Liverpool Banter Archive October 19 2016

19 Oct 2016 22:26:03
Hello to all!
I wonder if Sturridge going to be still a Liverpool player after the january window (or maybe after the summer)?
Great player, but doesn't seem to fit the directon we took with our style is changed.

19 Oct 2016 23:05:22
I wonder though if it has more to do with his constant injuries he has had? Maybe he is afraid to push his body the way he used to do? Just a thought, because he was always able before to make the darting sprints. Obviously we don't know what goes on behind the close doors, and how he is with Klopp and buying into his style etc etc, maybe the eds can shed some light on that if they know. But I think Sturridge is very capable of getting back to how he was, but he needs get rid of the fear of getting injured, which is a battle in itself. At the end of the day its down to him to do and force his way into the side. I hope for his sake he can do that, because on his good days is amazing.

20 Oct 2016 09:50:11
ed1 do you think Sturridge will end up how he once was or can you see him been on his way next summer?

I think we are all hoping he turns into a goal scoring machine once again, I just can't see it happening.

{Ed001's Note - it takes time to find out mate, some players never recover, most in fact, so it is unlikely he will.}

20 Oct 2016 10:04:49
kevlaw I think you are onto something there. He seems to never run at full pelt any more. Could be physical and mental with the injuries he has had.

Pity the lad has got some serious talent.

20 Oct 2016 10:33:32
Thanks ed1. I find it a real shame, if it wasn't for the injuries he'd of been something different.

{Ed001's Note - he was world class until the injuries hit.}

20 Oct 2016 10:48:43
Yes he was, he was untouchable. I honestly thought he'd of been like that for years for us and it was quite exciting but then the injuries began which is looking like its ruined what he was capable of. Of course who knows, he may surprise us all and show he's still got it, I hope he does. It's a difficult one with him not performing to the best of his abilities I'd like to see Origi and Ings more, but there again if sturridge is sat on the bench he's never going to perform how he used to. One of them isn't it.

20 Oct 2016 16:57:41
I knew that Studge had lost his pace when vs Swansea, origin got the ball wide right on a counter, he put in a delicious cross for Studge and for the life of me, Studge just couldn`t get there on time for the tap in and the chance was gone. I watched it again and again and my word, I said to myself, "Studge is finished". Before his injuries, that would have been a goal, 3-1 and job done. Graeme Souness and a few other pundits on a youtube clip I watched about Klopp`s revolution at Anfield, have said that he is either not ready to play Klopp`s way or his body will simply not allow him to do it (Souness) . I think it is a bit of both and the Utd game showed why. He was on his heels the whole game, didn`t show enough for the ball, had little to no movement and no fire to get stuck in vs the CB`s. I don`t know how many chances he will be getting but they are shrinking with every poor performance.

20 Oct 2016 17:09:33
I think you guys have got this one wrong. The assumptions seems to be that his injuries have taken their toll and that he can't work in a Klopp team but neither of those were accurate last season and there's no reason they should be this one. Under Klopp he scored in the league every 123 minutes last year, that is an excellent scoring rate only bettered by Aguero. There is little doubt that he's not in form right now but that doesn't mean he won't find it again soon and even if he can't get back in the first 11 we want players of his caliber in the squad to bring off the bench or to rotate into the team to cover for injuries. If Studge can handle not being the main man then there's every reason to keep him at the club.

20 Oct 2016 18:58:37
Over the years we have been quite unlucky in that respect. Fowler, Owen, Torres and now Sturridge were all strikers in the peak of their careers who were never quite the same after injuries.

21 Oct 2016 11:17:00
I don't think Sturridge is 100% sure what he's meant to do in the team as he seems only to half close down a player.
The pace and intensity of the pressing game seems to be beyond him where as I think Ings would be more suited to the style of play but is not as gifted a striker as Sturridge. .

21 Oct 2016 17:13:50
I hope you`re right, Muscat.

19 Oct 2016 18:40:21
Good evening Ed's

Do you guys know much of Agusta Davila? 17 year old Uruguayan on a 2 week trial

Would we be looking to offer him a contract if he impresses the coaching staff?

Thanks.

{Ed001's Note - I don't know very much about him apart from he is supposed to be Uruguay's top young talent. I would assume we would be looking for a permanent deal for him if he impresses, but it is impossible to say as it would come down to what they see in him.}

19 Oct 2016 19:07:10
Ok thanks Ed.

{Ed001's Note - that should say 'one of Uruguay's top young talents' by the way.}

20 Oct 2016 04:05:28
do you think he can get the work permit if we sign him?

{Ed001's Note - yes, that is not the issue as you can just pay them more to ensure it, if need be. Though I seem to remember this lad has (or is eligible for) an EU passport and so does not need one, I could be wrong on that though.}

19 Oct 2016 16:02:41
No sign of Milner training today Ed. Any ideas why?

{Ed001's Note - he got taken off injured!}

19 Oct 2016 17:10:35
Ah yes his head wasnt it? Or something else? You know the extent mate or not yet?

{Ed001's Note - not yet.}

19 Oct 2016 17:29:45
Moreno may be starting then, come Saturday.

19 Oct 2016 20:26:11
Let's hope he's alright for West Brom.

19 Oct 2016 20:41:19
Let's pray for milner lol.

19 Oct 2016 13:30:07
Critically examining the match I would love to know from people what went wrong in the first half against United especially the first 30mts. We looked extreamly poor. UTD simply shut us in the midfeild and made us pass backwards and sideways for much of the game.

They defended deep and we hardly unlocked the wall, Did we? never used the width either.

I am still not convinced with the abilities of Henderson dictating the game similar to scholes or carrick from that deep position.
Matip coming a lot high up the pitch clearly indicates our ball playing passing deficiencies in the middle.

Thanks
Whats the actual role of Grujic? In the absence of lallana ( someone who links the midfield to attack ) Should Grujic plays there as the third midfielder?

19 Oct 2016 14:29:56
For me, it looked like Liverpool came out nervous; heavy touches and poor passes littered their game. Once they settled they started to look better.

Personnel-wise, I think that game was real proof of how Lallana has improved his play, and how his energy and ability fit beautifully with Klopp's plans. The entire team dynamic changed when he was introduced.

The other player that, in this case, concerns me, is Sturridge. While a technically gifted striker, I feel more and more that 'Pool's present style of play doesn't suit his. When Firmino went up top, I thought the attack became far more fluid.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Liverpool were considering the possibility of selling Sturridge. Rather than buy a replacement, i'd like to see how the industry of Ings and a more consistently used Origi look. Between the two and Firmino, I think we'd have plenty of options.

19 Oct 2016 15:26:16
I think Klopp alluded to it in his post match press conference. We lost patience and trust in how we typically play. We were marked man-for-man and because of that, didn't trust in our game and forced the pass every time. It didn't help us being static in our movement - this was primarily caused by missing 2/ 3's of our midfield and Studge relatively static up front.

Let me give an example - the ball gets rolled into Coutinho, he's immediately pressed by Herrera. The space that Herrera just vacated is then gobbled up by Bailey as Studge hasn't dragged him into a channel. Studge cannot drag him into the channel as Firmino is there. Firmino can't drag Valencia into the middle (Herrera's space) as Milner is 40 yards away and we lose our width.

You can see how there is a knock on effect when you cannot by pass either the initial press or the block. Lallana and Wjinaldum can do exactly that, forcing other opposing players out of position (or instant decision making), thus creating space for other players on our team.

You have to give United credit - tactically set up very well and we didn't drag them around enough doing simple things to exploit them at the right times.

19 Oct 2016 16:29:34
Bit of rustiness - we hadn't played for 16 days!
Plus credit to Man Utd, they didn't let us get into our stride.

19 Oct 2016 17:08:52
JH

What was the role of Can? Is he not the one to carry the ball forward with Henderson dropping deep and holding the line. I agree we were completely poor until lallana came in. I am not sure y did we not play Grujic and what's going on with Mane? He should have ripped young and blind on that side. Couldn't completed a dribble and clubs did not deliver a single cross all night.

No matter how deep the opposition sit and defend you need to do a lot more with the ball you have with you.

I don't know what Klopp thought before the game. Is he expecting every team to play like City or Arsenal?

19 Oct 2016 17:11:31
I think it was a combination of things that resulted in our poor start to the game. First I think it was very obvious that we were for whatever reason simply a bit rusty after the international break. There were a lot of simple passes that just went miles off or straight to united.

The other aspect was uniteds intent to stop us playing out from the back. You see it in every game we play where we have the ball the or win the ball, the fullbacks immediately push to at least the half way line (basically becoming wingers) . Then the centre backs split so one is on either side of the edge of the box to pick up the short ball, then hendo drops into the hole in the centre to pick up the ball and distribute. However in the united game zlatan was always immediately closing down the short option to the centre backs. You then had pogba pretty much shadowing hendo in order to close off that option. That left Herrera and fellani to hound and harass countinho and can. Add to the fact that if it did seem as though we were going to beat their press they would commit little fouls to break it down.

Once we did finally get to the final third young and rashford immediately dropped into right and left back creating a back 6 and closing off options to clyne and Milner. The added bonus to this meant the actual back four could be incredibly narrow and compact closing off the areas coutinho, firmino and mane love to play in. Then you have Sturridge that was trying to find space in an area that was just over crowded.

At least from my perspective that's mainly why we couldn't get going.

19 Oct 2016 17:26:53
Nafe

I agree with that opinion. Question remains how do you beat such teams. Y did we not try crossing into the 6 yard box. I do accept the lack of height which will always hinder our chances to nick one. It's still an option for us to try something different.

You just cannot always play through the middle and beat teams.

Our play mainly went through coutinho which is an issue according to me as we depend heavily on that player. UTD marked out him which made impossible for him to turn and find someone forward.

Henderson did not spray passes to the wide players mainly Milner and Clyne for which we needed to use the width for any chance.

{Ed001's Note - we did cross and got bodies in there to try and get on the end of the crossed.}

19 Oct 2016 17:39:38
All valid points. I don`t think it had anything to do with the fact that we hadn`t played for 16 days as Utd and many other teams could use that excuse. It was a combination of us being nervous and overly-eager to take the game to Utd hence, the poor controls, poor and hurried passing, no movement and lack of composure. All the things that killed us at Burnley, in effect. Utd played the way they played and that was okay for me as it is our job to break them down and we just started out flat in every way. This is explained why JK stormed off into the DR at half time because he must have been livid with what he/ we all saw. Studge`s poor movement, poor touch and lack of work rate off the ball, did not help at all but he was not the only one as Mane did not help either and Can was very rusty. Now when Lallana came on, things changed as Couts had room to play balls in behind because of Firmino`s movement and Lallana`s energy. All in all, it`s a point and even if we had won, nothing would have been decided yet even on a night where we fumbled a little bit, we still could have won the game. That is a testament to Klopp and the players and the progress we have made under him. I will say that we need to start games fast and set the tone early especially vs lesser teams who park the bus (Utd? ) in order for ust to disprupt their ssetup early on. Start Fast and Finish Strong should be our mantra for the season going forward, IMO.

19 Oct 2016 19:44:01
To be fair HR, the 16 day break probably did effect most teams, although most were not 16 days - Spurs struggled against WBA until late, Arsenal nearly threw 3 points away against Swans, City had to come back from a goal down against Everton.

19 Oct 2016 19:47:56
@sweet chin music. it would be practically impossible to defeat uniteds system by simply crossing the ball more. Firstly you still have he issue of trying to get both Milner and clyne in a position to play in crosses that offer a threat with united playing a back 6. It wasn't until Rooney came on and offered Milner space behind that we finally saw a threat via that option. Plus height wise we are a small team and apart from Can or origi offer very little arial threat.

The simplist way to defeat uniteds system would of been to play high tempo one touch football and simply pass our way from the press. This is likely what klopp was expecting us to be able to do and probably why he was so frustrated. If you move the ball quick enough you'll start to see gaps appear, especially when you have a relatively inexperienced player in rashford being asked to do so much defensive work. The problem we had was certain players were unable to move the quickly enough and transition through the press. This is why I believe Can will struggle for game time.

The other option of the top of my head without drastically changing the whole system would of been to ask Liverpool to drop our defensive line by 10-15 yards sit deep and narrow and allow united the majority of possession. This could then lead to them allowing rashford and young to play more of a winger rather than a wingback. We would then be more able to effectively counter and transition through the pitch. Mane would be our main outlet with his pace and we would need to rely on sturridge making effective runs. The main downside to this is that it is a big gamble. With a defence like ours allowing united space and possession could easily lead to them winning. Liverpool have previously played this way under Rafa and it has cost us before. I personally would not choose to take the risk.

19 Oct 2016 20:26:38
I think Jose saw how we had struggled in our previous games when teams pressed us hard and early, and he told his players to start off by pressing us high.

To their credit they did it efficiently and forced us into errors (which our big game nerves made worse), and we we barely got out of our own half in the first 45

Losing the excellent lallana and wijnaldum for the sluggish Can made our midfield less effective and less able to get through their press, and sturridge wasn't as mobile and pacey as he had been against leicester for example- along with a few others.

But for me we lost the first half struggle in midfield, as Jose planned.

After an hour of high pressing Utd were just about knackered, but despite playing through them a few times we couldn't quite find a way past de gea, and Bailly and Valencia were very good at their jobs throughout the game.

Despite their defensive quality we would probably still have got a winner but for de gea's great save from Can. I bet not many keepers wouldve got down that quickly.

It wasnt just lallana that changed the game though- they were very tired when he came on, but unlike sturridge he was able to exploit their tired legs and create a threat.

19 Oct 2016 23:58:09
The overconfidence fed into your team by the fans and the media almost cost you in the first 20 minutes of the match. Even mane came out saying how sure your team was of a win. Zlatan and Pogba were poor on that night I honestly think you were there for the taking especially in the first half.

But Jose knows best and he will always set up like that that in big away games. I am happy with the draw but you should expect a different game at old Trafford.

19 Oct 2016 23:11:03
Didn't lose, didn't concede and we have the comfort that we could beat them at Old Trafford as they can only be negative against top sides. Plus that's prepared us for Saturday evening Pulisball.

20 Oct 2016 02:14:35
In the end the buck stops at Klopp. Poor tactics.

20 Oct 2016 06:52:13
That's it. I'm now 100% convinced Leekwanyew is B Rodgers.

20 Oct 2016 17:00:46
Spot on, Sandman.

20 Oct 2016 16:21:46
@Sweet chin music

1. What was the role of Can?

The role of Can was to be slightly more advanced than Henderson, in essence, replacing the Wjinaldum role. The problem was Can hasn't played for a while and doesn't have the agility of Wjinaldum. It's not suprising as they are completely different players with different skill sets. For an aggressive press (which United did), you need players that can play on the half turn and still maintain the tempo of the move. Can is easy to press, as is Henderson, both of those guys need to see what's in front of them. Lallana and Wijanldum are much harder to press because they, in very simple terms, can turn better with the ball, whilst still maintaining the speed of the transition. But they can't offer what Hendo and Can can do deeper, because they don't have the passing range or the ability to dictate the tempo of the play from that deeper area. It's just a shame we lost 2/ 3's of the midfield for that game. We basically matched United player for player in physicality and it suited them more than us (Pogba - Hendo, Can - Felliani, Coutinho - Herrera)

2. What's going on with Mane?

Mane was getting the ball on the halfway line and Blind was up his backside. Expecting miracles from him if you're expecting him to cause damage in that area. Clyne gave no width, so United just brought him inside where everyone else was. The lack of rotation hurt us, tempo too slow and players too static.

19 Oct 2016 08:43:36
Good news guys - I've finally got a confirmation from my French girlfriend that she's now a Liverpool fan.

I guess me dragging her down the pub to watch all sorts of games has worked it's magic. It shows that hard work really does pay off, ha.

19 Oct 2016 10:32:31
Lol about a year ago I turned my misses into one, took me a while since she didn't like football at all. Now every game she puts My shirt on. Yet to get her one of her own haha.

19 Oct 2016 07:29:54
{Ed's Note - We have posted a new article entitled, Leicester City Premier League season so far

19 Oct 2016 08:49:16
The whole article could be summed up in just one line if not word. The great loss of Kante.

19 Oct 2016 08:49:16
The whole article could be summed up in just one line if not word. The great loss of Kante.

19 Oct 2016 10:37:14
The loss of Kante is no doubt their failure but even should they have kept him, I don't think they'd of done anything this season. They had the ultimate one off and fair play to them but that's it now.

19 Oct 2016 16:31:05
They had a chance, they took it.
Sustained success is the next step and much more difficult.