Liverpool Banter Archive September 15 2015

15 Sep 2015 21:57:23
{Ed033's Note - Latest Football Rumours Podcast discussing the Liverpool vs Manchester United 1-3 match at Old Trafford on 12 Sep 2015.

15 Sep 2015 19:30:29
Good evening,

I am just interested to know everyone's opinion on where our current squad would rank on paper compared to other teams in the premier league.

If all players were fit and performing to the highest standard I believe we would rank 4th behind city, Chelsea and arsenal.

What does everyone think?

Cheers

15 Sep 2015 20:02:06
Hard to do when they are not being put in the best conditions to succeed hence, hard to evaluate

15 Sep 2015 20:29:48
Keepers:
1st - Courtois
2nd - De Gea
3rd - Hart
4th - Cech
5th- Lloris
6th - Mignolet

So, our keeper (IMO opinion) is 6th best and arguably the most important member of a strong spine isn't even in the top 4.

Not a good start on paper

15 Sep 2015 20:30:48
It's extremely hard to call between united and us, the three you mention - yes. Who ever has the better manager will finish forth. So obviously that will be united.

15 Sep 2015 21:06:25
Hart is by far the best keeper in the league.

{Ed001's Note - in which league? Because he is not even close in the Prem, though defo ahead of Migs.}

15 Sep 2015 21:18:10
De Gea is the best in the PL, hands down. The guy pretty much dragged Utd to the CL on the back of points-winning saves and performances. Hart? You must be joking.

15 Sep 2015 21:34:30
Cech should be the second best behind anyone. He is a complete keeper

15 Sep 2015 21:34:53
i'd say how about taking couthino out of the team and where would we belong in the prem ,has good as sturridge is he has to be on the field to play football and there is no way we would get 3 full seasons out of him , so i would not count him in a bit like enrique

15 Sep 2015 21:54:35
Ddg is the best in my opinion. Cech and Lloris would be above Hart also. Begovic would also be well up there, at least ahead of Mignolet.

15 Sep 2015 21:55:09
Im not sure how to decide the best, de gea has had a poor season and a great one, Courtois had one mixed one, lloris has had a few good ones, cech has had many great ones.
I'd also argue that possibly begovic, and maybe even Forster butland Howard foster Guzan etc may all be considered better than mignolet by their supporters

15 Sep 2015 22:06:45
How about Begovic! I'd say he was ahead of Migs.

15 Sep 2015 22:13:29
Mignolet is the worst keeper we ever had .hes not in top15 in prem .cant kick throw or even roll the ball out worst distribution I've ever seen the only time he touches the ball is top pick it up out the net .but he still has more touches than all of our front 3 . Terrible keeper

15 Sep 2015 23:56:57
Migs is defo not even in the top 6 keepers in the premier league. I rate Adrian and pantilamon along with the others mentioned above him.

15 Sep 2015 23:26:24
He ain't the worst mate.

16 Sep 2015 00:16:54
De Gea should have won player of the season, Hazards a good player but it just affirmed the idea Britain fawns over attackers more than defensive players when Chelsea's title win was founded upon their defense and Matic. De Gea single handedly (well double, technically) took United into the top four and probably won them half their games in all competitions. All of those three deserved it ahead of Hazard.

16 Sep 2015 05:03:48
Fraser forster, Hugo lloris, De Gea, Courtois, krul, Howard, Guzan just about ever keeper is as good as or better than Mignolet here.

16 Sep 2015 09:23:24
Hart is just about okay IMO. If he wasn't English, nobody would be using him as an example and his many mistakes would have been more highlighted.

15 Sep 2015 14:18:21
Controversial post.
But I'm wondering what the majority of football fans think towards a topic that has popped up over the past couple of years at our club.
Is the image of the club more important than having a good team ?
We are mediocre now. Mid table team with mid table player and a mid table manager. The only thing we match the top teams with is the size of the club and the money we spend on transfers and wages.
With Suarez we had problems, he was banned all the time and was in the public eye for all the wrong reasons. Sterling caught on holiday doing all sorts and demanding massive wages. But we were winning, teams was scared to play against Liverpool football club.
Now the only thing dragging the name of the club through the dirt is the football itself.
I'd be happy for any troublesome player to be playing for us aslong as we kicked on up the league again. I crave success. I don't care for this false 'image' argument. We should be winning games and if everyone hates us (media, other fans),, then what's new?

15 Sep 2015 15:40:51
How have we got mediocre players? We've got a good squad of players, we've got cover for most positions. I'm personally pretty happy with our squad, there are a couple of positions I'd look at ie goal keeper and cb, but no way have we got average players.
Our problem is BR either isn't explaining what he wants the players to do or he doesn't know him self, the players have all looked lost on the pitch, we've got a player for each position yet he keeps insisting on playing most of them in a different position, yeah they can do a job there but y settle for a player doing a job when you can play a player who knows the position. How are any of the players meant to play to their ability if they're not even playing their own position.
Ings coming off the wing, why? He should've played a diamond with Ings and benteke with firmino just behind.
I honestly loved watching our style of play when sterling Suarez and studg played, fast pace high press attacking football. The players played their own positions mostly.
Any manager can only use the players he has, it's his job to put them where they need to be and drill the style he wants.
Rodgers doesn't seem to know what he wants the players to do himself.
I don't care what our manager is called don't care what experience he has, I want a manager that is passionate about the game, can transfer his passion to the players drill them to a fast attacking style of play, we have the squad for it, that manager isn't Rodgers, I supported him for the last 3 years, I wanted him to work out, but the team looks completely lost on the pitch.
But I'm not going to start ranting over it, I'm not going to start blaming this player and that. I want LFC to play decent football, stop wasting money and use the players in the right position, I just hope that it either turns around for Rodgers, he wakes up one morning very soon and the fog is lifted and he stops believing he can make any system work with the wrong players, or I hope the board have a plan b in place b4 we slip too far behind.

Sorry for long post got carried away

15 Sep 2015 16:42:42
Lifelong

Bit curious on this. How does a diamond ( narrow formation ) helps Benteke ( the loan striker )?

His system was perfect in playing two wide wing backs to run high up when we break up. But choose wrong players

IBe and Firmino either side of Benteke would have done the job.

Our only goal came from a winger providing the assist.

15 Sep 2015 17:02:03
A diamond would naturally imply that there will be a striker alongside Benteke, Harry. Surely you can't be this ignorant.

15 Sep 2015 17:30:09
We've got mediocre players

15 Sep 2015 17:31:21
AG

So Benteke is missing a striker? Now that's really worrying for me as all my tears I learned a lone striker who is known for his physicality and not his mobility to make clever runs need wide players more than his wife to d ore goals.

Play two wide players either side of Benteke and ask them hit byline ( direct players ) and cut back in to the six yard box. Benteke will score plenty.

A diamond will work when you have strikers like Suarez / Aguero / lacazzate / Vieto / Walcott who are mobile enough to either draw players out or find those little gaps between defenders.

An additional striker might not lift Benteke IMO. But a winger ll bring goals for him.

15 Sep 2015 17:33:16
And how does Ings benefit playing off Benteke? He is traditional Center forward and not a striker who is known to burry those chances rather than setting up.

Playing Ings off Benteje will results in nothing other than confusion among them for taking the positions.

{Ed001's Note - how would it create confusion? Ings played off a big man for Burnley. Do you just make stuff up in your head to talk about?}

15 Sep 2015 17:47:18
Unless I've missed something a diamond is 4 defenders, 1 cdm a midfielder wide right a midfielder wide left and a cam.
Then TWO strikers.
Lb and rb get forward to get crosses in, play firmino in his position which is just behind TWO STRIKERS. Play the players in their positions.

15 Sep 2015 18:32:13
The fact remains, our players ARE mediocre. How many are world class? How many would walk into Chelsea or City's first eleven?

15 Sep 2015 18:43:17
Plus with a diamond you can have Moreno and clyne chucking in crosses when forward and Milner and whoever is on the left can chuck a couple in as well.

15 Sep 2015 18:52:22
EG, playin a classic or diamond version of the 442 will ensure that there is a striker next to Big Ben just like the diamond 442 worked with Studge next to Suarez. We know it works because we have seen it work so don`t know why you`re asking this question. Btw, Juve played a diamond 442 last season and look how Morata and Tevez ripped teams appart. Clear enough for you?

15 Sep 2015 18:59:31
Lol Harry, AG's just had your pants down lad.

15 Sep 2015 19:12:10
Ron, there's a pretty big area between 'world class' and mediocre. Unless you think everyone in world football bar those up for a Ballon d'Or are mediocre?

We have a few players who are maybe a level below world class, but far from mediocre, and I can't really think of too many who are actually mediocre, although again I guess it depends on your definition of mediocre.

15 Sep 2015 19:17:08
I never talked about a lone striker or any of the other delusion you came up with Harry, but just pointing out the very obvious flaw in your argument. But I know I am fighting a losing cause with you. Ings and Benteke would cause confusion? Which planet are you from man?

Ron, I see now that you have changed your tune. Anything to NOT blame Rodgers eh? If our players are "mediocre", what do you think that makes Rodgers?

15 Sep 2015 19:31:06
Oh dear Harry I think ed001 was right about monkeys and typewriters.

15 Sep 2015 19:36:21
Also, we scored only once, Harry? We have scored 3 goals this season, one was a worldie from Coutinho, and two were from a corner routine, Benteke offside goal and the Benteke worldie. Unless of course you mean we only scored once against Utd. But the you also said Firmino should have played as on the side of Benetke as a wide player, which HE DID against UTD and has been for every game he has played for LFC so far! Again, how are you not seeing this?

Finally, you have spend the last few months telling us all how players with pace will only work well as wingers, and now you want Firmino to play out wide and ping in crosses for Benteke who you want to play as a "loan" striker? I ask again, can you see the flaw in your arguments?

15 Sep 2015 19:42:58
Well I am so eager to see how would the diamond works with Benteke.

You don't need a diamond to ask your full back to push.
You full backs press high for city who never plays diamond. It's your tactics to play high with a top class DM holding.

Full backs going high and crossing has nothing to do with diamond.

15 Sep 2015 19:57:11
Why deflect a discussion about players into a slagging fest of Rodgers and anyone who doesn't hate him?
Stick to the discussion.
I'm not the only one who thinks our players are mediocre, if you think about it you know it's true.
Most of our players were signed directly from mediocre teams. Hardly any of them would get into a top 4 side.
I can only think of Sturridge - when fit and Coutinho when he's in the mood.
Other than sometimes Coutinho and Sturridge I'd say they are mediocre.
Mediocre to me is defined as a player who does not excell in a particular area but performs at a decent level the majority of games.

15 Sep 2015 20:02:01
Harry, seriously, get someone who understands football to sense check your posts before you hit 'send'.

I know the Eds are only allowing them through so that you can confirm how little you know about the game!!

Remember, it was Mark Twain (look it up) who said:

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"

Think about it.

To the OP, agree with most comments here that we do not in any way have mediocre players, but unfortunately the manager is not using them to their strengths in the main, and you can say that from GK to CF.

15 Sep 2015 20:48:31
Zeddious

Lols man, other than agreeing everything what Ed01 says no matter what, did you ever had an opinion on the game? ( btw I love ed01 for reason beyond footie )

Are you trying to say for example you need to play a diamond every time to push your full Back high?

Now ed01 loves Biesla. People love Biesla. But Biesla plays 3 at the back which people doesn't like. confused or contradicted?

There is a match happening with city and Juventus. With your excellent knowledge on the game could tell me how city are set up and their formation.

A tip for you mate. They ain't playing diamond yet they had close to 4 crosses to Bony from the left flank from Korolov.

With Bony very similar to Benteke, he has no striker playing off but he has Stelring and Nasri on either side. while Mandzukic has Moratta playing off.

Figure out the difference between Moratta and Bony.

No offense mate.

If you are watching the match Ed01, City are in the same position as Liverpool were. Unable to break down Juventus.

{Ed001's Note - Liverpool haven't played Juve in ages, so how can that be so?}

15 Sep 2015 20:53:58
Seems a bizarre way to me to categorize players as that would make most everyone in world football mediocre nearly by definition I would think. I also don't see why where they came from is any sort of concern honestly- one of our better players recently came to us from Ajax, Hazard came from Lille, Kompany from Hamburg, Silva from Valencia, Matic from Benfica, etc, etc.

Whether they're 'good enough' for a top 4 side, I'd argue we finished 2nd with a good chunk of them, so yeah, they're good enough for a top 4 side. We overpaid for many of them, but by and large it's not a bad group of players, albeit the squad is pretty unbalanced and far too large for my liking, but those again all point back to the manager moreso.

15 Sep 2015 21:08:22
no mediocre players but you all moan over lovren an skrtl? or are they being played out of position? there is some crap there I won't name names we all have views

15 Sep 2015 21:10:33
It`s not deflecting, Ron. The poor players were bought by BR to the tune of 300m so if they suck, who`s fault is it that they are all here? You trash the players for being poor YET don`t wanna accept that it was your BFF who bought said poor players. You sound just like him, trashing the players in a bid to deflect from the fact that BR bought them. Get over it, bro! You`re embarassing yourself but then again, that is not new.

15 Sep 2015 21:26:57
Again, scouse john, depends on your definition of mediocre. To me, it means 'average', so say a side aiming for 10th-12th, and in the context of the PL I would personally say Skrtel and Lovren are both better than that. Not much mind, but a bit.

15 Sep 2015 21:28:50
Harry I said the full backs would push up to prove that crosses would be put in by them if we played a diamond.

Benteke is more than just a target man, he has pace power and ability.

Not being world class doesn't make you a mediocre player.
We have a good squad good enough to get top 4 at least.

Who ever is the manager now or future needs to play to our players strengths. We have players who should be causing teams problems when we attack, but for some reason they're not being played where they should.

What ever we all think LFC need to do something soon or we will slip further and further behind and end up with a new team every year

15 Sep 2015 21:46:06
Erm, Harry, again try thinking before you type.

I'm perfectly able to form my own opinion, and my opinion (based on dredging through many of your posts per day whilst reading through) is that you talk like an authority but say the most ludicrous and unfounded things! If you read above, you'll see a number of other regulars think the same!

As for diamond or not, I've said nothing about this.

15 Sep 2015 21:57:55
Harry I didn't realise that benteke was on 'loan' to be honest

15 Sep 2015 22:00:42
I have to say a big thanks to Harry, all his talk of korolov and stelring is making me nostalgic for the old ISS pro game with the made up names. Ahh good times. Thanks Harry!

15 Sep 2015 22:07:03
What has it got to do with Rodgers?
Every discussion you have to bring him into it. You're obsessed, it's unhealthy man, you need help to move on.

My question would be, were the players mediocre before they were bought? My answer would be "yes" therefore discussing who bought them has no relevance to whether they are mediocre or not. It's a seperate issue.

By the way I " agreed" with the original post that the players are mediocre. I didn't bring it up, I didn't call them "poor" and I didn't trash them, so please don't assign your prejudices to me.

16 Sep 2015 00:04:17
These people put mediocre players into a sentence trying to suggest our squad is mediocre. In my opinion it's not. I for one think it's a fairly strong Base of players. although the goal keeper position really needs to be looked at cause at the moment it's the weakest part of our squad.

16 Sep 2015 00:20:37
If you agree with the post, then you might as well have said it do your chicken crap game of nitpicking won't work. Prejudices? You're not that special. Again, you agreed that the players are poor, mediocre or whatever then I asked you, who bought these players here then? Now you're blaming me for bringing BR up. Why shouldn't I? You've spent all summer defending him even gloating on here when he was kept so now you wanna squirm your way around the simple question I asked as if the players you agree as mediocre signed or bought themselves. Face it! You cannot on one hand consider the players we have poor and then try to distance the very guy who brought them here from the blame. Just calling you out on your incoherent argument that is nothing but hogwash and I'll be here to call you out on them anytime you do it. Again, if our players are mediocre then the guy who signed them is (insert joke here).

16 Sep 2015 08:03:16
My late 2 penny's worth on the matter is that we have some great players, some average, some with the capability of day becoming what some would deem world class, but are all being misused to get the best out of them, think there is a good side in amongst it somewhere, do I believe Rodgers can get that together is another topic altogether but in short I don't see anything to any longer think it possible

15 Sep 2015 11:32:20
A thought.

During pre-season Rodgers made a comment along the lines of the team needing to be able to play both the "low block" and the "high press"

Does anyone think that once Allen, Lallana and Sturridge are fit we will revert to the latter?

The trio fit the high pressing system much better than the likes of Lucas, Ibe (who can adapt) and Benteke.

Combine that with Milner, Henderson and Firmino who most people will agree are individuals with boundless energy, and I think we will start seeing our "identity" come back.

15 Sep 2015 13:36:32
Are you suggesting that he will drop £32 million Benteke, £29 million Firmino and a central midfielder for Allen, Lallana and Sturridge? Sturridge should come in to the team, but no way should he be thinking of dropping Benteke yet.

15 Sep 2015 13:39:08
Sturridge doesn't fit the high press that well, neither does Allen as much as Henderson or Milner. Lallana does but so does firmino and coutinho demonstrated he can do it well against arsenal even though their back four basically handed it to us.

15 Sep 2015 13:39:08
even without the injuries we already have a team that can press.

15 Sep 2015 14:11:22
I can see why you might think that, but I don't believe it will happen.

I definitely think we'll go with a duo up top in Sturridge and Benteke, but it will probably be a 3-5-2 and play the same as last year.

15 Sep 2015 15:03:50
Let's be perfectly honest here, The 'High Press' worked because we had a player like Suarez who tortured teams with his relentless movement. (I think this is probably why Studge scored so many alongside him too) if you're going to 'Press' then you need to press from the front. We simply don't have that player now. I don't believe for a second that BR waved a magic wand and we were this high tempo Barca-esque team. It's purely down to what he inherited at the club. Namely Luis Suarez.

15 Sep 2015 15:55:58
I don't know who started it, but I never understood the actual meaning of high press and people crying loud out for it.

Swansea, Southampton. Arsenal teams that doesn't believe in high press instead they have a slow build up play and they play good football.

15 Sep 2015 16:50:40
Honestly think there's a fair chance he'll shift Sturridge wide (eventually- initially he'll sub for Benteke).

15 Sep 2015 14:11:09
I find it hillarious people are crying for the so called. "HIGH PRESS" Y are others perticularly Arsenal doesn't play the so called "HIGH PRESS"
Southampton and Swansea plays a slow build up football and has been very successful.

Are people confused with High Tempo and High press?
¨
where are they getting these words. ".High press. "

Could including Ed01, explain me what's wrong in Slow build up play if you could keep the ball well.

{Ed001's Note - Swansea do not play a slow build up, they shift it to the wingers quickly now. Not sure what that has to do with a press though. As for what is wrong with a slow build up, that is simple, it gives the opposition time to get in position.}

15 Sep 2015 18:44:35
Sturridge disagreed to being played out wide when Suarez was around, leading to Rodgers being forced to play the 4-4-2 diamond, though this time around, he appears even more rigid and seemingly want to stick with his favorite, but insipid 4-3-3 system. I am interested to see how this goes.

15 Sep 2015 18:57:29
Barca play the high press till this day for the success we now know of and so did we when we almost won the PL and when we went on that long unbeaten run last season (we crushed City playing that way) so we know it works, EG. Stop dragging other teams into this. N BTW, you must have never watched the Saints play because they play the high press and when we played them at St Mary`s, they pressed the living daylight out of us.

15 Sep 2015 19:09:03
Although he may not press as hard and fast as what Henderson and Milner do, I still feel Allen is the most intelligent presser in the squad. Saying that, and I agree slightly contradicting myself, I can see Allen being given the holding midfield role as if we do adopt the press, we need a player who can dictate play at the base. Although it may come across as slightly controversial, I feel Allen is actually the only playmaker in our side. Some may point to Coutinho but for me he is a "get the ball and create" player rather than actually understanding the game as such. That's not having a go at him because he is still our most influential player. But if we have a genuinely intelligent player behind him, who understands the game and is good on the ball, who unlike others I feel Allen is, I think the team would benefit. In the right system, where there is less space between the defenders and attackers, his small frame becomes less relevant and he can knit the play together.

And while I agree Sturridge is not the best presser, he does offer brilliant movement off the ball which is also a necessity of that pressing system.

Also to clarify on Firmino, my point was not to drop him. In actual fact I meant to say I think he can become a better player if we start pressing high than if we defend deep.

I agree we can't and won't drop Benteke nor should we based on his performances. I just meant to say, whilst his movement is adequate, I personally feel his best game is based on the ball coming into him rather than him going after the ball.

Cheers for all your replies.

15 Sep 2015 19:44:57
So what's the issue in keeping the ball at the feet Ed01?
They need a reason to bash him and ironically all they had wrong reason to bash a manager.

{Ed001's Note - what is this gibberish?}

15 Sep 2015 19:46:53
AG

For one last time there are around more than 50 top European clubs who plays the so called in effective 4-3-3 system with great in fact excellent success.

Another fact, the whole Italian teams last year played 3 at the back and they have some very good teams over there.

So don't bash someone because he plays 4-3-3. It's a tested and certified system.

15 Sep 2015 21:14:52
False, EG! AC Milan, Lazio, Roma, Samp, Inter, La Viola, Napoli, and Udinese and there are a lot more ( I watched all these teams play last season) and NONE of them played a 3-5-2. Even Juve, who have played a 3-5-2 since Conte, played a 442 diamond with Allegri. EG, you really need to stop making general statements because you sound like you`re just blowing hot air

15 Sep 2015 08:11:51
I have to admit that I am far from being imresses with what comes out of this new Gerrad's autobigoraphy (what number is it 2nd? 3rd? - there were times when people used to write just one towards the end of their life). Surely there are more to come after he quits from the MLS?

I know that in the twitter era maybe there is no point to moan about the need of celebrities to share with the world their personal opinion about every person they met in thier career. I still find it a bit tasteless and disrespectful at times especially towards players who played with him in the same team and some of them still play football.

It will also not do him any favours IMO if he wants in the future to be involved in coaching. As an owner I would think twice when I know everything that take place in the dressing room will go out in a year or two. And not that I am impressed with his tactical comments.

Shame - the man is a legend and was a fantastic player. Maybe he is looking for a career in the media as a pundit or something like that (though again I wasn't impressed with him as a pundit the once or twice I heard him).

There is actually one football related role which I think can really suit him but I will not say it because I don't think the eds will let me.

{Ed001's Note - he is not that keen on the punditry work mate, he wants to be a manager.}

15 Sep 2015 08:44:35
Why do you feel that way fan? You've obviously forgotten his years of loyal service. His wonderful grit and determination. His great service. And how he entertained us. I enjoy hearing his stories and insight. He was a phenomenon. And he still is our phenomenon. One day I hope he comes to manage us.

I agree that Rafa never really appreciated him. I always got that feeling. And I agree also that Mourinho would've been great for us. Our fans would've adored him and he us. And he would've got even more out of Stevie - if that were possible.

Please don't slag off a man who brought me years of pride and entertainment in our great red shirt.

15 Sep 2015 10:09:18
Not read his book and I won't. Not enough hours left in my life to read a footballers ghost written book of nonsense.
I agree players shouldn't write books and should do their talking on the pitch.
If they really do feel the need to write anything they should wait until they have finished playing and if they do actually have a decent story to tell, a Suarez book might be interesting for example.

15 Sep 2015 13:04:00
Ibra's was pretty good

15 Sep 2015 13:54:35
It is bizarre that Gerrard seems to be giving Benitez a slating when, arguably, he was playing his best football at that time. .

15 Sep 2015 16:54:18
For some reason I always pictured Gerrard becoming a pundit and Carragher as a manager. Honestly Gerrard just doesn't seem to have the right sort of temperament for managing for me as I think he's just far too moody whereas I think Carra would be a good manager (at least man management).

15 Sep 2015 18:28:43
It's all about selling books , I am not the only one saying that today either

{Ed001's Note - for the person saying about Ibra's book, I agree, excellent work of fiction. The author wrote it how he thought it should be and Ibra went mad at him until he explained what he had done and why. Ibra then thought it was hilarious and has been trying to play up to it ever since.}