Liverpool Banter Archive April 13 2017

13 Apr 2017 19:16:00
Why are people metioning Karius. for me we would get bergovic in and migs as 2nd. he's been awesome.

13 Apr 2017 22:36:43
Bergovic and Sausaugon?

14 Apr 2017 03:59:33
Begovic is old news and is no longer good enough. Heck, he didn't even play that much last season (nor this one) while Karius has been playing consistently in the Bundesliga for three full seasons and voted best GK behind Neuer. The kid is talented as his performance in the EFL Semi final vs Saints proved cos w/ o him, we wouldn't have been in the tie at all. How about we help him improve instead of given up on him.

14 Apr 2017 06:28:04
Premier league is nothing like Bundesliga as a keeper.
In all other leagues when a high ball comes into the box you can't touch the keeper. In the premier league you can. Karius is not up to it in my opinion. Why did City let him go?
He will do well in the other 'non-contact leagues', but he's not a premier league keeper.

{Ed001's Note - Man City have let many players go, it means nothing. Their recruitment policy is appalling, it is so haphazard and suffers from a real lack of forethought and planning.}

14 Apr 2017 08:33:50
Fair point ed, I hope Karius proves me wrong I really do.
I just see him being a bit like Markovic, not ready for LFC and needs an overseas loan to get his confidence back before being sold on.

14 Apr 2017 08:58:02
Until Karius is given a chance then he cannot prove you wrong Ron. I highly doubt he will be going on loan to be sold on. He has played a total of 1440 minutes which equates to 16 games and has conceded a total of 16 goals with an inept defence ahead of him. Whatever the reasoning behind Klopp's decision to bring back Mignolet will be unknown until the start of next season. Karius won't be going anywhere.

Unless Mignolet goes, there will be no new GK arriving. It is as simple as that.

14 Apr 2017 09:27:34
Same challenge always comes up though, where are these box dominating keepers queuing up for LFC to buy them? Also if your keeper is getting banged up the question to consider is what are the players defending that situation doing? Their job is to block and impede those attackers to stop that momentum. Watch keepers making good catches and you'll see defenders buying them the time and space to do it. When that doesn't happen any keeper will get clattered and struggle to claim the ball. It is another piece of the team game where they all need to work together, doesn't absolve the keeper but you have to give him a chance.

14 Apr 2017 09:28:37
We'll see max. GK is our biggest weakness for me and if it's not addressed in summer then expect another season of making life hard for ourselves.
If you're expecting some big revelation about why Karius hasn't played in 2017 and Mignolet has, then I think you're kidding yourself. He's dropped - it's as simple as that.

14 Apr 2017 09:53:09
Our defence combined with GK is our biggest weakness. I am willing to give Karius a chance. It is not like we will be able to go sign Cech or Courtois. Butland who you seem to be a fan of will cost an arm and leg and there are no guarantees that he is going to be better than Mignolet. We cannot afford anymore expensive mistakes, unfortunately. Mignolet was one of the best shot stoppers while at Sunderland. Pickford to Liverpool not going to fix anything either. GK's playing in teams which leak goals left right and centre make more saves compared to teams challenging for a top spot. Makes those GK's bottom half of the League look that much better until they are thrown into the deep end at a much bigger club.

GK situation aside, if Klopp cannot put together a defence which is able to deal with set pieces next season then it will be our undoing again.

14 Apr 2017 14:28:13
At Dortmund he had world class CB's. You can't replicate Spurs with Lovren, Klavan and Karius. You are talking about Toby, Vertonghen and Hugo loris.

14 Apr 2017 14:32:45
Pickford is shocking on crosses. Not a keeper who dominates his area. I'd be disappointed if we bought him.

14 Apr 2017 18:07:15
Pickford is awful and a MOTD player, good in highlight reels. And Ron, Karius was dropped due to over-reaction to two measly blunders and due to the fact that our own fans chose to side with a failed manager manc's witch hunt instead of getting a backbone and supporting our player at his lowest point. It had NOTHING to do with Migs as he had been dreadful for 3 full years here. Klopp had to act cos the moaners wouldn't stop over-reacting.

Also, if you are not ready to give Karius a proper chance to convince you that he's good or not, then he will always be awful. I am ready to give him a full chance to show me what he can do, mistakes or not and if he comes good, great. If he doesn't, we move on. Are you?

14 Apr 2017 20:28:43
I don't have an influence on whether he gets a chance to change my mind. It's up to Klopp.
Personally, I think goalkeepers of the top premier league teams need mental strength. If Karius can't take criticism of his performances, he's not the man for the job.

15 Apr 2017 18:54:58
It was not criticism he got as that is fine. It was a full blown witch hunt, a hatchet job by LFC "supporters" on social media well aided by a pathetic manc pundit along with an over-hyped LFC pundit bullying a young GK cos he had the guts to speak for himself. it was due to all that that Klopp took him out as it was getting crazy. Try to keep up with the facts, bro. It will help your case.

13 Apr 2017 18:06:07
the most commonly used sentence on this site is 'why buy XXX I'd rather see the youngsters used' this IMO is laughable. If a youngster is deemed good enough he will hold down a regular starting place e. g. Sterling, otherwise will be a reserve/ backup player and most likely be released to league 1/ 2 level. We need to stop fooling ourselves that all these kids are the next fowler/ Gerrard, if they were then they would force their way in the team through sheer ability.

Perfect example is the threads below, I wouldn't buy ox I'd play the youngsters, WTF! I'm not saying we should buy ox but none of our youngsters are anywhere near the standard of him nor klopps targets. If they were then the summer transfer activity will be extremely quite, and by ed002 sharkopod makes me believe klopp also doesn't see many of the youngsters either mature enough or with the ability to be a first team regular, hence the several players linked.

Only the absolute best youngsters will make the grade and hold down a first team place, it will stay that way thank god or we would have a team full of kids and face relegation.

{Ed001's Note - Sterling held down a place because we didn't have another option, not due to being good enough but down to lack of funds. Sterling was also nowhere near mature enough nor did he have the ability, it was all potential with him, just like it is with every kid. The absolute best youngsters go elsewhere, because they will get a game then.....}

13 Apr 2017 20:41:04
Ed001,

Sterling didn't have ability but was excellent in the reserves, then the first team (18 goals), then called up for England as 1 of the youngest ever and sold for £50m and is now a regular in the city and England team, yeah he was never good enough. You're way off IMO. Not too keen on the kid due to greed but his ability has never been in question.

{Ed002's Note - Liverpool did not get anything like £0M for him. You have to deduct the bonus payments and all of the money paid to QPR.}

13 Apr 2017 20:41:04
Ed001,

Sterling didn't have ability but was excellent in the reserves, then the first team (18 goals), then called up for England as 1 of the youngest ever and sold for £50m and is now a regular in the city and England team, yeah he was never good enough. You're way off IMO. Not too keen on the kid due to greed but his ability has never been in question.

{Ed001's Note - it was potential ability, excellent in the reserves? Never happened, you are lying. He was constantly being shifted from position to position in youth and reserve football and never established himself. He grew into his role with us because he was given first team football due to a lack of other options, because he had so much potential, he was the one that got the chance over others. You clearly are the one that needs to stop dreaming, if you believe Citeh paid £50m for his ability then, rather than the potential they believed he had to get better. His potential ability was never in question, but his current ability was constantly questioned, which was why there were a lot of people wanting him dropped long before his troubles hit the headlines. Remember when he buggered off on holiday to Jamaica mid-season? He was playing terribly at that time, hence being given a break. If you are going to argue a point, at least have some truth to your argument.}

13 Apr 2017 22:44:50
Potential with pace? . yes.

Final pass/ product? . No.

Attitude? . Very questionable.

Has Sterling improved at City? In my opinion no.

14 Apr 2017 00:34:07
I think you guys who mention sterling scoring lots of goals and also sturridge to a certain extent had Suarez to play alongside he created goals by providing work rate and just by being the menace he was more teams worried about him than the other two in my opinion and i must stress its my opinion the two fore named players best season is down to suarez.

14 Apr 2017 02:38:19
Ed makes a key point - no kid coming in from u23 is likely to blow the doors off from day 1 - they don't have the maturity or experience regardless of talent. it takes faith they will ultimately become better for having first team football and surpass what you can already buy off the shelf, and also a fair degree of guts from the coach to sacrifice near term team performance to allow that to happen.

IMO we have three very talented youngsters coming through in the forwards i. e. Woodburn, Ojo and Wilson who need game time at the top level while they are still improving, and all of them are getting to the critical age where if they sit in reserves they'll stagnate. I'd like to see a striker come in to replace Sturridge then use either Firmino or these three youngsters out wide to rotate for Coutinho or Mane.

14 Apr 2017 04:02:13
He is still working on potential cos ability wise, he is not good enough yet and is not in the same league as say, Mane.

{Ed001's Note - I would also say there is a bit of that about Sane, more so at the start of the season, when he was awful, but even now his end product is inconsistent. However he is playing constantly because you can see the ability is there, he just needs to add the experience to know what to do when.}

14 Apr 2017 08:44:56
I see my reply didn't get posted ed001.

So you get to jump up and down on my thread/ opinion but when I reply you decide if it's posted; I see how these debates work now.

{Ed001's Note - your reply was addressed to two different editors, yet you decide it was me who was at fault? Perhaps you should think and do two separate replies in future, so the points can be addressed by both editors.}

14 Apr 2017 14:26:38
I don't think Sterling will ever get a fair reflection of his ability on this site. He's not the finished article but 9 goals and 22 assists this season is very impressive.

15 Apr 2017 10:29:49
Would he get in Chelseas first team? I think not.

16 Apr 2017 07:53:21
Bruffio that would be my take as well, having several players as a threat opened chances across the board and Suarez especially scared teams in EPL.

13 Apr 2017 15:37:31
I know a lot of people are nervously looking over our shoulders in the race for CL football but I am quietly confident we can go past Spurs and finish second. Has anyone actually looked at their run in? It is awful.

They have an easy game against Bournemouth this weekend, but then they have; London Derby with Crystal Palace away, another London Derby with Arsenal at WHL, another London Derby with West Ham away, then they play Draw specialists Man United at WHL, then they go away to the in form Leicester, before rounding off the season against Hull city away (do not forget that game will probably have far more riding on it for Hull than Spurs, or that Hull are unbeaten at home under Silva) .

We should be aiming for a top 2 finish, not a top 4 finish! Our run in has banana skins in it, but we have no more top 7 teams to play, no more local derbies, no FA cup semi finals to worry about etc. Our hardest games are West Brom who have taken their foot off the gas, and Crystal Palace who will be without Sakho. Let's look forward guys, not backwards!

13 Apr 2017 15:50:13
I think we should just concentrate on ourselves. If we win all our matches, we will finish in a CL spot easily.

As for Spurs, they are the most in form team, and they will likely finish 2nd easily.

13 Apr 2017 16:13:01
Love the Positivity MK. Fingers crossed!

Although I would settle for top four. My worst nightmare is United winning their game in hands!

13 Apr 2017 16:29:31
MK we are Liverpool and we don't do things easy, love your positivity but im taking it one game at a time, and don't forget man city will also have a big say in things, I think the top 2 places have already been taken.

13 Apr 2017 16:46:48
MK, I love your optimism BUT catching Spurs will NOT happen. Remember, they play Bmouth this week and based on their form at home, that's a win. We may win or draw or lose to WB and they also have a game in hand on us vs CP so it ain't going to happen, as much as I want it to regardless of their run in.

On the contrary, they will be the ones doing us a favor as they play Utd and Arsenal at home in their run-in which if they win both and we win our games on those weekends, top 3/ 4 will be ours.

13 Apr 2017 17:35:57
You can get 750-1 on us winning the league still.

Just saying ;)

13 Apr 2017 18:57:18
I reckon that Spurs will win nearly all their games that are left and easy finish 2nd , its us that will find it hard, 3rd or 4th, hard to know, but we will know a lot more after the West Brom game, hope as someone has mentioned, that they are taking it easy now, but they will gie us a very difficult game, but a win and 3 big big points, with United maybe having a bad day, and it could be a Happy Easter after all .

13 Apr 2017 19:10:09
We can still win the league.

13 Apr 2017 19:06:53
Arsenal falling apart, United having to play City, Chelsea and Spurs. I think we actually might scrape through.

13 Apr 2017 19:09:49
Spurs are hard to beat and has been consistent through out. They won't slip up. They will beat the teams you mentioned MK. They have the best defense in the league moreover Poch is a terrific coach.

13 Apr 2017 19:34:35
With the way Spurs are playing, they're going to finish 2nd.
Considering that a number of the others are playing each other, 13-15 points should cling top 4.

13 Apr 2017 22:47:21
Being realistic Spurs need 10 points from their final seven games to finish above us, I can't see them not getting that.

14 Apr 2017 01:57:06
I don't know about second ML. I really respect what spurs are doing and they are in great form. they may drop points in the final straight, but I don't see them dropping so many that we could catch them.

but thinking about the race for 3rd and 4th we are obviously in the drivers seat and I hope that our players approach it that way. Like when city won their games in hand to overtake us for the prem. they knew what they had to do and then went out and did it. I remember watching that game when they beat villa in that heavy rain. that was a really impressive watch.

like others have said, this is all relevant if we don't take care of our own. BUT at the same time it is hard not to look at what the other teams are up to. manU have Chelsea next only 3 days after a game away in Anderlecht. then next week they have another 3 day turnaround after europa to play burnley away. I think they will have it toughest and gives a great chance to embed ourselves in the top4. let's go!

15 Apr 2017 07:31:45
Considering form against them it would be better if last 7 games were against top 7 sides.

13 Apr 2017 12:54:27
Very sad (but not overly surprised! ) not to see a single male Liverpool player on the PFA shortlists for POTY or YPOTY. Thought Couts might just have snuck in, but his time out and form dip didn't help.

Good luck to Caroline Weir for the female prizes as she's on both lists.

13 Apr 2017 13:05:07
Thought there pretty much wouldn't be a team in the league which wouldn't have loved to have mane this season! Is blatter involved? Lol.

13 Apr 2017 13:32:53
Wow! Can't believe I forgot Mané! Yep, agree with you there, he was more of a shoe-in that Couts, you would've thought!

13 Apr 2017 13:57:24
Don't care really. Couts was in the running for PFA Young Player of the Year last season, one where we finished 8th. If we get CL footie and no LFC player is short-listed then, I'll be okay with that.

13 Apr 2017 14:15:04
It's a team game. 🤠.

13 Apr 2017 16:50:55
Exactly, Ron. That is Klopp's mantra, as well and it is working for us, atm.

13 Apr 2017 08:02:42
So, as we enter into the final run in of the season, I can't help but feel we should be better placed than we are. Yes we are in the CL places which is great but we still have some tricky fixtures ahead.

If any of you get to watch the games live, you really do see how woefully poor we are at the back we are at times. I sit behind the goal 22 rows up so get a different view to the TV camera's.

Whilst we invested quite heavily in the team this summer, it still bemuses me as to the lack of quality investment at the back. Whilst Matip has been ok, we went cheap and opted for Klavan and moved Milner to LB ( not saying he hasn't played well there ) where as I feel we really should have tried to sign a real quality CB.

Whilst we might get into the CL, as it stands, with our current back 4 and strategy / attitude towards the defence, we will not win the Premier League and have zilch chance of progressing the latter stages of the Champions League.

I was fortunate and grew up watching our great teams of the 80's, solid at the back, ruthless going forward.

So come on Klopp and your team of scouts
and analysts, let's get this defence and keeper situation sorted, we are not that far away!

13 Apr 2017 09:35:21
I agree. a great defence set up wins you trophies ( except if you're Barcelona) .

13 Apr 2017 10:10:37
Nicky those 'tricky' fixtures are only tricky because we've been below par against 'lesser teams'. on paper it's the easiest run in and before our disastrous results against the bottom 4 we would have loved that run in!

I don't think we heavily invested the summer at all? Mane was the only one in that was a significant fee- the rest were below 5 mil which doesn't get you much these days. I think this summer where some decent investment will come now klopp has had a year and a half with the squad. Some improved dramatically, some haven't improved at all.

Hopefully we limit that to just a few key positions but go after first team quality players ( not to just thicken the squad)

13 Apr 2017 10:11:45
Spot on nicky

The goals we concede are goals which you see scored in sunday league games, its not like the opposition even have to work hard to get the goal.

Like you said priority this summer is sorting out the defence and maybe adding a similar player to mane to play on left.

13 Apr 2017 10:26:48
Sorry I forgot about wini, still want 'heavy' comparative to most top teams in the league.

13 Apr 2017 11:05:34
Swish mate, if you read my post you'll see I said "quite" heavily". Ball park figure before any fees etc would be around £65m which is a fair amount, especially when you take salairoes into account.

The reality is that Klopp has had three transfer windows to address the defence situation and it's not been done, we are no different to under Rodgers when it comes to defending! That's what cost is the title a couple of seasons ago and why we are 12 points from Chelsea.

There are 14 "lesser" teams in the league which makes up 70% of our fixtures. This has been going on since before Christmas and into 2017,.

Whilst there maybe significant funds made avalible to Klopp ( I don't know ) these critical positions need to be addressed.

13 Apr 2017 11:09:55
Maybe the heavy investment is waiting for CL football? Plus, we keep getting told that Liverpool has no cash and heavy debt?

13 Apr 2017 11:22:58
It's not just personell IMO. It's the way we play
Klopp's teams have never had a tight defence.
What we need is a leader/ organiser at the back and a top class keeper.
If we cut out goals from set pieces or the second ball from set pieces we will be a lot better. That doesn't require Franco Baresi, it requires better organisation and better training.

13 Apr 2017 11:34:58
Agree Nicky on the positions. Defence and keeper would be first things on the shipping list. , I'm just saying compared to most team we're up against it's not a big amount. The two that make up most of it were a success: 'mane and wini. By lesser teams I mean basically bottom half but as I said at the beginning of the season we would have rejoiced at that! Certainly wouldn't want to be man utd chasing top 4 having to play chelsea, city, Arsenal and Spurs I think. Hopefully the stoke game was a mental change for us and we can put those games to bed like we should be!

13 Apr 2017 14:33:24
Ron, Klopp won the Bundesliga with the best defence (34 conceded) in '11/ 12 season so what you say is not totally valid regarding the way we play.

Nicky, your post make some valid points. We are where we are cos that is what we deserve. We have not shown the right approach to these games cos we simply are not willing to work as hard as we do in the bigger games, to get a result. It is a mindset issue and not a personel issue as such cos we have won 18 games this season and only 6 of them came vs the top 6. The others came from beating lesser teams so let's just chill out with the "unable to beat lesser teams" narrative.

Same with the defence, the goals we concede are comical. This is due to an inconsistent lineup in defence, lack of communication and complete complacency in critical defensive situations a la set pieces. 95% of the goals we have conceded this season can be attributed to an individual error or a collection of individual errors. That is not systems-related. It is related to individuals not being focused and showing grit. This is why we look clueless and do not attack second or third balls. We are NOT switched on for the full length of defensive sequences. We seem to relax as soon as the first ball is dealt with.

We can change players till the cows come home. If they lack the mental toughness, steel and focus, the issue will keep happening.

13 Apr 2017 15:36:04
Good post but I don't know how much of a better position we could realistically hope to be in? We are 3rd having played everyone in the top 7 home and away, with only 6 games to go against (with all due respect) teams we should be beating comfortably.

Before the season I'd have taken 4th place. Now we have a chance to maybe push on and finish in the top 2!

13 Apr 2017 16:51:59
Spot on, MK. We are where we are cos we deserve it.

15 Apr 2017 07:38:19
Funny thing is you can go back before Klopp into previos regimes and see that beating the bottom teams has been the problem for years. Getting something against the top sides has been happening but the title winners are getting more against the bottom sides than we are.

13 Apr 2017 01:55:10
A question for Eds, not Liverpool related.

How do you view the treatment of the Dortmund first team in terms of the 'postponement' of the game vs. Monaco? Of course they argue that the schedule is tight as it is but it seems to me that it was more for the convenience of sponsors. I am aware that there is a lot of money invested in the CL but there was no apparent acknowledgement that they were dealing with humans.

To me, it was as though they didn't care which Dortmund turned up, just that they'd appear on TV, preferably with 11 players. I'm not even sure that they wanted to postpone it at all.

{Ed001's Note - you have lost me. Dortmund were the ones who were against a postponement. A postponed game has always just been played the next day, ask Man City.}

13 Apr 2017 09:54:13
Tuchel has stated that the team were not consulted when deciding when to play the game, and thaat the decision was taken in Switzerland.

{Ed001's Note - yes but the precedent had been set so there was no need. Everyone knew the deal and it was Dortmund opposed to postponing things at all. Tuchel is just looking for excuses before the game kicks off. Poor management again from a man who is fast getting a reputation for it. He always tries to be too clever and it cost them last night.}

13 Apr 2017 12:08:08
Sounds like he'd be a perfect replacement for Wenger! 😏.

13 Apr 2017 14:20:12
He wouldn't be complaining had they won.
He should keep is mouth shut and be thankful no-one got seriously hurt. What's more important?

13 Apr 2017 15:06:55
Spot on, Ed. it seems he tries to outsmart everyone and he ends up outsmarting himself. Same thing he did in the EL tie with LFC last season. Klopp was able to change his tactics and he just kept doing the same thing and he got punished for it. I guess he's still doing the same thing.

12 Apr 2017 23:34:00
Anyone got any details on the release dates for the 17/ 18 kits at all?