Liverpool Banter Archive August 01 2015

01 Aug 2015 20:00:23
To be pessimistic and to fit in with the new breed of fans.

I would lose a lot of the optimism we have for this season. After that friendly if Brendan doesn't start with a dm we will get a lot more 6-0 stoker results this season.

Henderson and Milner leave us far too open and migs isn't a sweeper to make up for the lack of defensive capabilites we have.

I also feel Henderson is absolutely terrible unless he is allowed to be the pressing monster he was in the 13/14 season. He is about 1% of the player he can be if he isn't allowed to be free. He will come to life this season if we play we a dm. I love him but not unless he is let of his leash and I mean free of instructions aswel, we're to stand, how many goals he needs to score etc he is so much more when he can do what he wants

And migs is terrible aswel.

Chirivellas football mind is stunning btw to be positive. Know exactly what the game is.

That is all.

01 Aug 2015 20:36:02
I wouldn't take a lot from the Pre season friendlies unless you are not serious about it.
Lucas is a must and without We would concede.

Henderson is neither a CM nor a DM, He is an attacking midfielder and should be inside the opposition box.

Ibe is a definite starter and should be ahead of Lallana any day for me.

You need sheer pace on the flanks to beat your man and that makes Ibe and Markovic a must IMO.

Cheers

01 Aug 2015 20:37:52
Sense

01 Aug 2015 21:16:39
Yeah European I wasn't too interested in the goals, play or effort tbh just the system.

You can see that Henderson and Milner have been instructed to play on a pivot, one drops and the other goes but it's just to much freedom and besides the one who drops doesn't actually possess any good defensive qualities

I promise you euro he ain't starting with lucas in the hole. Allen and can before him but I'm certain it's Hendo and Milner on there own.

And Henderson isn't anything tbh none of cdm, cm, cam as in speciality he is a go were the thw action is player as his biggest attribute is his engine and it needs to be put the use.

Everyone bangs on about his goals because gerrard and Lampard creates this goal scoring mid culture. Hendo doesn't need to add goals because by trying ti get into those positions he is going away from were he is effective. His best season was 13/14 and he didn't score many did he? But thete wasn't many performing better than him.

The strikers, wingers and tens need ti find the goals not Hendo.

Think of the Tottenham 2013 game 5-0

Henderson
Allen
Lucas

Nice balance and he was fabulous, I kbow he scored but he was so much more that day and I honestly thought there's gerrard replacement, and not the super moments but the chemistry he supplied to the likes of alonso and mash.

01 Aug 2015 23:36:32
Have to disagree here although yes his 13/14 season was very good, he stood out a lot more in the 14/15 season for me, I think the season before had matured him a little we saw him creating and both scoring more, how you can argue that is bad for the team I'm not quite sure but I think Hendo will be even better this season, Coutinho and Hendo were the shining lights in a poor last season, anyway Hendo is the better player out of himself and Milner imo

02 Aug 2015 04:34:02
Ibe and markovic are musts? Bloody hell you talk some rubbish

02 Aug 2015 06:00:04
We just have too many players in my opinion.

02 Aug 2015 08:26:46
Chirivela is the kind of player who would suit Barcelona. He is incredibly calm on the ball and is good at pass and move in tight areas, possession keeping footblll. He will need to build some body strength and work on the defensive side of his game, and with some luck, we might have a brilliant playmaker on our hands.

02 Aug 2015 09:10:05
We will have to agree to disagree Mr c.

Last season was abysmal and the like of Henderson and coutinho weren't actually that good, but we're better than the rest.

Henderson is neither a goal scoring mid or a deep lying play maker and he definitely not a defensive mid.

He really should be up and down using that engine, let him use his own initiative. When to pass, when to run, cross etx etc

He cab be really good but don't over rate people because he is a red and the captain. He set huge standards in 13/14 and be needs to get back to that, but Brendan needs to help him.

02 Aug 2015 11:59:21
Hendo would probably be a really good right mid just as gerrard was utilised for some time under benitez, never runs out of energy, has a good cross, decent defensive awareness and makes decent runs

No chance of us playing a flat 4 in midfield though

01 Aug 2015 18:26:06
Gomez looks a great prospect, thought Clyne looks solid , Ings and Milner working hard and tidy players. Lack of inspiration though in final third , Lallana overplays but a decent first half.

01 Aug 2015 18:42:22
Decent first half? I'm struggling to see one difference between this game and last season.

01 Aug 2015 19:07:02
I find it painful watching lallana!

Same as last year then get to the final 3rd then the attack just fades away :/

01 Aug 2015 19:07:23
First half offered little to suggest that anything learnt from last season. Still static up front and narrow through the middle. I like Lallana but Milner had to keep shouting at him to get wide as gave Gomez no support going forward. HJK had one chance and should have scored. Second half a bit better at least.

01 Aug 2015 19:46:08
Firmino will be the difference

01 Aug 2015 19:47:38
Better second half. Coutinho best player as normal. Take Lalana and Ings out for Firmino and Benteke,, and I think that'll be the team vs Stoke

01 Aug 2015 19:48:57
We have such a great group of players, I will hate Brendan if he manages to somehow mess it up this season.

01 Aug 2015 17:03:16
No defensive mid and skittles and lovren in defence, I'm very worried about this game.

01 Aug 2015 18:20:30
Hendo playing deep playmaker. The Defence actually looks organised. How good does young Gomez look?

01 Aug 2015 16:49:27
City 4-0 down against Stuttgart at HT. Worst defending I've ever seen.

01 Aug 2015 18:33:38
Worse than Liverpool v Stoke away?

02 Aug 2015 09:55:24
On par.

01 Aug 2015 15:30:59
Hi ed's and everybody else, are tickets available on the door for tomorrow's match against Swindon? Also anyvody have any idea who will be in the starting line up

01 Aug 2015 15:58:48
Today's squad is Chirivella, Clyne, Coutinho, Fulton, Gomez, Henderson, Ibe, Ings, Kent, Lallana, Lovren, Maguire, Mignolet, Milner, Origi, Skrtel.

So anyone not involved here is apparently playing against Swindon. At least if you believe The Echo (Which Ed01 has warned us several times to read with tablespoon of salt!)

01 Aug 2015 13:15:25
I mean in respect of we have employed excellent coaches to improve the players and our plaY , he hasn't achieved anything and it seems he doesn't put in extra hours outside of training and matches . Rodgers doesn't even watch our academy players, players loaned out and our transfers.

01 Aug 2015 13:53:39
How the do * you know that ?
One, there is such a thing as delegation. He can get the reports from the rest of the team, stats etc etc.
Two, what about technology. All the games are on tape, probably each individual player too, watch computer stats on player's runs, etc etc.

I don't know, on the one hand we get criticised for living in the past.
But, on the other, the manager's job is not the same anymore. It's not the 1970's.
Rodgers could be sitting at home, on the throne, and get a game downloaded straight to him.
So he might not go physically to a game but it's not to say he doesn't know what is going on.

01 Aug 2015 14:38:54
The juicer
The whole point is Rodgers doesn't bother watching live**. As a Manager in the PL and at a club like Liverpool he shouldn't be sitting at home watching recordings. His job is not work at home mate.
How do I know? Well most of us know because the fans know we have quailty young players and prospects that are constantly being overlooked whilst we have bought vast amounts of players who have failed. It's not rocket science. If BR watched half the players we buy then we would probably buy half of them rather than ten players every window.

01 Aug 2015 15:19:42
Al, the first team are playing twice per week now, and often in Europe too.
So two days per week playing, another day travelling, or possibly two days if in Europe. That's half the week gone already.
Then doing his main job, working with the first team. There's only so many days in a week !

Liverpool has an extensive youth set-up, well-funded with it's own management structure. Let them do their jobs. The head man gets reports and invites promising players into the first team set-up. That's what happens.
The problem is from there onwards.
The players are either not good enough to make the jump or need extra playing time at a higher level.
We don't get to see what happens at training, how the kids perform, or how they act within that environment.

But the biggest issue is the requirement to qualify for CL. It's short-termism in the extreme. That pressure for results does not sit with longer-term youth development at all.
I'd like to see Ilori given a go this year, but what if it all goes wrong and he has a nightmare in the first five games. That could be CL kaput and Rodgers' job with it. Why would he risk that ?
The easy answer is you don't, or farm him out on loan and pass that risk on to someone else.

If a large part of any manger's job is to introduce youth players on a consistent basis, then they should be left to get on with it, without getting put out of work because it doesn't go smoothly.

01 Aug 2015 15:51:10
It really p***es me off when all these posters keep banging on about how good our youth and U21's are, and that they should be in the first team squad. What have they ever won to justify this belief in them.We tried Kelly, Flannigan and Wisdom and the 3 of them came up short Anyone would think we are the only club that doesn't promote from the academy when in reality most of the top teams don't. The last Chelsea player to come from the academy and play in the first team was John Terry, enough said

01 Aug 2015 16:58:24
Come on Juicer we all know Brendan is a witch

01 Aug 2015 17:10:23
I read somewhere Wenger works a lot at home when he isn't actually at work, mind I think the difference would be outside of Melwood Rodgers does sweet f all to do with football.

01 Aug 2015 19:34:54
Brendan is too busy being a slum Lord in the evenings

01 Aug 2015 22:21:23
Red since 64. For me I haven't posted anything seriously insulting at any one in a long time. But your post about wisdom flanno and Kelly ''coming up short'' Just demonstrates your ineptitude to watch a game unfold and realise what's happening in front of you. I haven't seen a post that embarrassing in a long time. I usually think you come up with utter nonesense but that's been your best so far. I would have all 3 playing ahead of clyne personally.Kelly showed exactly what he was capable of at palace. Wisdom too at wba and derby.Both were/are being utterly failed by Brendan and his buy for the sake of buying policy because he just can't trust the youth.
Chelsea are currently bringing through a crop of youth players. Loftus cheek,chalobah,ake,kane. Also the point is,they don't sell them for f all,like the pittence we got for coady,or the 2 million for kelly. They are sustainable,we ARE NOT.

I seriously question whether you've watched the boys on loan/after being sold to spout such drivel.

02 Aug 2015 05:04:37
Boba, you are wasting your time with 64 when it comes to discussing how BR has failed our youth products. All he and his ilk do is pander to BR and make any excuse or make false/disingenuous statements just to absorb his/their golden boy of any blame for his incompetence and failures in this area. For example, he talks about Kelly and Flanno not making the cut. That is a bold faced lie except you are disingenuous and willfully ignore the facts. Kelly is having a fine career at Palace and made the England squad for Euro 2012 while Flanno made his debut for England after the 13/14 season and had he not been injured, who knows how good he may have been. If this is Red's idea of nut making the cut then sign me up so I can "not make the cut" as well, LOL. Rember, these are players that were given their debuts by Rafa and KK (who have won more than BR will ever do in his career) yet BR wanted them gone yet he was trying to take the credit for the budding career of a player (Flanno) he wanted gone. Talk about an opportunist but in 64 and his ilk's world, that is ok. Also, he is not telling you that BR doesn't even go watch the youth games YET knows first hand that our youth are trash and won't make the cut. How is that even possible? I guess it is in their world, it is. Also when BR was hired, the owners mandated him to bring thru the youth from the academy which he has failed to do. BR's idea of "bringing thru our youth" is to buy other youth players from other clubs to take their places only to find out that they are worse off than our youth. And he then sells them for pocket change and many here think he is doing a good job. Good luck with that! If some want to remain fooled then they are welcome to it but the rest of us who actually have a brain and can see and think for ourselves will choose to not follow other people into a blind alley.

01 Aug 2015 08:22:50
So what was the idea behind setting two friendlies, one of them abroad, day after day?

I understand one game is for team A and one for team B (unless Benteke and Firmino will play tomorrow? and is Sakkho and Moreno now team B?). Still strange.

01 Aug 2015 08:45:43
Maybe it's as simple as trying to get as many players up to match fitness as possible.

01 Aug 2015 09:09:38
Match fitness should be the first priority.

01 Aug 2015 09:09:47
To give players who haven´t played much this preseason a chance. BR doesn´t choose who´s best for the team, but who he likes the most.

By each day that goes by, and I figure out that players that were promised game time, are available for loan or won´t play in their favoured position, the more I despise BR. I can´t phatomn how the review could be in favour of BR staying.

01 Aug 2015 09:37:01
I just don't understand this promising game time business.

It just feels weak. Players should be promised nothing more than a fair crack.

What seems to be happening is that players don't believe they will be given a fair crack and so seek assurances and are given assurances to shut them up for a while and the assurances aren't delivered upon and so their be
If is eroded further.

No player should be picked because of assurances. So giving assurances has downside but no upside. So stop doing it.

01 Aug 2015 09:53:36
Too right, can you imagine fergie or mourinho giving game time assurances! I'm fairly sure both lukaku and de bruyne were sold for that very reason.

{Ed002's Note - No, that is incorrect. KdB was sold because he made demands the club would not meet regarding game time, but Lukaku went for an entirely different reason.}

01 Aug 2015 10:14:26
to keep the player, because BR knows that Can, for instance, has the potential to become a hit, but BR is under pressure and he doesn't has the time to develop a player, so he will go with the finished article instead. If he knew how to rotate, then there wouldn't be any problems.

I can recall that the eds have said that around 10 or more players (during Rodgers reign) have been given promises that never were fulfilled - I will never understand how this can be categorized as being a good man-manager.

01 Aug 2015 10:53:52
Players should be promised what is in their contracts.
If they want to play, earn it on the training ground.

01 Aug 2015 11:10:44
Rodgers is in the last chance Saloon, so if he's going to fail. It's fair to let him choose his team from a strong squad of players. In the end the results will determine his fate. Brendan hasn't given some of the squad a fair deal,we all know this to be true. I was at the last 2 games against stoke and Crystal Palace and it was so sad to see us out played. Rodgers has blamed lack of firepower. So now he has 4 new strikers expect a 6-7 score.

01 Aug 2015 11:29:51
T Mony

I don't think it makes any logic. You sack the man and leave his 30 choices at the club and what if the new man doesn't rate half of them just like he did not rate much of Kenny purchases.
Another transition? We are now left with no choice other than him to succeed.

01 Aug 2015 11:47:39
A good manager will get much much more out of this group of players than the current incumbent. The whole thing is a complete shambles. Lying to players shows how weak the man is.

01 Aug 2015 11:50:31
The squad is full of internationals, Most Managers would love an opportunity to work with a squad like we have.

01 Aug 2015 12:04:37
Not every manager would come in and buy 30 players. I would buy a stronger Keeper that's all.

01 Aug 2015 13:39:28
Keoman at Southampton shows how a good manager gets a good system in place first where everyone knows what they ate doing. He s lost several major players and continues to do well because he gets the best out of his team through an effective system.

01 Aug 2015 14:57:06
Timo

Southampton will struggle this season.

01 Aug 2015 15:03:11
Koeman is doing no better than pottetino was and pottetino is doing to better at Spurs than Tim was and now he's at villa. I think you'll find that Southampton are doing well because of the club not the man in charge!

01 Aug 2015 16:08:23
'That makes no logic' classic

01 Aug 2015 17:00:55
Koeman = Laudrup

02 Aug 2015 05:26:40
Korean unlike BR, played the game and has the mentality that says, just get on with it and coach the team because those players that are there are the ones you have. BR on the other hand, is a politician and a buck passer who is ever ready to take credit and when things fall flat, is ready to throw his own players and coaches under the bus. When all else fails, blame someone else or say he lacks players in firepower. Good thing is that now, no one will take the fall for him if he messes up this season and that must be scary for such an opportunist and a man unable to take responsibility for anything.

31 Jul 2015 22:02:06
Ed001

Do you have any knowledge as to who Brendan prefers for the left CB role this coming season? He dropped Lovren eventually last season, but I'm getting seriously worried that Lovren will be starting the season against Stoke, given that its been Skrtel-Lovren for almost all of pre-season and will be tomorrow as well. Sakho was far better last season, can't see why BR would reinstate Lovren.

Cheers

{Ed001's Note - Lovren was bought for that position.}

01 Aug 2015 06:00:49
This is one of the dumbest move by the club / TC / manager. A straight fight between the manager and TC.
BR first rate any of the players bought by TC and Sakho is one among them.

{Ed001's Note - the transfer committee was not in place when Sakho was signed. It was put in place because Rodgers signed players like Sakho, that he decided he didn't rate once he had spent a large sum to acquire them. Maybe he should spend less time tarting himself up and more time watching players and he might actually know whether they are the right signings before buying them.}

01 Aug 2015 06:27:14
Y does he buy people if he is not 100% sure on them? Hopeless.
Y did not we buy Lovren a season before when we were linked with him before his move to Southampton.

Our scouting is absolutely hopeless. I don't understand what on earth do they watch players for?

Scout Moreno for an year, submit the report, buy the player and then realize he is an offensive full back who doesn't defend.

Scout Emre Can, submit the report, buy the player and then realize he isn't a DM in real world rather a B2B player.

Seriously?

{Ed001's Note - it is not the scouts, the scouts are merely identifying players for the positions. It is down to the manager to then decide which ones best work in his system, Rodgers does not do that. Rodgers had full access to the information on how Moreno was more of a defensive winger than a full back, but he still wanted him to be the club's new left back. He had access to reports about how Can plays. He knew Mignolet had a weakness with his distribution, but he chose to bring him in to distribute the ball from the back.}

01 Aug 2015 07:10:51
Is he the only one at the club who decides these? What's his experience at the international stage? Nothing.
How could the owners just leave him to act on his own?
And the committee ain't good either to me.
Before we go into the football and things on the pitch, we should get this sorted out.
". BRING IN PLAYERS THAT MAKES SENSE. "
I just feel the players at times we are linked the only one left in the world.

Milner replacing Gerrard if he thinks is another stupid move IMO. Gerrard was deployed as the deep lying playmaker role and I fail to understand how would Milner replace him?

Now that leaves him in a dilemma to play Lucas at any expense and now would have to bench another player in CAN who was bought a season ago.

Hats off.

Apologies for my view, nothing offensive.

01 Aug 2015 07:38:48
Ed001 you say lovren was bought for that position, but surely all our centre backs were bought for that position. Sakho showed he is better than the rest last season, and whether rodgers sees this or not, how can 'he was bought to play there' be a reason? I'm trying not to sound like in having a go here, it's not really working, I guess my point is why did we buy a lcb when we had one that is better than the rcb

{Ed001's Note - because Rodgers doesn't rate Sakho, even though he chose him, while he loves Skrtel, for some unknown reason. Possibly because what Rodgers knows about defensive play could be written on the back of a tiny stamp with a very large marker pen.}

01 Aug 2015 07:46:41
Spot on EDS, one of the major qualities or flaws of a managercoach is picking the right players for positions and systems from the tools provided.

01 Aug 2015 08:00:06
Dont you think it's weird ed01, He buys Sakho and then all one day starts not liking him? There must be some reason for sure. Both Migs and Sakho are his choices and look the contrast in trust shown with either.

{Ed001's Note - like I said, he doesn't do enough work scouting the players. He has far too many other things going on, which is why he will never be a great coach. Great coaches obsess over the game, they live and breath it, they don't have time for anything other than watching it in their spare time. Shanks used to take Nessie on holidays to watch games for her birthday. If he had spare time, it would be spent watching a game somewhere. Paisley was the same. That is what Rodgers should be doing, he should be watching games and players. Youth teams, U21s, first team, it doesn't matter, there is always something to be learnt from any game. Always. Rafa's transfer record got worse purely because he trusted his scouts to pick the players, rather than continuing to find the time to go and watch targets before signing them. That is a major lesson to be learnt by any manager, otherwise you end up getting recommended a player like Aquilani without ever seeing him play.}

01 Aug 2015 08:13:17
Ed01, His mistake was going in for Lovren. Had he bought a decent RCB, Skrtel would have been off by this time.
Sakho was never going to replace Skrtel since Sakho is left footed and could never play on the right side.

We simply don't have a better RCB than Skrtel at the club, in fact we did not had one last season apart from Toure.

{Ed001's Note - his problem is in not being able to understand defending, it wouldn't matter who or what he bought until he can understand that. Lovren is perfectly capable of playing either side anyway.}

01 Aug 2015 10:47:52
To me the worst transfer window we've had since Kenny left was last summer. Absolute dross bought for a kings ransom. The TC was in place then.

Sakho left France after throwing a strop because he wasn't getting selected. He came to LFC, needed time to adjust. Didn't earn a first team place. Then last winter threw another strop because he wasn't being selected.

Sakho may be a decent player but IMO he has an attitude problem and seems to think he is immune from being dropped.

01 Aug 2015 11:07:51
Maybe the new coaches might have some influence over him and his approach to defending this season

01 Aug 2015 11:52:32
Ron talking absolute rubbish to try to excuse his friend Brendan. Sakho performs well but is then dropped. Most professionals would be annoyed!!

01 Aug 2015 17:02:42
Most professional wouldn't throw a strop, they would get on with their job.
Sakho has history.

02 Aug 2015 05:52:39
Ron, you are deflecting just like your golden boy does. What Sahko did happens all the time so not too bothered and if that is a yardstick for a player getting picked then you have never played the game or you have but are trying so hard as you normally do, to excuse BR of being down right incompetent as the Ed has eloquently stated in this thread. Sahko is captain of France and none of our Cbs are in his class and one rant doesn't make him worse than them in terms of ability. BR has messed up big time with him and many other signings and one rant won't change that fact regardless of your scandalous attempt to absorb BR of the blame because this is all his fault as the Ed has said. Do you have info to disprove this? If you do, let's hear it. If not, then stop absorbing him of blame because you sound desperate with you rubbish excuses.