28 Mar 2018 14:10:54
i see your fans are coming up to see our standing section at celtic, maybe the kop will return to a standing section, there are rail seats that pull down for european ties.

1.) 28 Mar 2018
28 Mar 2018 14:31:01
I highly doubt there will ever be standing in Anfield. It would be nothing short of an insult to the memories those who had to pay with their lives to invoke the change in the first place.

2.) 28 Mar 2018
28 Mar 2018 15:23:53
Yes MK because modern safe standing is exactly the same as terraces of old, identical.

3.) 28 Mar 2018
28 Mar 2018 15:45:46
That is not my point Conakry, and you know it isn't.

96 Liverpool fans died because standing can never be made as safe as seating. Don't you think it is a little concerning that they have to call it "safe standing"? Would you eat at a restaurant called "not poisonous food"? The very fact it has to be sold as "safe" should make it abundantly clear that it isn't actually safe.

It is harder to police, more people all jumping up and down increases the risk of structural collapse, it is harder to manage, harder to maintain, it increases the risk of falling, it increases the risk of crushing, and it is totally non-inclusive. You want to rip out huge sections of seats making it harder for kids, women, the elderly or disabled people to get a seat?

Why? You can sing from a seat. The atmosphere isn't bad because we're sat down, it's bad because we're silent. The only argument for standing is you can pack more people into a smaller space. Maybe that marginally improves the noise and makes the club slightly more money on tickets, but it is patently obvious that the more people you pack onto the stand the greater the risk of an accident.

I will be extremely disappointed in Liverpool if they ever put in standing. If they do, they might as well go the full hog and install a urinal underneath the Hillsborough memorial.

4.) 28 Mar 2018
28 Mar 2018 16:22:42
"It increases risk of falling". Individual barricades that stop fans surging forward increase the risk of falling when compared to a one foot piece of plastic in front of you? I respect your opinion, everyone is allowed one, what I don't respect is you pushing your opinion across as fact without giving me any evidence to back your opinions up.
Id love to know MK have you experienced safe standing? Have you been to any European stadiums with it in place or even travelled up to Celtic park? If so how was your experience?
As for your comment on kids elderly people and woman, well that is just embarrassing. Why would only men use safe standing? I know plenty of people young, old people and female that would use it.
My want for safe standing doesn't come from wanting a better atmosphere, it comes from an elderly member of my family being seriously injured at Anfield after being thrown forward over multiple rows in a surge after a goal was scored. I want people to have safety behind them, and in front of them preventing surges. If there was a seated option with barricades that stopped surges id be all for it, but right now that isn't being practised anywhere to my knowledge, whereas safe standing is being practised in multiple places with good results.

5.) 28 Mar 2018
28 Mar 2018 16:26:37
MK do you know anything at all about 'Safe Standing'? I'll admit I don't know much but a quick Google search shows me that 1 standing place takes up about as much room as one seat, so the claim that it is to get more people in the stadium is rubbish. Some people just prefer to stand whilst watching football.

You watch the Liverpool v Palace game on Saturday, do you think that any of the away fans will be sitting during the game? I doubt it, is that any safer?

Is it harder to police? The same amount people will be in the same amount of space. Is there a risk of structural collapse? The stand behind the goal at Borussia Dortmund's stadium is standing and holds close to 25000 people, I don't recall it ever collapsing.

This is obviously a very sensitive issue and one that will need a lot of discussion, but research and consultation needs to be done, mindless statements like yours don't help.

6.) 28 Mar 2018
28 Mar 2018 16:38:23
Correct Smeg Head, the proposed safe standing would be a one for one basis in terms of seats to standing space, it would not be used to cram more supporters into a smaller space. Health and safety is very similar in this country to other countries like Germany, Canada America etc where safe standing is already being carried out. It is 100% a sensitive issue but i'm with you that an open dialogue between supporters without people throwing out accusations and coming to uneducated conclusions is much needed.

7.) 28 Mar 2018
28 Mar 2018 16:50:43
If its a one for one basis what's the benefit? All it does it take the option away from those that want to sit.
Im with mk on this. The atmosphere isn't flat or worse because we have seats now. I don't see the benefits of 'safe' standing.
Thats just my opinion that's all and im open to others views on it.

8.) 28 Mar 2018
28 Mar 2018 17:15:22
I've done plenty of research on this and could back up every point I've made. I am fully aware there is evidence to the contrary. I apologise if my opinion came across as fact as that was not my intention at all. It probably seemed a bit strong because of how much I am against this. I really Don't have time to go into the amount of detail that this subject deserves, on every point but I'll cover a few. As you say, it is very serious and very sensitive.

Standing does fit in more people usually. At least, the examples I've found and seen do. Maybe there are exceptions to that though? Even safe standing, people Don't stand with their seats. They try and find their mates or get a better view which causes confrontation and compaction. Also I'm sorry to hear about your father getting pushed over the seats. That is appalling. My argument would be at least he could fall, rather than getting crushed up against a rail. I do see your point that the low seats can be dangerous too though. I hope he is okay.

My old local team Rushden and Diamonds had a safe standing area and it was anything but safe. Nearly every game there was a fight, and eventually they just closed off the stand and only used the other 3. Low attendances were blamed but it was pretty clear that was an excuse to all the locals, or else they would have closed one of the 3 seated stands. I used the standing area twice and found it uncomfortable and hard to navigate. People also used to fight over the bits behind the goal or closer to the pitch because there were no allocated seats. It was a nightmare and there were less than 1000 people in the stand.

With all due respect to England, German people are generally (not always) far more respectable and have less issues with football hooliganism as a whole. I am English so it hurts me to say That, but frankly it is true.

Whilst the Dortmund stand hasn't collapsed, that does not mean that there is not a greater risk. I'm fully qualified in Engineering Risk Assessment as well as Health and Safety so I'm looking at this from a professional perspective and it is a minefield. There is a greater risk of collapse, even if the risk is still low. There have been seated stands which have collapsed too, so sitting down doesn't eliminate the risk entirely.

It is definitely harder to Police and control though! Surely we can't have forgotten Hillsborough already? That was caused by the Police not having control over a situation. Is that one case study not enough evidence? I couldn't care less what changes they make or if the Police force has improved (doubtful) . It has happened once, and once is enough for me.

On the women, children and elderly point. From my experiences of standing, I never saw a child in my local sides standing section because all the blokes in there were far too rowdy and/ or drunk. I saw a handful of women but they looked totally uncomfortable about the situation. There were no elderly people that i saw though. Vulnerable people don't want to get involved in the hustle and bustle of it. My dad refused to use it because he has a bad back as a result of lengthy military service, and can't stand for too long or risk getting knocked over. Is that fair? That some people have their opportunity to get a ticket reduced? It is not a comfortable environment to be in regardless. I would never take my child into a standing section. Not after what I've seen from a small standing crowd!

Again, sorry if my opinion came across too strong, but I've read too much about Hillsborough to ever be in support of any form of standing. I'd love to go into more detail and I respect that people have different views on this that can also be backed up with evidence, experiences and various case studies; your own fathers experience being a prime example. I just can't ever agree with standing though. I'm sorry. I've seen and read enough to make my mind up. Hillsborough alone is enough for me to be against it. The stories I've heard? I think people have just forgotten what standing was actually like and are looking back with too much nostalgia.

9.) 28 Mar 2018
28 Mar 2018 17:32:01
MK, you clearly don't understand how modern safe standing works, you are basing it on your experience at Rushden and Diamonds. I have just Googled Nene Park, the standing area there is nothing like the standing areas at Celtic Park or the HDI arena, I urge you to take a look at those. Each standing spot also has a seat, the tickets are sold the same as they would be for a regular seat, there is no fighting over places behind the goal, you get the spot you pay for.

10.) 28 Mar 2018
28 Mar 2018 17:46:13
It’s an interesting debate for lots of reasons.

The back tier of the Kop stand at every home game and against the bigger teams, United, City etc the whole of the Kop stands. As Smeg mentioned, our away support always stand.

It’s a tricky one on both sides of the debate, the sensitivity of Hillsborough, ensuring there’s still areas for seating as children can’t always see when the whole kop stands. Then you have Then the side where, as mentioned the whole upper tier ( kop stands ) and the way support.

I sit 22 rows up to the left of the goal as you look from the pitch so sit when it’s the lesser tier games. I stand when I watch the team away.

11.) 28 Mar 2018
28 Mar 2018 18:22:42
Smeg, I promise i will look into it in more detail when I get the chance. In the meantime, I am still against it. On your word, I shall look into the more modern systems in more detail. On a side note, Nene Park was demolished last year. Very sad to see a demolition site whenever I go home to visit my parents.

12.) 28 Mar 2018
28 Mar 2018 18:55:09
It won't come back to anfield. Not for another 50 years at least.

{Ed025's Note - like the league trophy.. :)

13.) 28 Mar 2018
28 Mar 2018 20:28:21
It’s a no from me, I’m usually on my feet all day at work, the game is one of the few places I can sit and chill haha.

14.) 28 Mar 2018
28 Mar 2018 20:35:23
I'm 100% behind MK on this, I was at Hillsborough and outside the tunnel as the crushing was starting and luckily my friends and I manoeuvred ourselves away to the side sections, so I may not know about safe standing (whatever that is) but I know that standing at football caused one of the most horrific days of my life and one I have to live with forever, so don't take this the wrong way but I couldn't give a f##k what way you spin it, standing at football grounds and policing it will never be safe, and I will be vehemently against it and will do everything in my power to protest it.

So don't attack people because they haven't experienced safe standing because you've never experienced people dead in front of you on a football pitch and you've never been scared you'd be injured or worse just trying to enter a football ground, and please god you never will.

15.) 28 Mar 2018
28 Mar 2018 21:19:43
Ba boom ed025. Yeah funny. When are we playing at park head?

16.) 29 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 00:04:10
Everything MK and Waro said in full.
Nothing else to say, the boys have said it all.
YNWA.

17.) 29 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 00:23:47
I'm so sorry you had to see that Waro and I will always back the families and the survivors of Hillsborough. If the people who were there (or were affected) say no to standing, I say no to standing. My personal experiences of standing pales in comparison to yours. You'll never walk alone.

18.) 29 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 04:01:39
If there is a possibility of SAFE standing, why not have it looked at? The tragedy at Hillsborough was related to safety, not standing. If there is a way that supporters can watch a game while standing without any risk then surely its worth looking at?

{Ed001's Note - it was related to standing, to suggest otherwise is simply wrong and you are showing rank ignorance to say so.}

19.) 29 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 07:58:14
I'm assuming you are also against standing at Anfield then Ed001?

{Ed001's Note - having both stood and sat, personally don't see why standing is seen as such a great thing. I was only young when standing was allowed and it was bloody horrible, especially for a short arse like me, I couldn't see the game. I want to see the pitch personally.}

20.) 29 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 09:17:38
I don't completely agree, Ed, but its also a subject with so much sensitivity around it that i won't argue. At the end of the day, safe viewing should be absolutely paramount when going to watch your team play.

{Ed001's Note - disagree all you like but you would be wrong which is why the Taylor Report recommended removing standing sections.}

21.) 29 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 08:37:34
Exactly my main point Ed. Even if i could forget the obvious tainted history, I still can't accept the pack of inclusiveness. You basically make a whole stand a red zone for Children or people who can't stand for too long (Which I suppose includes the elderly, pregnant women, young children and arguably even overweight people) .

22.) 29 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 10:39:10
For once I agree with waro. Worrying.