Liverpool Banter Archive October 01 2013

01 Oct 2013 22:51:48
Roy Keane's beard. That is all

We will win the league when BR and more importantly the players begin to believe it too!

I remember desperately reading the papers in anticipation that we would sign him from Forest.

Never happened but would of made a massive difference to our club.

I seem to recall that he did not sign for us as he didn't think he would get regular first team football with us - we were that good at the time.

01 Oct 2013 22:11:40
I see Lucas is still getting stick for not being good enough. A few months back, I put the question on here to a few Liverpool fans, see what the thoughts were.

My point was that despite being good defensively, he offers very little going forward Which I don't think anyone can complain with. I feel that there should only be 1 true holding midfielder in the team otherwise the midfield lacks any attacking prowess.

However, I was wrong to question Lucas. He is a very important player for us. The question marks should really be over Gerrard's head in my opinion. He has been court out defensively, had to make last ditch tackles and blocks on occasions. And in attack he has been rather subdued. Opinions more than welcome, just how I see it

Most people from what I've seen on here seem to agree (as do I) that Gerrard needs to be used as an impact sub.
Lucas and Henderson have to start in midfield along with Coutinho, Suarez and Sturridge in attacking roles. Where exactly the rest of the squad fits in and which formation to play, that's a bit more tricky. Oh and perhaps Mignolet in goal could help things.

So basically Aggers Mohawk, you criticise one player, Lucas, then a few months later you accept you were wrong. You then repeat your actions by turning your attention to Stevie G, and start criticising him.
Why not just for a change, try supporting your team and stop choosing the next player you want to slag off. We are supposed to be supporters, try it for once

Stevie might have lost some pace, but the pass to sturidge for suarez's fist was pure class. I do agree on not needing 2 holding midfielders.
I would like to see aspas at the centre of sturridge and suarez with moses behind against palace.with hendo and gerrard in midfiled.

Ynwa

We've seen the results when lucas is out of the side, Liverpool have been much worse.
Need more cover in the centre though

So u didn't see gerards ball to sturridge r d 2 worldy saves from keepers otherwise he wuda had 2 goals, rodgers is playing counter football and football from deep. don't tell me hendersin r lucas are guna play defence splitting passes

Gerrard an impact sub!! Are you having a laugh! Un funking believable! Stevie still one of the best players at that club, just had a dip in his form. I'm not allowed on here to throw insults but lad I wish I could at you

Agree with FowlerisGod. people are so quick to write off players instead of getting behind them and allowing them to play through to find form. However, I also remeber things from Sunday like one great pass to set up Sturridge then Suarez, assist for 1st goal, 1 good defensive header. Hardly poor. just not explosive as he used to be.

Maybe not impact sub but Gerrard should not be playing every minute of every game. His game is based on power and grabbing games by the scruff of the neck. He can no longer do it for 90 minutes every game. As a result he's changed his game somewhat to enable him to play 90 minutes, but by doing so has taken away a large portion of his game. I would much rather have him playing 90 minutes at full strength and power then starting on the bench the next game getting 20 minutes to tear it up at full stretch. Then 65 minutes the game after, also at full stretch then replaced. Then back to a 90 minute slog.
You need to play to your strengths and Gerrards not. The midfield needs to be pressing when not in possetion and Gerrard doesn't have the legs anymore for that. He looks great going forward at times still but he needs to take a back seat now and again. I can't think of a better player for Liverpool FC than Gerrard as an impact sub now and again.

Stevie a sub, are you mad!He should be the first name on the team sheet even if he is playing with only one leg!

Did he ever do it for 90 minutes last season was one of his best he started quite slow then to once we play more attacking football it will suit him with his think we will coming into November

I think there is a case for playing 1 defensive midfielder against teams who will line up to purely defend.
I will be interested to see if we do this against Palace as I can see them lining up very defensively on Saturday.

01 Oct 2013 21:47:55
after watching arsenal easily blow away rafa and napoli tonight I don't think luis saurez will be to happy, they, re on fire

01 Oct 2013 20:41:54
What's your favourite Manchester United moment?
Moyes taking over, us beating them 4-1 or Man City breaking their hearts? (I ran across the street shouting when City beat QPR 3-2.)

This is to lighten the mood for Liverpool fans.

Get Real mate, Utd are having just a blip. In part Moyes was to blame for his team selection. Also the tactics played into WBA hands who look to attack on the break

If you look at the game; * a very weak back line, inexperience, too old, players out of position

Jones is a strong cbk or holding midfielder who happens to play defensive minded fullback. That day was told to bomb up the field from the first minute of the game. This exposed a aging Rio Ferinand to one on one's, which he is likely to lose.

Teams are also targeting Rio because they think he is slower and his positional play/decisions have become poor. To play Rio, you need to give him good cover from full-back and DM. He was exposed by fullback's bombing on and also Anderson gave him very poor cover. Carrick was playing on the other side.

Utd fans don't like Evans because he is cultured cbk and not as strong as Vidic. Buttner also very old made some bad tackles and didn't do too much upfront.
01 De Gea
04 Jones Booked
05 Ferdinand
06 Evans
28 Buttner Booked
________________________
anderson was poor, Fellanini just as useless. Wingers didn't track back enough.

17 Nani
08 Anderson (Fellaini - 68' )
16 Carrick Booked
26 Kagawa (Januzaj - 46' )
10 Rooney
______________________
14 Hernandez (Van Persie - 58' )

Van persie was sitting it out because of europe. This was one of those games where Moyes wanted to rest his best players, and also give WBA a good battering at home. He would of been better off playing it more defensive and not letting wba counter attack them.

I don't think he knows what the players are able to do, and when they need a fergie hairdryer treatment.

Favourite Manc moment has to be Carra on MNF saying: 'Nobody grows up wanting to be a Gary Neville'. Absolutely priceless, was rolling around with laughter

For me its the Man city - QPR match, I can't imagine my happiness the moment Aguero scored the winner. It was unbelievable.

02 Oct 2013 12:13:26
4-1 at OT. Ronaldo and rooney looked shatterd. and Sir Alex was very quiet as the whole stadium, apart from the travelling fans.
The previous day, Rooney quoted ". let's end this Title chase tom, If we beat them, We would be crowned champions. "
We litreally ripped them all over the pitch.
Alonos and gerrard was unstoppable. Torres at his usual best.

01 Oct 2013 19:29:10
I think our 3-4-3 formation is going to be the making of our season . With 3 attackers at one end of the field, 3 defenders at the other and 4 midfielders going up and down the pitch I think we will become a force .

We have more than enough centre backs to make the formation work and if we can get Cissokho & Johnson on the flanks with our first choice attackers at the top of end of the field we will be very difficult to beat and dangerous in the final third .

I hope Brendan Rodgers sticks with it from now on and once the team gets used to it we should look superb with and without the ball .

The 3-4-1-2 or 3-4-3 or whatever it is, it gives the opposition too much space in the wings, especially in the attacking areas and the better teams will take advantage of it.

All fromations have their pros and cons, I think I heard Gary Neville say the way to play against 3 centre backs is to spread the play as wide as possible .

That being the case, I would hope the team could learn to anticipate it and cope with it .

I suppose we will just see but I am looking forward to seeing more of it just like in the days of Roy Evans .

That would be the major downside, unfortunately, AG. In theory, the RCB or LCB should have enough freedom to chase a bit wider than normal, but if the wingback gets caught well out of position, it's a mismatch/overload waiting to happen. Conversely, it can create problems for the opponent as well though. Given the staff we have (good wingbacks, strength at CB, and two good strikers who work well off each other) personally I suspect it's a formation we'll be seeing a lot of.

Its a rubbish formation, Our passing has gone to shot, Sunderland made us look good due to Di Cannio stupidity. That sunderland team didn't have fullbacks, so our forwards had the beating of them in wide positions {Ed001's Note - they do have fullbacks, one came on to replace the midfielder they had in the position up until then, so hardly Di Canio's fault. The other side, well that is because a lad you might remember well for his screamer against United for us, Dossena, is injured.}

4-3-3 is better than this 5-2-1-2 .
It's just all over the place at the back just trying to squeeze in Sakho. Henderson hasn't a clue at RWB we need to go back to an attacking formation against C Palace

01 Oct 2013 16:35:08
I'd love to see Ilori get a chance at right back he could not be any worse than Wisdom and with his pace it could be a master stroke but then again we got to just wait and watch while BR does his tinkering. Jan we must get a proper DM and a attacking RW. N'Zonzi and Gio Dos Santos 4 me.

I think Wisdom's getting really unfairly criticised by fans. I think he's always been perfectly competent at right back. Clearly doesn't offer so much going forward but I cannot think of any games he's played at RB where he's made a howler or whatever. I always think he performs the defensive duties well. He had a difficult time at CB against Notts County fair enough, but CB is a different kettle of fish altogether

Wisdom is a fine backup RB, but as you say, he is probably not a good candidate as a backup RWB which is what we need at the moment.

He's been at fault for at least one goal every game he's played this season?

Swampy jocks steady on that's not true not by a long shot he got dropped after Swansea when he done nothing wrong he was left with two players with Hendo ordered to help central had to cover for skertel who was covering for sakho who was his first game so wisdom done pretty good if ya ask me

FFS, what the hell has Wisdom done wrong to justify so much criticism?

People forget Wisdom is still just 20. Fans put so much pressure on youngsters, its ridiculous. Do you expect them to be to the finished article at an early age? Mistakes will be made by youngsters and they learn and develop by them. Same goes for Sterling - people saying he's been poor this season. How often has he played? Again, he's just 18. Have patience

ANZ I agree with you, plus wisdom is a center back as is kelly . but if we can't give them game time then they must be loaned out to gain the experience they need to become better players, but when the transfer window was open people on here was say we don't need another right back because we have kelly and wisdom, johnson is injury prone as is agger, we bought cover for agger and enrique but none for johnson, and untill we do I will always worry about that position, I just can't wait for BR to have a full squad to pick from

The key to this season, is going to be teaching these players to play in multiple positions.

EG Henderson RB, DM, RMC
Agger LB, DM, CBK

sakho and skrtel are not able to play any other positions, due to fear. CBK's like them hate not have protection and their ball skill/decisions seem too poor

01 Oct 2013 22:45:42
sakho plays LB and all his games for france was at lb and cdm. stop talking rubbish please
all your posts are absoulte tosh

01 Oct 2013 12:13:44
Ed001 or 30 what do you guys think our priority in January should be now we have played a couple a matches to see where? Main priority is a DM and AM or forward type of player who scorers goals {Ed001's Note - defensive midfielder for me, one with some real bite, that can free Lucas up a bit more to get forward. That would be the main thing for me, I don't think we are really desperately short in any other area right now.}

Interesting think we all agree but by freeing up lucas do you mean drop Gerrard? And letting lucas get more forward be interesting to see him up the top end the pitch hopefully show he has brazilian blood haha

I think we need to find gerrard's long term successor. However, easier said than done! Hopefully a RB is looked at because Johnson is probably are weakest link in the first team. Also knocking on a bit now, 29 isn't he? don't think we can rely on kelly's fitness and wisdom isn't quite ready I think.

Personally I think we mainly need a backup CDM (someone younger with potential, like a Rode type) for Lucas. I really don't see it being feasible for us to afford (or get) a better first choice CDM than Lucas as I don't think there are many out there and those that are would likely fail the 'feasible' test.

Ed1 lucas is not good enough for our team, yann m'vila to replace him, lucas is the worst Liverpool player to play 200 games? we have an invisible midfield with him and stevie, both positions need to be strengthened and gerrard used as an impact sub {Ed001's Note - seriously, you have no idea what you are talking about, clearly you know nothing about the game if you think that. M'Vila is not a patch on Lucas, either attitude or ability wise.}

Have to agree with Ed001 there majestic69- Lucas is far better than M'Vila in my opinion. I can only think of maybe 10 or so clearly better CDMs than Lucas and I don't see any of those as being realistic targets (Lars Bender and Matic probably being the most obtainable and even them two we would have very, very little chance of getting I would think).

I have to agree with Majestic here. Lucas is simply not good enough, not as a DM anyway. Maybe beside a DM he could be okay, ideally he wouldn't be in the first 11 at all though in all honesty. M'Vila is an animal and although his attitude is poor he'd be a great addition if he could sort his issues out. {Ed001's Note - M'Vila is an animal? I worry about people if they think that he is anything special. He is simply not good enough. You can agree with whoever you want, but the fact you think Lucas isn't good enough suggests you have no idea what you are talking about! I can remember the same things being said about Makalele until Real Madrid fell apart when he left. The fact that Liverpool fell apart after Lucas got injured should tell anyone with sense that he is obviously a very good player. I suppose people never notice the best DM's, because they are positioned right and don't have to hare about all game.}

I don't think it's fair to say I have no idea what I'm talking about Ed. I respect your opinion that you think Lucas is decent like I do with many others who think the same. I think the fact Lucas racked up 5 yellows in 6 games shows he's a liability. His positioning is poor, his tackling is poor and he is easily dribbled around. These are the most important parts of a DM's job. I did a bit of research earlier and it showed Lucas has a successful tackle % of 67% with Morgan Schneiderlin leading the PL tackle % table with 90%. 67% doesn't scream "top DM" to me. {Ed001's Note - that's because you are one of those people who think it is all about tackling, which it is not. The best DMs are in position to not need to tackle. As for his yellow cards, I would have to say that is more about the lack of any kind of help from the players in midfield with him. Gerrard has been very poor defensively this season, constantly being caught out of position and that is leaving Lucas exposed. By the way, please don't quote stats like that to me, they are simply a way for the Commolli's of this world to try and look knowledgeable and are totally meaningless on their own. Schneiderlin is a good player, but is he covering on his own defensively and so being stretched to make tackles? No, he has a defensive midfielder alongside him in Wanyama, so he is able to pick and choose his tackles more carefully, knowing he is not going to have to make it or watch a player race into a huge gap left by his midfield partner sauntering back and Moses being a complete liability defensively. Schneiderlin also has a team pressing around him, so that he is challenging opponents with no time on the ball to get it under control and out of his reach. We seem to have forgotten how to press the ball this season, constantly sitting back and giving the opposition time on the ball.}

Alright Ed well we're always going to disagree here. All I can say is roll on January when a new DM is hopefully bought and Lucas is out of that role. Only then can we really judge what kind of a job he's been doing.

Other than Sturridge, Lucas has been pound for pound, our best player this season so far. I'm afraid J-L you are talking sh*te!

02 Oct 2013 09:03:24
Lucas for president
Seriously though, he would have been my preferred choice for the vice captaincy.

01 Oct 2013 10:07:19
If Br wanan play 3 at the Back, why do we need a DM?.
Can we start Hendo and Gerrard together?

01 Oct 2013 13:08:13
If you play 3 at the back you do need a defensive midfielder. You just don't need two. Gerrard needs to have the shackles taken off. Playing him and Lucas in deep roles is no good. I will give him credit where it's due, Gerrard was better against Sunderland than he has been in terms of passing. However, in terms of his mobility and pressing, we were stil over run in midfield. I keep saying it, Gerrard needs half an hour in the free role behind Sturridge and Suarez. He can be poweful, creative and clinical whilst busting a gut for the last 25/30 minutes of the match. Captain fantastic, needs to become Super Sub. Playing all game he is a liability. With Lucas and Allen out banned/injured, he kind of needs to play in the defensive midfield position against Crystal Palace. Hopefully Henderson can demonstrate the importance of having a more mobile central midfielder though as he's sure to play alongside him. My midfield when everyone is fit would be Lucas (deeper player), Henderson (box to box) and Coutinho (in the free role). Give Gerrard the free role for the last 30 where Coutinho tends to go missing anyway. This can fit in with our new 3-4-1-2 formation perfectly, but we cannot persist with Lucas and Gerrard both playing deep roles. It needs to be one or the other, and Lucas is just better at breaking up play and calmer in possession. Gerrard is stronger and will spray the hollywood balls about, but that's not what we need. If we played without a defensive midfielder completely though, I fear the defense would be exposed. I just hope Rodgers sees sooner rather than later that the Gerrard-Lucas midfield is not a good combo. We have been dominated every single game this season for large spells because of their inability to press forward and retain possession. I would seriously be considering making Henderson captain if I were Rodgers. I seriously don't know why he is so under rated on here. I'm sick of us relying on Gerrard for 90 minutes though. Henderson is our most reliable performer who always gives 100% and when he plays in midfield, he will show everyone why the people paid to know what they are talknig about rate him so highly. He has played nearly every game this year and although some have been more quiet than others, he hasn't played bad once. Yes his crossing wasn't the best against Sunderland, but rather than focus on the crossing (which has never been a strength to his game) why not focus on that lung bursting 89th minute run that essentially created the last goal. He has been excellent so far this season, and when he gets a run out in his proper position, he'll be even better.

I know it will be the point I get the most stick for, so I'll try justify why I'd make Hendo captain:
a- Regular first team player.
b- best workrate in the team.
c- can drive us forward as a team.
d- he is very vocal.
e- history as captain of England U21's.
f- he has that old style English fight.
g- he is young and will easily be in this team for the next 10 years.
Gerrard was made captain at 22 years old if my memory serves me correctly (as Hyypia was dropped at around about Gerrards age now, 33). It had a galvanising effect on Gerrards career and helped to shape him into the player he was 3/4 years ago. Now his time has been and gone, it's time for new blood to take the reins. The way to achieve sustained success is to have a captain willing to sweat blood and die for the team, who will be there for a long period of his career (John Terry, Gerrard, Vidic etc). Those are just recent examples as I am too young to remember the great Liverpool sides. I suspect they too had a similar kind of captain though (I heard Souness was a bit of a battler?). Gerrards age has took the fight out of his legs now though and whilst I don't want him sold or to retire or anything, I want him to take a lesser role on and let the kids take over. Because as we all know now Hansen, you bloody well do win something with kids!

Sorry to write all this on your post Harry. Controversial, I know. Everyone is entitled to an opinion though, right? On a side note, really hope McLaughlin gets some game time this weekend against Palace. He could save us millions on buying a right back next summer. Imagine a right sided Bale. McLaughlin is better than Bale was at 18, but let's just hope he develops at the same rate Bale did and maintains a defensive side to his game. Being good at youth level, and making it in the big league is a different story completely. That right wing back role was made for McLaughlin though.

YNWAdam

01 Oct 2013 13:43:08
YNWA Adam.

I got your point, As I too feel We are too defensive this time around. Since Lucas is suspended, I would put Hendo and Gerard in the middle with 3 at the Back and Let Kelly get a game at RB, He isn't playing at all. He is availble for selection as per Eds.
I would also drop Mosses to bench and Put Alberto behind Sturridge and Suarez, that's why we bought him.
And unless you don't play them at top level, How we going to expect him to be a Change the Game
The ratio of one EPL game to reserves or U21 is 1:50.
Henderson should be either PLayed in the middle or he shouldn't be playing.
I know about his workrate, But when you have a RB with you availble (Kelly), Its crime to deploy a midfielder in its place.

Adam got it spot on there regarding the midfield. Henderson in Gerrards place alongside Lucas would be perfect and his energy would invigorate the whole team. Dropping Gerrard further back was a good idea at the time, it seemed to suit his let's be honest slower and aged body. But he is playing every single minute of every game and its taking its toll. If he is benched and dropped now and again he will have the energy, drive and desire to put in the performances he used (and still capable of) to. He's spreading himself out too thin basically.
I'm a big fan of Rodgers but I have said it before (a lot) and I will say it again he needs the balls to drop Gerrard when needed.

Henderson captain you for real he is viewpoints dirt kyut loved for his efforts but come on captain of lfc not even getting in to it he is a very good player but captain?

01 Oct 2013 17:31:55
Very serious dezy. It has gotten to that stage where we need to start thinking about who will be the next captain. I think realostically its got to be someone British as they tend to be more loyal to English clubs and hang around for a while. They must also be young enough to be Cap for the next 7 years at least. So in the first team we currently have Sturridge, Hendo, Allen, Kelly and Wisdom. Hendo as Wisdom are the two main leaders there. Wisdom is not a starter though. Unless another academy graduate steps up, we will need to buy our future captain.

YNWAdam

Agger to take over from Stevie until we get a proper leader with quality I think when coutinho is back fit and Johnston is fit Henderson will get dropped down you see him starting with a fully fitted squad?

01 Oct 2013 21:47:30
See him starting, no. Rodgers doesn't have the bottle to drop Gerrard. If he did my starting XI would be - Mignolet; Toure, Agger, Sakho; Johnson, Henderson, Lucas, Cissokho; Coutinho; Suarez, Sturridge - in a 3-4-1-2 formation. Gerrard I would use as an impact sub for Coutinho at about the 60-70 minute mark when Coutinho starts to fade. It happens at the end of every game and I think for 25/30 minutes Stevie could really add some bite to the game in his better attacking role. He needs to be attacking, even if its only for half an hour. He's wasted in a deep role. I don't want Gerrard to be remembered as the 'deep lying playmaker who's status held us back'. He was a great player. Now he's a good player. But he could be the best impact sub. How would you cope with a fit and raring to go Gerrard who has half an hour to just 'smash it' so to speak? You just wouldn't. He came on as a second half sub against Napoli 3 years ago and scored a hat trick.

YNWAdam

Have to disagree. Hendo not at the level where he'd command respect as captain. Not sure he's an automatic starter either if everyone is fit.

Mignolet; Toure, Agger, Sakho; Johnson, Lucas, Gerrard, Coutinho, Enrique/Cissokho; Suarez, Sturridge

Hendo will be battling Allen & Lucas for that spot alongside Gerrard. Given the others players in the team and this formation a fit Joe Allen is the most suited as he creates angles for passes.

01 Oct 2013 04:41:37
Reds/Eds,
With the gutter press linking us with Pastore to challenge Coutinho, why not go for Kevin De Bruyne as he would be cheaper and less wages. He is not in the CL squad and has lost his place to Mata according to BBC and he wants to leave.
Also Manchester United may be reintroducing a women's team, with Ryan Giggs set to be physio for them.

“Giggity Giggity Goo”

01 Oct 2013 01:49:10
Forget pastore I'd rather have Barkley. Ed's have we ever done business with Everton or isit like a Man U situation where they'd never sell to us? {Ed002's Note - It has been very rare - but Liverpool has never shown interest in Barkley.}

If Barkley keeps his feet on the ground, listens and works hard, he's the next England Stevie G I reckon. Same type of player.

01 Oct 2013 08:46:48
Rose Barkley is gem of a player. Everytime I watch him play, I feel amazed with his talent.

Well Gerrard helped persuade him to stay at Everton, maybe he can persuade him to cross the park.

Red Rum

01 Oct 2013 10:07:53
i agree with harry he is a great player and harry should know as I have a feeling he gets to watch him a lot at goodison park.

01 Oct 2013 10:28:54
Ross barkley will cost in exess of 30 mil
Hes a everton lad doesn't like us
We don't really have a chance of getting him

Hel be Manchester United or chelsea bound I reckon

Plus we should be concentratin on our own talent suso is class! Soo is coutinho that position is taken really

01 Oct 2013 12:01:11
http://tinyurl.com/kep8wg5

No chance.

Over rated

The lad's got an amazing attitude. I hope he stays loyal to Everton and become the Stevie G of them. Though we're rivals I feel for them cause they have to sell all their key players when bigger clubs came knocking.

Your obviously not from round here. I hope he leaves like all the other bitters do. God I hate them

30 Sep 2013 23:27:06
Too many people worried about how we are winning but with poor performance. United won the league last year and never looked like a strong side all season, relying massively on Van Persie. I like our position in the table. Grind out a few more wins, stay in top 4 and give FSG something to think about for January like adding another CM, and making a push