after a defeat (when everyone isn't explaining things exactly how they mean them) whilst he clearly isn't around to defend himself. His point was that our rivals have stronger starting XI's. Whilst that is only in his opinion, it is hardly a wild suggestion that deserves to be belittled. It's a perfectly fair argument. Our midfield and defence is not as good as our rivals. Luckily, our attack is so good its enough to cover that up most weeks.

12.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 15:39:28
Well ok then applying that logic I’d argue the other top teams have more of those players than Liverpool .
And Red Reaper, those three players would not walk into Man City, Man United, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus and possibly even Tottenham or Bayern Munich first team, you said Squad . which is already saying more than you prob realise . So congrats on having just three players that might go into squad numbers in other teams .

13.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 15:08:41
@Lastsanemanalive

Definitely world class players as it stands, surely the term "world class" means something along the lines of "Up there with the best players in the world" or "Would get into any team".

Can you honestly tell me that none of the elite teams would want those 3 players? Ill give you PSG as they have Mbappe, Neymar and Cavani and maybe Real with Ronaldo, Benzema and Bale but those 3 won't be at the top much longer. Salah Mane and Firmino are 25,25 and 26 respectively.

14.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 16:00:00
Lmanalive, Lallana is a good player so is Can and Hendo. The aforementioned super 3 are top class players and would absolutely walk into any of the top six prem starting 11, Barcelona and Madrid, Munich, Juve etc. As would VVD. This really isn't difficult to grasp.

15.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 12:38:42
Good most mate.

16.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 16:16:28
Red reaper it is impossible to grasp the logic that those three players would walk into any top teams first 11. If that was the case just like Coutinho, they would be in one of those top teams .
11 places in a team . Liverpool have 3 of those places as the best in the world yeah?
Walk into ANY first 11.
I think I’m done entertaining this biased ludicrous Logic .

{Ed001's Note - try showing logic yourself. Just because they could walk into the top teams first 11 does not mean they would be there. Basically by your 'logic', anyone who doesn't play for a top team clearly isn't good enough. So N'Golo Kante obviously only actually became any good when he signed for Chelsea. And Coutinho was not good enough to walk into their first 11 until he signed for them. I wish you were done because you are embarrassing yourself.}

17.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 16:04:49
Would u have any of the Utd defenders ahead of ours? I wouldn’t. De Gea all day long. He, Matic and negative tactics at times are the reasons why they are defensively sound. I definitely think we are on the right road. VVD has only played 2 games but in both those games he has shown how good he can be. Our goalkeeper will be resolved in the summer hopefully.

Midfield is the key area both defensively and attacking wise against teams that sit in. Keita will help with his driving runs but we need Another who can pull the strings and dictate play whilst being able to put his foot in too. Can, Wini and Ox are very similar and will be tailor made for playing top teams in CL but it’s a squad game and we lack variety in midfield. I have watched a lot of Keita and he looks the business albeit with plenty of room to further inprove.

Personally I believe the other teams are as worried about us as we are them. If we can pick ourselves up and beat Huddersfield and Spurs then all is rosy again. Too much overreaction to 1 defeat in 19 games. No team will win every game and they will all drop unexpected points .

Had a laugh listening to Talksport this am. Just like last year no one going for us to finish top 4. Chelsea are ‘back’ after being a brutal Brighton team and Utd are Certs by signing Sanchez despite the array of attacking options all at Jose’s disposal all season long.

We are well in the mix which is the main thing and I don’t see why a lot on here are so negative.

Come on u red men.

18.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 16:32:25
Well said Noshbag and Reaper.

Smplfc, i just wanted to thank you for caring so much about what i post that you can even remember what I've posted previously.

19.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 16:33:16
Actually Redroon, I would contend that Bailly ant Valencia would walk into our defence. Matic and Pogba are both streets ahead of any of our centre midfield options and we’ll not mention De Gea. The only thing we have better are our attackers, if they have an off day, we’re done for. As witnessed on Monday. I hope we get top four, but since there’s now a blue print on how to deal with us, I can see pretty much every team we are lay trying to adopt that and I don’t think we have the quality or options to counter act that.

20.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 16:40:08
Don't see the issue with MKs post to be honest makes a lot of sense, granted everyone will view players in different lights, I can't say I would agree with the defining of the players MK has picked but I understand the point.

Roll on the summer and let's hope to get a decent keeper and someone to partner NK in midfield.

I would be happy with those two positons being addressed and retaining our core 11-15 current players.

21.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 16:52:52
Ed001 you’re twisting what I said to fit into your response .
Firstly thanks for confirming you yourself do not consider Liverpool a ‘top team ‘
Kante and Coutinho are better players than the ones in question.
It is my opinion that those three wouldn’t walk into any of the top teams . Because if they did in each team you’d have to drop players much better than said 3 .
Messi, Sánchez, Ronaldo, Hazard, Messi, de Bruyne, dybala etc.
What was said by red reaper is all 3 would secure first 11 places which would mean due to the positions they play all the players I mentioned would lose their spot . that wouldn’t happen.

{Ed001's Note - I was going by your criteria and I twisted nothing, that was what you said. Who would Chelsea have to drop to fit Salah or Mane in? No one. Dybala is in and out of the Juve team already, so clearly you do not know what you even talking about with regards to them. By the way, this is the Juve that have been so desperate to sign a midfielder that Liverpool do not think is good enough and you are using them as a yard stick! It is pointless discussing this as you clearly have no idea what you are even trying to say either. De Bruyne does not even play in the same position as any of them! Are you just taking the mick now?}

22.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 17:10:28
Ed 001 . All 3 would walk into ANY top teams first 11.
That what was said .
Not one or two but alll three . They wouldn’t .
That is my opinion, I’m sure there is plenty of football fans that would agree with me . I’m sure there is plenty of Liverpool fans that would not .

{Ed001's Note - does it say all 3 at once? Perhaps reading comprehension is not your strong point either.}

23.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 17:33:14
Last man standing using Real Madrid as an example and they want to sign Salah, he's off his rocker. Ronaldo is 33 and not what he once was. Hazard and Sanchez aren't scoring at the rate of Salah so what's the measuring stick for who's better? I assume you are a united supporter so I'm not sure why I'm trying to reason with you because it won't work.

24.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 18:12:30
I think he's having you on Ed1, or I'd like to think so at least lol.

25.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 18:21:49
Thanks Ed1. That right made me chuckle on my way home reading all that.

{Ed001's Note - glad you enjoyed.}

26.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 18:53:11
It’s not hard to remember MK when you’re the second post on almost every thread ;)

I don’t know how you fit the time in with all the European football you watch too.

Happy birthday in advance for Friday!

27.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 18:56:09
Mr Dennis,

I’m talking about our defence, Valencia is not a right back and constantly gets caught by stronger teams. Bailly is unproven as yet . De Gea is a no brainer and I agree about their centre mid being stronger than ours. Our defence player for player is every bit as good if not better. Wouldn’t either of the 2 u names nor small if, Jones, shaw, Lindelof, young anywhere near a Liverpool team.

28.) 24 Jan 2018
24 Jan 2018 20:53:55
Redroon- I would have Valencia over Gomez or TAA, Bailly over Matip, Jones over Lovren, Smalling over Klaven, Young over Moreno and Shaw over Robertson and the worst thing about that is I don’t rate Utds defence, so that tells you what I think of ours.

29.) 25 Jan 2018
25 Jan 2018 11:26:54
Have to agree to Disagree. Ashley Young! R u for real? Whilst some of those match ups are close it just shows that indivually our defenders aren’t a huge issue it is the men behind them both with terrible shots to saves ratios and the lack of a consistent performer in front of them. Those are the 2 priority issues .

Also Jones and Smalling are terrible .