Liverpool Banter Archive May 12 2017

12 May 2017 23:34:32
Klopp has said that there's a good chance Coutinho could play in the 8 position next season, think this could be a great decision as I feel he could really pull the strings deeper and dictate play. This correlates with the idea of us going after a left winger which the Eds have said. Remember Phil in midfield in the 13/ 14 season, he was excellent.

12 May 2017 23:58:54
Did he say which team he'd be playing for?

13 May 2017 00:09:58
I like the idea of having more attack-minded players in our midfield too. Always thought two attacking midfielders and 3 front players is the way to go. Not sure if we are doing that already.

13 May 2017 04:52:18
I like the idea but think a midfield 3 works best with a complementary set of players. 13/ 14 for example saw a deep playmaker in Gerard, a box to box player in Hendo and Coutinho for creating in attack.

If Coutinho drops deeper, I can see him working best alongside Gini, Hendo or maybe Can but not so sure about Llalana who I think might find himself a bit more restricted playing in a midfield 3 with a Coutinho (unless against sides with no interest in attacking like Southampton)

Still feel the best way to Coutinho and Llalana in midfield would be in a 4-2-3-1 and then play Llalana, Coutinho and Mane behind Firmino.

13 May 2017 08:19:48
Couts as a CM would at least scrap the experiments with 3-4-3, wouldn't it? Can't see a CM pair with him in it that could work.

13 May 2017 08:55:38
COUTINHO has been tried as an 8 in various games and has been rubbish, a new attacking midfielder will be bought in and coutinho and lalana will be competing with him, when push comes to shove coutinho and lalana have had there chance and they've been found wanting, don't forget the cup finals.

13 May 2017 23:39:33
It's a really good idea. It would have a number of benefits:

1. More creativity in the midfield
2. Improves how the midfield pulls the strings
3. It gives him more space
4. He will drag defenders away from the front 3
5. It can make the front 3 more expansive by occupying Coutinho's old position with a winger that provides width

12 May 2017 20:09:06
Ed001 you said yesterday or the day before that our interest in Gaya may spike if Sessegnon is unattainable.

I haven't seen much of him this season but I did watch a fair amount of him the season before. He has pace to burn, and is very technically gifted. I wasn't massively convinced by him defensively though. I'm not sure he is an upgrade on Milner in that respect. Just by being able to cross with his left foot makes him an attacking upgrade though.

I will give Gaya his due, he offers a very good outlet down the left, and he works very hard for his team! In my opinion he'd be decent for about £15-20m (in the current market anyway) .

What is your opinion of the player? Does he have the potential to develop into a top defender?

{Ed001's Note - I don't know, he is excellent going forward but I do have major doubts over his defending. If we are going with attacking fullbacks he would be an upgrade on the players we have. If we are going with old school defensive fullbacks then his only real upgrade over Milner is his pace and the fact he is left footed. The worry is that no one seems to be coached in the defensive arts these days, other than centre backs, so I am not sure he will improve.}

12 May 2017 20:26:40
Good point on the coaching Ed. I guess the role models for a modern 'full' back nowadays would be the likes of Alba, Marcelo, Alaba, Alves, Alonso etc.

I actually said the other day to a guy at work that when Lahm retires, the last truly world class full back will be gone and the modern era of wing backs will have completely taken hold. Cafu, Maldini, Neville, Zanetti etc. They're fossils in the modern game. I thought Azpilicueta might be a throw back but he's duly been converted into a centre back. Sad in some respects that the position has developed into such an attacking biased role. Even bottom half teams like Palace and Hull are utilising wing backs like Aanholt and Robertson now. You know the traditional full back is extinct when a dinosaur like Allardyce turns to wing backs! Tony Pulis is so aware of the dearth in full backs that he has converted a centre back (Dawson) into a right back in his mid 30's!

Weird how the game changes. Thanks for the reply mate. Sounds like Gaya will suit our system to me at least.

{Ed001's Note - to be fair, Dani Alves has improved massively at defending over time. I do agree though, defending is a dying art in general.}

12 May 2017 23:04:43
The prob is that former wingers are now being converted to FB's hence they have defensive issues. Not that there is a problem with that cos Cafu Leonardo, and Roberto Carlos where ex-midfielders before they became defenders and Carlos aside, Cafu and Leonardo were very good defensively.

12 May 2017 19:03:25
These days we hear a lot about, how getting in the champions league next year, will affect our actions on the transfermarked this summer, and the quality of the targets as well. I was just wondering, what is the "qualified for champions league" criteria for these players. Do we need the 3. spot, or will a 4. and the playoffs do the job?

12 May 2017 19:40:45
The thing about coming 4th is that it's not a guarantee because you still have a qualifying round to play. That in itself might sway some players, whereas if we come third it will be a dead cert and a bigger carrot.

12 May 2017 19:56:16
If we finish 4th, we qualify for the play-offs, regardless of what happens in the Europa League final.

12 May 2017 21:59:43
Ed do you think being in the CL playoffs will be a help or hindrance to our preparation as we will would be involved im preseason matches anyway?

{Ed007's Note - It could possibly be chaos, the likes of which no man has seen before! Which matches would you prioritise, who plays in friendlies or qualifiers, it's decisions all the time. On top of the in place plans Liverpool will probably sign 11 new players in the summer in case they need to play a CL qualifier and a preseason friendly at the same time.}

12 May 2017 13:22:50
question for Ed01 if you have the time. If you were an opposition manager of say stoke, west brom or palace, how would you set up to beat us or contain. interesting to know your thoughts on how to beat the press or which spaces to target etc.

{Ed001's Note - the usual choice to beat a press is to drop deep and play long from the back. When a team presses, it has to leave space in behind, so the usual thing is to tempt a high pressing into chasing right onto the keeper and the keeper play it into the space. That is one of the reasons Pep wants a keeper who can kick the ball well, as he knows his team is vulnerable to a press.}

12 May 2017 16:28:26
Watch palace, southampton or any team not in the top 6 as theybe got it sussed.

Of course its because are plahers don't try hard enough, nothing to do with klopp.

{Ed025's Note - its not because they dont try enough supermane its just that some of them are simply not good enough mate..

12 May 2017 16:34:43
If any of the EDDS r around, if worst comes to the worst and we didn't qualify for the champions league would the owners be looking to sell up, because let's be fair there ownership has a certain timescale, so if it doesn't happen for us how does the land lie.

{Ed002's Note - This season will be another disappointment regardless but they will stick at it until the right sort of offer comes along. At the moment we are seeing significant additional income from media rights and that eases the pain. UEFA will make a concerted effort to try and level the playing fields again which, if successful, could hit clubs like Liverpool very hard.}

12 May 2017 17:02:12
Sorry Ed002 but just to clarify, level what playing field? The field of what clubs earn from media rights, or just what clubs can spend in general?

{Ed002's Note - European football is completely distorted by the spending power of some clubs and the income of others. Debt at some clubs is out of hand, others work within what they earn. Then you add to that the tax issues that HMRC and the DGFP are trying to resolve, the tax issue regarding Monaco that cannot be resolved, the investigation in to agent payments that has dragged in Manchester United, Liverpool and other sides etc., the return of image rights issues and you can start to see it is far from a level playing field.}

12 May 2017 18:03:42
When I was at school we never played on level playing fields 🤔.

12 May 2017 16:59:32
Ed025 - it can be two things!

{Ed025's Note - it can be hjikie but klopp would not accept that, work rate is a major part of his philosophy as studge has found out to his cost mate..

12 May 2017 10:55:22
How do eds and fellow reds, reading a lot about how we are desperately seeking a winger. now back in January we were heavily linked with Quincey Promes. Is he one of the players we're interested in.
Cheers ynwa.

{Ed002's Note - I explained this in January.}

12 May 2017 22:42:40
Mental money is what they're asking.

12 May 2017 12:11:37
Everyone is saying we should treat the next two games like "Cup Finals". I think with Klopps record in such things it would probably best we didn't! .

12 May 2017 15:30:18
I vote we treat them like early-mid season games against top 6 opposition 😉.

12 May 2017 16:55:53
Very clever molby, made me chuckle a bit.

12 May 2017 20:21:11
Sly dig there but I get your point.

12 May 2017 10:46:25
Morning all how is everyone? I've been trying to find out who is the most successful footballer ever but i can't find a diffinitive answer I'm not talking volume, I mean who has one the most varied amount of trophys including World Cup and asuming euros/ copa American and AFCON are the same equivalent, champions league various leagues etc, anyone know who it is? I've seen answers like Giggs but he's done nothing internationaly, anybody know? It's probably really obvious.

12 May 2017 11:08:13
Maybe Thierry Henry? He's won the league title and the national cups in England, France and Spain, he's won the Champions League, World Cup and European Championship.

12 May 2017 11:13:35
googled this Maxwell is the most decorated active footballer with 36 Trophies.

12 May 2017 11:33:45
Maradona?

12 May 2017 12:08:59
Henry also should have the award for playing basketball on a football pitch while at the same time costing ireland a place in the finals.

12 May 2017 12:12:20
Dieder deshamp? Sorry about the spelling. I think he has won a lot.

12 May 2017 12:12:23
David may.

12 May 2017 12:20:56
Maybe cafu or the far Ronaldo would be my ghess.

12 May 2017 12:32:55
Maxwell hasn't won anything internationally JTaylor, it could be Henry but I'm still not sure.

12 May 2017 12:51:43
They many not have much in terms of international but seedorf and ibrahimovic where/ are well traveled and won trophies everywhere they went.

Both have 15 different trophies I think.

12 May 2017 13:08:32
Yaya Toure has won titles and cups in Greece, Spain and England. He's also won the Champions League, Club World Cup and the AFCON. I'd be amazed if he's the most diversely decorated, but he must be up there.

12 May 2017 13:30:11
More likely to be a German or Spanish player like Xavi or Klose.

12 May 2017 13:34:56
Think Thomas Muller must be up there.

12 May 2017 13:38:30
Fabregas must be up there, The whole lot in Spain, England and nationally, only problem is his champions league medal is a runner up.

12 May 2017 13:59:36
Most of the German and Spanish players mainly stayed in one league their entire careers (Bundesliga and La Liga respectively) so it's doubtful they would have the most varied trophy collection. Best bet would be a Brazilian or someone like Henry who has played for multiple great sides (France of 1998-2000, Arsenal's Invincibles, sextuple-winning Barcelona) .

12 May 2017 14:09:33
I also wouldn't rule out Alonso. He won everything in Spain, everything in Germany, a few titles at LFC, the Champions league, the world cup, and the euros.

12 May 2017 14:26:36
Voronin.

12 May 2017 15:29:24
Surprised no one has mentioned Ibrahimovic.

12 May 2017 16:02:42
Still no difinitve answer lol but a great response anyway, it's not ibra again he hasn't won major international trophies, Alonso is a great shout though, also I could be wrong but Ronaldo never won the CL.

12 May 2017 16:11:50
Rivaldo, Brazilian league, UEFA super cup, La Liga, Copa del Rey, Champions League, Coppa Italia, Greek league and cup, Uzbek league and cup, Campeanato Mineiro, Confederations Cup, Copa America, World Cu.

12 May 2017 16:31:37
Dermot donr you mea given another award for saving englands b team from embarressment haha sorry couldn't resist.

Bit of the old mike basset.

12 May 2017 16:38:49
For me, it would have to be Pele. 28 different titles with Santos and New York Cosmos. Played in 4 World Cups and won 3 of them (I gave this a lot of weight), scored over 1000 goals in his career. Still the best player of all time.

12 May 2017 17:10:41
Possibly Samuel Eto - Copa del Rey (2 clubs), La Liga, Supercopa Espana, CL, Serie A, Coppa Italia, Supercoppa, CL, Club World Cup, Afcon, Olymics Gold.

12 May 2017 18:33:44
Julio caesar is the most decorated with iniesta a close second here's the list of top 10

goo.gl/UGWn6

12 May 2017 22:42:14
LOL, very good Supermane.
I left myself wide open for that one.

Maradona wasn't bad at it either with God's helping hand. I can't remember who against?

But do you remember Maradonas 2nd goal,

Probably best world cup goal ever.

Tks for the crack.

12 May 2017 06:45:13
{Ed's Note - We have posted a new article entitled, Weekend Premier League Preview

11 May 2017 21:50:43
There's a raging debate going on here on Origi, and this is my take on it. I imagine every young player needs a considerable amount of guidance and "management" to fulfill as much of his potential. After the 6-1 drubbing of Southampton last year, I had posted here that I saw him as the next Drogba. The Origi of the end of last season was a free flowing striker, running at and blowing by defenders fairly regularly, and scoring goals. Obviously he was playing to his own strengths. The Origi of this season seems to be altogether a different animal. He's not facing defenders and trying to pass them as much, he's constantly playing with his back to the goal and holding up the ball for others that don't come, and he seems to have lost that little bit of a shooting touch. What do you think Ed001? I'm aware he has been injured but injuries don't completely alter your style of play do they? Is he being "managed" properly? My concern is that I would have hoped to see some progress from last season. And, along with many others here, I don't see it.

{Ed001's Note - he is being asked to play a different way, to bring others into the game. It should teach him for the future and make him a better player. Should.}

12 May 2017 06:34:53
Despite an indifferent season I'm holding a lot of hope for this kid in future, he has everything you want physically and does seem to have a eye for goal. Just needs to hit that level of consistency I think.

12 May 2017 06:51:32
Klopp should play to his strengths, it's clear what he's asking isn't working and it's costing us points.

Use the players you've got to win games, that what good managers do.

12 May 2017 07:16:36
When he scored four in a row earlier in the season I thought he'd turned a corner and I thought it was unfair that he was dropped. I wonder if he reacted badly to that? It must be frustrating to lose your place even when you're playing well. I reckon a lot of our young players might be feeling there's no route to the first team at the moment.

12 May 2017 08:25:02
Sorry can't see him scoring 20 goals a season yet. Do not see him in the playing XI if Mane is fit. He isn't particularly a great option of the bench yet either. but i think his general fitness has improved. I won't put too much on the lad, i don't think he is Liverpool level striker for at least a couple of seasons.
Definitely needs to work on brains side of his game. But then a lot of liverpool players do.
For me, unless we start crossing from the flanks, Origi ( like a drogba as OP stated) may not reach his potential at Liverpool. He can bully defenders but not with the ball at his feet.

12 May 2017 09:00:42
I like origi he does not hide and tries to do what is asked of him. But it clearly is not working, i would like to see him back on the wing running at full backs and put firmino back in the middle. I know he is not mane but he is the only one that offers that movement from wide. I would like to see him on the defenders shoulder looking to run in behind like he was doing last season before he got injured. Also the way klopp has the team playing atm does not suit his game so that has to be taken into consideration.

Either way he deserves the fans patience because he clearly has some talent and is actually not a bad finisher at all.

Despite that i still feel we need a quality 20 goal striker if as expected sturridge leaves.