Liverpool Banter Archive May 13 2016

13 May 2016 22:37:38
So I've been deliberating the Benteke situation for quite some time. Obviously he retains most of his value we initially spent on him which leads him to seem like an obvious cull come the summer.

However, I've noticed a few fans mention they have seen something different in benteke since his injury and I mostly agree. Yes his pressing and closing down game is still not where it should be but all in all I believe his contribution to the team, mostly as an impact sub, has been to the level I initially believed he would perform.

13 May 2016 22:24:16
Any thoughts on who klopp is after upfront? He has a great eye for bringing cheap strikers in and making them world class. Am expecting a surprise.

13 May 2016 22:45:14
We have 4 strikers for next season and that excludes Benteke ( Firmino included ) . Klopp plays with only one up top. I don't see it as any immediate priority.

14 May 2016 09:30:32
Well covered in that area, more concerned about the 'keeper situation.

13 May 2016 10:12:59
Hi Eds,

Apologies if this has been asked before but I'm interested in how you have such knowledge of transfers? I'm not doubting them as they are always on the money, just intrigued.

Cheers!

{Ed001's Note - by asking the right people.}

13 May 2016 20:55:36
Who cares where the eds get it it's top notch info no matter and highly appreciated!

13 May 2016 21:32:20
Okay. The truth is I have a crystal ball and relay the info.

13 May 2016 20:42:18
I've heard that Harry hands it over to ed001 after there annual 14th of February dinner, when they go back to the hotel to talk "Football".
Harry reckons that list gets ed001 more excited then the blue pill ever could! Lol.

Just having a little banter ed.

14 May 2016 16:39:46
Benny, I'm pleased you're finally able to open up and discuss the horrific incident with your ex and a sharp poker that culminated in you having a crystal ball.

*claps hands sympathetically*.

13 May 2016 17:12:55
To Adam and others (Re: Can debate continued)

1. Sacrificing an attacker if you bring In a CDM?
No you don't drop Hendrdson to the bench and play CDM-CAN in the middle - Better stability.

2. We don't need a CDM
yes we need one badly as we are a joke when teams press us. They find a football ground behind Can and Milner to run at Toure and Lovren.

3. Leicester city
Drinkwater and Kante are not CDM, Yes they aren't but Drinkwater is a fantastic dicilplined midfielder who reads the game brilliantly. ( Expect him to start alongside Dier for England in the euros )

More over their wide players in Albrighton and Mahrez forms a flat 4 men shape when the loose the possession unlike Coutinho and Firmino who are poor in tracking back.

5. Records
Teams who has a specific Defensive midfielder has won more trophies that the teams who hasn't.

6. Hazard show
You are yet again trading the victim and not the disease. Hazard is just a name who bypassed our misfiled. There are ronety who did that this season. We need to stop them finding the pace behind our Midfielders. Once there exist no space team would never run at you.

7. Klopp and Dortumnd

He payed a 2 men CM at Dortmund with Bender and Gundagon, Bender is positionally sound and a good reader of the game.

8. Other teams
From Matic to Eric Dier, They all are defensive minded midfielder who sit and protect the back 4. The best manager in the world Jose has never played a single football match without a DM.

Convulsion.

A team and its shape is determined by the central midfielder. He is the eyes of a manager through which he reads the game.

Thanks for the read.

13 May 2016 17:52:27
Ideally yes a team needs a CDM/ DLP etc. However, WE don't need to bring in someone specially do that. There are other ways to play the game.

Defense is a team effort. Our players need to know when to bomb forward and when to be wary of possible counter attack and not to play wrong passes in positions where it could compromise our defense. All this will come in time and Klopp as you would know emphasizes on this quite a bit

Also:

Are you saying Hendo to be dropped to the bench?

Firminho and Coutinho not tracking back? Both of them track back more often then not.

13 May 2016 18:03:34
Think you will enjoy watching belgium, there midfield is very effective without a cdm. I would guess personally that the plan is to have hendo and can develop into better players than they are. We can't just sign new players all the time we need to develop existing ones particularly when our GK and LB and even CB with sakho banned are more pressing concerns.

13 May 2016 18:07:23
I guarantee you that drinkwater will not start for England. He is a decent player made to look very good because he has an exceptional player playing "either side of him"

13 May 2016 18:51:51
To all above

You don't need a Specific CDM if your current midfielders are disciplined, positionally sound, Read the game well and could put in decent tackles.
Hence we should look to buy one.

13 May 2016 20:17:57
Have a day off will you Harry. Your going to start frothing at the mouth in a minute mate. I don't want cause of death on your autopsy to read liverpoolrumours. co. uk.

13 May 2016 20:45:23
It is true that cdm has been standard in most teams since Makeleles days. But what is the way forward? My view is that all positions will evolve to reqiuire more and more dynamic players. Actually the last couple of positions where less dynamic players can get a carreer at the very top is CD and CDM. Wingers nees to press, fullbacks get forward and so on. Why should CDM and CD be the exception to that rule?

Can and Hendo are quite well suited to be part of this development, although not perfect. Think they both need to work on their positioning in defence for example.

True winners start trends, they don't follow them. Klopp started Gegenpressing, lookout for CD:s taking part in attacks rather than standing on the halfway line, and CDM:s and AM:s swapping roles in attack and so on. Seen some of it with Milner defending as a CM/ CDM and getting forward as a winger.

Totaalvoetball+Gegenpressing= Glory 'round the fields of Anfield Road again.

13 May 2016 21:09:23
Convulsion? Jesus mate calm down. Go see your GP!

13 May 2016 21:46:49
Just to add btw, Matic doesn't sit. He gets up and down the pitch breaking up play at every opportunity.

Dier does sit, but only because Spurs fullbacks are so useless. Ed001 did an excellent piece on this so I won't re-write it. If this wasn't the case I'm sure Dembele would probably have a more capable ball player alongside him such as Bentaleb.

You adjust to suit your own squad. Whilst our full backs are bad, even they aren't as defensively pathetic as Walker and Rose!

Andy Thorne hit the nail on the head. Football changes constantly. Barcelona and Bayern Munich have fallen behind in European football because of this obsession with playing a certain way. They still have the quality to dominate in their respective (and virtually non-competitive) leagues. However in a head to head match, Athletico and Real Madrid as well as Juventus, PSG and Dortmund are all creeping up on them. They have a lower quality of players yet they have adapted to get around that so that in an isolated 90 minutes they can turn the tables and win. Gabi and Niguez aren't what I would consider to be holding midfielders. But they work incredibly hard to physically dominate and overpower opposition players and grind out results. Sound familiar? It should do because Leicester just won the Prem doing the same thing. Drinkwater hasn't got the ability of Yaya and Kante isn't as physically dominant as Matic. But they both bust their balls every game. Something Can and Henderson both do. I will argue this with you till death do us part buddy because Henderson and Can are (in my opinion) 2 of our best players. I cannot understand why people don't rate Henderson. I suppose that's why I disagree with a fair few people on this. The only player in the prem I'd swap him for is Dembele and The only player I'd swap Can for is Kante. Let's not forget btw that Can and Milner got us through the Europa league quarter and semi finals. Dortmund and Villareal are not poor sides either.

It doesn't matter regardless of who is right or wrong. Football would be boring if the answers to winning were easy enough for armchair managers like me and you to solve all the problems. At the end of the day, you take each game one at a time and usually, the team that works the hardest will win as long as they have a bit of quality. Leicester have just proven that wou don't need world beaters. You just need hard workers and a couple of game changers. Mahrez and Vardy win the games, the other 9 players work their socks off to make sure they don't lose. If they can do it with Huth, Simpson and Morgan at the back then we can do it with Can and Henderson in midfield!

Sorry for going on at you, I just get really passionately angry when I see some of our hardest working and best quality players get slaughtered. Hendo is current captain. Can is a future captain. Klopp thinks Stewart and Milner are good enough also, irrespective of what you or I think. I just happen to agree with the boss man.

13 May 2016 22:38:12
More like the death report after our autopsies from Harry's. analysis.

13 May 2016 22:40:14
That is ok Adam. I do not slaughter any players. I point outs mistakes in them when they keep repeating it. Unless and until you don't take out the mistakes you would never progress.

13 May 2016 11:52:55
Ed001/ Benny Baller, I'm having a bit of trouble with my payment or donation on the website so was wondering, ED001 name me the charity of your choice go on any one do it and i'll pay up what I would have given you if the payment was being processed. Charity of your choice lad/ s, not the most money but sure to make a difference go on tell me go on.

{Ed001's Note - Clare House in Liverpool please.}

13 May 2016 18:03:21
Ok ed sorry I couldn't get the money to you mate but it's good to see you've more than enough now to help you out of your situation bud. One more well done to Benny Baller for setting up the funded and best of luck with your upcoming move and marriage skr.

{Ed001's Note - thats ok, the charity is a great idea.}

13 May 2016 21:37:15
Don't thank me. I'm just helping a friend. thank the legends who donated to help.
I was going to read off all the names of those who donated, but it literally got to many to keep track off.
I just hope he doesn't blow it all on his obsession with naughty phone calls.

13 May 2016 14:34:25
Hi ed, There report bayern Nutritionist Mona Nemmer and fitness coach Andreas Kornmayer to join liverpool any true?

{Ed002's Note - Yes there has been a press release about Nemmer. Kornmayer was announced a month or so back.}

13 May 2016 14:17:47
So the news coming out today is that despite offering him a new contract Rossiter is in Glasgow to finalise a deal to Rangers. Not sure how I feel about this. He hasn't made the impact other youngsters have and especially with Stewart performing well in midfield. Can't help but feel sad to see a local lad go and also the fact the Stewart (despite his obvious progress) is a few years older maybe Rossiter should've stayed and gone on loan. Thoughts guys?

13 May 2016 16:42:35
At their age if we can't offer youngsters a fair run in the first team then we have to let them go so that they an develop their game elsewhere.

We have to look after them and try to maintain a good relationship, so that in case they turn our to be real good then they would still consider returning to Liverpool as their first choice.

At the end of the day its their livelihood and career we are talking about. If we can't offer them what they want then we should guide them to clubs where they can get opportunities. No need for any hard feelings!

Teixeira is a case in point. What are we doing there I don't know, he has to be sold to a good club this summer.

Question for Ed's : why don't we put a buy back clause on our youngsters when we sell them?

{Ed002's Note - Because most clubs won't want to buy them and the price would reduce.}

13 May 2016 17:27:55
Not that good though is he. Be a good opportunity for the lad.

13 May 2016 19:24:42
Rangers man usually read the site but joined today to find out about young lad Rossiter surely the lads top class debut with pool at 17 came through England from under 16s what's the verdict would you'se have kept him? looks like we have a steal.
Ps
Glad with Hillsboro result we had a disaster with 66 fans ourselves but not because of inept police, youngest fan to die was was nigel Patrick pickup from Liverpool 8 years old, we equalised v celtic in injury time and fans tried to get back up stairs when all leaving and the volume of fans going down stair barriers broke made the crush lost an uncle, Kenny dalglish used to stand there ( Rangers daft as a lad )

13 May 2016 14:01:15
Rossiter to rangers for £250,000 thought he was highly rated?

13 May 2016 18:15:22
That's the fee for out of contract academy players. It has nothing to do with how well or not he`s rated.

13 May 2016 13:56:02
Hi Ed002,

A while back your opinion was asked on who you would buy for liverpool and you mentioned Ousmane Dembele for winger who I had not heard of at the time but after looking into more was an absolute cracking choice in my opinion.

Just wondering, since Dembele is on his way to Dortmund, could you give another choice for the winger position that would really suit Liverpool.

Doesn't necessary have to have Liverpool interest at this moment but if Liverpool were to show interest, would have a realistic chance on getting something done.

{Ed002's Note - Vaclav Cerny, Bilal Boutobba or Andrija Zivkovic.}

13 May 2016 15:46:39
(runs straight to google) I happen to be very familiar with the Dutch u21 League and can tell you that (checks spelling) Vaclav Cerny is someone who I've had my eye on for a long time. Think of him as a cross between Stanley Mathews, George Best and Cristiano Ronaldo, but better of course.

Cheers Ed, three left footed right wingers, It will be interesting to see where they end up over the next few years.

13 May 2016 16:30:00
Heard good things about Zivkovic. Thought he was a striker though?

Never heard of the other 2 lads though haha!

{Ed002's Note - No, he is a winger.}

13 May 2016 17:21:04
I trust you Ed002. Only ever seen highlights of him. Either way, looks a good young player. Probably got a bright future wherever he ends up.

13 May 2016 11:42:36
As the Gotze rumour mill begins, and we start to be linked to him more and more, I've noticed a few posters saying they wouldn't want him at the club, for various reasons such as blocking youngsters/ bad attitude/ drop off in form etc

But I personally would love him here, and would rather get him than a winger. In my opinion buying a winger would block Ibe/ Ojo more than buying Gotze would. Gotze can play on the wing, but if we wanted more width we could always bring on Ojo or Ibe. If we bought a wide player, then they would do a similar job as our youngsters, and just be a slightly better version perhaps.

Gotze is clearly a quality player, but also can press as displayed at Dortmund and Klopp could potentially get him playing at his best again. We already have Coutinho, Firmino and Lallana, but in my opinion Gotze could improve us a lot as a team. He also could be available for around 20 million, which I believe would be good business, and not too pricey considering what he has already achieved.

Sorry for the long post, would be interested to hear the Ed's views on Gotze, as well as other posters of course.

{Ed002's Note - Try the search engine.}

13 May 2016 12:07:48
Wouldn't say no myself, however, if buying him meant there wasn't the funds to buy a keeper or a left back then I would say no.
Was it last summer we bought benteke then had no money for a new keeper?
As long as the priorities are sorted first then it's a yes from me, I do suspect he's only being linked due to Klopp though so not holding my breath over this one.

13 May 2016 12:22:37
I read a post before that stated that FSG did not want to spend much money in the last summer transfer window as they wanted to replace the manager but were willing to wait till the right person (Klopp) made there decision, so they kept Rodgers in temporarily and did not want to waste money on players a new manager wouldn't want. Not sure how correct this is but its what I read.

{Ed002's Note - It is nonsense.}

13 May 2016 12:24:05
If you haven't seen how ineffective having number 10s out wide this season has been in many matches, you haven't been watching closely enough. We don't need another number 10 type (unless one leaves), we need the type of player why [gotze] can't get a game at bayern (costa, robben, coman, ribery) . and ibe and ojo are not the answer.

13 May 2016 12:57:05
The Eds say Barcelona have had another look at coutinho, and tbh it seems like there is an ongoing risk that if he has more than six great games in a row they will make a move for him in the following window- just as Real might move for Moreno if he ever develops into the top lb he could become.
So if we do sign him, gotze might end up being a replacement, not an extra no 10.
I think if we do sign gotze, klopp will still be looking for a more recognised wide forward player anyway.

{Ed002's Note - Clubs look at players all of the time. It doesn't mean replacements are purchased just in case.}

13 May 2016 12:58:30
I'd be lieing if I said I knew enough about him to comment about whether he's right for us or not but I would prefer a natural wide player to a central one. I'll just have to trust Klopp on this one.

13 May 2016 12:59:43
Hey ed002, is it not true that chelsea have now become favourites to sign goetze? How do you rate him as a player?

{Ed002's Note - Is that what it is saying on Twitter? Someone said earlier that he is 21 to 1 to sign for Chelsea on a betting site so that seems to unlikely reflect them as "favourites". As a player there are issues and his form has droped off significantly - hence why Bayern Munich are willing to let him leave.}

13 May 2016 13:14:37
I think Ibe is likely to leave, either on loan or permanently and Ojo is a little young for that kind of responsibility.

13 May 2016 13:24:10
If you think ( As many do) that Coutinho is better on the left, and Lallana is more of a winger than a CAM, then we only really have Firmino as a central playmaker, not saying this position desperately needs additions, but it certainly is not as clogged up as you might think.

13 May 2016 15:15:09
I agree with smithy, the first problem with signing goetze before he has even kicked a ball is that we would have 4 number 10's at the club. One of them would surely have to leave to accommodate him and who knows if he's going to be as good as any of them. The likelihood is that he would be an upgrade on lallana but lallana seems to be fitting into the squad more and more. Who knows, after a proper pre season he might turn out to be one of our better players next season. The other problem is that we simply don't need another number 10. The ones we have already are good enough with maybe the slight exception to lallana. Coutinho and firmino are better than him at the moment. And if coutinho was to move this summer (which I sure as hell hope not) goetze wouldn't be the best replacement.

We need wingers, and as smithy said ojo and ibe are simply not ready or not good enough at this stage. Ibe and ojo need loans at the moment. With markovic coming back, I would buy another quality winger and we would have at least two decent wingers that can play at this level. 2 wingers, 3 attacking midfielders and Milner all can play in that front 3 behind the striker. Goetze would simply be a luxury signing that might not even work out.

13 May 2016 18:17:27
We don't need him. We have issues elsewhere in the squad.

13 May 2016 10:45:03
Ed002, apologies in advance as this has nothing to do with Liverpool, but can you offer any insight into the departure of Quique Sanchez Flores from Watford? I don't think you guys have a Watford page, I personally think he and the Watford team have been fairly solid for a newly promoted team.

Cheers.

{Ed002's Note - It has been known for some weeks that this was going to happen with a preferred replacement already identified. It was not a shock to me or the QSF for that matter. It was also nothing really to do with how solid the team has been nor specifically the recent drop off in form.}

13 May 2016 12:54:22
Just curious who is his Replacement going to be?

{Ed002's Note - Walter Mazzarri.}

13 May 2016 04:37:40
With regards to Can discussion the page. I do not think we need to have a CDM for every game. Our strategy has to change according to the opposition. For most games 2 box to box midfielders should suffice: Can and Hendo. Grujic can also play the role.

When we need alternatives then Lucas and Stewart can provide defensive cover.

I have come to realize that defense is all about being aware and positioning. Plus the entire team needs to close down on the opposition team. As Klopp says it we lose the ball when all of our players are forward then it will always cause problems. YhisThis is what was happening in the Chelsea game. We were sloppy in possession.

13 May 2016 10:22:37
I agree with some of this but, for one thing, you don't mention the goals we concede at set-pieces when we are usually out-muscled by the opposition.

The facts are these:- the last season that we played with a CDM (Mascherano) we conceded 35 goals. Since then we have conceded 44,40,43,50,48 and 49 (with one game to go) .

We have tried to convert various people into CDM's (Leiva, Gerrard, Allen) but it hasn't worked and with stats like these it's easy to see why we have been mostly a mid-table side for the last few years.

Just a personal view but a system that relies on attacking full backs for width desperately needs a physically imposing CDM and I see this as number one priority, though having a goalkeeper of Premiership standard would also be welcome.

13 May 2016 11:00:46
Ritters, think u might be failing to mention that in his last season there was also Pepe in goal, Agger and Carragher were in defence and did a pretty good job, have a look at the squad we had then and it was more than 1 player, don't get me wrong I'd love to have someone of Mach's ability here now, but he is not the only reason we conceded 35 in 09/ 10. That's a serious twisting of stats of bud.

13 May 2016 11:38:29
I hate it when people come out with these stats. Lowest goals conceded in 09/ 10 so therefore we must need a CDM.
You do realise we finished 7th that year. In 13/ 14 when we finished 2nd we conceded 50. I know which one I would prefer.

Its never all about 1 thing. How many you score, how many you concede etc its about everything all coming together as a team. If we play more consistently and stop making individual errors then we'll have a shout.

13 May 2016 12:16:38
Ritter's how many have Leicester conceded this year with a back 4 of Simpson, Morgan, Huth and Fuchs?

How many times did they play Inler?

Kante and Drinkwater are proof that pressing the opposition with high intensity for 90 minutes is just as effective as keeping a good shape and letting a guy like Alonso or Busquets nick possession back on the edge of your area. Winning the ball back higher up the pitch is always a better tactic than inviting pressure onto yourselves with a more defensive set up.

As the old saying goes, "the best form of defence is attack".

13 May 2016 06:08:16
A CDM alongside Can would bring a stability and balance to the team. But remember Klopp prefers 2 CM, 3 Attackers and 1 Striker.
So if you play a CDM - Can in the middle, you will then have to drop Henderson to the bench. ( People will then Scream at Klopp )

13 May 2016 08:07:39
Not sure what your point is. but if your B2B players are not disciplined how would you make a shape and reduce the gap in the midfield?
Y does Chelsea always play one of Matic ot Mikel in their midfield. Y does Poch plays Dier in that middle?

14 May 2016 03:58:40
What did Spurs or Chelsea win with those system this year? The idea is one stays back while other pushed forward. As long as one covers you don't need a dedicated cdm unless you want to play on the break.