10 Jul 2018 16:20:02
ED001 . On the subject of legend profiles. Can I request Roberto Baggio. what a player.

Thanks

Red deano
YNWA.

{Ed001's Note - yes mate, but he was already on the list.}

1.) 10 Jul 2018
10 Jul 2018 16:29:57
Thanks for reply mate I was not aware. Is your ever growing list available for veiwing. Im curious who is on it. thanks

Red deano
YNWA.

{Ed001's Note - I did put it on the Man City site, though it has grown a bit since then it will still give you an idea. I am currently researching Jack Charlton as the next one.}

2.) 10 Jul 2018
10 Jul 2018 16:31:37
Apart from John Barnes Baggio was my ultimate player as a kid, Italia 90 and then watching Seria A on channel 4 he was some player.

3.) 10 Jul 2018
10 Jul 2018 16:36:00
Nope please please not Jack Charlton, you’ll give me palpitations. He took the greatest Irish team ever assembled, truly world class and made us play long ball. Could have won euros 88 and World Cup 1990. Dreadful dreadful stuff.

{Ed001's Note - not so sure that is fair. If you look at the players he had, they were not that good. Lots of them people look back at and think they were great, but he was picking them up from the likes of Oxford United (Houghton and Aldridge) and they improved working under him. The team he had was not that good in reality and he achieved far more with Ireland than anyone before or since. The football was dire, but the players were not on the same level as the opponents had at all. There was never anyway the teams he had could have won those trophies no matter who was in charge.}

4.) 10 Jul 2018
10 Jul 2018 16:39:57
Was he in italia 90? I thought he was a little later than that.

5.) 10 Jul 2018
10 Jul 2018 16:40:46
Exactly IR. remember that airing for the first time on then the 'new' channel 4.that AC Milan team then.

Red deano
YNWA.

6.) 10 Jul 2018
10 Jul 2018 16:42:36
Thanks for the reply ED001. Will have a look. I'll check for Jean Pierre Papan and Gabriel Batistuta.

Red deano
YNWA.

{Ed001's Note - I don't think Batigol was in there so I have added him.}

7.) 10 Jul 2018
10 Jul 2018 17:24:45
Guiseppi signori remember him beast of a player.

8.) 10 Jul 2018
10 Jul 2018 18:02:04
Jesus, you're off your head ED. The Ireland team that face England in 88 was full of fantastic footballers Kevin Moran, Chris Hughton, Paul McGrath were regarded as some fo the best defenders of their generation Ray Houghton, Ronnie Whelan, John Aldridge, were essential to probably the finest Liverpool team ever assembled and Frank Stapleton was a United maintstay.

{Ed001's Note - McGrath was magnificent, I agree, but it is funny how no one else managed to get there before Charlton. Amazing how people have to rewrite history. Houghton had one good season with Liverpool and now you are calling him essential! He was just a hard grafter, that was his part at Liverpool and why he fitted in the way Charlton played.

Yes he could have played better football, but there is no guarantee it would have produced better results as there were much better teams from Italy etc they had to face.}

9.) 10 Jul 2018
10 Jul 2018 18:02:07
Oh I have to differ ed1 any team with Staunton, whelan, McGrath, Houghton, Aldridge, cascrino, O’Leary, McCarthy and Bonner were a force to take on any team. You might not rate some of them but they were far better footballers than we’ve had in the past 20 years yet still managed to get to some tournaments. On top of that, he was shocking with some of the lads and the great Liam Brady was chased out of the Irish team because he tried to pass the ball along the ground. Even now, many of the old lads admit they didn’t realize they could have done far more but because we’d never done anything before that, the country thought it was all jack’s genius tactics. (Run at them u til they make a mistake) You are spot on that he had an eye for getting players in, he was fantastic at recruiting and must have had the best scouts in the world but he didn’t have a clue with tactics. He let the lads away with murder. For me the best manager we’ve ever had was mick McCarthy. Found a lot of underperforming players and somehow got us to the World Cup. It was only Saipan incident which really ruined his legacy. I honestly believe England v Ireland 1990 final should have happened.

{Ed001's Note - Cascarino? He was dog turd. He was a worse footballer than he is a pundit and he is an absolute moron of a pundit. McCarthy used almost the exact same tactics. How is he suddenly better? Bizarre.}

10.) 10 Jul 2018
10 Jul 2018 18:35:44
Definitely rewriting history. Charlton over achieved with the players he had available. Most of the players you listed that are (arguably) class are defenders, with all due respect to Aldo and the others they were not world beaters. They were a hard working, organised passionate group and tough to beat!

11.) 10 Jul 2018
10 Jul 2018 18:34:58
Yeah your right, that’s the 12 year old in me ignoring his cruddy club career, cass wasn’t great except at millwall but for Ireland when we lumped up the ball he was effective. I didn’t explain my point about McCarthy, he played a fair amount of long balls admittedly but he didn’t have the players that jack had. We had 2 Keanes, duff and given. Mick also built a solid defence with very average players and we became incredibly hard to beat. Charlton did the same with vastly superior players. Most Irish are of the opinion that we overperformed under jack but I genuinely disagree. Each to their own ed, and while I respect your opinion on everything, just can’t see it any way differently. I do however look forward to the article though and if you convince me I’ll bow my hat to you.

{Ed001's Note - I didn't disagree that he could have played better football, but there is no guarantee that he would have got better results. You played better football before him and got nowhere. That was my point. What he did was bring the team together as a team, rather than a bunch of individuals playing their own way. We will never know if better football would have brought better results, it might just have meant that some of those scratchy 1-0 wins and hard fought draws would have been defeats at the hands of the better teams.}

12.) 10 Jul 2018
10 Jul 2018 18:47:39
Oh Ed. Don’t often disagree with you but you’re. Completely wrong to say McCarthy used to same tactics as Charlton. Have attended Irish Internationals for decades and the contrast in style between the two is huge. Contrast the hoofing style of Euro 88 and Italia 90 campaigns of Charlton to the football that MaCarthys team tried to play in Japan/ Korea qualification and tournament. Ireland V Spain in 2002 definitely springs to mind.

{Ed001's Note - McCarthy admits himself he uses (well used now) long ball tactics. Not sure why you are disagreeing when he himself has said it a number of times.}

13.) 10 Jul 2018
10 Jul 2018 19:08:50
That is a fair point ed but I think he could have achieved similar success with pretty much any half decent group of lads- for what he did he was effective. There was so much talent that he only allowed to get involved Int the game when trying to win the ball back. Once the back pass rule came in and the lads got a little older the cracks began to show. As for tactics- Italy were there for the taking in that quarter final but we just kept lumping it aimlessly. Obviously hindsight is a beautiful thing but I feel if we had a more ambitious manager that allowed the players like Brady and whelan to do there thing, we could have attained more success. One thing I think we can all agree on is that it’s incredibly unlikely Ireland will ever have as balanced a team without any glaring weaknesses. FUnnily enough, I met him once and he was a really nice guy but there was an aura around him that he wasn’t one to take any crap.

{Ed001's Note - he is a lovely guy, his players mostly adore him. I remember when a family friend was bought by him for Sheffield Wednesday and he just said it was like joining a big extended family with Jack. He would make the players take care of each other like they were brothers.

I do agree, he probably could have done the same with worse players. We will never really know, but the team he had were so used to losing, that he had to tighten things up first and give them belief. I personally think the problem was that he had the best players at the start of his reign when he needed to just get them as a team and then the weaker squad when he had them knitted. If it had been the other way round, then he could have begun to be more expansive imo. For me it was just the wrong way round. Though there is no saying Jack would have changed the style later on with better players, if he hadn't have changed to suit those better players, I would think the criticism much more fair. He would have no excuse then.}

14.) 10 Jul 2018
10 Jul 2018 19:15:04
Poor old ed getting it from the Irish tonight. Look at us troublemakers.

{Ed001's Note - it's ok mate, I am used to dealing with Irish, you can probably tell from my surname where my dad's family is from....}

15.) 10 Jul 2018
10 Jul 2018 19:34:25
That’s really cool ed- what part of Ireland? Jaysus don’t say cork or Louth. Nobody wants to be from there. Especially Louth 😜.

{Ed001's Note - do you know what I don't actually know where his dad was from, I will have to ask. He died when I was a baby so I never knew him. Me nan's family was from Dublin, I assume, though she only found out who she actually was recently. She was an orphan after her parents died when she was just a baby and she was brought up by nuns. All she knew was that her dad was a teacher or headmaster, I forget which, of an exclusive private school in Liverpool, but there were no known relatives of him. Then a book was released about a prison and in there was the story of an Irishman who was arrested in the Dublin uprising and imprisoned. He had worked for the post office and the postmaster wrote to the prison governor asking to have him back as he was such a good worker. So he was taken to Liverpool escorted by guards with a one way ticket to Dublin. When they got to Liverpool, he escaped, changed his name and became a teacher. That was her dad, so she finally was able to go over and meet the family she had never known existed.}

16.) 10 Jul 2018
10 Jul 2018 20:07:21
Wow, that’s frigging awesome. No better place to escape to. Sure Liverpool is the most Irish of cities. Have you gotten hold of the book because that would be something to show your daughter with pride. All I can say is my great great grandfather appeared in a little town in Kerry one day with only his suit and a serious amount of money in a bag and no other information. He never spoke of it. We’ve tried to follow the story but nothing ever came of it beyond it being better we don’t push. Supposedly he was a brother of one of the powers whiskey clan and there were issues. It could be total crap. You should do one of those tests to check out your ancestry. You could be a high king ed. Or better yet- some type of whiskey merchant which in Ireland is the modern day equivalent of a high king.

17.) 10 Jul 2018
10 Jul 2018 20:34:37
Love stories like that Ed/ aoe thanks for sharing.

{Ed001's Note - I actually have not seen the book yet. Keep meaning to ask what it is called so I can find a copy. I wouldn't want to look up what I am, knowing my luck I would find debts handed down the generations!}

18.) 10 Jul 2018
10 Jul 2018 20:53:17
Cheers salah. Much appreciated. I reckon all of us have ancestors with some scandal to us. Sometimes it’s nice to look back at those that came before us where we can. That ed story about the book is frigging awesome tale though. And all from trist slagging off Ireland 😜😜😜.

{Ed001's Note - the worrying thing is there are lots of stories like that in the family. I used to think every family was like it when I was a kid, until I was talking about it with a good friend of mine and she soon disabused me of that notion. One day I will get back to writing a book about it. I did start it for me nan but she died before I could get it finished and never really felt like carrying on after that.}

19.) 10 Jul 2018
10 Jul 2018 21:16:18
That is heartbreaking mate but I’m sure when you are ready, you will get back to it- I would imagine she would have wanted you to finish it. If not for her then for yourself and the readers who would most likely enjoy it. It’s not like you haven’t earned the skill doing up so many articles.

{Ed001's Note - it is just finding time now to sit down and start it again. One day I will.}

20.) 11 Jul 2018
11 Jul 2018 08:32:01
If you get the name of the book Ed, let me know mate and I'll see if I can get you a copy (ebook) of it, unless you can get the actual book which is always better of course.

{Ed001's Note - it was a historical reference book, that much I remember, as my uncle read it as part of his job with the Museum of Wales.}

21.) 11 Jul 2018
11 Jul 2018 09:14:56
I'll have a search later on tonight Ed with some keywords see if I can find it for you, fingers crossed because it does sound interesting. If I find it I'll let you know mate.

{Ed001's Note - I think the prison was Tow Law prison, but I could be wrong on that.}