1.) 17 Dec 2018
17 Dec 2018 19:24:54
Thanks Ed!

{Ed001's Note - welcome mate.}

2.) 17 Dec 2018
17 Dec 2018 19:26:35
I compared Man U to Everton near the start of the season and it was clearly disingenuous to Everton.

Man U's death spiral is such that I think Everton will be 10 clear of them come May, unless The Special One becomes The Sacked One in the coming weeks.

3.) 17 Dec 2018
17 Dec 2018 19:32:16
Brilliant as always. Fabinho and Bobby were just amazing. The game was superb to watch! How can you only give Fellaini a 5 when that shot that hit the steward was pin point accuracy and I watched it as many times as Mane's cool finish!

{Ed001's Note - you have a good point there.}

4.) 17 Dec 2018
17 Dec 2018 19:36:08
Cheers ED, always a good read.

{Ed001's Note - cheers dill.}

5.) 17 Dec 2018
17 Dec 2018 19:42:21
Great read, ed. As I watched the game again, I realized that tho happy with the result, I was not surprised. This game looked like the wy Klopp and the team play the so-called dross teams. Just like it was vs Burnley who don't come to play and get a lucky equalizer and then we overpower them and finish them off. Mou's tactics was to go 5 at the back which is the WORST formation you can play against our 4-3-3 in full go. Who does that?

The result of that game would have come down to us and our performance level and ONLY us and our performance levels. Utd played worse than Fulham and Cardiff at Anfield really which a a damning indictment on the Special dinosaur they have as manager.

All in all, Utd were brushed aside like the midtable dross they are so not much more needs to be said there. I do fully agree with you that we have cranked up the pressure and tempo in the past few games, all while being defensively sound and keeping clean sheets, which is the balance we all want and good to know we are getting there now. Should we master this, we could literally be unbeatable.

{Ed001's Note - cheers mate.}

6.) 17 Dec 2018
17 Dec 2018 19:42:38
Lmao that steward.
That’s brilliant haha.
83.5 v 24. Happy days.

7.) 17 Dec 2018
17 Dec 2018 19:46:11
Lukaku nil point- brilliant Ed!

{Ed001's Note - I think I was over generous with his score.}

8.) 17 Dec 2018
17 Dec 2018 19:57:01
Quality as always Ed, I agree with all especially about Clyne, I wouldn't say he had a bad game, he was alright but people going on like he was incredible are deluded because he wasn't, never was and never will be.

Wijnaldum, once again one of them rare performances where he played good football, I just wish he'd play like that every game because we've seen time and time again, he is capable! which is what makes it frustrating when he goes missing so often in other games.

Firmino, that was probably his best game this season, maybe even the best one for Liverpool so far (debatable), he is absolutely incredible that lad.

Great read mate, thank you.

{Ed001's Note - cheers mate. I was a bit surprised to see so much praise for Clyne, I don't see what he offered that we would not have got from a youth player to be honest.}

9.) 17 Dec 2018
17 Dec 2018 20:07:50
Thanks very much Ed001, you beat me to it as I was going to re-watch this evening! So glad you did it tho as I'm still stuck at work!

I was thinking about the scores from my first viewing and came up with the following:

Goal scored = 2 points
Error leading to goal = -1 point
Stopping a clear goal = 1 point
Assist = 1 point

It was my way of trying to fully get to grips with the scoring system as I definitely think you've got something there!

I therefore would've given Shaq a 9, as he scored two goals. Wouldn't argue with Fab tho, as he would've been a 9 as well, +1 for his assist and then more points for the way he broke up play, bossed the midfield and generally put in a 'Hendo at his best' performance - doing the unspectacular things brilliantly!

I actually would've scored De Gea a bit more highly. He couldn't do anything about the goals, not least as a result of the deflections, but he did pull off a couple of very good stops (can't remember who from, I think Mane was one and Salah the other but would need to re-watch) .

However, the difference in distribution between him an Alisson was stark. Forget about direction and accuracy of passing, Alisson is always trying to release the ball quickly and make an attack, whereas De Gea was just sitting back, holding the ball and then (usually) hoofing it. It may be the lack of class he has in front of him, but this is the first time I have watched him in a full game since last season, and he is a shadow of the No 1 GK in the world that he has been (there or thereabouts) for some time now. Is his heart already elsewhere? Won't be Real or Atletico (unless Courtois or Oblak are moved on) but maybe PSG? Bayern?

Anyway, I'm splitting hairs, whereas what's quite clear is that we are 'hairs' apparent to the throne!

{Ed001's Note - it was de Gea's distribution that cost him, as it was awful.

As for Shaqiri, he wasn't on long enough to really affect the game enough to get a 9. Some goals are worth more than one point, some assists do not even deserve a point. So I don't give a set number.}

10.) 17 Dec 2018
17 Dec 2018 20:19:53
Well Ed, that's what I'd of preferred mate personally. You put a youngster on he's going to try his best to impress, they need to but instead Clyne is put on? that's one thing I don't understand, I mean it worked which if all good and well but I'd of been much happier to see a youngster start ahead of him. We already know what Clyne is capable of and it's sweet f*** all.

I just don't like Clyne mate, I don't know a great deal about him as a person but as a player he's simply not good enough, not for Liverpool nor for the PL.

11.) 17 Dec 2018
17 Dec 2018 21:04:57
This review was posted on the Man U page as well. Like it eds.

12.) 17 Dec 2018
17 Dec 2018 21:07:07
The praise over Clyne is people recognizing that this was his first league start of the season and he didn’t let anyone down. I don’t think anybody is claiming that he has a future at the club but he was solid and the fact that he lasted 90 minutes is incredible.

13.) 17 Dec 2018
17 Dec 2018 21:07:42
Salah, I love most of your contributions to this site but what is it with the ‘he’s not good enough for Liverpool’ stuff. We had an exchange a few weeks ago when you posted such a comment about Wijnaldum and now it’s Clyne’s turn. Klopp had enough faith in him to give him his first PL start of the season against United, up against a good player like Rashford, when there was at least one option available (Fabinho) . He did better than OK in the circumstances and contributed to a great team performance and a great result. So, just like Wijnaldum he is considered good enough for Liverpool by the manager but not by you. I just don’t get it.

14.) 17 Dec 2018
17 Dec 2018 21:18:26
I really enjoyed the match review and especially the Man Utd player ratings. Just for a laugh, I took a look at the Utd player ratings on the online version of the Manchester Evening News. Bearing in mind that the writers on the MEN are not much more than cheerleaders for Utd and City (like the Echo writers are for Liverpool and Everton), I was amazed that their ratings were not much higher than yours. For example, they gave Matic 2 and Lukaku 1.
I was one of those posters who praised Clyne’s performance. I agree with your rating but I don’t think you gave the guy sufficient credit for a creditable performance on his first PL appearance of the season in such a big game. One other minor quibble - I would have deducted half a mark from Lovren for allowing Lukaku to get in the cross that led to Alisson Becker’s mistake and resulted in the Utd equaliser.

15.) 17 Dec 2018
17 Dec 2018 21:36:28
Tell you what a liked from the game, vvd a true leader and captain after Allison made the mistake when Jesse away celebrating you can see vvd picking Allison up of the floor and rallying him up rather than the usual bs of defenders leaving the keepers stranded and alone after a mistake. Top class and great to see from our stand in captain, well done vvd lad. YNWA.

16.) 17 Dec 2018
17 Dec 2018 21:54:18
I would agree with Smeg Head. When you see Clynes name on the team sheet you fear the worst, he did well considering.

17.) 17 Dec 2018
17 Dec 2018 21:57:18
Ah each to their own WW, you have your opinion I have mine. I stand by Clyne not been good enough for Liverpool and he'll soon be a gonner (sooner the better) . Wijnaldum is good when he feels like it, when he plays good, granted he's absolutely class like yesterday but you speak like the sun shines out of his arse all of the time and it doesn't (imo), I think the opposite but that's our individual opinions mate.

18.) 17 Dec 2018
17 Dec 2018 22:44:13
I wonder if De Gea's problem this season is that he has no faith in his defense; just as a defense must have faith in their goalkeeper, as we saw last season first hand. Having said that, it doesn't explain his subpar performance in the world cup.

19.) 17 Dec 2018
17 Dec 2018 22:52:02
i think not only are we entitled to our opinions, which are obviously different as we value different things, are capable of seeing different things, etc, the manager has a scarcity of options at his disposal at any time.

by that i mean he can only select players at the club, available at that time, suitable for the position, can do the job required for the game. as such, by choosing Clyne for this game may not necessarily equate to an endorsement from Klopp that he is good enough for the club on a long term basis.

could Klopp have played Fab at RB and Hendo in the middle? yes. did he do so? no, because he obviously thought that having Fab in the middle will have a better impact (and who can disagree with him after that performance) and we don't know if he's trying to manage Hendo's minutes too given his injury record.

given that Fab is his choice in CM, that leaves limited options in RB. Clyne or young players and he went with Clyne. i notice Mane started the game on the right and wonder if that was also tactical to ensure Clyne gets more protection as Mane does track back quite well.

Point is, managers at the end of the day have to put 11 men out there to do a job. and at times, they have to go with what they have, even if they do not rate them as highly. just ask Mourhino.

20.) 17 Dec 2018
17 Dec 2018 23:03:56
Salah, please read my posts before resorting to inaccurate statements about my views of players including Wijnaldum and Clyne. I have posted on several occasions that I do not rate Wijnaldum as our best or even one of our best midfielders.

Nor do I think Clyne is our best or even one of our best fullbacks. What I have posted previously is that I am irritated when posters are arrogant enough to think they know better than the Liverpool manager when they deem certain players to be ‘not good enough for Liverpool’ when Klopp has decided they are by selecting them.

My way of supporting Liverpool is to get behind every player who pulls on that red shirt. I will give praise for a good performance and criticism for a poor performance but I will never damn them as ‘not good enough for Liverpool’ as that would be to claim to be a better judge of a player than Klopp.

21.) 17 Dec 2018
17 Dec 2018 23:18:00
A very enjoyable read I thought Fab was easily the best player on the pitch, his timing is excellent and that pass to Mane was an attackers dream.

22.) 17 Dec 2018
17 Dec 2018 23:18:34
Sgynwa, well argued but if a player was simply ‘not good enough for Liverpool’ surely the manager would not have him anywhere near the squad, never mind select him to start an important game?

23.) 18 Dec 2018
18 Dec 2018 00:13:13
Actually for our third i felt degea was flat footed.

24.) 18 Dec 2018
17 Dec 2018 20:50:57
Thanks for that eds been waiting all day and it’s didn’t disappoint. IF and it’s a Big if Mourinho is still I charge by January then they got dome serious buying to do! What a mess.

{Ed001's Note - Jose must stay!}

25.) 18 Dec 2018
17 Dec 2018 21:16:20
thanks for the review.

just wondering if you think that
1. Klopp's getting better with his subs? at 65mins he was trying to bring Shaq on, that's kinda early for Klopp but was the right decision. oh and it seems his recent subs have all gone on to have an impact at crucial moments - Origi, Firmino, Shaq.

2. the team lacks good set-piece takers, esp corners. other than TAA, i can't think of someone else who offers us good corners. Milner gets it right once a while but is largely off, the less said about or corners in this game the better.

3. appreciate how you phrased Clyne's performance. i personally thought he was awful because as a senior full-back with England caps, i expected him to offer much more. granted he hasn't played much the past 1.5 years but he definitely is not at the level required. no doubt, he still made those runs to support the attack and should be praised for effort, but he has no impact as his touch, passing and crossing were bad. some claimed that he had Rashford in his pocket, i disagree. i thought Rashford never really tested him and when Utd did muster any attacks down his side, Clyne didn't defend well enough. i definitely wouldn't want him playing against Sane in Jan.

4. Fabhino was really good wasn't he? do you think he's better playing as a the deepest midfielder by himself or does a 2 work better for him? i thought at times it felt like he was playing 2 v 1 though it had no consequences as utd was so poor, but against better opposition that will concern me.

5. how has Mourinho gotten so bad? he used to be able to get massive performances out of players and in one-off matches, pull off a tactical masterclass. if anything, he seemed disinterested.

{Ed001's Note - 1. I have always said that Klopp's subs were held back because he did not have faith in the players on the bench to change games when needed. Now he does he is using them, so yes he is getting better with them.

2. Shaqiri is a good set-piece taker, but yes it is a weakness.

3. Clyne was terrible, but tried. I was just being fair because it was his first game of the season and he is bound to be rusty. At least he didn't make an serious errors, other than woeful attempts to cross. I would rather we turn to a youth player than stick with him though.

4. It depends on who is alongside him. If the other player is as responsible as him, then fine. If not then he is going to end up getting caught out of position because his team mate is missing. That happened a few times in the first half when he played alongside Wijnaldum a couple of games ago, but changed in the second half when Gini was obviously told at half-time. Personally I would rather him on his own, as we don't really have anyone to play there with the same level of defensive responsibility.

5. He did lose his dad and that clearly has affected him. He has barely smiled since then, when he used to be quite cheerful.}

26.) 18 Dec 2018
17 Dec 2018 21:26:22
Thanks ed! I appreciate it's time consuming going through both teams but I really enjoy reading it so cheers!

{Ed001's Note - thanks mate, makes it worthwhile doing in that case!}

27.) 18 Dec 2018
17 Dec 2018 22:43:03
Thanks Ed. Maybe be simplifying it, but for me Clyne deaerves praise for just seemlessly slotting. Solid performance in a massive game after being out for ages deserves praise for me. Maybe others are over-praising but rekon he deaerves credit.

Also for VVD, his goal threat must be a balance between him (and others' movement in the box) as well the delivery. Over the last 2 or 3 seasons wr must have some of the worst delivery from corners in the world!

{Ed001's Note - I am sorry but I just don't see that he deserves praise for doing the absolute minimum a player on nigh on 100k a week should do. He was a massively weak link and does not deserve praise for simply turning up.

Which also comes back to the point Wirral mentioned, blaming Lovren for allowing Lukaku to cross but forgetting to notice that Clyne is the full-back whose job is to stop crosses.}

28.) 18 Dec 2018
18 Dec 2018 00:35:31
Apologies WW, I think I got you mixed up with another poster mate.

BUT this thing you keep talking about, people claiming to know more then the manager is nonsense, it's opinions mate that's all, I know nowhere near as much as Klopp and never claimed to but I do have opinions as does everybody else mate. I don't know why peoples opinions irritate you so much? end of the day on sites like this that's all it's about, people having their say on things but to you this isn't allowed? come off your high horse mate and accept people think differently to you at times.

'I will never damn them as ‘not good enough for Liverpool’ as that would be to claim to be a better judge of a player than Klopp. '

How would it? another nonsense statement, just because we can clearly see a certain player isn't good enough for Liverpool doesn't mean we judge a player better than Klopp lol he probably doesn't rate him either but he had very limited options, there's a reason why he hasn't started in god knows how long mate, think about it.

29.) 18 Dec 2018
18 Dec 2018 01:45:57
WW. it depends to what level of not good enough he is and the situation at hand. though i can see where you are coming from.

put it this way, there are some that are not good enough that will never get a game - lazar makovic.

and there are some that are not good enough but we make do for now - Clyne, Mignolet, Moreno, etc.

For some reasons, Klopp decided it was better to have Clyne than a youngester for this game. Perhaps he was wary of Utd, its afterall Utd and Mourhino, and Klopp hasn't beaten Utd nor Mourhino in the PL. Perhaps the youngsters were not quite ready? Perhaps he made other tactical tweaks to ensure Clyne didn't get too exposed? (which i thought was evident when Lovern and VVD took turns to sprint pass Clyne to cover for him, having Mane start the game on the right, having Fab focus more on the right side, leaving Keita to cover the left more) .

whatever the reasoning was, with the options available, Klopp thought Clyne was the best bet and thankfully it worked out (and to a large extent, i think he was somewhat fortunate as Rashford did not really get a chance to test him and the few times he did, Clyne was well beaten) .

i think we can all agree though that Clyne isn't the LT solution for our RB position and its an area I believe we'll have to strengthen or bring up the youngsters for cover is TAA is to continue playing there.

30.) 18 Dec 2018
18 Dec 2018 05:58:01
Just playing devils advocate but imagine that Klopp starts Camacho against United. It’s his first ever game for Liverpool and imagine he makes a mistake that costs us the game. Imagine what that would do to his confidence.

TAA got absolutely slaughtered after the game at Old Trafford last season when Rashford scored twice and by then he had played most of the season and had some brilliant performances behind him.

Manchester United at home would not be the right game to give a young kid like Camacho his debut, a bad game could destroy him.

{Ed001's Note - if that does destroy him then he is simply not cut out to play at the highest level. Sorry but it is nonsense. Players learn from adversity and grow, those who fold under it are not up to the mark anyway and it is better to find that out earlier rather than later.}

31.) 18 Dec 2018
18 Dec 2018 06:49:05
Clyne did ok but all the Man U attacks came from the Lovren/ Clyne flank. He needs to be better defensively and Lovren needs to cut out crosses more.

{Ed001's Note - a full back's role is to cut out crosses, not a centre back! If the centre back is being dragged out to that area, then something has gone wrong with the full back's defensive positioning. I know the modern day wing back seems to be immune from criticism for not getting back, but they shouldn't be. If they are going to race forward, then they have to be willing to do the same when going back towards their own goal. Clyne never showed that willingness, something that Robertson can very very rarely (if ever) be criticised for.}

32.) 18 Dec 2018
18 Dec 2018 07:18:13
You are so good at explaining football eds. reminds me of my late great farther inlaw who was a great footballer. He always seen something in the game that no one else did.

{Ed001's Note - thank you mate.}

33.) 18 Dec 2018
18 Dec 2018 10:27:34
Sgynwa, you put your points across very well. It is just that the phrase ‘not good enough for Liverpool’, used about one of our own, pushes my buttons and not in a good way. I guess it is all about the thing that my all-time hero, Sir Kenny Dalglish, talks about all the time - respect.

34.) 18 Dec 2018
18 Dec 2018 10:51:33
So wirral, please answer one thing for me, is Clyne good enough for this Liverpool team? He's not good enough and it's as simple as that, you seem to be failing to understand that, what next I take it lallana is good enough for this team or how about mignolet? He isn't getting game time because he's bloody crap. It has nothing to do with respect its about identifying those who are good enough for the club and those who aren't and I'm afraid Clyne isn't good enough for Everton nevermind Liverpool.

Whether my opinion does your head in or not, that's your issue but I think you'll find the majority wouldn't lose any sleep WHEN Clyne leaves. Your love for him shines through which is fair enough but don't try telling people what they should and shouldn't be saying, I find your posts full of sh*t but you have your opinions and you're entitled to them, you talk about respect, how about respecting other people's views? .

35.) 18 Dec 2018
18 Dec 2018 13:14:45
Salah, interesting post. You demand respect while disrespecting me. I am not tdisrespecting your views I am arguing against them. There is a difference.

I’ll try to articulate my position one final time then leave it alone. I have total confidence in Jurgen Klopp as the Liverpool manager. If he decides that a player, any player, (including Clyne, Lallana and Mignolet) is good enough for Liverpool by selecting them for the team then that is good enough for me. Any poster who insists that a player who has been selected by Klopp is not good enough for Liverpool is setting his or her judgement above that of Klopp. I am not sure that there are any posters on this site who are qualified to make that claim (ie is an experience football manager amongst the elite group of managers who have won a major league or European trophy) but perhaps you are.

Neither of us will change our minds on this so Merry Christmas, Salah, have a good one.

36.) 18 Dec 2018
18 Dec 2018 13:47:41
We are going around in circles with this and always will do. I never demanded respect, what I want is for people like you to respect other people's opinions. You can't seem to do that therefore you're wasting my time.

Be all and end all is, we both love Liverpool, that's quite evident but don't try and tell me how I should think because you'll fail every single time mate, we have different views and that is all good and well but don't go against people because they disagree with you, my 12 year old is more mature and that's not a dig nor an insult, it's how it is.


But no matter what, I wish you the best and I hope you too, have a fantastic Christmas.

{Ed002's Note - Well the two of you trolling posts will simply get the entire thread deleted.}

37.) 18 Dec 2018
18 Dec 2018 14:19:36
Ed02, a deserved yellow card, warning heeded.

38.) 18 Dec 2018
18 Dec 2018 16:34:11
can't we all just get along, it's Christmas time and Liverpool is top of the league. just give each other a big hug and move on. :-)