Liverpool Banter Archive December 01 2014

01 Dec 2014 23:55:17
Hi eds if Johnson is going and manquillo May return to A Madrid my shout for a player we should have a good look at would be Cyrus Christie of derby and Ireland he took Coleman's place in the Ireland match against USA and Ronnie Whelan was very impressed.

I'd love Clyne to replace Johnson. He's quality going forward and defending.

Red Rum

IMO, Clyne is simply the best RB in the PL along w/ Coleman BUT we will look stupidly ridiculous going for another Saints player.

02 Dec 2014 02:31:48
Andre Wisdom
Does no one rate him or does everyone forget about him?

Maybe give the opportunity to Ryan Mclaughlin? looked good back then, probably would do better than Johnson now anyways.

Wisdom is okay for me, but I personally think Flanagan is better. Just wish he would quit getting injured as I'm afraid it'll stop his progress.

Personally i would like to see Flanagan and Mclaughlin as our RB options. If the team wants a more defensive RB, then play flanno and if its all out attack just put Mclaughlin in. Both these players would give the coach different options to choose from. Wisdom i think should be cover for CB and RB.

Wisdom, Flanagan and McLaughlin are all class players. Wisdom is more in the Micah Richards mould. Fast, powerful, defensively solid, and okay going forward. Flanagan is more like a Gary Neville. Composed and an absolute pitbull (wingers nightmare). Whereas McLaughlin is far more like Seamus Coleman. Pace, skill, flair, a wicked delivery, and the desire to get back and defend.

Any 3 of them could be a long term right back for us. It is literally just down to who gets the chance. I've always hoped McLaughlin personally because of his attacking nature.

02 Dec 2014 08:39:35
Mc for me too. The other two offers very little going forward.

Wisdom, Flanagan & its about time McLaughlin gets the nod. We also have Stewart and Randall, so a 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice RB wouldn't be that hard to pick out between them.

Personally i don't see McLaughlin making it at Liverpool. Although i would be great to see a N Ireland pulling on the red shirt. I have my doubts.

01 Dec 2014 19:49:24
Just a question because I look forward to the replys, if last season was all down to Suarez, how did we play exactly the same without him against totenham this season? This just be funny!

Sturridge was fit and he makes a massive difference going forward, plus, Spurs were poor.

Red Rum

01 Dec 2014 21:14:03
Spurs were poor and we played with two strikers upfront.
Sturridge draws defenders out making room for others to run inside the box.

Sorry I thought Suarez made everyone else play well, and inspired all their energy? That's what all this website experts claim!

Last season was not all down to Suarez!

Only an amateur/morally dishonest/intellectually bankrupt football follower would claim that the success or lack thereof of a team in a whole season is down to one player.

There are many factors to take into consideration - what is probably true is that Suarez is so creative and hard working that he is able to turn a game by himself even if those around him aren't performing very well. Without him (and currently without Sturridge) we lack the personnel that have such an impact. Sterling is on his way to that level but he is still very young (which is easy to forget given how mature his game is) and as such it appears that, without Suarez, we are rubbish. Even if Suarez was still here we'd be doing worse this season - and the blame for that lies squarely at Rodgers door.

01 Dec 2014 17:21:12
eds what's the latest on steven gerrards contract negotiations please. nothing updated here

{Ed002's Note - I don't know any details but a colleague has reported that he has an offer of a one year contract at a lesser salary and he is likely looking for a two year deal on an increased, or at least similar salary. He should be in no rush to agree as come January he will be able to discuss matters directly with non EPL sides. He will already have a good idea of options as his representatives will have had some discussions at least. I don't see any chance of a move within Europe but perhaps the United States might be attractive to him, I don't know.}

Were listening to on the way home and they prity much said what you have. but if gerrad were to get the contract he wants then johson and others who are coming to the end of the contracts would want not the same as gerrard but simular would this be a problem with the club and fsg who are intent on cutting wages down

{Ed002's Note - I suspect the business plan took account of expected reductions in wages for next season. We know they are in a tough place financially and they will be looking to saving money wherever they can.}

01 Dec 2014 18:13:20
Well I'm not too worried about Gerrard's contract impacting Johnson, because he isn't playing well enough to stay and shouldn't get a contract unless he pulls his finger out So therefore it doesn't matter if he demands wages that are a proportionate difference to what Gerrard gets vs. his existing deal.

Is Coutinho out of contract at the end of the season, or did I imagine that?

{Ed002's Note - Flanagan, Toure, Suso, Gerrard and Johnson are out of contract in June. Coutinho is 2018.}

Cannot see Gerrard or Johnson being at the club next season. Toure's contract is up too at the end of the season and Skrtel will most likely be moved on as he is not going to be offered a new lucrative contract either which opens the door for the likes of Ilori and also feel now that Rodgers job is under review that the likes of Sakho will not be sold as he was a long term signing.

We have a very good core of players but unfortunately have a manager who is to full of himself and is freezing out players who do not fit in with his style. It would be best for FSG to get a coach/manager who does not have eyes bigger than his stomach.

Could this have an effect in the future for lfc buying players in respect of wages. fsg are determined to keep player wges down and i suspect this will keep away top class players so all we will end up with could be players

{Ed002's Note - No, it will make no difference.}

I understand that Gerrard is one of the few shinning lights for Lfc over the past decade or so but for the life of me i don't understand how aging footballers would demand similar money when negoiating a new contract. Surely a players wages should decrease with their ability?

{Ed002's Note - It does at many clubs - not so much ability, but certainly age and playing time are a factor.}

01 Dec 2014 19:02:08
could lfc offer gerrard a player preformance kind of contract. would this suit him better than the 1 year contract on the table

The reality is that Gerrard isn't as important to the team as he used to be and the club are right to offer a considerably lower salary, but if Gerrard rejects that offer then the club shouldn't offer another one out of sentimentality and if Gerrard leaves then all the best to him and thank you for everything he has done.

SG is experienced enuff to know what the business side of things are as a veteran in the game, he defo knows the deal. I`m not too worried because if he stays then it means he`s accepted a reduced role in the team and if he goes, I will thank him for his time and unforgetable moments he gave me and as a club, we will move on.

01 Dec 2014 16:44:21
I think we are just two forwards away from last year. If we had two decent forwards, Gerrard could play anywhere, and he would get loads of assists.

So which one of the two forwards that u desperately want would we willing to play CDM or GK? We have Sturridge coming back from injury, and Origi coming back from loan. If Balotelli and Borini both leave in the summer as expected, then only would i like to see a top striker (preferably Lacazette) join the club, which would give us Sturridge, Lacazette, Origi and Lambert as our 4 strikers. But first the CDM and GK positions need to be addressed before its too late.

I think we are just one forward away from last year. Actually I even have someone specific in mind. Luis something.

Hey Indian it is already too late, lost the league last year due to no protection of back four from SG and terrible goalkeeping from Migs.
This year looks to be even worse

01 Dec 2014 09:10:28
Hi Ed002

Have you any idea when UEFA will release the results regarding their investigation of LFC for breach of FFP?

{Ed002's Note - Based on previous experience, May sometime.}

01 Dec 2014 11:18:04
My point on Klopp is simply no real choice! You all say he did it all wih no budget which is fair but those players that came in hummels, lewondowski, gundogen, subotic, pizchek, Sahin, schemlzer could of all failed I mean lewondowski was a snip from somewhere in Poland, hummels was kicked out of Bayern academy after his dad was let go! And he coached then terrifically well and achieved out of it! Moyes did he same sort of thin with the Rooney money, jags, baines, arteta, Cahill, Howard, colemans! We did it with coutinho and Sturridge, sometimes buying unknown in a sense can work perfectly but it can fail as we all no, aspas, Alberto, Moses, assaidi an the rest! But Klopp doesn't buy the players I don't think and hey try and buy unknowns, but his players that are left are all above Dortmund, the ones that hav left the pool are all below us my point is Klopp was dealt a better hand then Brendan to bein with and we almost won the league last year and it was down to Suarez if it was how did we Tonk Tottenham this season without playing the same way? We play like that with Sturridge! But Klopp has had money to replace the players he lost mkhitaryan, aubamyeng, immobile - 63mil? Still a lot on 3 players and then have Sahin back, it's more Dortmunds recruitment that affects him like ginter, sokratis, Josip (I think. Loan from Cska) I'm no blaming him for the recruitment but the eds made me laugh tbh in a discussion about mr Rodgers they said along the lines of "it's up to the manager to motivate the players" but just said its not klopps fault the players aren't motivated because the club aren't ambitious or something! I believe Rodgers has done something bad to thes eds because there is no opinion there giving on him that isn't aggressive, you were all so diplomatic I'm just shocked at how that's changed! Klopp ain't the right decision. Rodgers is are man, this is our Liverpool, let's show some support! We've got to play the mancs is a couple of weeks let's show them what were made of! Sorry for the typing errors and no spaces!

{Ed001's Note - seriously? This is just gibberish. Can you rewrite this so I can understand it please, because right now it seems you are trying to claim that Dortmund's spending, which is much less than Liverpool's over the same period of time, is comparable to Liverpool's and that is the reason why Klopp has done well. You also miss the point I was making about why the players aren't motivated any more at Dortmund, as they all want to leave due to the club showing no ambition. While Liverpool have shown lots of ambition and spent huge sums of money yet the manager can't motivate the players. It is not the same and I don't know why people keep comparing the two.

Klopp has won things on a much smaller budget, Rodgers has won nothing with plenty of backing. Klopp has consistently kept Dortmund competitive over a period of years, Rodgers had a few months were the team were playing well. There is simply no comparison between the two right now. Maybe in a few years' time, hopefully, Rodgers will have a record with us that stands comparison with Klopp's record at Dortmund, but right now he has nothing but promises. Promises he is quite simply failing to get anywhere near keeping.}

01 Dec 2014 11:33:12
If I could add just one point, Dortumand will be in CL next season and are doing fine in the current CL campaign.
They still play some beautiful football.
We on the other hand are in total mess.

Interestingly enough I was speaking to a utd fan at the weekend and he told me that he and other utd fans are hoping that we are stupid enough to sack BR. As they think he has turned our club into a force to be reckoned with, even despite our poor start to the season.

I found the opinion of a small section of our rivals fans quite interesting!

01 Dec 2014 12:03:16
Passion you do know Dortmund r at the bottom of their league so to say they will definitely be in the cl next season is a bit of an exaggeration.

Claiming Klopp achieved on a smaller/larger budget is the wrong argument to have. Klopp achieved and has achieved a lot more than BR has and that is a fact regardless of how much has been spent (Klopp has spent less over the same period) by both coaches. BR talks a good game and that "good game" is nothing in comparison to hard achievements and facts we can hold on to like Klopp. PERIOD!

01 Dec 2014 13:06:51
Tommy

100% they would, their are at the bottom courtesy of bad luck. I do follow them and they are playing some really good football.
Our case is extreme opposite.

01 Dec 2014 17:32:29
I love your Dortmund positivity, Harry. So a bit of 'bad luck' sees them bottom of the league, and 10 points off CL positions? 100% is a pretty bold statement.

This is not a bad luck thing, that's a 7 game streak without a win in the league. and given 2nd/rd seem to get around 64 points.They need to win roughly 16-18 of their remaining 21 or so fixtures

So they play good football and are bottom of league and that's fine but everyone was kicking off because Brendan blew the title because o his obsession with attacking instead of just defending ? It's just hypocricy! Klopp is a great coach as is Brendan but prior to this summer in 2 years Brendan spent what 70/80 mil, inherited a poor team built it and nearly won the league? It's only this summer we spent the extra 120mil and 65 was brought back in, markovic, origi, Moreno, can, manquillo, and apart from manquillo all are tipped for big things and there not even 6 months into there career and they were a waste of money, lallana-lambert-lovren were brought for now and they came from a high pressing team which is why I am annoyed at Brendan going all possession based but never want him sacked, he's a top coach who the eds just hate! He is also battling Chelsea, city, Tottenham, arsenal, Everton and united and the eds said because Bayern are so strong it's acceptable for Dortmund to be so poor and klopps success come when Bayern were poor, the team that was there was unreal tbh lewondowski, Sahin, lag aaa, gundogen, subotic, bender, hummels, schemlzer, pizchek. Dow that compare to Adam, downing, skrtel, Johnson, Enrique, sterling (still a Albany), Susao (still a baby) Carroll, Gerrard (on dropping form), reina (on droping form) ! BRENDAN HAS DONE A FANTASTIC JOB and the majority are so ungrateful. It wasn't Down to Suarez, he helped but its so disrespectful to the other players to put it down to just Suarez! Support through thick an thin, te majority should be ashamed of themselves! YNWA!!

{Ed001's Note - how is Rodgers a great coach? He was sacked from every previous job but one, where he took over a ready made team set up for his style of play and took them up. He then got the job with us on the back of one decent job, tried to turn us to his style of play and couldn't do it. So for a few months he changed it and we did well, but ultimately failed to win anything. He then decides to revert back to his style, while spending the summer choosing players who don't fit it to add to the squad.

Klopp, on the other hand, has been successful over a number of years, rebuilding repeatedly on a limited budget, while seeing his best players go to his main rival. He has done a fantastic job, not Rodgers, who has merely had a few good months and now the deluded are calling him great and fantastic! This is delusion of the highest order.

If Rodgers is such a great coach, why is it than we are a third of the way through his 3rd season and he still hasn't managed to coach the players into being able to play his chosen style of play? The man was lucky at Swansea, this was his opportunity to prove himself, he is not doing so yet. The only ones who should be ashamed of themselves are the blinkered who support blindly, to try and prove they are some kind of superfan.

Personally, I want what is best for the club, that is because I do support it, and I prefer to change what isn't working, rather than just try and show I am a better fan because I 'support' dross. But you carry on following blindly, and remember that Shanks only came in because change was needed, if everyone had carried on blindly supporting failure back then, we would never have won all our trophies since his time.}

BR is NOT a great coach simply because he`s won nothing yet and if he carries on with his disgusting attitude and stubborness, he will never be one. All great coaches learn from their mistakes at an early age. Even Mou got fired at Benfica because he was allegedly mouthing off to the owner and learnt from that and went to Uniao Leiria to prove himself and got the Porto job afterwards and the rest is history. BR has shown no indication yet that he is willing to learn from his mistakes. He`s been here for 3 yrs YET cannot fix the defence, keeps playing off form players and is shambolic in the TW yet to some he is a great coach. He might be one later but based on visual evidence, it ain`t going to happen. Comparing him w/ Klopp who has a proven pedigree and a trophy case with a CV to boot is just plain stupidity and blind faith.

Rj, Rodgers didn't build that team last season.

He signed Mingolet, Sakho, Coutinho and Sturridge. Mingolet was probably partially why we didn't win the league, Sakho wasn't Rodgers' choice, Coutinho was poor for tge first 25 games, and Sturridge admittedly was incredible.

His team was sat on the bench in the form of Cissokho, Toure, Moses, Aspas, Alberto, Ilori, Assaidi, Yesil, Allen, Borini etc. He inherited about two thirds of his team and then got them playing well when he finally took some advice.

01 Dec 2014 08:11:27
Just thought I would comment on the new breed of fan bit. I have to say I whole heatedly agree that the new breed of fan are only fans of winning. I appreciate that people aren't happy with what is happening on the pitch but some of language used in people's posts towards BR and a lot of our players is disgusting. Supporters "support" their team through the bad times as well guys. I know this will all fall on deaf ears but just having my 2 pence worth

Actually I think there were a lot of complaints here despite the win on Saturday. So I think the more accurate term would be fans of winning comfortably or fans of winning not as a result os pure luck or fans of winning consistently or even better fans of winning trophies.

Nothing new about this and in my view nothing wrong about it. Fans always want their team to win and moan when it doesn't. I don't think it is lack of support. I didn't see many empty seats in Enfield or people stop singing YNWA before the match. It is ok to have high expectations and to demand to do something when the team plays really poorly, especially given the hig hopes after last year.

ManU are where they are now partly because of the anger of the supporters of what happened to them last year with Moyce. And Chelsea and Man City are there because their owners refused to accept poor performance by managers when they had much higher expectations.

The day when the Liverpool supporters think that being in the bottom half of the table (where we are now) after playing more than quarter of the games of this year PL is alrighty and not a big deal, will be a sad day for the club.

01 Dec 2014 11:12:50
There is hardly anything to be proud of sitting way below after finishing second last season.

01 Dec 2014 13:01:18
Fanobip,

I think you have missed the centiment of my post. Clearly I am not happy with the current string of results but I think that people go about voicing their opinion in a very nasty and disrespectful way. I didn’t see all of this negativity on the site when we were winning most of our games last season or the slating of BR. I’m not defending the decisions he has made this season but support is something people should look up in the dictionary.

87red, you`ve answered your own question w/ the word "winning" in your post. We were winning which is why nobody posted that much negativity and I don`t know if you were here a lot BUT I can tell you that there were some clueless fans on here (they know who they are) who would criticize the team,, manager and owners win/lose or draw.

01 Dec 2014 07:38:32
Congratulations to the boys on a hard fought victory, At least the endeavour in the second half in an attempt to win the game was a big positive.
I can't help but feel a little sorry for our attacking midfielders this season, Last season we played a high press attacking style of football that was complimented perfectly by the little 10 yard runs in behind the defence that both Suarez and Sturridge make endlessly during 90 mins, Our midfielders must love nothing more than to pick up the ball, look up and see movement. This season we have 3 forwards who all want the ball to feet, you can see the lack of movement up top means they have to force a pass or play it sideways or back. I read an article on line saying "What has happened to Coutinho" highlighting his 67% pass accuracy against Stoke.
For me it is no surprise he has broken into the Brazil national team while some may see him as struggling at club level, He clearly doesn't have the same problems playing for Brazil.

Second thing before people start getting excited about Mingolet's save from Bojan although it was class, there has never been any doubt he is an excellent shot stopper that has never been in question, The problem he has is he looks like he might start crying if you shout at him. You want a goalkeeper to have a big presence, be vocal, command his area, be an excellent decision maker and save shots, I'm afraid he only does the latter well, If he went to my school he would be having his dinner money taken off him on a daily basis.

{Ed001's Note - not just that, but he is still flapping at crosses coming in to the box. I think it is time he was instructed to just stay on his line and let the defence deal with them, as he is only making things messy by charging out. At least on his line he has a chance to save things, if the defenders don't deal with the ball in.}

Agree ed, what worried me is we have seen this indecision from last season and it hasn't improved, He comes off his line when he should stay, and stays when he should come out?

{Ed001's Note - the coaching needs to be looked at, these are things the coach should be sorting out.}

01 Dec 2014 11:30:51
Brendan or a goalkeeping coach should be sorting it out, Ed? Or both?

{Ed001's Note - goalkeeping coach. Though Rodgers should be getting shut of him by now for failing to do so and replacing him with someone who will.}

I still do not understand why we signed Mignolet in the first place. If his issues with commanding the box and kicking were seen as his weaknesses, why did we sign him? Was it due to lack of options in the market or did the club just go for the cheapest option? This looks like a classic case of LFC spending money for the sake of it.

I have been saying the same thing for weeks. The GK coach is there to make him better and work on his weaknesses and that is not happening hence, the coach should be sacked.

I would have thought after last season's atrocious performances from Migs that the goal keeping coach should have been sacked back then.

Unfortunately Mcgoveb, he`s still there giving stupid goalkeeping lessons to Migs. PATHETIC!

01 Dec 2014 01:28:38
A question for ed001 and perhaps EMS as well as he seems to have a large knowledge of our youth. Do you know what the plans are for shey ojo? He's a regular for the under 21's at 17 and already seems above that level. Would just like an opinion on him as I'm always trying to follow the youth. Cheers

{Ed001's Note - when old enough, the plan is to loan him out.}

This is his first season for the U-21's as a regular. If he does very well, he might be included in the first team squad for a game or two but he is more likely to be loaned out next season or the season after next.

He's another excellent young player in the mould of Jordan Ibe. Pacey, powerful, versatile, technically gifted, a pretty decent shot on him as well.

I don't have any inside knowledge on the academy though mate, I just love watching them. Although LFC tv look intent on stopping me and I've yet to find a streaming site for it.

He is undoubtedly a great player though. If Rodgers manages to bugger up Ibe and Ojo then he really is inept!

These are the types of players that should b getting a chance instead of buying players from other clubs/academies to take their place.

01 Dec 2014 02:03:50
Hi to all the EDS and fellow REDS

Apologies for bringing the subject of transfers up again, but going back, why did BR sell Carroll to go and buy Lambert this year? Why buy and sit them on the bench? By buying so many, has BR not blocked the way of youngster into the first team? Last year kids got breaks because our first team squad was 'light'. This year we are still light and we could have saved 70M+ by sitting some of the kids on the bench.

I think, whatever happens (Barring top4 or winning CL, yeah, I know) the transfers or rather the disappointment with them will be BR's downfall. Did Suarez and Sturridge make the team tick so much? Will we recover when Sturridge comes back? If he comes back? Watch this space. A couple of intelligent transfer would've made a huge difference. But would FSG trust BR with another penny? Would we? Meanwhile, we will continue to struggle.

P.S. Name the manager who could've signed Aguero for 8-9M (went to Athletico price went to 25M+, Bale (full back days) for around 7 (price to !) and the owners didn't have or wouldn't give him the money.
f

Rafa? If so, it doesn`t really matter to me because he was just as dreadful in the TW as BR is now because in his 6yrs, he bought over 70 players and only about 10 of them panned out. If that is a record some are proud of then they need their heads checked, for sure. However if it is not Rafa, then I don`t know who it is.