Liverpool Banter Archive August 18 2014

18 Aug 2014 21:57:20
i'll try one more time, seems my post was misunderstood by some posters on here or maybe I didn't express my point to well, I was talking to a Porto fan while here on holiday, he said they have bought South American players for years and sold them on a couple of years later to European clubs, who then sell them on again and still make a profit, my question was why can't we buy South American players cheaply instead of buying them from European clubs for ridiculous amounts of money? I know we haven't bought anyone for 40+ million but we are being quoted £50 million for Cavanni. and thanks EMS and Imred for your original reply of "work permits" but what about Coates? did he not need a permit?

Coates got an 'exceptional talent' provision (or whatever it's called), largely based on winning young player of whatever tournament that was.

Coates, at that time was the young player of the tournament for uruguay, got a regular place due to injury of another. there are 2 things u need to satisfy to get a work permit I dnt remember what though. I know 1 of it is u must have played a % of international games. or be proven to be a young talent wjich is still very hard to get.

Players are granted work permits by playing a certain amount of games for their national team in the past however many years (dont know the exact number) as long as their national team is relatively high ranking.

Otherwise you have to make a case for them being a special talent I believe, which is hard to do with a 18 year old south american that no one knows anything about. I don't know about Coates but Coutinho acquired a work permit through the special talent rule. I assume Coates did the same but he was already established in the Uruguay team when we bought him, he had won the Copa America best young player award in addition to the Copa America with Uruguay in 2011 and was a starter for Nacional.

Does Coates not highlight the risk in buying South American players, most of whom are unproven at the highest level?

No he didn't.
Please use the search function using the word "work permit" or "why can't Liverpool buy everyone"

18 Aug 2014 23:48:48
Coates' dad is actually Scottish so maybe that could be something to do with it. Also he had plenty of caps when we signed him so that too would have something to do with it.

To be fair, with Coates he had just won young player of the tournament at the Copa America with Uruguay just before we signed him. Helped to make the claim for "exceptional talent". Would be harder with young South Americans you'd never heard of.

19 Aug 2014 00:30:24
Work permit issues?? Maybe.

Jack, a few big reasons, but specifically on you're Coates post, he I believe was given "Special Dispensation" by the home office for his work permit as he was an "exceptional talent" under their international guidelines owing to him being a regular international throughout all of the youth setups and had broken into the national team already.

Portugal has a very different arrangement for the granting of work permits to South American nationals that doesn't require such stringent criteria. You also have to consider other factors, remember the Portuguese influence on most of South America runs very deep, climate, language, culture and food are all very similar or much easier to adapt to from most S.American countries. The language alone would be a huge factor in bringing and settling young talents that we couldn't compete with! You have to wonder whether a 16 year old kid that had grown up in a small rural village near the Amazon could land at John Lennon, be taken out to acclimatise with a night in concert square finished off with a plate of Scouse and not wonder WTF he had gotten himself into!

I have no idea how many Sth American players have been bought by smaller Euro clubs over the past, say 5 years, but obviously only a handful have then been sold on for big money. So, I assume we would need to buy a boat load and hope that a couple turn out to be worth a fortune so that we don't need to spend big on such players off other clubs? How is this any different from nurturing a player such as Sterling?

I believe Coates had a Scottish grandfather? Irrespective of that he had played in a high enough percentage of Uruguayan internationals to qualify and he also would've got one on the exceptional talent basis seeing as he got young player of the tournament the summer we signed him.

19 Aug 2014 09:25:01
Coates was just awarded Young Player of the Tournament at Copa America so it made getting a permit easier for him. However, the majority of South-Americans that the likes of Porto and Shakhtar buy won't be eligible for work permits in the UK. There was a recent post about what makes a player eligible for a work permit from Ed002 recently so maybe search for that and you'll get your answer to why we can't actually buy those players.

19 Aug 2014 09:25:37
I haven't seen the original post but generally work permit issues. The fact that the Premiership is a much bigger step up from the Argentine League than the Portuguese league for example, so therefore they are a bigger risk. 3rd party ownerships are allowed in other leagues and not in Premiership, popular in Southamerica I think. We perhaps don't scout them as thoroughly as Porto (for example). That is all just putting 2 and 2 together, I'm sure Ed002 can give a good answer.

{Ed002's Note - The issues are as one should -

18 Aug 2014 21:41:21
Lfc have been very busy in this window and are still being linked with a striker (bony, falcao etc) are the eds aware of any other players linked? What do you think to the business overall?

18 Aug 2014 20:28:18
Alright eds Daniel agger was packing a lot of bits today at melwood, any news on him eds? Also while I'm here I know it's the million dollar question at the minute, but how realistic is the chance of getting falcao( what a player if we do)? Cheers eds👍

18 Aug 2014 19:14:59
With Agger probably on his way out, who is the vice captain this season?

18 Aug 2014 19:40:00
Henderson.

I was thinking that, we have about 4 players who have been here from before rodgers, agger Lucas hendo and Stevie, so you may presume it would be hendo?

Agreed on Hendo.

I'd imagine it'd be skrtel if he plays

Maybe lovren? I know he's only been here since this summer but he's vocal, knows how to organise and is a first teamer.
Hendo is a great shout though.

I know his new but ill have lovren, looks like a born leader

I think lovren should be considered

Henderson.

18 Aug 2014 22:43:31
Personally I would give it straight to Lovren. He is a natural leader and we don't have many of them in the squad! Henderson would be my 2nd choice.

Henderson all day, though I think Skrtel would benefit from the increased responsibility. Perhaps he'd finally become more vocal on the pitch. I think either one of those two would respond well to that, though I don't believe it should made public. If Gerrard's off the pitch, we'll see who gets the armband.

Lovren, you serious? He's been here 5 minutes and you want to make him VC. Has to be Henderson surely?

19 Aug 2014 06:33:57
Henderson or lallana

18 Aug 2014 18:46:09
Ilori's loan to Bordeaux has been confirmed.

That leaves Lovren, Sakho, Skrtel, Toure, Agger and Coates as out first team options. Lovren, Sakho and Skrtel are staying, and Toure wants to stay as well, so that would mean Agger and Coates will be sold/loaned. Has there been any updates on them, ed's?

18 Aug 2014 19:01:39
I think you got it right with players heading out and the players staying.

18 Aug 2014 18:20:07
Ilori to Bordeaux confirmed as a season long loan.

Can't understand this but I'm sure Brendan has a plan.

With Toure staying now, it was important Ilori went out to get games. At Bordeaux, he is very likely to be a regular starter and it gives us a chance to see if he improves and hopefully he will be ready for next season.

Maybe we've not moved the players we want on thus far this summer; getting games (not too sure if they are playing in Europe as well) would be a benefit for the player.

Yeah, the plan is we have 6 CBs (Skrtel, Lovren, Sakho, Toure, Agger, Coates) without Ilori. He's young and needs playing time.

18 Aug 2014 17:46:46
Why not just pay the difference for origi. I heard if he wasnt loaned the price would have gone up. We will spend money on a replacement anyway and he will get valuable games. Thoughts?

Origi will effectively replace lambert, and he can play on the wing too! The other striker will still be here.

Because Lille wouldn't have sold if he couldn't be loaned straight back; it's not about a loan fee or experience - it was this way only.

18 Aug 2014 17:28:30
The posters preferred strikers are really touching all extremes in this window
At one moment it is Falcao and the next Eto
And now Torres
My views on Torres
He is bad like really bad
1-He depended too much on his acceleration
After his knee injuries he has lost it
2-He lacks a killer instinct As a striker you have to be in the box asking for the ball not helping out on the wing
Works hard and all that is not for a striker he has to be greedy
3- His confidence is shot He can't even hit a frigging barn door
4- Has everyone suddenly forgotten the circumstances surrounding his departure? He had told he will stay till summer
but when Chelsea came calling he threw out his toys and went crying to Kenny. And that comment
"I have now moved to a bigger club"

Those are reasons enough for him not to return
I didn't even mention his wages

18 Aug 2014 17:34:52
A frigging Barn Door?. That's Harsh Reet. Really harsh. lols

The reason Torres has failed at Chelsea?

Steve Gerrard; put pretty much everything on a plate for him (well most of the goals); when you can do no wrong and confidence is high then other things work for you as well.

I have to admit my views have softened on Torres. I just think it's the wrong man at the wrong club. If the choice was Torres, Huntelaar or Eto'o. It would be Torres all day long as he has more to offer.

This nonsense about not forgiving is beyond me, it's hardly as if he went and played for the mancs.

His all round game is better than the other two and if he was available on the cheap he'd turn out a bargain.

I rather have heskey than torres, he misses more open goals than scoring.

18 Aug 2014 15:45:29
Just a question I'm not saying whether I want or not just asking for what you guys think,, Torres to come back on the cheap?

{Ed002's Note - The fans seem evenly split.}

Not for me, how much is cheap out of interest?

If even means the fans are 50% deluded 50%any football knowledge. Then yeah evenly split. Torres was past it before he left us, never recovering from that knee injury. Chelsea were ridiculous to buy him as his performances up till January were a joke. Roman only bought him because he scored 2 against Chelsea that term. He wouldn't even make it in Spain.

I really cannot see that he would bring much o the squad in terms of improvement. He has lost his pace and finishing is off completely, whether this is a confidence thing, who knows.

Depends on definition of "the cheap"

If "the cheap" is a fee of 0 euros and his weekly wage is 0 pounds with a bonus package worth 0 pounds then sure he can come back on the cheap. I'll even pay his Megabus fare from London for him.

Anything more than that is over paying for El Ninny.

I personally think he'd be an excellent partner or back up for Sturridge. He isn't as fast or clinical as he once was but his work rate has tripled, he is happy to go out wide to receive the ball and he is much better at holding the ball up due to being bulkier. He actually has very good movement still and I think Chelsea make him look bad and that the pressure and abuse from the fans has had an adverse affect on his game. He is a confidence player, which is why he still looks brilliant for Spain were he has that backing and belief.

Less than £12m, yes, without a doubt as long as he takes a wage cut.

I'd rather bring back Robbie Fowler again :)

Id take him on loan with chelsea topping up his wages.

18 Aug 2014 16:41:50
He might never find his best form again but Torres at 75 percent his best is better than eto or for me borini, with only lambert there I'd take Torres because if he can ever find form again the only place this could happen is Lfc

18 Aug 2014 16:53:49
No he should be very expensive. Meaning I'd like another 50m off Chelsea to take him off their hands.

EMS,
You normally speak sense.
Have you had a hard day today, bit too much stress at work maybe?

18 Aug 2014 17:49:48
Seriously Guys.
We reached back to Torres now?. Next would be Ngog and Voronin.

18 Aug 2014 17:58:58
Football is fickle, we'd forgive or at least gloss over Torres' departure if he came back and scored goals.

Would he score goals though? It's hard to logically say that he would for us when he hasn't scored that many for Chelsea. I know we play more attacking football and score more goals as a team, but you can't say that Chelsea have been a non-team going forward for the last 3 and a half years and blame them for his lack of goals.

Personally don't see Torres offering anything different to Lambert at this stage in his career.

It really isn't like some kind of anomaly that torres has magically oost his magic touch.

While he is completely miserable, demotivated and unhappy while playing football at chelsea now, it is purely down to his loss of form as a result of the knee injury. He never settled at chelsea, as he was still recovering from the injury, it knocked his confidence and all momentum out of him. I really don't think he will ever capture that form again.

Torres on the cheep or Huntelaar or Eto'o? Rather take back Torres on the cheap than the other two, at least he is mobile. Mind you I'd rather keep Borini than any of them.

18 Aug 2014 18:39:14
Fernando Torres is the past, we move forward.

Current wages £170k per week - not sure if your definition of cheap is the same as mine!

18 Aug 2014 18:58:36
How greener is that grass now Mr torres? I'd have him back aslong as he can get them boots sparkling for the studge and raheem. I'd have him back as back up aslong as he writes a 3 page apology to the fans on how wrong he was to jump ship and leaving us in a hole like he did. Yeh never know he might recapture his form being one in the spotlight but personally I'd rather take that immature brat from ac least he's got years ahead of him to shape up

David Ngog should be available on a free, as would Robbie, who I'm certain would be willing to come to us!

Torres was my favorite player at once point, but no, never in a million years. Would most of you take Owen back? Same thing. Owen was also my favorite when he was at the club.

1. Falcao
2. Cavani
3. Bony

Other than that, no one.

18 Aug 2014 19:14:14
Really hope Torres never wears the red again.

i wonder how many people would take back Suarez in 3 years time.

Just judging him without bias mate. He isn't world class anymore but he is still a good player. I think perhaps you are all still a little sore so are judging him unfairly. If you actually watch him play he is far from a bad player. In our team, 15 goals a season easily.

Forget the fact he has played for us. Forget how good he used to be. Judge him on how good he is right now. He's still got ability and experience. You don't just lose ability. He lost pace, but he got stronger and changed his game. I get that a lot of people don't rate him because you're comparing him to what he used to be, but that's just not fair. It's not a backwards move to bring him in as back up. Would bringing Alonso in be going backwards? No, so let's not be bitter. Leave that to Everton fans please.

18 Aug 2014 22:19:02
When he played for us absolutely loved him, was a treat to watch. But is a shadow of his former self, if we could get half the player he used to be would be worth it. Even if we got him for less then £10m and he halved his wages he would still be £80-90k a week so is still expensive . EMS normally agree with your post but he got 13 BPL goals in the last two seasons as the main striker for Chelsea. Don't see how as second fiddle for us he would triple his league goal tally from last season.
Would rather us take a gamble on a striker/winger with potentially, eg Lacazette or yarmolenko ( though he normally plays wing)

I love Torres, still would like him to do well except against us. I'm not bitter over how he left either.

He's downright useless now though and there is no way I'd want him back - 100% on ability. He needs to leave the country to get a fresh start.

He was disrespectful leaving the club. Why would he even want to come back? It beggars belief that Torres (if he's available) would be interested in anything other than a move back to Spain.

EMS Leaving aside all the personal feelings about what he did and how he went about it Torres was poor for us for at least 6 months before he left and has deteriorated since then.

His game relied on pace and a team built for him, through balls from Gerrard / Alonso. Sure Chelsea do not play the same way and he was never suited to their style so would never really going to look good there, however even at his peak he would not fit into a front 3 or two up top alongside Sturridge so he would only be taking Sturridges place or covering for when he is injured.

Remember his first goal for us, against Chelsea. That was pretty much HIS move. He'd latch onto a through ball one on one with a defender (in this case Ben Haim I think) he'd run at the guy, faint as if slowing down then as soon as the defender reacted knock it past and then smash in a shot. Torres these days couldn't do that move on Mertesacker who is about the slowest PL defender going and its not like he has developed any new tricks since joining Chelsea, that's why he always looks so frustrated, he ends up out wide and running straight into a brick wall. He would be great for someone like Celtic maybe but he's just not a top half Premier League quality striker anymore.

You ask would I take Alonso back. Yes, in a heartbeat because his game was much more skillfull and based around touch, feel and passing, not running at full pelt, stopping and accelerating again finding himself one on one with a keeper. Alonso got better when he left and worked alongside truly great players. Torres like Owen lost his edge when he lost his hamstrings.

And he's a ****

18 Aug 2014 15:27:00
Hi All,

We looked quiet poor yesterday, I think our best shape is the diamond!

I think if we bought in another top striker ie Balotelli that he would play a fair bit.

These rumours about cavani are interesting but wide of the mark.

Coutinho was missing yesterday so I am hoping Lallana would replace him if this was happening in a game.

{Ed002's Note - I rather doubt Richard Buckminster Fuller would agree about the diamond.

Anyway, later this afternoon will see the launch of a new page for Teams and Formations (where the old Teams page was). You can discuss, diamonds, triangles, icosaheda and drink virtual coffee and eat virtual biscuits (virtual sugar-free juice and virtual rusks for the early evening crowd). I am going to provide a couple of treats to launch this all off. You will be provided with background information as to how thought control has led you to speak in series of numbers that add up to 10 (I do appreciate many modern fans struggle with this concept). Then tomorrow I will explain the views of two highly respected folk about formations and associated tactics - an I might even share my views on the benefits of asymmetrical formations. But we will open in about half an hour with a brief item covering Subbuteo and the evolution of the football fan's hand.}

18 Aug 2014 16:00:03
Ed002;

That had me falling off my chair! Absolutely brilliant! but I must point out that you missed the dodecahedron formation as well.

Keep the gems coming good sir/madam.

JFT96
YNWA

{Ed002's Note - The new page has been now actually been launched - Teams and Formations has replaced the old Teams page. First article is up there now. Enjoy.}

18 Aug 2014 17:10:48
Looking forward to that Ed002-3-3-2

18 Aug 2014 17:53:43
Quick question Ed002, do you have a Myers-Briggs profile?

{Ed002's Note - Country and Western is not me man.}

18 Aug 2014 15:06:16
Anyone else think Javier Manquillo looks like he is always on the verge of a sneeze?

A bit but he's not quite on Agbonlahors level!

Better than Suarez. He always looked like he smelled something bad.

Manquillo bears a striking resemblance to Phillip Degen. Suarez was Mascherano-bad looking.

18 Aug 2014 14:10:13
Just read a rumour that QPR may bid £7 million for Johnson. Unfortunately probably utter rubbish, but if QPR are interested there probably won't be a shortage of LFC fans offering to give him a lift to London

If I was Glen Johnson and I read this site, I would do the bare minimum on the pitch and walk away on a free. Maybe he saw last seasons abuse.

Given he's wages I'd be glad if he went for half that. Shame, used to be a great player for us but just lost it.

If I was Glen Johnson and I saw this site I'd buck my ideas up and try harder.

If you think you are close to the sack, you try harder. If that makes you try less then you didn't deserve the job in the first place because you don't have the right mentality to ever make something of yourself

Exactly ems. Flanno being the prime example.

18 Aug 2014 13:57:44
Hi Ed002, I remember you telling us that we shouldn't expect a marquee signing. What has changed ed? I haven't really been following this transfer window. Is this possible because of our new commercial deals or because of Suarez's sale?

{Ed002's Note - I am not aware of anything that has changed?}

Ed with significant debt being built up I expect the likes of huntelaar or bony to come in rather than Falcao or lavezzi.

{Ed002's Note - I really don't want to get in to the money.}

We've supposedly enquired about big names. Haven't hunterlaar or allegedly bony so how are the latter more likely? FSG know more about the debt situation so why worry about it? If they spend the cash then it's a risk they seem worth taking. Unless you're a billionaire isn't most football team ownership attached with huge risk!?

18 Aug 2014 13:23:54
So Mourinho is 'out to beat defensive teams' this season. You would think with all the practise he has had they would be experts!

18 Aug 2014 13:13:10
Henderson deserves the praise he's getting for yesterday's performance. Great ball to Sterling for the goal. However he can't play to his full strengths out wide. His game is all about pressing, closing down space for the opposition and helping to attack when we break. Playing Lucas in the middle nearly cost us as he just doesn't have the same dynamism. Neither he nor Gerrard are capable of breaking from defence into attack leaving Coutinho isolated. At times in the 2nd half we were completely overrun in the midfield. I suspect Hendo was only played out there because Lallana wasnt available, so next Monday should see him revert to his normal role. Lallana has the ability to glide past the first man and create space, which for all his attributes, Hendo doesn't so we should look a lot more balanced when he is playing.

He played Lucas because he wanted to free up hendo & coutinho to get in the box and score, which back fired big time!
Coutinho has proved he can't play further forward in that no10 role, he's so much better playing in a deeper CM role where he can have space and time.
We are at our best with this shape with sterling in the no10.
Gerrard
Hendo - coutinho
Sterling
Sturridge lambert.

I think we could see the same team next monday, with the only change being Allen for Lucas.

This is only because I think Lallana won't be ready for the City game.

When Allen came on yesterday he injected a lot more energy into the team and his pressing and movement helped us get back some control.

When Lallana and Markovic are fit I agree that Henderson should be played in a more central role as this is where he is most effective.

Redmist, Totally agree about Henderson, he's got to play central to play to his strengths, we know he can't play wide right, we found that out under Dalglish.

Jay, totally agree we looked more solid and more threatening when Allen came on.

I don't think it matters so much but that being that either gerrard or can is the only holding midfielder playing, in the most central, deep lying position on the pitch.

From there you can have any of allen, can, henderson, lallana, coutinho or lucas in the other central midfield roles, and lallana, markovic, ibe, coutinho and sterling in the attacking midfield positions, and any of sturridge, sterling, lambert or borini if he stays up front.

18 Aug 2014 12:12:11
Ed001, would you mind giving us your review of yesterday's game?

{Ed001's Note - good result, but performance was far from good. We were ok in the first half, but lacked width and were reliant on the full backs to provide it. Johnson looked his usual disinterested self even then. Second half we were just awful. We gave them the initiative and let them get back into the game. There was a lack of pressing from the whole team and we all looked out of sorts. But we got the result and hopefully it was just a lack of understanding and atmosphere that caused the woeful performance.}

Atmosphere felt extremely flat on the tv. Could hear all the saints chants and them shushing us. What's that all about? Nervousness?

Glad you me tioned lack of atmosphere ed, terrible there yesterday by what I saw on telly, what is it with the home fans now? To many season ticket holders to complacent?

You are bang on there Ed001 about the lack of atmosphere, it was bloody awful. I was really expecting the crowd to be in full voice and really get behind the boys to get us off to a good start to the season, but there were times you could hear a pin drop.

Hopefully it was just a case of everyone being horse after laughing so much at Utd losing!

Some positives though. I thought Manquillo was good for first game but will be great to see lallana and Markovic play, and hope Can gets to play soon as think he will be very good

18 Aug 2014 13:57:11
RNred, I think it's to many out of towners depriving locals of tickets, they are middle Englanders who see football as a super hobby take up, and just sit there waiting to be entertained.

The atmosphere was good last year on a lot of ocassions. So the "too many out of towners " doesn't hold much water. Anyway, what's to stop the "in towners" to create an atmosphere? Not enough of them?

I'll have that Waro, In general I don't think fans from outside the city are as passionate (I reiterate in general) and the "family day out" effect has its benefits (spending in club shop) and its downsides (atmosphere) which contribute.

I think it was both out of towners and locals keeping very quiet, Waro. At one point, the only chant I could hear was two guys singing about FSG and hedge funds and alien probing - wasn't you and Ozone by any chance?

I was in the Anfield Rd end next to the Southampton fans. Credit to them for their respect of Rickie but I don't think they liked Dejan Lovren much!
The atmosphere created from the majority of home fans was poor.
We, that are fortunate enough to go to the match have a responsibility to create an atmosphere, not just for the players and the opponents, but for all our worldwide fans that are screaming at the telly, cheering us on and for every other football fan that watches us. 'This is Anfield' and we have to make it a cauldron of passion and noise and encouragement no matter who the opposition.
This is one of the only things we can do that can help affect the result. Forget All the talk before and after analysing and debating let's first make sure Anfield is the most intimidating place for opponents and the most encouraging place for our team
We have a duty as LFC supporters

Waro, my season ticket is directly behind 4 scouse lads who don't sing a single song all match, not even You'll Never Walk Alone before kick-off. They spend the whole match chatting to each other, slagging every player who makes a mistake.

What is all this out of towners making less noise cr@p - how would you know. It has been a while since I was last at Anfield but I don't remember having to say or show where I was from. I'd expect that kind of rubbish from Waro but you've let yourself down Alan

Quite often when I have been at the match it's the locals who are silent and the out of Towners who are the loudest.
Especially the older season ticket holders of Which there are many now.

18 Aug 2014 18:44:27
Scarface, that is Waro, Ozone and their two mates you refer to.

Supporting the best club in the world means you have to share Waro:)
It really is that simple.

MM, note I did say in general and reiterated "in general" as its what I have seen/heard from my position in the lower centenary for the past 4 seasons, (Im in the Kop now) and I stand by my comments re families, In general (once again) you simply find that dad/mum with child/children don't get as involved as some others, wether they be scousers or out of towners, And by the way i'm not slagging them its just what I have witnessed in the part of the ground I sit. So I don't think I've let myself down I've just called it as I see it with no bias or mailce intended.

Waro. You're talking absolute nonsense. We spent a couple of glorious days last week on this site talking about how we all fell in love with Liverpool. Only a fool ignores those words and comes up with a ridiculous comment that people born outside of Liverpool have less rights to support our team.

The fact that more families and a different type of person now (more middle class, less working class - finance being the issue) attend more games more often is the reason why the atmosphere at home is pretty flat. It has been for a number of seasons now - where the fans are from is not the point - the change in demographic of the football fan is the point. Sure the club can charge more money and increase turnover but the affect of this is, as we saw against Southampton, a subdued, flat atmosphere.

Agree Seano, that's why I said families wether it be locals or out of towners.

18 Aug 2014 12:24:23
Eds and fellow reds just a thought, albeit unlikely. What about bringing in Tony Pulis as a coach/assistant (part time) just to help organise and sure up the defence. Even if only for 3 or 4 months until a job comes up which is worth taking he comes in and drills the team on a part time basis?

Can't see Tony Pulis doing that but a better option may be Steve Clarke

Rodgers refused to work with a director of football so he won't work with another manager. Do you not know about the Houllier & Evans era?

It was catastrophic to say the least.

The problem with two managers is both are dominant people who want complete control. Pulis would simply not accpet a role in just 'coaching defenders'. We would be better off going for someone like Hansen or Carragher. Both are excellent analysts of the defensive side of the game and very strong characters who love the club. Carra has other ties with Sly though and Hansen has just retired. It's a tough one and I did think of Gary Monk over the summer as Rodgers had worked with him previously and he was an excellent organiser as a player. It would seem that he too has strong aspirations to go solo and be a manager though.

It is a really tough one. You need to find someone who will be willing to try and coach defenders individually without trying to tell Rodgers how to set them up. Rodgers will always play with wing backs and centre backs splitting to allow a midfielder to drop in. It's his philosophy. Not many defensive coaches would be willing to work under that constraint. It's literally a case of "this is how the defence WILL play. Coach them individually so they can nail the basics and learn to focus".

What is Carlos Puyol doing? He played his whole career in a philosophy similar to Rodgers and was the best organiser in recent history in my opinion? He could be a great shout if he'd be willing and if he's not busy doing Spanish TV or something.

I don't see it happening regardless, but our defensive shape is awful at times and Lovren tried so hard to get them to hold a straight line yesterday but Johnson and Skrtel just don't listen to a word he says. Enrique is even worse as well! Hopefully Sakho and Moreno come in next week after a good week of solid training.

Rodgers also needs to drop one of Lucas or Gerrard for Allen/Can so we have more pressing energy in the middle and people who can keep up with opposition midfield runners. The thought of Toure running at a flat footed Lucas and Gerrard really, really scares me.

Adam, I think he meant like qpr have done with Hoddle. Not trying to undermine Rodgers but help him.
Having said all of that I think we are better off not going down that route. (Rory Delap available?)

18 Aug 2014 14:03:22
Adam

Rodgers refused to work with a director of football so he won't work with another manager

That line sums it all.

You still don't get it ems sakho is on the bench because of lovren not his fitness.sakho didn't live up to expectation last season and has lost his place to lovren

Then Rodgers really does need help because Sakho is better defensively in every department.

If anymore is needed Jamie Carragher would the first person I'd call
Our defence will improve this season and yesterday's centre back pairing looked good together
Skrtel and Lovren both had good games

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Sakho. I don't think he'll be keen on being supplanted by Lovren on a semi-permanent basis. We spent near as much on Ilori last summer as Soton did on Lovren, really need to tidy up on transfers as we can't afford to make so many mistakes.

I think Sahko was the last player back from the world cup in Liverpool's squad.
Rodgers will not have spent 40 million quid on 2 CB's in Lovren and Sahko and then not try them out as a pair, surely?

18 Aug 2014 11:18:07
Just wanted to say. Newcastle looked really good with their new signings.

I think they might have a good start to the season as they did a couple/3 years ago.

In terms of our Liverpool Fc. I actually really enjoyed the game yesterday. It just shows how competitive the Premiership is nowadays. Southampton were always going to give us a hard game. Not just with them being our bogey team, but obviously with the players we bought off them and the fact that their current players wanted to perform well for Koeman. This was never going to be easy.

LFC, in my eyes showed again why we can compete with the top 4 again. A few seasons ago we would have lost that game, but we absorbed their pressure, we battled, we had some great individual performances including Mignolet who made some fantastic stops and this shows just how far Brendan has taken the club in terms of their commitment.

We have MCFC next which will be hard, but like I said, there won't be any easy games this year. I do believe we have a better squad and YES we do need another playmaking goal scorer and I'm convinced we will have that addition before the window shuts.

Moving forward, Lucas needs to be a backup player ONLY. He wasn't good enough yesterday and the introduction of Allen showed that clearly.

Couthinio had an off day with plenty of mistakes, mis passes and looked a little tired. Although I will say again Southampton targeted him well and all in all they played a good game at Anfield.

I actually thought Skrtle played okay, that's just my opinion. Listen he is not the best but he plays ALWAYS with passion and desire to win the ball. Lovren will be able to assist him and Sakho. The defence I think will end up being the best in the league this year. Great additions!

Prob GERRARDS last season as a first choice player. To me he has lost loads of pace and even some of his passing looked tired, but you can't take anything away from the guy.

HENDO, sterling, and STURRIDGE once again showed how we have prob the best English players in the league. They will be the outstanding players for the team this year. If Lallana comes back fitter and stronger and shows the quality he did for Southampton too, we will be right up there this year and prob do ok in the other competitions too.

Cheers

18 Aug 2014 11:54:38
Gotta give some credit to Southampton. Lost 4 influencial players and then made us sweat at Anfield.
Dusan tadic looks one hell of a player.

18 Aug 2014 09:47:26
there will be no easy games this season. we cannot expect to play silky football every game.

it was a really good result yesterday. we got 3 points and that's the main thing.

its going to be a tough season with us being in the CL.

we need to sign another quality striker to take the pressure off Daniel. if we do get one our squad will be able to field 2 quality sides. we won't be able to replace suarez and his goals as the pundits keep going on about but who would. .as long as we get a proven goal scorer it will help.

i cannot believe some fans getting on the teams back after one game. what has happened to supporters these days.

I agree, what has happened to supporters?! Some 'fans' only seem to be satisfied when we beat teams 4-0, sad really I was over the moon when sturridge netted the winner

18 Aug 2014 09:08:53
Liverpool vs Southampton

Interesting game yesterday, some bright moments and bright performances interspersed with poor moments and performances.

Positives

- Manquillo was excellent defensively
- Henderson was superb
- Sterling and Sturridge always look like they have goals in them
- Mignolet made some excellent saves
- Lovren looks like he's been at the club for years, his transition has been seamless

Negatives

- Defence once again shakey and unreliable
- Gerrard and Lucas faded badly
- Coutinho had a typical 'Coutinho game': Nice touches, some promising moments but ultimately little impact on proceedings resulting in an increasing quiet performance culminating in his eventual substitution
- Glen Johnson
- Skrtel tries really hard but is simply incapable of placing himself in the correct position


Conclusions

Getting the 3 points was the most important aspect of this game so we can say that it was mission accomplished. There were however a number of moments of concern and I think these moments give us a good indication of where we went wrong and where we can change and make improvements. Southamptons midfield trio of Wanyama, Schniederlein and Ward-Prowse were excellent, particularly their work rate. As the game wore on they because increasingly dominant, as Gerrard and Lucas became increasingly tired, and their dominance was the primary reason for Southamptons dominance. It was only with Allen's introduction for Lucas that the momentum of the game changed somewhat and I think this area does need looking at for the next game. Clyne and Tadic were excellent on the right for Southampton, in part due to Johnson's insistence on moving to as central as possible, and in part due to Coutinho's ineffective back tracking. Coutinho always seems to have quiet games when playing out wide and, for me personally, I am not convinced he should ever be played out wide unless we have no other options. Skrtel was, despite his desire, poor again. Positionally the lad just doesn't seem able to learn. I'd honestly prefer we kept Agger as, though he lacks pace, his reading and understanding of the game and his duty is far superior to Skrtel's - had it not been for a Mignolet wonder save we might have been talking about another goal Skrtel has cost us.

Its unfair to be totally negative here though as we did win. The old adage states that good teams play badly and win - we did that today and the ability to grind out results when not at your best is one we will need this season. Sturridge and Sterling look sharp and full of goals so we will hopefully see them both have successful seasons. Henderson was peerless and really has made monumental strides in his game - the more I see him the more I realise how valuable a player to our system he is. Think he tired toward the end of the game due to the sheer amount of running he had to do - sadly Lucas and Gerrard made his job no easier. For the city game its essential that one of either Lucas or Gerrard are dropped to the bench and either Allen of Can given the nod. We need a better work rate than what we saw yesterday and playing 2 lumbering, lethargic midfielders is a recipe for disaster against a team with a midfield like City's - it was almost a disaster against Southampton! But, we did what good teams do, we have a good few players due back from injury and we still have a good few weeks of the transfer window remaining. Interesting times ahead.

18 Aug 2014 09:30:06
Seano

Very good points and most of them bang on.

Countinho needs support from the midfield to work his magic. He was marked out by Wanyama and recieved nothing from Lucas. So he had an off day.
Once Lallana comes in, Countinho would shine.

There would times, When Countinho would be marked off, Others should step up. And unfortunatley only Henderson could from the middle.

Thought Coutinho were in a 10´ position and Henderson right winger (even though he is all over the pitch). Koeman got his tactics right, and made sure that Coutinho had little to no room to do his magic.

For next match, I would like to see the midfield triangle inverted. Instead of two DM (gerrard and Lucas) I would like to see two midfielders and a DM. What went wrong was that we let their midfield get too much space, which let to loosing the ball quite often. I would also have wanted Can to play the last 30 minutes instead of Gerrard, because he ran his legs off, and faded a lot during the second half. This might be down to helping out Lucas or Johnson who seemed to struggle a lot.

I still think Lucas has a Job to do, being a squad player. When we scored like 3-4 goals or we just need to slow down the tempo, then introducing Lucas is not a bad idea. Remember this is the start of the season, and players are just starting to get into the rhytm again.

Next match against city we cannot afford to make as many mistakes as we did yesterday. To do this we will have to introduce Moreno instead of Johnson. Also Citys midfielders are strong, so a midfield of Henderson, Can and Gerrard should suffice. The rest of the starting 11 should be the same as yesterday.

Coutinho won't shine when lallana is fit he would be on the bench

Lucas and Gerrard should not play together. 1 Gerrard needs players with pace and energy around him in CM and 2 even though Lucas is a better holding mid he will always have to play wider when next to Gerrard because Gerrard can't run like he used to.

18 Aug 2014 11:38:06
Seano and Jessie are spot on.

Haych, I thought both Gerrard and Lucas were too square-on yesterday so you've got a point.

As disciplined as Southampton were, they were able to stop a deep starting attack by smothering both Lucas and Gerrard.

We needed two up front a lot earlier on.

I think that we can all agree on this.
Gerrard and Lucas don't have the required athleticism to play the holding roles at the same time.
Its one or the other, but its not a bad thing to find this out in a game in which we won!

I am a massive Gerrard fan but his first touch was very ordinary. He looked way off the pace and was caught too far forward numerous times leaving the back four unprotected.

Coutinho was exposed a bit as there was little support around him and not enough balls into his feet
I don't think we shod of played 2 holding midfielders, especially at home. Once Joe Allen came on he got forward a lot more and linked up the defence to attack
I'm not sure that formation yesterday was suited to the personnel. It didn't get the best of Henderson or Gerrard as well as Coutinho

18 Aug 2014 08:28:46
Was at work yesterday so missed the game (gutted) then had to resist going on this site because I wanted to watch it on match of the day. My point is watching the game we didn't play great but man city easily equalised are performance. Arsenal and Tottenham last minute goals and united and Everton losing points.

Seems like all the top teams didn't play as well as expected and any of them teams could of dropped points. let's just be grateful we picked up the right amount of points!

By the way why wasn't sakho playing? Really want to see a sakho lovren partnership although if brendon didn't risk it against Southhampton then can't see him doing that against city.

18 Aug 2014 09:01:31
The only difference was the performance. We were dominated by Southampton, While Arsenal, City and Spurs dominated their opposition.
Arsenal had close to 72% possession.
While Spurs with a man down came with a win at West Ham
City also came with a win at Newcastle.
TBH I am happy with the results and the shocking peroformance, would be an eye opener for BR to look for a top class player and drop Lucas and Johnson for the team.
We woould have been comfortbale if Ibe or Allen started ahead of Lucas.

I think Sakho didn´t play because of the WC. A lot of other teams have chosen to rest their WC players, in order to get them up to fitness.

{Ed002's Note - It is nothing to do with the World Cup - it is to do with Lovren.}

City, Arsenal and in particular Spurs definitely DID NOT dominate their games. Spurs were outplayed for most of the game, Arsenal had 0 chances from free play in the entire game (scored from 2 set pieces) and City were clinical with their very few attempts on goal and Newcastle were the better team imo. All three teams were lucky to get 3 points from their games.

Boom, did you watch the spurs game? They were truely woeful and were completely outplayed. A draw wouldn't have even been a fair result for the hammers. If west ham had a decent striker they would have won 4-0. Our performance wasn't good but I know we have several levels we can step up to.

I agree with RedFuzz on Sakho. I think he'll be starting with Lovren and then Skrtel will be dropped to the bench. Lovren would have been out in the group stages of the world cup so his fitness is better than Sakho and Skrtel wasn't at the world cup so he's after a good pre-season so makes sense for them to start for now.

18 Aug 2014 14:11:04
Swiscleaner

I did watch the Spurs game. They were a man down whole 45mts second half. West ham had some croses into the box. that's it.
Spurs were better on the ball and created far more than hammers.
We did struggle when we went there last season.

Every newspaper report acknowledged they were well outplayed- even before the 10 men. Loris kept them in the game. They didn't 'dominate' and had about 2 shots on goal.they were worse than us against I believe an inferior team than Southampton. Had noble scored it would have been game over. The spurs fans I spoke to today couldn't believe they had scraped a win.

18 Aug 2014 07:27:10
Eds, fellow posters, anyone think Sterling could have a real future as a central striker? A bit like Henry.

18 Aug 2014 09:13:30
That would be a good shout, But He is just 19 year old. It would be too much pressure on him.

When I posted this last week I got 16 disagrees. What a difference a day makes!

He must be one of the best finishers in the team. Maybe only behind Sturridge.

I think he would be wasted in that position as he has so much more to his game.

However, if we needed him to play that role he would do a good job.

To be honest I think we need another Sterling type player for the other wing with Sturridge in the middle.

Red Rum

Settle down! He's still very young and hasn't played a full season yet let alone be compared with Henry. As for his finishing it's improving but still has a long way to go, missed a fair few one on ones last year. He's looking sharp though so am excited to see his improvement.

18 Aug 2014 02:46:40
Well we're 3 points better off from the same fixture as last season and that would have won us the league. Happy days Reds and that's without Suarez too!

18 Aug 2014 07:04:21
Let's hope we also get 3 points in our next fixture.

18 Aug 2014 09:20:24
Stoke 1-0 was last season's first game.

18 Aug 2014 00:33:51
Have we any interest in adrian? Might be a good backup. And what ever happened to the interest in rodrigo. We go again at man city!

{Ed002's Note - There is no LFC interest in either.}

Adrian joined Porto this summer, I think.