Liverpool Banter Archive September 16 2015

16 Sep 2015 20:52:46
People saying that when you play Two up front you surrender the midfield to your opponent poppycock.

When we don't have the ball one of your two strikers sits on their holding midfield player so it stops attacks and also stops them using their holding player as an outlet when you press them , so not only is two up top offensive but is also your first line of defence.

People use to joke who was Liverpools best defender in the 80s Hansen OR Lawrenson and the answer was IAN RUSH because as soon as we lost the ball he would always make a beeline for their defensive midfielder and suffocate him so they couldn't get out he was effectively man marking him .

You can talk about formations all day and night but at the end of the day it is eleven against eleven and has always been this since football began in the late 1800s its a Team game .

Has anybody heard the old football saying

" A TEAM CAN PULL ONE MAN"
"BUT ONE MAN can't PULL A TEAM"

The best tactic or formation is the following (Bill Shanklys quote)

" WHEN WE HAVE THE BALL WE ALL ATTACK "

"WHEN WE don't HAVE THE BALL WE ALL DEFEND "

That principle applied years ago and will still apply in a thousand years , as the great man said frequently Football is the simplest game ever invented complicated by FOOLS.

A never say die attitude goes a hell of a long way also, and doesn't have to be coached ??? "

16 Sep 2015 21:15:34
Great post 007

16 Sep 2015 21:24:13
good post. To add it does't matter how many you have upfront if the don't supply and support

16 Sep 2015 23:10:08
Agree that players should support, but all the midfielders can't attack and both full backs shouldn't be forward together. We've had both problems in recent years, recently midfielders not getting up to support the forward and in the season we came second, all our players were up and we got hit on the counter too much

17 Sep 2015 00:22:01
Playing two up won City the PL two years ago. The 442 diamond didn't hinder Juve last season when they nearly won everything last season neither did it affect them yesterday vs City. People talk as if we've never played two up before and succeeded whereas we played two up and nearly won the PL and Paisley played a 442 diamond, per Ed01's info. If BR doesn't fancy it then that's another issue. But to think because BR doesn't fancy it then it must be a crap system is senseless because we have evidence that the system and playing two up in any case, works

17 Sep 2015 06:04:35
Redohio

You do realize we don't live in the Paisley era anymore.
Juventus winning everything last season with the diamond had some of the every best midfielders with them.
Pogba, Vidal / Marchisio and Pirlo is a genius when it comes to dictating the game from midfield.

We don't have those midfielder with us so we always end up adding another midfielder to make it solid.

Moreover where Re the wide players for this 4-4-2? You need genuine wingers for this formation.
I am sorry Lallana is not a winger.

{Ed001's Note - you do not need genuine wingers for a 4-4-2! Why do you not do your research and see when we won everything, playing in the main a variant of 4-4-2, we rarely had genuine wingers.}

17 Sep 2015 06:25:30
Ed01, Whom would play play out wide? IBe is an option and whose the other player?

{Ed001's Note - Coutinho plays his best when he is nominally on the left, so I would play him there. It gives him a lot more options. He just needs a left back with a left foot willing to overlap, rather than Gomez, much as I like him.}

17 Sep 2015 06:58:30
I would strongly disagree with it. He cuts inside and is pretty much a very central player.
Play him as the third midfielder. With our CM very poor in keeping the ball he would defo drop deep to pick up from the midfield.
Play two wide players either side of him.
And if I remember we played him out wide this season with Lallana playing centrally which did not work out.
I would have agreed with your views had we kept Markovic.

{Ed001's Note - how would Markovic make a difference? And yes of course he cuts inside, that is how he has scored all his goals for us. You can strongly disagree all you like, but it is when he has played at his best.}

17 Sep 2015 07:13:43
Countinho is at its best when he is given complete freedom on the ball and has no restrictions at all in his movement.
He takes the game in his own world and is so much important in the midfield.
Play him as the third midfielder and he would do the job hands down.
I would have played Markovic and Ibe either side of Benteke and asked them to do the job what Young did against us.
Use your pace and trickery to take the opposite full back, hit the byline and cut inside.
Combine and overlap with your full back and brings so much stability into our team.
Countinho is like another Mata who is not good protecting his own full back. Gomez / Moreno will be exposed

My view.

{Ed001's Note - every time he has been given complete freedom he ends up adding little. His best performances have been when he has been chasing back and tackling, as well as getting forward and supporting the attack. The minute he is given total freedom he can go missing.}

16 Sep 2015 17:56:00
I think tomorrow is going to be a 'bore though' :)

16 Sep 2015 18:35:49
With all the players he's leaving at home I fear that we aren't taking the comp seriously. I find this to be the wrong way to go about it, we are in a dire situation & the last thing we need is for Rodgers to throw players in, who on the most part he doesn't rate, and then to blame them when it all goes pear shaped.

16 Sep 2015 19:10:20
The "regulars" are struggling for form, understanding and cohesion and look like total strangers when they play together, why leave them back at this very early stage?

16 Sep 2015 19:16:11
If he plays people who didn't play at the weekend, we still have Sakho toure moreno Origi Lallana henderson coutinho, and I reckon ings, Ibe and a few others may get some game time, that should be enough to win the game.

16 Sep 2015 19:49:16
The issue is we have had 2 very bad results so why play the same players? Reward for playing badly? If we had played well then i would want to continue with the same team with only minor changes but we aint.

16 Sep 2015 19:53:43
Henderson is not fit.

16 Sep 2015 21:59:05
Brendan mentions in his press conference about being happy to be known as a manager with an "identity". Attack minded, possession based was the quote. In his 1st 3 seasons he had a philosophy of pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass. slow football. Only when he realsied halfway through the season that his job was on the line did he allow any kind of attack based play into his "identity". He has a very short memory that lad.

His identity is very obvious. waste money on players he won't play, halt the progress of youth team players, alienate
players to the extent that they leave the club, hang his coaches out to dry, players being shoe horned into positions that they clearly don't wanna be in.

Now to top it off he's not taking the Europa League serously at all. Sorry for the rant.

16 Sep 2015 23:25:04
I think the saying is

A team can carry one man, but one man cannot carry a team. Although Suarez throws that into doubt.

16 Sep 2015 17:11:07
As I said, just asking the question to see what others think.

{Ed002's Note - Please don't ask again.}

16 Sep 2015 09:02:47
Loan update,

Aberdeen extended their lead at the top of the spl to 5 points beating Hamilton 1-0.
Ward had a relatively easy night keeping a clean sheet and McLaughlin made his debut playing 75 minutes at right back.


Canos was an unused sub as Brentford lost 3-1 to middlesborough.

17 Sep 2015 00:16:17
Thanks Carra, great work as always.

16 Sep 2015 05:30:26
I think a English teams really need an English/British core. Preferably home grown.

I look at City and Man U, then Arsenal - not surprised at the limited recent European success.

Although we have some good English players, none are taking a leadership role. And I think Rossiter is the only Scouser in the 1st team, no?

You can buy the best talent but you can't buy commitment, hunger and passion.

I don't like it when we lose but if the players run themselves into the ground, at least I know they gave their all.

Let's take Carra for example. Not the most technically gifted but how many times have we seen him put his body on the line?

And then we look at a Lovren and how many times has he used his body to block anything?

Then we look at Bayern, Juventus, Barcelona - lots of home grown local players.

TV money is killing the English game. The 'best league in the world' . I'd rather we have a Pool team that cost a lot less but plays with way more heart.

16 Sep 2015 06:44:42
Pretty much all of what you say is unfeasible. Teams looks to buy the best players available that can fit into the system. Would you rather the English teams rejected the best players for local players? What you can do is run a good academy setup and unearth the more talented kids from your locality and and give them good coaching and bring them through, but at the end of the day, if they are a Spearing over a Gerrard, would you keep playing Spearing or would you go out and buy an Alonso?

Lahm is the only player from Munich at Bayern, Pique the only player who was born in Barcelona, and Marchisio the only player born in Turin who plays for Juventus. If you are looking for an example of how local talent is exclusively used or given preference over outside talent, Bilbao is a more pertinent example, and they have done well to an extent, but have struggled to really improve because of this. Now, they make the odd exception ad bring in footballers from outside.

"Money is killing football" is such an ambiguous term to use. It has made plenty of players and agents very rich, and that may or may not be detrimental to their performance, but the big money that PL for example gets, is because its watched all over the world, like you in Singapore. It's a global game these days and it reaches out to almost everywhere i the world and its that demand that makes money through broadcasting and attracts sponsors to invest big in clubs. While local talents are important, Milner, Lucas, Bellamy, Suarez and Kuyt are all examples of players who have played for Liverpool in the recent past who you cannot accuse of passion or desire or work rate. By no means is the lack of local footballers the reason for failures of English clubs in Europe clearly.

16 Sep 2015 07:49:24
Agree with AG on this. Failure of clubs has nothing to do with Non-home grwon players.

16 Sep 2015 08:08:12
I think all the potential champuons need some British players, at least a couple but not necessarily any more. let's be honest there are not that many.

16 Sep 2015 08:19:10
Great post AG.

16 Sep 2015 11:21:11
Singaporered louvern is always using his body to block Sakho from getting in the team, does that count?

16 Sep 2015 13:09:45
Singapore. if it weren't for the money people like you and me in asia or any other continent bar Europe wouldn't be watching the game. I'm noy sayi

16 Sep 2015 16:19:03
What about Utd Ag?

They've never been the same since the Manc lads fizzled out

16 Sep 2015 16:32:19
Money isn't killing the game. Its already dead.
- WE RARELY HAVE GENUINE FOOTBALLERS ANYMORE - the game is overpopulated by mercenaries, wanna-be pop-stars and ego maniacs. This is a direct result of the inflated monies. Its obscene and like an inflated housing bubble will eventually burst!

15 Sep 2015 23:31:31
A question for you eds. iif we do go back to the daimond formation don't you think we become vurnerable as the number of attack minded full backs is increasing in the league also if we do play I thinks ings would be more suitable 2nd striker option due to his energy which can be used defensivesly when we loose the ball.your thoughts ed?

{Ed001's Note - I don't see how it makes us more vulnerable, it gives us free men available to help cover the full backs if needed.}

16 Sep 2015 06:07:18
The reason people are crying out for a diamond, that's the only formation which ll fit in all their star names.
A diamond ll bench IBE ( our only winger ). Our goal came from a wingers supplying the cross.

4-3-3 is the best formation to suit Benteke and bring stability in the both midfield and flanks.
But unfortunately we have no wingers.

Our third midfielder should always be Countinho / ACM.

{Ed001's Note - it is not the best formation to suit Benteke at all, an old fashioned flat 4-4-2 would best suit Benteke. He needs support.}

16 Sep 2015 07:31:07
I doubt it would never happen, I am not convinced by our Central Midfielders, There is no Scholes type nor keane type players in there. We would never dictate the game and tempo from the middle so we will need an aditional Midfidler in the form of Countinho to do so. More over after spending tonz in years, we are left with only a 19 year old kid as our Winger.

What irritates me, We play 3 CM in adition to Countinho.

Beneteke needs support and I am a believer he needs Wide players than aditional Striker or Midfielders.

16 Sep 2015 07:50:16
Wide men whipping in crosses can be easily defended by teams with any sort of tactical nous and, given how bad our attack has been, would still leave Benteke as the only attacking outlet - this has been a big part of the problem: isolated attackers with no real support from team mates.

{Ed001's Note - depends on the quality of the crosses and when the delivery comes. If it comes in early, then it is almost impossible to defend, as has been shown throughout Europe with large numbers of goals coming from crosses this season.}

16 Sep 2015 07:56:34
A player like Benteke who is so ribust and physical could easily trip a defender with his sheer physicality. If you could pump in 7-8 croses inside 90 mts, One would go in with out a doubt.
Wide men could also cut back inside, need not only be croses.

But If you don't have width you would never stretch the opposition defenders.

16 Sep 2015 08:05:36
I'll be honest I barely have time to watch Liverpool's games let alone any European football so I'll take your word for it ed - perhaps I've simply not seen enough successful, whipped in crossing play (being as I've only really watched our games).

The question then, I suppose, is do we have the personnel to deliver consistent, quality crosses into the box at the right times? Clyne looks decent but haven't seen much of his crossing - initial impressions are that it's patchy. Gomez strikes me as a more defensive fullback (probably because he's naturally a centre back). Moreno could potentially do so but we've seen little evidence last season (and he hasn't been given a chance this season). Ibe strikes me as a player who likes to be direct and often cut inside. Who else do we play out wide? Coutinho's ingenuity is wasted on the wings, Firmino/Lallana are definitely central players, Markovic might have been able to grow into the role but we'll never know. Milner could play out there if he hadn't been promised a central berth - though can't remember how good he was at crossing for City. Is there anyone else? Seems we have a forward who'd benefit from crosses into the box but a lack of personnel with the ability/style of play to deliver.

{Ed001's Note - that is the issue. When we did hit the byline and cross, it led to Benteke's goal against United.}

16 Sep 2015 08:18:13
Sherwod asked the same question 3 months ago and we absued him here. In fact UTD first goal came when they decided to bring Young ( Direct player) for Depay who likes to cut inside more.
There is no shame in putting croses. Man UTD dominated English football with Wingers and Paul Scholes for nearly 20 years.

{Ed001's Note - what are you wittering on about Dim Sherwood for now? You need to start rereading your posts and editing them until they make some kind of sense.}

16 Sep 2015 12:12:55
As the Ed's said previously, no direction in terms of signings or how we will set up for the season to accomodate the squad, no structure in loaning out players etc. Far to many similar players in midfield; No leader at the back. Fullbacks frigtened to get forward. No ball winner, no out and out playmaker in the middle of the park and Benteke is starved of service. And, all of a sudden we have gone from a brand of attacking football to overly cautious, negative tactics which will not instill any confidence in the players. The first half against Utd being a prime example of the above. I still don't understand how BR and his backroom staff can set LFC up in such a negative fashion with time to plan and the players he has at his diposal (one or two injuries, suspensions aside). Why can't BR see what the fans see when its so blatantly obvious where our flaws lie. . sorry if this turned into a rant. YNWA

16 Sep 2015 12:39:57
Surely we need the depth of squad, ability, tactical awareness and coaching to change the formation to suit the game in which we are playing.

16 Sep 2015 15:04:05
We have the players to play the diamond formation. Why? because almost won the PL with it with Hendo, Couts, Lucas in midfield. The prob is that this system was recommended to BR as a way to get the best out of our team at the time. It is NOT his preferred system. He doesn`t fancy playing two up regardless of how many times it has worked when he did. The diamond is the way to go with Clyne and Moreno (Gomez is a CB who is a right footer playing on the left with little crossing ability). Benteke with Ings or Studge will do the business because you will have Couts at the tip with Lucas, Hendo and Fimino/Can and Milner as the four in midfield. Now all this won`t matter if we have an error prone CB partnership that accumulates mistakes every game because we won`t win if that is not fixed as well.