Liverpool Banter Archive March 19 2016

19 Mar 2016 23:28:05
I know we have just bought a right back in Clyne last year and also have flanno who I think should be our first choice. Was wondering what people's thoughts are on Seamus Coleman? Maybe I'm being biased being Irish but I think he's one of if not the best RB in the league.

20 Mar 2016 00:14:15
Yes He is arguably the best in the league from past two years.

20 Mar 2016 00:29:35
Never saw the attraction tbh. People rave about him but I don't understand why.

20 Mar 2016 05:24:34
The guy can't defend, just like any defender under Martinez. I'll take Flanno over him any day because I can actually rely on him to do his job of keeping attackers quiet, something defenders under Martinez know nothing about, as we saw again yesterday vs Arsenal.

20 Mar 2016 06:54:51
Redohio

That's plain rubbish. I guess you did not watch the match yesterday. It was nothing to do with Everton defending. They had 3 CM al positionally inept and poor leaving acres of spaces for Arsenal players to run in between.
McCarthy - Cleverly - Besic. All hard work and no brains.
Aa per your logic Moreno would be a better player than Baines then?

{Ed001's Note - but that is defending. Poor coaching is causing them to position themselves badly. Coleman is suffering through it as well.}

20 Mar 2016 07:46:12
I disagree there mate. Cleverly is a very poor player while McCarthy was never famous for his positioning. He always plays alongside Barry and Besic was hopeless yesterday through out to such extent Martinez subbed him after 45mts to bring in Stones and change it to back three.
Everton don't have a specialist player there and you need one. Arsenal themselves started with two holding players and were running riot in the middle.

{Ed001's Note - Besic is a centre back playing out of position. A good coach would work with those hopeless players and teach them positioning, as Ranieri has done with Leicester. You do not need a specialist holding player, that is just crap from the football manager generation. Plenty of teams manage without one, Barca don't have one, Busquets has matured into an excellent player, but he is not a holding midfielder and has very little in the way of defensive positional sense. Barca simply play a different way, as do Leicester. Arsenal started with two central midfielders, neither are truly a holding player, you might want to try watching more of them and stop listening to moronic pundits that are there commentating because they do not understand the game.}

20 Mar 2016 10:17:46
How u wish we have Delafeou. He is such a brilliant player to watch and his crosses will yoeld a lot of goals esp now we have non existent width.

19 Mar 2016 21:13:03
General question for the Eds based on their matchday experience. Who do you think are the loudest fans in England? Was at Watford v Stoke today and the Stoke fans are incredibly loud. The Watford fans were silent in comparison.

{Ed002's Note - It is measured every season and the the start of this season were 1. Liverpool, 2. MUFC. 3. Aston Villla, 4. Stoke and 5. Everton.}

19 Mar 2016 23:12:03
Who is this measured by Ed002?

{Ed002's Note - The University of Hull did it for a couple of years, Loughborough have done it, Talksport had someone do it.}

19 Mar 2016 21:26:10
Have to say that's surprising we are top. Thought palace would be somewhere near the top of the list.

19 Mar 2016 23:48:50
Liverpool typically come out the loudest in the studies that measure average decibel levels. The OT holds 30000 more fans than Anfield, so you know that United fans are talking shite when they say OT has better atmosphere. And that's even when our atmosphere is at an all time low.

{Ed007's Note - You might want to ignore the Talk$hit report Nick - they've got Liverpool 18th!!!

www.talksport.com/football/loudest-fans-premier-league-revealed-150805161557?p=1

20 Mar 2016 00:11:19
Can't imagine villa will be any more! Very subjective though, must depend on the game, where the recording device was, when in the game and many more factors.

20 Mar 2016 01:06:10
I would assume they record the sound levels of every single game, right? Otherwise wouldn't it be inaccurate?

{Ed007's Note - They must do or it's just complete balderdash.}

20 Mar 2016 00:30:54
Is that just premier league ed or the whole of England?

I reckon Portsmouth are the loudest I've heard.

{Ed001's Note - does it really matter? It is just nonsense.}

19 Mar 2016 23:54:40
Cheers for the response Ed002.

19 Mar 2016 17:23:07
Heard that Firmino is out of tomorrow game and will withdraw from Brazil squad as well.

19 Mar 2016 18:29:33
Ffs. True ed?

{Ed002's Note - He was rmoved from the Brazil squad on Friday. The club has not said anything but it would be a reasonable assumption that if he is not fit for the Brazil squad he won't be fit for Liverpool.}

19 Mar 2016 19:18:52
Ok mate cheers, I take it you don't no the seriousness of the injury or if it's long Term?

{Ed002's Note - The club has said NOTHING yet.}

19 Mar 2016 20:44:45
It's a bruise.

19 Mar 2016 20:47:59
Shows how much reporters guess, echo reporting he has a hamstring injury, other news outlets saying bruised bone in his back.

19 Mar 2016 15:50:10
Does anyone follow the Swiss league? Wandering if anyone has Seen Bree Embolo play on a regular basis (incl, obviously the Eds)?

A mate of mine who follows the Swiss leagues tipped him as one to watch, but rather than get swayed by YouTube, I thought I'd ask here first. Is he an out and out striker or does he offer flexibility up front?

Not saying we need a striker, in fact we could probably do with fewer, but just interested in the youngster.

19 Mar 2016 14:48:11
i asked the eds how much we paid for Couthino and what a buy he has turned out to be, especially for the price under £10 mill, i wonder how much he would be worth now, as I've said before he will only get better in the next few seasons and with studge back in the team and formino and even origi with his movement our little magician can work his magic and with some better players to come into our team in the summer then his stock will go higher and higher, as i said before its to our gain and inter's loss, but that's football in a nut shell, when suarez was here and he and studge was playing Couthino was in his element, it shows though that he needs players ahead of him with pace and movement which suarez had and also studge has got, its one of the reasons we ended up 2nd in the prem, if we get a player along the lines of suarez with his pace and movement then i can see us being a force if we get the right players, i think jamie vardy would get better if he came to us because he has the pace and movement and there has to be players out there who have the pace and movement that Couthino could thrive on.

19 Mar 2016 14:58:40
You could play Origi in that role as he would run between the channels. He wouldn't score some spectacular genius goals like Sturridge. But if Coutinho is on form, he would set up plenty. Off the ball Origi ll work very hard.

19 Mar 2016 15:04:26
Origi and Ings provide pace, hardwork and movement to thrive along with Couts.

19 Mar 2016 16:24:54
£8.5m plus agents fees etc.

19 Mar 2016 21:59:08
Wait for Ings to come into the fold next season!

19 Mar 2016 11:00:46
Ed01, If you got some time to spare mate.
Kenny or Souness, Better player or most important player?
Souness was the best some say.

Your thoughts mate.

{Ed001's Note - no doubt that Kenny was the best player ever to play for Liverpool. Souness is the best midfielder ever, but Kenny was a class apart from anyone.}

19 Mar 2016 11:20:04
Cheers mate, Another one if you could, How was He ( Souness) different from Molby?

{Ed001's Note - Molby just stood in the centre circle and everything went to him, somehow. The play seemed to be drawn to him like a magnet and he was the fulcrum of everything. His passing was incredible. But he offered little in the way of workrate. He is the only player I have ever seen who lost weight after retirement....
Souness offered more all round though, he could get up and down and get stuck in. He was a proper central midfielder, with no real weakness. He put the fear of god into anyone who faced him. The Wembley defeat to Wimbledon would never have happened with him in the side, because he would have scared them. He could be brutal. The likes of Roy Keane were just pale imitations of him. In these days of specialist positions I doubt we will ever see the likes again.}

19 Mar 2016 11:38:07
We did a see a similar pair in Alonso - Gerrard may be Ed01, I have heard from an old frnd of mine, Alonso was the closest to Molby when it comes to passing.
He rates Souness ahead of everyone. Without Souness your midfield isn't complete. Such was his impact on the team and game.

{Ed001's Note - Alonso similar, but a different type of player, probably a slightly better player overall to be honest.
Gerrard is not like Souness, he was always poor defensively, while Souness provided excellent protection to the defence.}

19 Mar 2016 13:04:12
Jan could just simply stand still and ping a 40yard pass to the feet of our player his passing was freighting, I've never seen a player who can pass better than molby IMO.

19 Mar 2016 13:24:32
Do you think people's views on Souness as a player are influenced by his managerial stint at our club as some folk would put Gerrard and say Molby ahead.
I agree our best midfielder ever, love him in our side right now and the lad could finish.

{Ed001's Note - yes, that has very much coloured people's thinking. I can't forgive him for selling his story to the S*n, but he was a supreme force as a player.}

19 Mar 2016 13:43:16
I read an article some days so by someone who had seen all the greats play, Kenny, Souness and those during that time. He is adamant on Souness as the best and most important player. He claims the Liverpool team were in-complete without Souness and he sets the tone.

19 Mar 2016 14:27:55
ed001 you mentioned souness and roy keane who was defo a pale comparison to souness, he was a proper midfield general and the one who got back at an opposing player who drty fouled one of our players, i would have loved to have seen souness v keane as you know there would have only been one winner, these posts have brought back some good memories of what our team was like in those days, the game has changed but what a team we had in those days, hey ed001 can you remember that famous photo of crazy horse Emlyn with that big smile of his after winning the cup he was in the dressing room, and what you said about molby he was one of the best passes of the ball at the time, he reminded me of matt latissier sorry for spelling with some of the goals big jan scored, its amazing how we kept buying players that were so good and i'm hoping klopp will bring some good players to liverpool.

{Ed001's Note - it was down to good scouting. They looked for players that fitted the way we played, rather than just good players. Keane was an excellent player, one of the best of the modern era, but Souness was a special player. One of the all time greats. Rubbish manager though.}

19 Mar 2016 15:01:54
That brings up another question to you Ed01, Since the op is about past players.
Viera? There has always been this comparison drawn between Keane and Viera.

{Ed001's Note - I would take Vieira every time, though only just. Though Keane does have the advantage of having been able to play in the defence as well. It is a very close decision. Both fantastic players on their day. Vinny Jones admitted that Vieira was the man who made him decide to retire. He said that he loved the battles and getting stuck in with people like Keane, but then Vieira joined the league and he went in for a challenge with Vieira and bounced straight off him.}

19 Mar 2016 15:43:12
Hi Ed

I think you would agree Souness had an aura about him when he was at Liverpool, he terrified other midfielders. He could tackle, head, pick a pass and smash it from 30 yards better than anyone around at the time. He had an air of invincibility, as Shankly would put it. People think that Roy Keane was nasty, well he was a bit of a pussy cat compaired to Souness, Souness even had a nasty streak that would put Vinnie Jones to shame. As the Ed said if Souness was playing in the final against Jones then either Jones would have gone off on a stretcher or he would have been played off the park, in either case we would have never had been bullied like we were.
Molby was a totally different player to Souness, total opposites, Molby was like a magnet to the ball, his passing was sublime. He did not have to move much as every Liverpool player knew to give him the ball as much as possible and he would ping it around the pitch with pin point accuracy.
As Midfielders go Souness was probably the best in his position, probably only Gerrard came close, add to the Midfield, Mcdermott, Ray Kennedy and Case and you have one of the best midfields of all time, with two of the most underated midfielders in Liverpools history in Mcdermott and Kennedy.

Evered.

19 Mar 2016 16:08:33
Evered

I don't think Terry was underrated mate. He is certainly in the top 10. I agree with rest of what you said. There was this list recently published by a daily of top 50 Liverpool players of all time and guess what they ranked both Souness and Kenny up top.
Souness couldn't stay for a longer period at the Cohn else he would have been all time great. Modern day football has many players whose similar to Kenny.
But how many Souness do we have now? His positioning was top top class.

19 Mar 2016 18:55:19
Didn't Souness break some blokes jaw on the field once? Unseen by every one in Anfield as well.

Sure it was payback for a bad challenge in the first leg of a European tie.

19 Mar 2016 19:18:34
I can tell you my memories of liverpool in their heyday if anyone is interested? I remember being at anfield to see the reds destroy Tottenham, who had both Ricky Villa and Ardilles in their team. We won 7 nil, and were still trying to score more up to the very last minute. It was sep 1978 and the weather was beautiful, along with the football. We has Dalglish, souness, stevie heighway, jimmy case, ray kennedy, clemence, terry mcdermott etc. This was the game were Stevie Heighway got immotalised as running down the wing, constantly tormenting spurs. We literally clapped all the way through the game. It was a masterclass of pure football, truly magnificent just to be there. I remember vividly Terry Mac heading a ball off the line, the ball got passed out to Stevie Heighway 'on the wing', and he ran the full length of the pitch side stepping everyone in his wake. A glance up, glorious cross, and who else headed the ball in? Terry mcdermott! He had also run the full length of the pitch to score a fabulous header. The team had skill, balance, endeavour and pgenominal workrate. If Klopp can emulate this type of team, trust me guys. you are in for a memory to last a lifetime. I believe Klopp can do it. have faith!

19 Mar 2016 19:27:45
I would just say to look for the molby goal v man united. Ran, yes ran, from his own half, went past 3 or 4 players and banged it in the far top corner, kop end 😀

Awesome

Crooky.

19 Mar 2016 20:17:13
Steve Heighway is from Skem :-)

19 Mar 2016 23:13:00
great post Tel 1949 love reading about the great Liverpool sides of the past, but I do hope to see another great team in my lifetime, agree with you about klopp we have the perfect man in charge to help us achieve our aims.

19 Mar 2016 19:30:47
Mick, The way I heard the story was that it was a European tie away. One of their players had injured one of ours in the first leg at Anfield. Souness decided to exact revenge.
The player was carried off with a broken leg in the first meaningful challenge of the game. The ref didn't even give a foul against Souness. Not sure where I heard this, someone's autobiography maybe? Anyone know?

19 Mar 2016 19:46:22
Hey Ed1, this player isn't in the same league as the names mentioned above but I wonder what your view of Jamie Redknapp is?

He was one of our senior players when I first started following Liverpool and I wonder if he was as good as my immature mind assumed.

{Ed001's Note - he had ability but lacked work ethic. He would coast through games at times, his attitude was about doing just enough, rather than doing everything he could. Sad waste of a career that he could have had. He could have been one of the best, but he was happy to just do enough, never going that little bit extra you need to be a great player. His passing and vision were top class, but his obsession with dropping off and taking the ball off a centre back's toe was moronic. For me I just remember the frustration of watching someone with so much ability truly waste it by not knowing how to use it to its best effect.}

19 Mar 2016 22:07:29
Loving the stories guys. Comparing previous players to ours, where would you go with Robson and Gerrard Ed?

{Ed001's Note - I wouldn't be able to compare them, Robson was a top class player that was injury prone, which meant he never achieved anything like as much as he should have. Great player though on his day. What he did have over Gerrard is leadership. Robson was an inspirational captain, rather than an inspirational player, with the armband.}

19 Mar 2016 22:59:27
Hi ed,

This is a very interesting topic you are debating. My dad has been going to anfield since the days of St. John and roger hunt! Went to Rome in 77 and has obviously seen the best to ever grace anfield! I was asking him the other day who he thought was the best player he had ever seen over the years and obviously I expected him to say kenny, Gerrard or Souness! However, he said he felt that Suarez was the greatest player he had ever seen! He said he's an absolute genius and the most naturally gifted footballer he'd ever seen! Would love to know your feelings on this!

{Ed001's Note - on pure ability he would get the nod, but football is more than that. For starters his attitude stank, constantly fighting with the club to get a move off the pitch, constantly doing stupid things on the pitch. He could be a liability. That has to effect how he is judged.}

20 Mar 2016 10:48:01
Cheers Ed1, realised you were probably tucked up in bed when I posted that. Thanks for going back to it.

{Ed001's Note - sadly at my age, there is a very good chance of that being the case!}

20 Mar 2016 11:20:32
With the mention of Jamie Redknapp there Ed. with his style of play. Would that be solely down to him or was it the way he was coached, or had the team set out by the manager?

{Ed001's Note - the way he was. It was all his own choice to keep taking it off the centre back's toe for instance.}

20 Mar 2016 09:43:14
BigbadBen (and those anon that disagreed) here's an Echo report of the incident I've found to back up my memory http://goo.gl/Uqg8vR.

19 Mar 2016 10:21:43
Just something that I've been thinking about for a few years now, and feel with Dortmund on the horizon it's worth a post:

When will teams start to realise the importance of an away goal?

So often in European games the away team will sit back and look to nullify all damage rather than take the game to their opponents- United at our place a case in point- but even if their game plan comes off, they are left in trouble.

Would you take a 0-0 in Dortmund? The media would hype it up as some kind of great result but in reality if Dortmund were to score early at Anfield, as is very plausible, we'd need to score 2 without reply. A very tough ask when leaving yourselves exposed to Auba and Reus on the counter.
What's more in such cases where the home team goes 1 up early on in the second leg, it seems to put them into a false sense of security- we very, very nearly went out to Ausburg just through that! They had a very good chance late on, if I remember correctly, which would have put them through on away goals.

It's at home that a team should look to play defensively. That 2-0 at home to United was our best European result in a very long time, because it put us in a position where we could kill the game off with one mistake or moment of magic in the second leg- which is exactly what happened.

I hope we go to Dortmund and really take the game to them. We'll concede 2 or 3 but I'd genuinely rather a 3-2 loss than a 0-0 there.
For one it's not the end of the world if they nick a goal at Anfield, and for another we never seem to play well when looking to hold on to a solid, but unspectacular first leg result, Ausburg and Stoke both this season are cases in point.

19 Mar 2016 10:56:46
The thing is Dortmund don't concede goals and score plenty I would certainly take a nil nil coming back home, the only way I see us beating them is by the odd goal.

19 Mar 2016 10:58:50
On fifa, or more recently on pes, i throw everything into away leg especialli if first. Away goaks kill it! But then again it is a video and doesn't account for travel, home team attacking etc.

19 Mar 2016 11:21:40
Dortumand ll score at Anfield. The only question Could we score an away goal?

19 Mar 2016 11:27:20
Dortmund are favourites imo but are beatable as are every team . Away goals are the key in European games as they are worth two in effect .

19 Mar 2016 14:35:34
if i remember rightly liverpool always went for the away goal in the 70s and 80s at the time our manager knew the importance of the away goal, in my opinion i just think some managers from abroad have made the game into a chess game were they go out not to concede a goal instead of going out to win the game and then try to win the game at home, so they try to get a 0-0 away from home and then try to win the game at home with the fans behind them, its only my opinion i'm not saying its right or wrong, but i would prefer our team to go for the win away from home, the man utd game proved it because once we scored they needed to score 4 goals, which proves the worth of the away goal.

20 Mar 2016 05:36:17
I'm old school too and always believed that not conceding an away goal or a score of 0-0 in the first leg at home, gave you the advantage going into the second leg on the road. Same way, I feel an away goal is always crucial to score as it sets the tone for the return home leg.

19 Mar 2016 05:05:02
Great to hear about Flanno re-signing.

Aside from his actual footballing ability, I love Flanno because he's one of the few non-metrosexual and non-wussy footballers left in the world. They began began to slowly die out when the likes of Keane, Scholes, Vieira, Carragher, Neville and et al. retired. Great players made even better by their masculine no-nonsense approach to the game. Scholes: "Get the hell off social media with your stupid apologies, and just play your football like you're supposed to! "

Meanwhile, you've got stupid dressing room selfies from Arsenal players after standard wins (if you're looking for a single indication of why Arsenal bottle it, that's it right there), and Adam Lallana on TV wearing an embarrassing grin as he caresses his face with Nivea skin lotion. *Shudder*

So kudos to you Flanno.

{Ed001's Note - I really hope he is in the next Nivea ad now....}

19 Mar 2016 06:19:38
You missed Gerrard.

19 Mar 2016 06:24:54
Lol I wouldn't mind, it's just the way that Lallana massages his face more than anything.

19 Mar 2016 06:28:37
Yeah I probably should have added Gerrard. yeah I should have.

19 Mar 2016 08:51:42
Carragher, socks down, black boots, grade 2 all over,


Standard.

19 Mar 2016 10:03:41
I wish lallana would massage my face.

19 Mar 2016 12:47:32
You are spot on, there are far too many metrosexuals in football nowadays. Academy players like sterling are usually worse because they're even cockier than the older ones.

We are very lucky to have flanno who has both ability and masculinity.

19 Mar 2016 01:42:32
Someone mentioned something about offering origi a start, which I feel he deserves! I wonder if we could adapt a form of the narrow diamond, with origi through the middle as a high striker, firmino in behind on the left and Sturridge on the right, but I guess as 'inside forwards' - Sturridge operates there a way and did so before effectively. Coutinho vent really, but a little deeper, like where he picked the ball up for that mazy run in the second half against United, and hopefully be able to pick some passes to the runners ahead. And can and hendo sitting in their recent positions, which has worked so well. Origi and firmino will put effort in, maybe even origi covering one side and firmino the other, coutinho stops the opposing holding player be a pivot, and hendo and can do the usual! Think it Could be worth a try against the kind of teams we normally sturggle to break down.

19 Mar 2016 06:25:16
Formation is no relevant. On the ball they all swap positions and occupy spaces. Off the ball they need to maintain a shape. And that's where we show nativity or lack of discipline compared to Leicester ( The only team who plays with only 2 CM home and away )
This is a system which we need to practice. Players such as Coutinho, Sturridge and Firmino aren't great tracking back and maintaining Shape when the opposition has possession.

19 Mar 2016 10:24:36
Only Ilori shows nativity off the ball 😇.

18 Mar 2016 21:48:29
Ed001 thank you for your excellent match reviews always informative. watching the match this morning has convinced me even more that countinho should be given a free role to do his damage, his goal came from a wide position and that dribble from the middle was breathtaking, his partnership with firmino is getting better with each game and once he and sturridge get it tune we shall all benefit, no question we thoroughly deserved to go through over the two legs, massive game next ed so we will need your post match ritual to work for us again.

{Ed001's Note - I love watching Coutinho play. Yes he can be inconsistent, but that is often due to his team mates not offering him any movement.}

19 Mar 2016 12:54:09
Phil works really hard for the team though so for me he's not an inconsistent 'luxury' player.

19 Mar 2016 00:08:57
One good thing about Dortmund draw is that they don't have superman in goals. don't discount just how many top saves he made iver the legs, few are capable of saves like that. Honestly haven't watched dortmund for ages but if they still have weidenfeller then that is a tremendous downgrade from de geam.

19 Mar 2016 02:36:28
some of our finishing was poor as well, we will have to make every chance count next round, each save gets DDG closer to real Madrid and hastens utd's demise, after all they are bad enough with him, without him they have no chance.

19 Mar 2016 02:38:38
i have watched them play, they are a joy to watch, 3 passes and they have a shot at the goal, midfielders running at you from all direction ad the defense is absolute superb, can read the ball. along with Seville they are the toughest team in the europa cup.
I am just happy how far we have come in 6 months under klopp. its going to be a great display to the beautiful game.

19 Mar 2016 06:32:07
Dortumand are sensation going forward. They have players who are faster than light. 67 goals were scored in all completions between Reus and Aubameyang this season. They play counter attacking football and they are deadly best. They have some brilliant midfielders.