28 Feb 2018 20:04:21
Alonso better than Gerrard - is that a joke? Firstly they are different types of players but I bet if you asked the top 10 managers in the world when both players were in their prime that most would have chosen Gerrard as he was a better all round player.

1.) 28 Feb 2018
28 Feb 2018 20:36:23
Without doubt 1jj.

Who was the better tackler - gerrard

Better dribbler - gerrard

Better at tracking back - gerrard

Better at making surging runs into opposition half and box - gerrard

Who was stronger - gerrard

Who was the quicker - gerrard

Who was the best long passer - not much in it but I'll say alonso in fairness although I would have said Gerrard but i don't want to be called bias

The other asset I will give to alonso is football intelligence although I reckon many would say Gerrard.

So alonso has one of two assets over Gerrard and even they are very very close but Gerrard sweeps the board in all other attributes.

It is easy to say alonso is better because he has often, if not always (I hate to bad mouth lfc) been surrounded by better players. That is at both international and club level. But individually Gerrard is better. Alonso'smooth style (which I loved) is so easy on the eye but don't forget the impact a Gerrard in his prime had on our beautiful game. Even Chelsea fans would agree! Lol.

{Ed025's Note - and who was the most miserable sod...gerrard.. :)

2.) 28 Feb 2018
28 Feb 2018 20:46:28
Maybe the players surrounding Alonso have been so good, because his ability to read the game and his intelligence both on and off the ball makes the game easier for players around him.

Personally, I think an argument could be made for both, depending what you are wanting from a player as they played different roles.

3.) 28 Feb 2018
28 Feb 2018 21:01:41
A good point smplfc. And you're right, alonso controlled the tempo of games very well, like all great CMs he made the game easier for those around him but they did not really have different roles. They were both central midfielders. Different I know. The old classic type central midfielders. I'm not knocking alonso, he was one of my favourites when he was at Liverpool, I loved him but objectively Gerrard was the better central midfielder. Who could also, BTW, control the game and make it easier for the players around him.

Alonso's ability to control the game is not why he is surrounded by better players. It is because he played for real Madrid and Spain. Gerrard played for Liverpool and England. There was a time Madrid wanted Gerrard and he could have joined pretty much any team around. He had no choice but to play for England.

Being subjective j would argue that Liverpool have always been miles better than real Madrid and England better than Spain. But objectively its the other way round eh.

4.) 28 Feb 2018
28 Feb 2018 21:05:35
Alonso was the lynchpin of the greatest national team I've ever seen. Maybe the 60's Brazil, the late 80's Argentina, the late 90's France, or the early 00's Brazil teams were as good, but that Spain side was on a level no other team has got to in terms of controlling a game. Pele's Brazil simply outscored teams, Maradonna's Argentina had the magician himself who always found a way to win, Zidane's France bullied teams, and Ronaldinho's Brazil were the most exciting team ever. However Alonso's Spain just played with you and didn't give you a sniff because they were too good. They were so good it was nearly boring because you just knew nobody could touch them. Alonso was at the heart of it. He was the first name on the team sheet alongside Iniesta and Xavi. It takes a special player to stand out with those two either side

For me, Alonso is up their with Pele, Maradonna, Ronaldinho and Zidane as the 5 best players of all time. I think you have to be a special player, but you also have to inspire your country to major international glory (in style) to be considered the best ever. Maybe this summer will be Messi's time?

Unfortunately, Alonso didn't hit his peak until his last season at Liverpool and then he left. Gerrard on the other hand, gave us all of his peak years and overall he was definitely better for Liverpool than Alonso. In terms of who was better over their career, it's a non-starter in my opinion. Alonso was the best of his generation for me. He was special. I don't think there will ever be another player who makes the game look that easy. Gerrard was the best in the world at one stage in between Zidane and Alonso but he never did it for his country, and was only a few years. Alonso can't touch Gerrard's Liverpool career because he left too early in his own career to enjoy his peak years here. That's just my views on the debate, not saying any of this is fact.

{Ed025's Note - please dont put alonso in the same bracket as pele, maradonna, ronaldino and zidane MK, it taints your reputation as being an excellent poster mate, i know he was a very good player but you are talking through red tinted glasses there im afraid..

5.) 28 Feb 2018
28 Feb 2018 21:05:39
Gerrard was a one man machine . a Rambo

Alonso was a maestro

Alonso and Iniesta were dream players for football purists.

Gerrard was your go to man like Ian Botham in his heyday but Xabi was pure class both on and off the pitch.

Pleased they both played for us.

Both stand in the shadow of King Kenny.

6.) 28 Feb 2018
28 Feb 2018 21:38:17
Let's talk generally.

Alonso, his full overall career vs Gerrards? let's not go into Alonso's career just at Liverpool but after that too. Overall? Alonso was the better player.

Great debate, this one will always be debatable but again, always Alonso for me.

7.) 28 Feb 2018
28 Feb 2018 21:41:55
Mk come on that is an outrageous statement.

Many would argue Xavi, Iniesta, Scholes were better.
Never mind Pele, Messi, Ronaldo etc.

The argument about winnings things with your country is ok but you can't base it all on that. It means you rate Alonso over King Kenny as our best player.

8.) 28 Feb 2018
28 Feb 2018 21:42:39
The best national side was the Brazilian team that won the World Cup in Mexico.

They played football on another level and in days when tackles were part of the game.

To coin a phrase they were poetry in motion.

On our day we show glimpses of what might be possible and if Klopp keeps building then we could have some magical times ahead at Anfield.

9.) 28 Feb 2018
28 Feb 2018 21:52:49
I would say iniesta was the lynchpin in that unbelievable Spain side. I am 37 and still say the Spain of the noughties is the best team I have ever seen. Alonso was not the only reason they were that good mk. In fact quite often he didn't start. Iniesta and fabregas did. was xavi spannish too? Not to mention the other 15 top class players they had. I mean even torres didn't start often.

Gerrard played in an England team with top class individuals who wouldn't perform together. Why? It was clearly an ego situation, lampard didn't pass to Gerrard and so on. Doesn't mean alonso was better. Was Andy Cole better than Dwight Yorke just coz he played for a decent England team while Dwight finger Ed his arse playing for Trinidad and tobago.

10.) 28 Feb 2018
28 Feb 2018 21:54:29
Alonso made SG a much better play, end of story.

11.) 28 Feb 2018
28 Feb 2018 21:58:55
The one thing that Alonso had that Gerrard didn’t was brains and tactical nous. Gerrard at his peak was a great player, but lacked the brains and discipline which is why his decline was very sharp, whereas Alonso carried on playing at a high level well into his mid thirties with no loss of quality.

12.) 28 Feb 2018
28 Feb 2018 22:00:24
No that proves nothing salah. There are plenty of highly successful players that were no where near Gerrard.

Would you say Micheal Carrick is better than n Gerrard? Of course not. Your argument holds no water.

Forget who won what. Who is the better footballer? Forget injuries and careers
If I had to pick one or the other to come and play at tranmere it would be Gerrard. If you choose alonso your mad and clearly forgotten Gerrard week in week out keeping liverpool within at least a shout of European football when sometimes we had players that would have finished in the bottom half of the table. Put some good players around him and who knows what might have happened! Oh yeah, we win the european Cup.
Who would you say had the bigger impact on that final? Gerrard or alonso? It was stevie g who took that game to ac milan. A team effort of course but who had the bigger impact?

13.) 28 Feb 2018
28 Feb 2018 21:54:13
Who knew their position better? Alonso?

Gerrard couldn't play in the middle. He had zero discipline. So who was the better cm, Alonso. Who was the more gifted, Gerrard.

Simples.

14.) 28 Feb 2018
28 Feb 2018 21:58:27
Wasn't it Mick McCarthy who said, stop Alonso and you stop Liverpool? I loved both of them for what they both brought to the club.

15.) 28 Feb 2018
28 Feb 2018 22:14:32
SS, are you getting commission for backing Gerrard up mate? chill out lol, I guess I'm 'mad' then because I would choose Alonso, just because somebody doesn't agree with you doesn't make them 'mad' but I guess you can't handle people disagreeing with you it seems.

Why are you bringing Michael Carrick into it? this debate has nothing to do with him lol

'Forget who won what. Who is the better footballer? '

Alonso.

16.) 28 Feb 2018
28 Feb 2018 22:16:21
To say Gerrard lacked tactical nouse is a ridiculous statement. Alonso played at the same into his 30s coz his game was passing. He did it brilliantly as did Gerrard but Gerrard also offered a lot more. Power pace technique and passion. He could have been in that madrid side you are all purring over but he chose to stay with us. If alonso and Gerrard levels are as similar as some are saying I think the fact he stayed gives him the benefit of the doubt when choosing the best. I don't happen to think it is that close, I think Gerrard was better by quite a long way.

BTW, that Madrid side were pretty shocking for a while, for the players they had and were miles behind barca. And yes, that was probably alonso'prime.

The defence rests (trying to read "red dragon")

17.) 28 Feb 2018
28 Feb 2018 22:21:27
Alonso all day long, most complete midfielder I've ever seen.

Many could say there's a better goal scorer, tackler, passer but all together I think he's up there.

And his Mrs, whow.

18.) 28 Feb 2018
28 Feb 2018 22:31:47
It's hardly red tinted to say that Alonso became the best player in the world after he left Liverpool. Alonso had a gift in that he made everyone around him play better, he controlled football games, and he did it without breaking into a sweat.

He was never dropped for Fabregas, Fabregas played a false 9 after Torres decline and rarely made it into the starting line-up prior to that. Alonso made 114 international appearances and was actually second top scorer at one stage of the Del Bosque era with 16 goals. He was the penalty taker to be fair, but one of the key players in the whole team nonetheless. The playmaker of a possession based team is the most vital player, and Iniesta was often used on the left wing because Alonso could be trusted to run the game single handedly.

I think people are seriously downplaying his importance to that Spain side. Though i could definitely see an argument for Iniesta being the main man in the team in which case, you may say that Iniesta is among the top 5 players of all time. People wouldn't dispute that despite him staying in his comfirt zone at club level, whilst Alonso went and won major honours in two other countries as well as with Madrid in Spain.

Maybe I'm slightly biased towards Alonso, but don't pretend like he was out of place in the team when he was Del Bosque's go to man and made over 100 appearances for a Spain team which had Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, Silva and Mata to choose from. You have to be special to be first choice when that is the competition, and you have to be special to run the midfield in Liverpool, Madrid and then Bayern. That is a serious CV. I don't think it is outrageous at all to suggest that a player as decorated as Alonso at club level (in 3 countries) and international level is one of the best of all time. I just wish he'd spent his best years at Anfield. Each to their own though. Fair play if you think Iniesta was the better of the two though. I wouldn't ridicule that opinion at all.

19.) 28 Feb 2018
28 Feb 2018 22:33:50
‘For me, Alonso is up their with Pele, Maradonna, Ronaldinho and Zidane as the 5 best players of all time. ’
That statement almost made me start banging my head against a wall. I love Alonso, he was a great player but to say that is ridiculous.

20.) 28 Feb 2018
28 Feb 2018 22:54:39
I brought up Micheal Carrick coz he has been more successful than Gerrard. In fact he is probably more decorated than alonso too but would you say he was the better player? No he isn't. It was you that claimed alonso has won more, I quote "look at his career" and claimed that made him a better player. I simply took your reasoning and applied it to a different player. If you can't understand me using your reasoning in an abstract sense then I'm sorry but don't get personal. Sorry for calling you mad, I don't mean you're insane it is just a turn of phrase meaning I think your wrong, badly. Gerrard is clearly the better player.

Can u remind you, you are on a liverpool fan site, arguing eloquently that a Spaniard was better than our very own stevie g.

There wasn't much in it but Gerrard all round game was better. Again, 11 Gerrard would beat 11 alonsos. Do you agree?

No hard feelings dude.

Also, I hope I didn't sound racist, I'm really not. I LOVED alonso, proper loved him.

21.) 28 Feb 2018
28 Feb 2018 22:59:19
Alonso started every single game in the 2010 world cup win. Alonso, Busquets and Xavi was the midfield 3. Iniesta played on the left wing and Fabregas played as a false 9.

Alonso ran the show as Spain cruised to world cup victory. I'm not asking you to agree with me that he's one of the best of all time, but don't make up that he was a sub. He was used off the bench more in the '08 Euro's before he was established at Madrid, because the Spanish national side was seemingly picked based on who played in the national league ( i can't think why else Casillas played ahead of Reina and Xavi played ahead of Silva) .

However, in the '10 and '12 tournaments Alonso was the man Del Bosque built the team around and they were unplayable. He started to get subbed more in the '14 world cup and they took him off after about an hour at 2-1 down vs Holland but still in the game, and then fell to pieces and lost 5-1 conceding 3 goals in the final third of the game. As soon as they tried to phase out Alonso to appease the Barcelona fans, the Spanish dynasty imploded and he retired. Serves them right.

I remember this all very well because the Barcelona fans were outraged by Alonso being good enough to force Iniesta out wide. Alonso was even captain a few times and a lot of Barcelona fans wanted the national team to play Iniesta, Xavi and Busquets in midfield, so they would have played just like Barcelona (Forgetting that Spain didn't have Messi to run through 5 players, and therefore needed Alonso's unrivalled vision in midfield) . It was a huge debate at the time. VDB was well and truly vindicated though, particularly in the 2010 world cup in my opinion.

22.) 28 Feb 2018
28 Feb 2018 23:35:13
Alonso on the level of Maradona and Pele 😂😂.

23.) 01 Mar 2018
28 Feb 2018 23:56:28
Alonso was a match controller, Gerrard was a match winner. You choose which attribute you wish revere the most but for me the match winner is the kind player you want to be as a kid and the kind player that made you fall in love with football. Gerrard every day of the week for me!

24.) 01 Mar 2018
01 Mar 2018 00:00:35
SS for the second time today you've quoted things I have never even said? what are you talking about mate?

Earlier you said and quoted me saying Gerrard was only 'good' which i never said?

Now your saying I said (you quoted me) 'look at his career' (alonsos) when I didn't? your trying to twist words.

I never got personal, how did I? I'm stating my opinion and you can't seem to handle that lol whatever anyway mate, we have different opinions does that really matter? it doesn't to me, you think Gerrard was better which is fair enough, that's your opinion and I respect that, what I don't respect is you quoting me for things I never said in the first place. Take a step back and think/ re read before typing.

25.) 01 Mar 2018
01 Mar 2018 00:19:33
Alonso for me, pure class on and off the pitch.

26.) 01 Mar 2018
01 Mar 2018 00:22:44
Lots of people saying Alonso was the complete midfielder and I couldn’t disagree more. Alonso was one of, if not the best at what he did during his time. Control tempo, play blinding passes, bring others into play and position himself intelligently in defence. This does not put him in the bracket of complete midfielder for me. Gerrard could do all the above, maybe not to the same level but still to a world class standard, but also had the ability to score every type of goal going, drive foward and get back quickly with a level of pace that Alonso simply didn’t have. Alonso was fantastic but Gerrard all day for me as the more talented, better, and overall more important player.

27.) 01 Mar 2018
01 Mar 2018 00:39:35
Yeah I also said no hard feelings. I know I mis quoted you. Sorry if I got the gist wrong. But you did say look at alonso career, he is the better player, its up there, we can all see it. And yes, you said "I loved Gerrard but he is no alonso" whereas I quoted you saying "he is good but he is no alonso" both kind of suggest he is nowhere near xabi alonso when in fact it is a pretty close call. I think Gerrard shades it, quite easily imo but others think alonso was better. That is your opinion. The debates are whatg make football great. No need to get knarky salah, I apologised for calling you mad, maybe I was wrong to ;)

28.) 01 Mar 2018
01 Mar 2018 03:10:25
Gerrard was individually better, was certainly better played further forward (and had arguably his best spell as a player acting almost as a second striker with Torres) and when you assess the traits of each Gerrard would certainly come out on top. Alonso had a few key points in his game that made him a better midfielder though: intelligence, discipline, positioning - these are key and the reason why Alonso was so good.

As for MK's statement about him being up there with Pele and Maradona? Simply another gross exaggeration - a common theme when MK expresses his opinions.

{Ed0333's Note - That was one bold statement by MKS, I’m still digesting that one but I respect his opinion and it’s his prerogative to voice it. If you want my humble opinion I think Alonso was a better player than Gerrard. Xabi Alonso did so much that was unappreciated on the pitch he totally made the players around him excel. It’s no coincidence he won the honors he did when he left Liverpool. To say he was in a class with Pele, Maradona? Not for me the only three players you can say that about are Messi, Puskas & Ronaldo. Then theres the bracket below which includes the likes of Zidane, Baggio, Ronaldhino, Ronaldo (Brazilian one), Ronaldinho, Van Basten, Dalglish, Cruyff, Rush, Souness, Best, Maldini, Zanetti, Zico, Zoff, Iniesta, Xavi, Scholes, Alonso and many others I’ve forgotten. But my point is very few players past and present can lay claim to that top echelon of footballers. But again the beauty is it’s all subjective, it’s all about opinions and who the F**K really knows!

29.) 01 Mar 2018
01 Mar 2018 03:15:55
Yeah alright SS, I wasn't getting knarky mate try re reading the posts and you'll see, anybody with a brain can see you got over the top about a simple debate. That is all.

But it's all good mate, I realise your not the kind of person to have a debate with, you can't handle people disagreeing with you which is unfortunate because a minority of the time you have good points.

You carried on what should of been a decent debate across two threads and made out like you was the only one who was right, why? because you say so? You really should learn other people have opinions, whether you agree or not, this is a website with many people sharing many different views, learn to respect it.

{Ed0333's Note - will you have a word with my wife Salah because you’ve just explained her to a tee.

30.) 01 Mar 2018
01 Mar 2018 04:17:24
Gerrard was great and if he had applied himself then could have been mentioned in the same breath as Pele and Maradona etc. However let's not kids ourselves that he was a good defender. Yes he had a good tackle but he got too caught up in the game (a side effect of his passion probably) and so wasnt great at reading defensive moves - which would account for why he was often doing one of those slide tackles he was famous for. He also lacked the patience to hang back and wanted to be driving forward. Alonso was much better in this area.
Personally Im glad we had both, they complemented each other very well. Alonso because he made the game tick over (one of the best game controllers ever), Gerrard because he was a game changer.

31.) 01 Mar 2018
01 Mar 2018 05:01:39
How much more could Gerrard have applied himself? He virtually carried the team for half of his career!

32.) 01 Mar 2018
01 Mar 2018 07:01:37
All great players to be fair Ed333. Alonso was the best of my generation though, so i find it completely realistic to say he was as good as the best of other generations.

I don't know why i bother having an opinion. Alonso would have gotten into and improved any team in the history of the game in my opinion. Can anyone honestly say he wouldn't? Hence my opinion.

{Ed025's Note - yes MK i can, he was a very good player but when its one of your own a certain bias comes into play, mikel arteta was a great player for everton but i would fall short of calling him one of the greatest ever to have lived as im a realist, its all about opinions in the end mate and its no use getting a titty lip when other fans dont agree with your views..

33.) 01 Mar 2018
01 Mar 2018 07:02:09
Nope you don’t definitely don’t let your heart rule your head with your analysis sometimes or use make ridiculous statements that are massive exaggerations to drive home your point 😂

Come off it Adam, he was a special player but nowhere near that bracket. This is why you get hammered with some of your posts. If you make outrageous statements like that, people will call bullsh@t when they see it.

I really wanted to resist posting But with a statement like that, I just couldn’t. Sorry buddy.

34.) 01 Mar 2018
01 Mar 2018 04:37:54
Fair play Ed I respect that opinion and, in terms of ranking players on all time lists, would have a very similar idea to the ones you have listed. I'm very much on the fence when it comes to Alonso vs Gerrard - I'll maintain that Gerrard as a CAM/ SS was immense and definitely a better player than Xabi in that position but, as a central (or deep lying) midfielder Alonso probably shades it. I'd have either in our team now that's for sure.

{Ed0333's Note - can you imagine this midfield with Alonso or Gerrard in their prime in it Seano? It would probably be good enough to win the champions league and pip city to the title.

35.) 01 Mar 2018
01 Mar 2018 08:30:32
2 great players, with very different skillset. I don't know why people get angry at other peoples opinion when we are trying too compare 2 people you simply cannot compare. Alonso had extreme qualitys were gerrard had his flaws, while Gerrard was massive at the things Alonso could habe been better at. Alonsos head, on Gerrards body, and you would probably habe the best player of all time. Alonso also was a genuine nice guy, who was likes by everyone. If i had to say one was better than the other, i would probably say Alonso.

{Ed0333's Note - that’s just Stoupid. You see what I did there???

36.) 01 Mar 2018
01 Mar 2018 08:41:07
I would agree with that ed333, that and good goalkeeper.

37.) 01 Mar 2018
01 Mar 2018 09:11:59
Oooh, that one burned.

38.) 01 Mar 2018
01 Mar 2018 08:51:24
With all due respect to Arteta Ed025, he couldn't even get a call up to the national team Alonso was the main player in! So he wasn't even in the same league as Alonso.

I'm really not sure how it is letting my heart rule my head to say that during his time with Real Madrid and Bayern Munich, Alonso was the best player in the world. I'm not a Real Madrid fan, or a Bayern fan 😂

I think fans just have a penchant to glorify the past and put down the players in more recent times. Zidane had a very similar career to Alonso. He won major titles in two different countries, was the key midfield general for Real Madrid, the biggest club team of all time, and won major international honours with his country. Nobody would even question me if i said Zidane was the greatest of all time. People might disagree, but they wouldn't call it ridiculous or say i was exagerrating. Because they've had ample time to reflect on how good Zidane was and there's been sufficient time for people to miss seeing him play.

The only thing ridiculous here is the reaction to my perfectly legitimate opinion. This is not some journeyman player. 4 league titles with 2 different clubs, 2 Champions leagues with 2 different clubs, 8 other trophies with 3 different clubs, a world cup, and two European Championships. One time Spanish footballer of the year, twice in the FIFA world XI, one time best La Liga Midfielder, one time Bundesliga team of the season, one time Champions league team of the tournament, named in Euro '12 team of the tournament.

Just actually look at what he achieved at both club, international and individual level. He was every bit world class and maybe it will be 10 years before people truly appreciate how awesome he was in hindsight. Nobody even rates the players of their generation. The only thing red tinted on this thread is the people saying Gerrard was a better player. For Liverpool yes i agree, but what Alonso did after he left eclipsed Gerrard by a country mile. You're in denial if you think otherwise. Gerrard has zero league titles and not even an international runners up medal. His achievements pale in comparison.

For me, you cannot be considered the best of all time unless you won major honours for club and country. Messi hasn't for Argentina, and Ronaldo hasn't really either because he missed nearly every minute of the final on the sideline and still made it all about himself afterwards.

Nobody has actually given any reasons to disprove Alonso belongs in that bracket. They've just taken the mick out of my opinion, as usual. Is it because he was a more defensive player and we only love players who score goals? Or just because of the mentality which is only seen in football where you can't be the best because you didn't play in the "good old days"? I really don't know why i bother sharing my original opinions anymore. Actually name me one team Alonso wouldn't have played in; club or international. So you need to think of a team that had a better pool of midfield talent than Spain between 2008-2014. I'll wait.

{Ed025's Note - in the end its all about opinions MK, mine happens to be that alonso struggles to get in an all time liverpool team but as i say thats just my view, but i have to say that statements like "i really dont know why i bother sharing my original opinions anymore" is very dismissive of your fellow posters and their opinions, you are one of the most creative and respected posters on these pages but to think that its only your view that matters comes across as disrespectful and aloof mate, im sure you dont mean it to come across like that as you seem like a nice guy, i just dont want you to compromise your credibility as a lot on here (me included) look forward to your contributions, i hope you take this in the spirit it is meant as advice to all posters to show respect for other peoples opinions...cheers..

39.) 01 Mar 2018
01 Mar 2018 09:40:03
Alonso was undoubtedly a world class player but to place him in the top 5 of his time is way over the top. And you will always have an impossible time deciding who was better between Gerrard and Alonso because they had vastly different attributes, and served their teams differently and in different roles.

Even their teams, managers and own fans expected different things from each, so how can you definitively rate one above the other? All depends on the criteria you're using to judge (for me, David Silva was the player that made that magical Spain midfield tick) . Far easier to rate two players playing the same position because the criteria is more limited.

MKS, I'm reading your posts since many years now (from the EMS days) and I see big changes in your posts recently. You have a thinner skin to disagreement from others on here. I appreciate your posts (as do many others here, so don't get me wrong), but I thought I would just point that out to you.

40.) 01 Mar 2018
01 Mar 2018 10:35:10
Well said ed. mk, you are a legend on the site. Don't be afraid of getting it wrong. Sometimes, "that's a fair point, I hadn't seen it that way" goes a lot further than a 500 word counter argument saying exactly what you said and why you said exactly what you said. (Only sometimes though- cos sometimes you hit back with an excellent counter. )

41.) 01 Mar 2018
01 Mar 2018 10:52:24
I'm not saying that because people disagree Ed. I'm saying that because rather than disagree and debate with me, people just slag me off, making attacks on me as a poster and person, instead of attacking my argument. I can't name a single midfielder in Liverpool's history who at their peak, was better than Alonso at his peak; very slim chance of Souness, but he never won anything with his country, and Scotland were very good back then! I fully appreciate Alonso was not at his peak whilst at Liverpool. Therefore if i was picking an all time Liverpool XI, Alonso wouldn't be in it. I'd pick Souness and Callaghan as my midfield two, because they achieved more at Liverpool, not because they were better players in their prime. Maybe they were and the historic footage doesn't do them justice but i never saw them live and therefore i can only say it as i see it and not let myself be influenced by the opinions of the older generation who are potentially looking back with bias themselves?

My favourite player to have played for Liverpool in the Premier League era was still Torres up until this season where Firmino has just about taken his place. Torres was involved in some of Spain's huge tournament wins so if i wanted to make this about personal bias, i would've said Torres, not Alonso. Torres actually did spend his peak years at Liverpool! I had his poster on my wall and read his book every night on repeat. He was my hero and he won everything with Spain too. So I'm deeply offended that people accuse me of bias as if I'm the only one who does it, when I'm actually being as unbiased as anyone else is by not saying Torres!

In 10-20 years time there will be a brilliant deep lying playmaker and somebody will say "He is the best since Alonso" and then people of my generation will say "no way, Alonso played in a tougher generation! It was a golden era where quality was higher and he played against players like Zidane, Ronaldinho, Messi and Ronaldo. They didn't even have VAR back then to protect them bla bla bla". That is how football is. Most people believe that the players they grew up with were better. Well I grew up with Alonso so if i want to say he was better than players who others grew up with, then I'd say I'm well entitled to believe that without being told I'm being ridiculous. Surely?

The only other player of this era who is possibly better than Alonso in my opinion, is Ronaldo. Messi hasn't won anything with Argentina and never left his Barcelona comfort zone (yet; he still has time to be fair) and Iniesta never dared to leave his comfort zone in Barcelona either despite his international success. Ronaldo sort of won something with Portugal, and proved himself in at least 2 different countries. He still never won a world cup though, and probably never will. That is the No.1 criteria for me of you want to be ranked alongside Pele, Maradona, Ronaldinho and Zidane. Alonso did just that. Cruyff didn't, Dalglish didn't, Messi didn't, and Puskas didn't. So whilst they are legends of the game, stellar individuals, and probably all get into all time XI of Ajax, Liverpool, Barcelona and Real Madrid respectively, i can't have them down as one of the greatest overall of all time. It's all subjective though so i fully understand people will disagree. I just wish people would understand when i don't agree with them. For me, you can't be the best if you don't win the biggest trophy in the game.

{Ed025's Note - i like alonso MK i really do but i think you are letting your heart rule your head on this one, if you asked chelsea fans then they would have lampard ahead of him and united fans would argue that he is not in the same bracket as cantona, i dont belive that winning a world cup defines a player as the likes of dalglish and bergkamp dispel that for me, in polls that have been conducted about the best overseas players that have graced this country alonso will hardly ever get a mention, the top 3 will always be henry, bergkamp and zola so your view on him would tend to be a local rather than countywide view mate, but your entitled to your opinion..

42.) 01 Mar 2018
01 Mar 2018 12:29:16
Alonso was part of the Sociedad, Liverpool and Madrid teams who set their clubs record points tally. He also broke a Bundesliga record when he completed 196 passes in a single game. He is the only outfield player of the modern era to score two consecutive goals from inside his own half.

The man was a genius. He did things other people dream about, and saw things other people couldn't. I'll agree to disagree, but that was an insanely dominant Spain team, and he was the heart beat. It takes a damn good player to push Iniesta out to the left wing!

I'm not saying others are wrong. You can't really be wrong with an opinion on something subjective, because of it's very nature. I fully appreciate that what I'm saying is a very bold statement that will raise eyebrows, but i say things how i see them. I won't downplay my opinion to try and get a few extra thumbs up.

I'd rather say what i truly think and get one thumb up, than go with the flow to get 10! I don't really need credibility. This isn't my job, I'm just a football fan on an online forum. Thank you for the civil debate though Ed025, and you did make some excellent points. Individually in terms of talent, Bergkamp and Zola probably were right up there to be fair and it isn't necessarily their fault they didn't win as much. So that is a solid counter argument.

43.) 01 Mar 2018
01 Mar 2018 14:11:50
Lol I have a funny feeling some people just dislike your posts for the sake of it sis. 'Oh it's MK, *dislike*' it's not a function I'm particularly fond of lol

Good debate between you and Ed25, made a good read guys that's how a debate SHOULD be.

{Ed025's Note - its ok to disagree salah in fact its healthy, its all about respect for me mate..

44.) 01 Mar 2018
01 Mar 2018 15:52:11
Sorry but xavi alonso in the same bracket as Kenny Dalglish? That is patently ridiculous. Not on his best day was alonso even close to Kenny. He wasn't even close to Gerrard. Those who think he was were watching a different game to the one I watched.

45.) 01 Mar 2018
01 Mar 2018 17:35:10
You cannot use what a player won as a sole argument. Xabi Alonso was a great player but he was born in an era when Spain had their greatest ever generation. Xavi was the heartbeat of that Spain team not Alonso.

Steven Gerrard is English, he didn't play with the likes of Xavi, Villa or Puyol. Stephane Guivarc'h started a World Cup final for France and has a winners medal, that doesn't make him a better striker than Best, Dalglish or Shearer.

Steven Gerrard also played for his boyhood club his entire career, Alonso left his and played for some of the greatest clubs in Europe, Gerrard could have easily played for Chelsea, United or Madrid and won multiple league titles and European cups. I watched both Gerrard and Alonso hundreds of times, Gerrard was the better player, no amount of stats will change what I saw with my own eyes. I wonder if you would regard Alonso so highly if he had played for Real Sociedad his entire career.

46.) 02 Mar 2018
02 Mar 2018 08:38:21
Utterly amazed this is a serious debate. Outside of Liverpool fans nobody neutral would even have Alonso close to Gerrard. Gerrard in his prime was the best player in the world imo. Alonso warmed Spain's bench behind Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta by the way MK when all fit. Very good player he was though.