Liverpool Banter Archive June 19 2016

19 Jun 2016 23:05:28
Alrite lads. I'm hearing a strong rumour regarding the link to villas Jordan amavi apparently villa only want to loan him to us if they can have ibe for the season in return . Not sure what to think of this as I personally think Moreno is a better left back than amavi.

20 Jun 2016 00:03:14
Don't know much about amavi but if he doesn't gift the opposition 15 odd points a season then he's a better left back that Moreno.

20 Jun 2016 00:14:30
Amavi and chilwell, would be an improvement, but is amavi good enough? Hard to tell In the worst premier league team I've ever seen how good individually each player is.

20 Jun 2016 00:26:25
No he won't be an improvement on Moreno.

19 Jun 2016 20:18:55
I must say, love the new away shirt, one of the best for me, going to get it tomorrow. what's all of yours favourite shirt through the years?

One of my favourites was the one (cant remember the year) torres was here and it was black and yellow!

19 Jun 2016 20:35:49
I like the look of the new away shirt too. One thing I've been told about it though, is that the badge is stuck on the shirt, rather than being stitched into the material like most of the other big clubs shirts.
Probability of the badge coming off after a few washes.
Don't know whether it's true. but check it out.

19 Jun 2016 21:17:36
Has to be the 2008/ 09 home kit for me, such a simple kit but I absolutely loved it, always loved the Adidas styled kits.

19 Jun 2016 21:28:09
Loved the grey one from 08/ 09 season. Had Carragher on the back.

19 Jun 2016 22:38:47
Ahhh interesting, don't like that side of it if that's true. I just can't help myself I have to own it lol.

19 Jun 2016 22:42:38
My favourite shirt was my mid nineties non-tucked Ben Sherman.

Oh, the low neck xs lime green one tied centrally under the breast bone in a cute little bow looked amazing when wide eyed on the City Centre podium scene.

19 Jun 2016 22:53:58
It's embroidered.

19 Jun 2016 23:11:58
LOL!

19 Jun 2016 23:59:32
I still have my 1982 yellow with red pinstripe Crown Paints shirt. It's in my will to go to my son when I've gone.
Regarding badges being stuck rather than stitched on, this has been the way for a few years now in other sports, so shouldn't be an issue. I've found playing in shirts with stitched badges to be a bit itchy and irritating.

20 Jun 2016 00:07:32
Yellow and red away kit 1986. Loved it.

20 Jun 2016 00:11:36
Crown Paints in 1982? 🤔.

20 Jun 2016 00:36:49
I too like the away kit for the new season . for me the best kit was the crown paint home kit and the gray crown paint away kit i have in a frame signed.

20 Jun 2016 00:54:50
Yeah Ron, 82 I'm pretty sure, saved up the pocket money myself. Could have been 83, but no later.

{Ed007's Note - I hate to admit it but the green and white quartered top Liverpool had when Ruddock and Fowler played was an absolute beezer of a top.}

20 Jun 2016 01:26:23
79-82 = Hitachi
82-88 = Crown Paints
88-92 = Candy
92-10 = Carslberg (longest running in the top flight)
10- = Standard Chartered.

20 Jun 2016 01:48:11
Yeah wasn't sure but a quick check shows we did indeed change to Crown Paints in 82/ 3. Sorry, thought it was later.

20 Jun 2016 07:48:34
No worries Ron, if that's your actual pic then you look a few years younger than me and can be forgiven. I have appreciated your comments and input over the last few years.

20 Jun 2016 09:27:02
Got up bright and early got to shop for 9am to find its not in stock in my size. Gutted!

19 Jun 2016 18:37:15
Hi eds, apologies if you've covered this I've had a quick look and couldn't see, just wondered what any of your thoughts were on the recent comments from Coutinho about being happy under Klopp etc? For me it was reported as him committing to LFC but i didn't read it that way personally? Thanks!

{Ed001's Note - not read them sorry.}

19 Jun 2016 19:08:52
Fair enough! Basically this:

"I am grateful for everything Liverpool has done for me, ” Coutinho said.

“Am I happy there working under Klopp? It’s clear, he’s great. ”

Hmmm.

{Ed001's Note - impossible to say, but the only reason he wants to leave is for European football, not because of Klopp.}

19 Jun 2016 19:37:27
Just got to hope he gives it another year (hence the username) I think we would struggle to replace this year which would be really damaging.

19 Jun 2016 22:20:46
Nah just tell West Ham we'll swap him for Dimitri Payet lol.

19 Jun 2016 16:08:16
Been reading some articles on other sites and to say there was an air of negativity around the new season is an under statement. The general consensus is with Mourhino, Pep and Conte coming in to big clubs they will lift their teams to a new level and spend LFC under the table and we will be left with players of much lesser quality. Most paint a picture of LFC barley making the top 8 and being no where in the cups. Baring in mind these are supposedly LFC related sites and these articles are written by people with LFC bias its pretty negative and I think unnecessary stuff. Who knows who we or any other team will bring in and what impact they will have on their respective teams. Negativity out, positivity in. That's what we need.

19 Jun 2016 16:27:35
Agreed, it was the same pre-season 2013/ 14 and look how that panned out.

19 Jun 2016 16:39:12
Agree with Ron. Not predicting anything but the summer's resembling 2013 for me. A general feeling of underwhelming in most fifa players, Not that much activity Top managers coming in to other clubs ( Mourinho Pellegrini Van Gaal then) . Hopefully we can replicate the season 😁.

19 Jun 2016 16:42:07
As much as everyone should be positive, I've been positive for over 20 years. It hasn't done much.

I will continue to support as I always do but I'm very realistic now, just on rumours alone we are miles off who we are chasing.

Apparently Utd and Chelsea don't need champions league to sign quality but we do.
It's about selling the package to the player and I don't think we appeal to many at the moment.

Most football players in the world would have watched that Europa league final and probably thought **** that they are shit! Wouldn't you?

I don't think we will sign anyone of any real quality, because we can't get them through the door. I think fsg will hope Klopp can guide this squad to top 4 then try again next summer. If they are even the owners then.

Stay positive but be a realist.

19 Jun 2016 17:12:30
I agree with dontgo, it's about being realistic now more than anything. Whilst I accept that there is some unwarranted negativity, a lot of it actually makes sense. Let's face it, how excited where we when klopp came in and fans still to this day expect klopp to produce the goods so how does that make mourinho, pep and conte any different as they have achieved more success. Arsenal have a very solid squad now once they get a striker in they might win the league next season. City, utd and Chelsea will obviously get world class talent in and when they do, even when we play better than them, they still manage to finish above us. Then there's Spurs who finished second, and although it smells of our success in the 13-14 season, it's actually very different, because pochetino is a top class manager, and they didn't rely on one player that was sold that same summer. So at this very point in time there are 5 teams better than us. That's not being negative, that's being realistic. Only way to really push on with our squad is to buy players that genuinely improve our first 11, not add depth or quantity. The sad part is, as dontgo coutinho has pointed out, is other clubs that don't have CL football are still getting top players but we can't because our project isn't attractive enough, so there goes the 'he will come play for klopp' theory. Garry Neville was right about Liverpool Fc we are falling behind every season.

So although we can say look at the odd season here and there (which ultimately didn't amount to anything) we are on a downhill trajectory. We have been since we last one the league. So although there are a lot of glass half full fans, It's time to wake up and smell the coffee. We had a terrible season on paper, 8th and two cup finals got kenny sacked. I'm fully backing klopp but he has yet to prove he can adapt yet (tactically) . So unlike a lot of fans I won't be saying 'but we have klopp'.

Negativity comes off the back of off many negative events that have happened. So can you really complain? I'm looking forward to next season but before the summer began I was looking forward to klopp building his squad in preparation of the new season, now during the summer I've seen the players we are going for and they are not much different to when Rogers was here. Let's be honest.

19 Jun 2016 17:21:28
If Klopp's team gets the best out of the players we've got, like Ranieri did last season, we don't need to sign any more players.
Players like Lallana, Benteke, Ings, Ibe, Lovren, Clyne, Milner haven't really produced for LFC yet. Even Firmino and Coutinho could be more consistent and I hope Markovic stays and plays for Klopp.
You don't need to sign loads of players if you can get 95% out of the players we've got.

19 Jun 2016 17:37:08
I'm sorry but i don't believe spending or big name managers ever guarantees success.

We have a good team and with a few more additions we will be a really good team, with a spirit and manager capable of beating anybody.

Just because other teams have a few egotistical players and managers who have mega bucks swirling round them and plastic fans does not mean it guarantees success.

See chelsea last season, man united last 2 years, spurs 2013/ 14, arsenal every year over the last decade for evidence.

Its ultimately 11 men vs 11 men and all these lads can play to a high level. Its the finer details that make the difference, not crying about how city and chelsea can afford players with good stats on fifa and we can't.

19 Jun 2016 17:39:28
Difference with 2013/ 14 was we had a world class player in Suarez who drove the team on, we don't have anywhere near that. If we continue making mistakes in the transfer market then there is no reason to believe that we will do any better this year. Klopp is a good manager not a miracle worker.

19 Jun 2016 17:59:03
Im not buying our squad is good enough by a long chalk, we finished 8th that's the facts 8th, some of our players are good on any given day but everyday? Not for me, everyone will be busy buying quality this summer and without the right players brought in 8th might be where we are again, i hope i'm wrong i really do but people can't keep using Leicester as a barometer of success as that will never happen again in our lifetimes this coming season will prove that it was a one off, we need to trim the squad and replace with proven quality.

19 Jun 2016 18:05:03
Mr woolback, not spending big when there is a quality player will definitely spell foolhardy.

19 Jun 2016 18:24:03
Spot on, Woolly. As Klopp said, you don't need 11 great players to win a game. We need 11 players who will play great and give 100% every game, making 1100%, which is what LC has proven. You are not sure if 11 best players will all give 100% every time, making it leafy less than 1100%, which is what City, Chelsea and Utd have shown last season. This is where we have the upper hand, IMO. We may need quality in certain areas and we should do that but said quality should be ready to give his all every time or we will not get there.

19 Jun 2016 18:25:10
Suarez missed the first 6 (5 league) games of that season (2013/ 4) so he was not spurring the team on until October.

19 Jun 2016 18:43:34
Why do we keep comparing ourselves to Leicester. If it happened more often then it would be a valid point but it isn't. If it where possible, why hasn't it happened for us so far. Again let's be realistic, we can't do a Leicester, and we won't be the new Dortmund. If we are to achieve success it will be different, as the variables are much different in our case.

Fans saying look at the 13-14 season, or look at Leicester, or look at what he did at Dortmund are the same ridiculous fans that say Rome wasn't built in a day in anticipation that we will achieve success in the long term. It never materialises but they still exist. i'm not saying it's not possible, but the early signs suggest it might not be happening anytime soon.

{Ed001's Note - why do people keep saying it doesn't happen often? Hard working teams with a lack of quality win regularly. Chelsea relied on hard work and one flair player in Hazard. Fergie's last team were mostly crap. You can keep going back and finding examples of it. They are not about the money, none of them, or Man City would just win every year.}

19 Jun 2016 18:32:50
Ron

Best out of Lallana and Milner? lallana doesn't score and and hasn't been doing from 3 good years. He has been equally poor for England ( 1 goal in 25 Caps ) . He works hard for the first 20 mts till his battery drain and then the team carry him for the rest of 70 Mts.

Klopp did struggle at Dortmund once he sold Gotzd and Lewa to Bayern. Quality wins over anything. Simple as that.

19 Jun 2016 19:15:24
Again Ed, both Ferguson and Chelsea relied on consistency, a solid midfield, a decent defence, a good keeper and a world class player. None of which we have.

{Ed001's Note - what world class player did United have in the final year? Consistency is developed by keeping teams together and letting them learn each other's game. We have bought players for those 3 areas, so we are moving in the right direction. As for the world class player, I would say having Firmino, Couts and Sturridge is better than one class player.}

19 Jun 2016 21:26:07
I agree with some of the points and can understand the realistic expectations, I have them too but still want to be positive. Ed001 is right. We have brought players in for the areas that were causing concern aside from left back, with the transfer market not yet open who knows who will end up where and what impact they will have. The biggest transfer of last season was Sterling, he was poor all season. Costa had one good season, now he is unlikely to be at Chelsea next after a poor season and hinting he wants to leave. United paid 60 million or whatever it was for Di Maria, he is quality but just didn't work at United. Big money signings do not necessarily mean success. A consistant team sheet with determined players mixed with quality, which we do have, will become a strength. It seems that expectations are low, I hope the the team proves people wrong. But I feel that unless we sign a so called super star for every position on the pitch some will not be happy.

19 Jun 2016 21:56:49
Ok so people think Leicester only ever happens once and the only way to success is spending hundreds of millions every transfer window.

Like the second best team last season-Spurs.
Their transfers in last summer:

Dele Alli - teenager midfielder never played at this level from loan.
Kevin Wimmer
Toby Alderweireld
Kieran Trippier
Son Heung Min
Clinton N'jie.

All world class players 12 months ago. 🙄.

19 Jun 2016 22:00:22
In my opinion, I think we should be positive. Bare in mind that we have had fine margins in terms of our success in the last few years. As stated. King Kenny got to 2 cup finals (1 of which we won and the other was really close) and for the record. those 2 finals and finishing 8th didn't get Kenny sacked. it was the Suarez/ Evra situation and how it was handled that got him sacked.

When we nearly and should won the league just recently, it was the West Brom result and Hendersons sending off late that season that derailed things for me. Not forgetting our former manager being inept when it counted.

Look at the timing of Sakho's ban, that didn't help imo. However, I will admit we bottled it in the Europa league final. My personal disappointment was with Milner in that match.

Also, who would have thought that we could get Klopp as our manager 8/ 9 months ago. Anyone who would have seriously suggested it would have been laughed out of town. and look now. he is our manager. Not forgetting that Ancelotti was also spoken to about the job.

I don't think we are as far away as it seems, however we do need to stop silly mistakes.

I'm so glad we have another keeper (who is reported to be good) as Migs is a disaster waiting to happen.

I appreciate being realistic, at the time I don't think we are too far off!

19 Jun 2016 22:38:52
Looking at our first eleven I don't think we have the quality to maintain any sort of momentum to challenge for top 4. You need a 25+ goal striker for starters, Daniel could be that but that's relying on him having a fully fit season which is doubtful. Origi and Ings are miles away from being of that level. Midfield is still physically weak and far too easily dominated and pushed off the ball. Far too inconsistent and are only good if we're on top. LB is still a serious problem and I don't see Chilwell solving that issue. Karius is a good buy, especially at that price. Matip maybe but can be hit and miss himself, especially when he's trying to play from the back. Too many ok players in our squad, like Lallana but not enough quality to change a game. Obviously buys could change that and I wait with baited breath for the right buys to add the right quality to the right areas and I may reassess come August. Players would have to be of a better level than Zielinski though for me to reevaluate. Not to say he won't come good but he's not at that level yet.

19 Jun 2016 23:03:26
Sorry eds 1 I Disagree. Milner, Can, Henderson, Firmino, Coutinho, Sturridge or Milner, Can, Hendo Lallana, Suarez, Origi/ Ings I know which one I'd prefer and which one PL defenders would be most scared of. I'm not saying Luis should be that one World Class player but it just makes such a difference to the team sheet.

19 Jun 2016 23:12:50
To be fair ed, United had RVP, who at the time, was world class quality.

2 seasons ago, Chelsea had not only Hazard, but also Matic, Fabregas and Costa. Costa was scoring goals for fun, and Fabregas was feeding the goals to Costa on a silver platter. Matic was imperious in midfield and protected the back four very well.

19 Jun 2016 22:45:19
I sincerely think we're going to have a cracking season. We saw a huge improvement under Klopp almost immediately, he didn't have a full season.

I believe even with the players we have now, we're going to do pretty damn good. i'm not going to sit here and say we'll win the league but let's be honest anything is possible. we have a top manager who can get the best out of the lads. We don't need massive names. means nothing. its all about how the team is managed, what tactics are implemented and training etc. Klopp will bring success I have no doubt in my mind. no negativity from me. first time in a long time i'm genuinely excited about the season to come.

19 Jun 2016 19:46:34
Leicester might lose all three star players this summer and we will have to see how they do next season without those players.

20 Jun 2016 00:43:11
One thing people have underestimated is the effect on players once a number of players leave.

I'd expect most players to realise they have to earn their place as opposed to turn up and play every week.

I can see Klopp implementing that on top of last season; he's not had to show his ruthless side yet.

On top of that having Sturridge fit is going to be a huge boost!

20 Jun 2016 01:31:28
We can only hope Sturridge stays fit. When on form I'd consider him world class. I think Origi will end up something special. Along with Ings. If we manage to keep hold of Coutinho then even better. He's still improving. Klopp will bring the best out of him, same goes for firmino.

I don't care what team it is, if you have those players on form running at your defence its time to get concerned.

We have the quality to go all the way. Keep positive!

20 Jun 2016 07:39:12
Ron, how can you say ings hasn't really produced when he's been injured most of the season? So with your way of thought does that mean Gomez had a poor season aswell?

20 Jun 2016 13:26:19
What I mean pegleg is we haven't seen the best of him yet because he's been injured.

20 Jun 2016 13:54:26
Sorry I misunderstood you, that makes sense now.

19 Jun 2016 01:31:28
Realy want one of neves or tielemans? Liverpool showing any interest?

19 Jun 2016 18:44:21
Unfortunately not, we are going for zielinski instead. Yeah.

19 Jun 2016 16:41:39
Neves has been interest of Liverpool but as much as every top clubs. I can't see it happening as Porto has ruled out any sale unless a ridiculous offer is made.
Teilemans has been looked at by Spurs if I am right.
We are stuck at Udinese with Zielinski mate.

19 Jun 2016 13:09:31
Hi eds just wondering have we a replacement lined up for ian ayre I remember a while back David dein was mentioned when comolli was at the club cheers.

{Ed002's Note - There has been no appointment yet.}

19 Jun 2016 12:05:14
LFC want Balotelli gone, sold and off wage bill completely. We all know this and think 99% agree too.

But how do we think this will actually pan out? I'm not sure apart from one Itallian side anyone wants him and if they do I can see wages stopping a move.

What are your predictions EDs? If we do see him sold is it always the case that, that's it or could it be that we'd still sub part wages? Does that exist once a player is 'sold'?

Thanks.

19 Jun 2016 12:36:49
We'll either sub part of his wages or let him go for no transfer fee. Hopefully not both.

I can see Turkey, China or the Middle East as likely destinations, maybe not immediately, but in the next couple of years.

And he'll probably make a mess of all of those places too. Such a waste of ability.

19 Jun 2016 12:53:03
Surprisingly he still commands a lot of respect amongst Italian teams. They've seen the best of him and the worst of him. Whilst here in the UK we've only really seen the worst of him! The problem is, only the lesser sides in Italy are willing to gamble on him now. And they can't stump up the fee or the wages. Still though, he may have loan offers from there.

Another option is Turkey. I actually think that is his best option from a career perspective. He is still a household name and the Turkish league is trying to raise it's profile. Bringing players like RVP, Kuyt, Quaresma and Meireles to the league is all well and good, but they just paint a picture that the Turkish league is Eurasia's answer to the MLS; in that it is a retirement home! A player like Balotelli who has struggled but in theory should still be in his prime would go a long way to disproving such a stereotype.

Then you have to consider the Qataris who can pay him a fortune in wages, but offer very limited competition. Like Turkey they are looking to raise their profile, but they are slightly behind the Turkish league right now despite their controversial hosting of the world cup in 6 years time.

His only other option is probably China. I wouldn't mind betting there are lots of options in China, and if he wants money then that is probably the best option by far. But the league is of such a low quality that his career would essentially be over in a top league. Like the Qatar option, they just can't offer a good level of competition.

Either way though, Balotelli will have options, and plenty of offers on the table. This is a player who has played for AC Milan, Inter Milan, Manchester City and Liverpool. A player who has spearheaded an Italian national team deep into an international tournament and scored some absolute worldies in the process. The problem is, no top clubs want to gamble on him now. For a team/ league who are trying to raise their profile though, he is still a very attractive proposition. There will be offers. He just has to decide where he wants to go, and whether football is more important to him than money.

19 Jun 2016 13:13:10
It's sad because there is a player in there somewhere but unfortunately his bad attitude will never let him be consistent.

19 Jun 2016 15:55:51
I agree Farno, if money hadnt got to his head and wasn't such a fool he could of been excellent, part of me in a way when he first joined was quite chuffed, i thought he was going to sort his game out and smash it. how wrong was i. Sooner he's gone the better, but he will go. somewhere will want him. i hope.

19 Jun 2016 17:38:51
Those teams take on imbeciles like quaresma and the such like so why not balotelli?

19 Jun 2016 21:38:21
How long does he have left on his contract.

19 Jun 2016 04:18:41
Hi ed001, not really Liverpool-related, but.

Do you believe England has some kind of deep-lying cultural problem that is stunting their development of good coaches and managers - in a range of sports? An English manager hasn't won the premiership since 92. England rugby has a big conveyer belt of young talent yet they've grossly underachieved in the last few decades. With their same WC team, but a new Aussie coach, they just won a 3-game tournament against Australia - in Australia - against the same team that dumped them out of their home world cup in the group stages. The England cricket team lost 5-0 in the Ashes a couple of years ago, dumped their English coach, appointed an Aussie coach, and suddenly retained the Ashes a couple of years later and have enjoyed a resurgence. The best English manager that England FA could find for the national team was Roy Hodgson (! )

Do you agree there is a problem?

{Ed001's Note - only in those major sports, purely because there is a prejudice against anyone who hasn't played the game at a high level. So the pool of talent is limited. One day it will be realised that what makes a good player is a totally different skillset from what makes a good coach or manager.}

19 Jun 2016 06:22:33
Ye but the aussie team actually sucks.

19 Jun 2016 09:46:44
Everything related to the English Football team is sickening.

The wags, egos, journalists, veer bellies and the simple fact that England think they are better than what they are is sickening.

Hope our players don't get a game to stay fit, and hope that England do nothing.

19 Jun 2016 10:06:33
I'd say if you're looking for "cultural" reasons the only reason is the language barrier. In football most coaches from other countries have no problem coming to the premier league because they all speak the language from childhood. Since 92 the premier league has gradually been positioning itself as the most lucrative league to work in. So the best coaches will want to work here which makes it harder for English coaches to win the premier league.

As for all that other Aussie nonsense from other sports, it's mostly as Ed001 says, those sports generally appoint ex-players.

19 Jun 2016 10:19:42
Da sh. You say sickening. So if your boss offered you £10,000 a week to do the job you do. You would say no?
The journalist side of it all is not something that the players have a lot of control over.
There is a fine line between thinking your good to thinking your better than you are. If any team went out with the mentality of were going to lose. They surely would. They have to believe they can win.

Not very patriotic to say your hope is England won't win and do nothing.

19 Jun 2016 10:21:01
Well said Davey #werenotenglishwearescouse👍.

19 Jun 2016 10:32:03
Said it before and said it again 80% of the time the best coaches and managers are players who didn't make it.

When you have an ex player become a coach its usually at 35 when you have a non player coach they usually started at 18.

Wenger, mourinho, klopp, Evans, fergie, emery, allegri.

I'll change it slightly to either non players or players who never reached the top as player but did as manager.

Of course there is a list of ex tip players who have made managed or good coaches but the very best are usually people who never made it because of there desire to just be in the game.

Is someone like Stevie prepared to cine back to Liverpool and put the cones out for the players. To collect the corner flags. Coaching is a good job but uts not without its crappy tasks, esepcially when you have to set the nets up at 8am in the pissin rain haha. Your also usually doing a lot of free work, you have coaches even in league 1 working 2/ 3 years for free before they get a paid position. You hear certain players like lambert use to fit tires etc a lot of coaches are working 9-5 and then coming in there own time. for. free to coach players who are getting paid a lot of money. That desire ti be there keeps them there.

19 Jun 2016 22:26:02
Just to add to this the better manages usually follow better managers ( i mean played under or assisted) there's quite a few examples of this if u think about it.