Liverpool Banter Archive February 10 2017

 

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10 Feb 2017 21:09:21
Apparantly we have a scout at Bordeaux v Psg tonight. Any ideas who we might be watching ed?

Believable0 Unbelievable1

{Ed002's Note - No, but scouts attend games all of the time.}

10 Feb 2017 22:09:08
Probably one of, Bordeaux, or PSG players mate.


10 Feb 2017 22:21:14
Got lost on the way to St Mary's.


{Ed025's Note - nice one ron..

11 Feb 2017 20:27:47
Comedy Gold, Ron.


10 Feb 2017 16:47:25
Hi Eds/ Reds,

What is your opinion on ............

Believable1 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - I appreciate the comment but not somewhere we want to go.}

10 Feb 2017 16:56:13
Yep that's fair enough.

Have a great weekend.


10 Feb 2017New image uploaded to the Liverpool Player Sightings page entitled, Cesc Fabregas quote?

Believable1 Unbelievable1

10 Feb 2017 20:12:30
Grammatically Cesc, 'everyday' in this context should be two words. Get your point though.


11 Feb 2017 09:35:04
Cesc is just making excuses for being flmsy. Some of the best players have talent AND physical ability. Even supposed lightweights like Sterling and Silva can battle when needed.


10 Feb 2017 07:57:52
Hey guys, just want to pass on misses had our baby 2 weeks ago zara. She is born into a loving family and will be warmed into supporting only one team.

After losing our 7 year old son xavier 4 months ago, she has been a godsend and has gotten our lives back together.

Would like to thank all the eds and posters on here for your support and providing procrastination going through posts.

Bless you all.

Tristan.

Believable38 Unbelievable1

10 Feb 2017 09:15:49
Great positive news coming out of the worst possible time mate.

Wishing you all the best and some very happy memories from now on.


10 Feb 2017 09:49:05
Congratulations and I wish you well big love from the negative one and family.


10 Feb 2017 09:52:59
Many congratulations mate, wonderful news to read.
Best Wishes to Zara and mum 🙂.


10 Feb 2017 10:04:41
Congrats mate. Sorry to hear about Xavier : ( just had a son myself and I don't think I could ever get myself together if I lost him.

Thoughts are with you and I wish you and your family the best of luck from now on.


10 Feb 2017 10:31:50
The very best of luck to you and your family Tristan and a very big Co. Louth welcome to baby Zara.


10 Feb 2017 10:36:45
Congratulations to you both, so sorry to hear about your
Son also.


10 Feb 2017 11:01:31
I can't imagine what you must have been going through, I have kids that age and I can only post that I pray this is the start of better things and that you shower your baby girl with love and you all come through this OK. Our thoughts are with you mate.


10 Feb 2017 11:09:52
Great news mate. Best of luck to you and your family.


10 Feb 2017 11:35:28
Can never replace a loved one but I hope she can help fill some of the gap in your heart. Puts everything into perspective.


10 Feb 2017 11:48:21
Super stuff, stay blessed.


10 Feb 2017 13:18:37
Great stuff, bro. Congrats and enjoy every minute of it!


10 Feb 2017 13:27:52
Delighted for you mate. Congratulations to you and the Mrs.


10 Feb 2017 13:03:04
Great news and happy for you mate. She will bring back all the happiness to your family. YNWA.


10 Feb 2017 14:16:18
That is the best news. I wish you and your family all the health and happiness in the future. God knows you deserve it.


10 Feb 2017 15:04:02
Bless you and yours . Ynwa.


10 Feb 2017 16:07:57
Congratulations Humancenterpide on the new arrival.

Cheers.


10 Feb 2017 16:36:59
Nice one mate, congrats to the missus because she did all the work. 😉.


10 Feb 2017 16:57:52
Congratulations to the proud parents. after reading some of your previous post, it sounds like you've had a terrible time lately so couldn't wish you any more happiness with your little princess. good luck and remember YNWA.


10 Feb 2017 18:40:59
God bless you all.


10 Feb 2017 20:00:56
Great news many.


10 Feb 2017 20:34:35
Thoughts are with you and your family mate. The wonderful thing about this site is it restores your faith in human compassion. I hope you and your wife take comfort in little Zara and the fact that, whilst we share our love of football, family priorities and life always bring football firmly into perspective.
So sorry about the loss of Xavier so young, god bless you all buddy.


11 Feb 2017 00:52:01
Congratulations mate, sounds like you deserve this blessing after what youve been through. YNWA.


11 Feb 2017 12:27:33
Hold your head up high
YNWA mate.


11 Feb 2017 13:18:11
Big congrats mate and love to you all YNWA.


10 Feb 2017 05:07:41
Heads up. long post!

I know this ignores all the great goals we've scored, the chances opposition created but didn't score etc. so it's only a small snapshot, but I've gone over the games this season (courtesy of LFCTV) and just looked at the goals we have conceded to see where they've come from and just how many of them may have been avoidable.

Here's the list (and feel free to correct me if I've missed any) . I've categorized things as either a "Mistake" when an obvious error by a defender or GK directly led to the goal, or "Soft" when it should have been an avoidable goal but for a weak defence, or "Neutral" where I feel it's just one of those things that we're unfortunately going to concede every now again. I've deliberately tried to be generous and recognize goals as "Neutral" where possible

Arsenal
1) Walcott left completely unmarked by Moreno and they score from a poor turnover - Soft
2) Goalkeeper beaten at near post after good run into the box Ox but I gave Migs benefit of the doubt here - Neutral
3) Conceded from a setpiece into the box, Ramsay gets in behind but a good delivery - Neutral

Burnley
1) Ball given away by a poor pass from Clyne, was a one on two with our CB's but a great shot on goal to score, a bit soft but I'll be generous as a great shot on target was needed - Neutral
2) Ball given away on edge of their box, resulting in a 3 on 3 break against Lovren/ Klavan/ Hendo. more a system issue than any individual - Neutral

Tottenham
1) A ball played in behind Milner, cross over to their LB, Danny Rose scores as Clyne was tracking someone else into the centre of the box and couldn't clear - Neutral

Leicester
1) Lucas miscontrols the ball at CB letting in Vardy to score - Mistake

Chelsea
1) Matic runs over Llalana to get to byline and crosses for Costa to score - Neutral

Hull
1) Corner to middle of the box, Gini challenges but the ball falls to Hull and it's smashed home, but soft as a CB should have cleared it but at least we challenged - Neutral

Swansea
1) Corner to far post, beats Clyne comfortably and Swansea heads back across goal for Leroy Fer to score from close range - Soft

WBA
1) Corner failed to clear first time by Lovren and scored from close range, really should have cleared the danger, was very weak in the air - Soft

Tottenham
1) Soft penalty awarded against Lucas, tackle on edge box, tough call on Lucas by referee - Neutral

Crystal Palace
1) Lovren looped his backpass to Karius and intercepted by McArthur - Mistake
2) Cross from right not blocked by Moreno, Lovren comfortably beaten by McArthur at near post to score, very poor defensively all around - Soft

Watford
1) Slip by Milner loses possesion but its followed by a good run into box and shot by Janmaat - Neutral

Bournemouth
1) Lovren mistake as fails to clear a big punt upfield with a header, then Milners desperate tackle gives away penalty - Soft
2) Good counter-attack - Neutral
3) Good cross from the right and an excellent stop and shot in the box, shouldn't have had the chance to get it without challenge perhaps, but a great goal - Neutral
4) Cross/ shot spilled by Karius and Ake scores - Mistake

West Ham
1) Payet long distance free kick, Karius left too much space but still a great free kick - Neutral
2) A punt upfield and a deflection was completely misread by Matip letting Antonio in to score - Soft

Stoke
1) Cross from left, Lovren fails to track the run and beaten to cross by Walters, with Migs also comfortably beaten at his near post - Soft

Sunderland
1) Misstimed tackle by Klavan for a penalty, tough on Klavan as he was left exposed - Neutral
2) Mane stupid handball off a free kick for a penalty - Mistake

Sunderland
1) Ball hoofed forward and a mistimed clearance by Klavan let's in a Sunderland player to pass to Redmond unmarked - Soft

Man Utd
1) Ball pinged across the box a few times until buried by Ibrahimovic - Neutral

Swansea
1) A corner takes 3 unchallenged touches by Swansea players until its buried by Lorente from close range - Soft
2) Swift counter attack until a interception by Klavan falls unluckily to Sigurdssen - Neutral
3) Overlap then a sharp cross from the left is buried by Lorente. but he scores over Klavan/ Milner who barely challenged - Soft

Southampton
1) Good breakaway goal from Southampton late in the game, three on three and Long scores - Neutral

Wolves
1) Set piece where Stearman had a free header from 5 yards out with no-one challenging - Soft
2) Counter attack - three on three and Weiman scores after not being tracked by Randall. Soft as we were a complete shambles in defence - Soft

Chelsea
1) Goal from Luiz after Migs not alert to the danger, wasn't even looking - Mistake

Hull
1) First touch from a corner is won by Hull, flapped at by Migs and put away by Niasse - Mistake
2) A breakaway goal with one on two with the CBs - Matip doesn't track the run and Lucas doesn't spot Niasse behind him - Soft

That's 35 goals of which
6 were obvious mistakes
13 of which can be considered soft (being generous here)
Only about half would be considered ones where we put up a real fight but the opposition scored through good play

Also 19 goals were from regular play but 10 (! ) goals were conceded from indirect free kicks and Corners! Compare that to our tally?
6 goals could be considered counter-attacks where our defence was badly exposed. Not as many as I expected but overwhelmingly we were playing lower sides and looked very exposed (panicked? )

Not exactly rocket science but we clearly concede way more regularly from set pieces than we score, we have too many GK errors in there, and we are also overwhelmingly weak in the air in our box vs. the opposition.

Also noteworthy that since Bournemouth we've conceded 20 goals of which 13 could be considered "Soft" or a "Mistake", while before we had a much lower %'age of goals conceded due to errors and only conceded c.1 or so a game.

Believable9 Unbelievable4

10 Feb 2017 08:59:58
How many of them aswel would de gea of saved.

If we want to be top then we have to have a keeper who can grt us ther3 snd you can probably knocl of atleast 10 goals from that list if we had one.

There are loads where it was one on ones and migs just crumbles instead of staying big and th3 ball just rolls past him.


10 Feb 2017 09:32:01
Think you have been very generous in some places! I won't go through it all because I largely agree, but just in the Arsenal and Burnley games you have 3 goals as Neutral when I personally would have the all down as soft/ mistakes, all with Clyne involved.

First is the Ox's goal where he strolled into our box past Clyne completely unchallenged, then shot straight through Lovren and Mignolet. That is soft.

Second is Chambers header. It was conceded from a free kick Clyne conceded by fouling a player going backwards. Ridiculous decision making. Then when the resulting free kick comes in Chambers heads in unmarked. Soft is nearly an understatement.

The opening goal vs Burnley is just a full on mistake though. Our team is streaming forward looking to go on an attack and Clyne inexplicably tries to pass it backwards, but just to add to it he doesn't look and gives it straight to Burnley who score with Mignolet beaten at his near post.

As is the theme on this site though, this is quite harsh on the centre backs. You have a lot of goals down as soft where your description infers Lovren or Klavan were the guilty party. You don't often mention that the crosses and counter attacks were coming unchallenged after we had given possession away cheaply and left them outnumbered or retreating rapidly.

Our main issues with conceding goals stem from dreadful full back play, and a system with only 1 central midfielder, who by the way isn't naturally defensive anyway. The only other team in the top 6 foolish enough to do this are Man City, and I would hardly say they epitomise defensive solidarity. Chelsea play with Kante and Matic. Arsenal with Coquelin and Cazorla/ Xhaka. United with Herrera and Carrick. Spurs with Dembele and Wanyama. Lallana and Wijnaldum have built careers on being part of the attack. I think Gini has the quality and time on his side to adapt into a deeper role, but as part of a 2 man holding pair where Hendo can talk to him like he did with Can last season. Difference is, Gini is much better on the ball than Can.

We are literally putting Hendo in midfield and then playing with 5 attackers ahead of him, and wing backs who play higher up than Firmino at times. When teams break it is usually Hendo and the centre backs vs the whole opposition.

I think you are spot on with a few points Zimbo where you reference the fact that the system is ultimately at fault. Klopp has to take responsibility for this. We never let Rodgers off the hook when he made Gerrard our holding midfielder and set the defence up to behave like a sieve. We have some very error prone individuals (Clyne, Moreno etc) and some very average defenders some of whom have the excuse of not being defenders (Milner, Lucas etc) . But ultimately, we have Matip, Lovren and Klavan as our senior centre backs all of whom looked great at their former clubs. Mario and Klavan were regarded as steals, and Lovren at the time was rightly rated as one of the best centre backs in the Prem by Eds and Reds alike. Clyne and Moreno always looked average and were bad signings, but when do we stop pointing at the centre backs, and start accepting that our coaching has been shoddy defensively since Steve Clarke left the club? Because he and Kenny had Skrtel and Agger playing as the tightest partnership in the league. They were hardly the personification of error-proof!

Was that time period (the last where our defence was solid) also the last time we won a trophy? Hmm, interesting. As the old adage goes, attacks win games, defence win you trophies. When you see the defence Klopp built at Dortmund, you have to hope he will soon rectify this error in judgement.


10 Feb 2017 09:43:37
Fantastic post and a good read mate well done.
Even with your long post it's still only scratching the surface of our defensive issues though, so many factors come into it, plus you could argue they are all avoidable in a way. Top post though and a refreshing change from some of the garbage on here recently.


10 Feb 2017 09:51:52
Good read and agree we could and should have stopped a lot of these goals.


10 Feb 2017 11:05:00
Actually if you look through the goals, it's not the 1-1s that kill us, it's the crosses into the box from free play or set pieces, that we continuously fail to take care of, that kills us. Migs has certainly been beaten a few times at the near post though which isn't great.


10 Feb 2017 11:42:20
Thanks for replies and MK agree to some extent system is an issue - when we're in a game with even possession the high press works quite well and we can play with the one deep midfielder, but against sides that sits deep we leave ourselves too exposed with 80% of the pitch unoccupied for the opposition to break into and isolate our CBs. Far more urgent though is addressing the defensive set pieces IMO (again! ), particularly corners.


10 Feb 2017 13:31:15
Great post, Zimbo and you illustrated everything I've been thinking regarding our goals conceded. We lack edge and bottle in critical defensive situations. Also, some of our defenders are perennially error-prone and so is Migs (Karius has time to learn so his mistakes are part of the process IMO) so to me, it doesn't matter what system we play. If someone will continuously screw up (like Lovren, Clyne or Migs) individually or collectively, we will continue to struggle.

The way we play requires us to defend as a team hence, from the front which explains for most of the season, why we have conceded the least shots on target in the PL while at the same time having the best attack. The prob is that even the goals we concede are not due to being ripped open by the opposition.

It is due to our inability to cut out individual errors to the bare minimum and this is where Klopp needs to improve the system 9or get players who can actually defend one on one situations better) and drill the defence to be more gritty in all defensive aspects (set pieces, counter attacks etc. )


10 Feb 2017 13:34:08
Zimbo good post. You have detailed what many have said for a long time:
-We are poor at set pieces in attack and defence
-We are poor at dealing with crosses
-We have less than average goalkeeper options.

I dare say you could extrapolate your original post back 3-4 seasons and it would reach the same conclusions.

Fundamentally - we have a big problem with our coaches.


10 Feb 2017 12:44:57
Drop Henderson for a world class holding player alongside Wijnaldum.


10 Feb 2017 14:54:17
Lovren was NEVER a 320 million defender and was terrible even in Southampton's good season. Any one who even remotely understands the game knows Southampton saw LFC coming on that one, pants down. I can't think of many who wanted him.


10 Feb 2017 18:55:29
I have to say, at first glance Mathematics post sounds ridiculous - drop Henderson for a world class holding player.
I wouldn't drop Henderson, I'd drop Can, or Lallana or Wijnaldum, but not Henderson.
However, the point about a holding midfielder is well made. So many of the goals conceded have been from us giving up possession and opponents running straight at our defenders who can't cope. Or they've been cutting inside a fullback, or threading a ball across our back line.
A holding midfielder would cut a lot of them goals out, there's no doubt about that. They wouldn't help set pieces or crosses in the box but it would go a long way to reducing our defensive vulnerability.

Bottom line - we need a half decent keeper and a holding midfielder. Sell Can and Mignolet.


{Ed002's Note - You have two half decent goalkeepers already.}

10 Feb 2017 19:25:32
Depends on the criteria ed002, in terms of premier league goalkeepers I'd have to disagree with you.
Karius has potential, but our goalkeeping coach will not allow him to reach it.


{Ed002's Note - No, they are both "half decent" Ron.}

10 Feb 2017 23:11:57
It would be a joke to drop Wijnaldum or Lallana while Can is already out. Henderson currently occupies the holding player so he should be dropped for a better one?
Wijnaldum is a good player when you play him high up and his 2 bullet headers proves that point. He also link ups well, doesn't he? And most importantly he is Klopp's fav player who he bought an year ago. No chance he goes to bench nor Henderson has any role upnfront.

I know it's a difficult confusion but for any new CDM to come in one of Wiji or Hendo goes to bench and that's a bottom line.


11 Feb 2017 01:22:28
You need to get out more lad.


11 Feb 2017 15:41:09
Klopp should have got in a top keeper in the summer, and we would have a few more points on the board, and fans would be happy .


{Ed025's Note - less goals..yes, liverpool fans happy?...now your taking the piss mate.. :)

 
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