Liverpool Banter Archive December 21 2013

21 Dec 2013 22:20:17
Firstly, hope all reds fans world wide have great Christmas! Well it's been while (new sign on now, was previously T-Mac) . But never mind that. I doubted BR and will always be a KD fan, but I have to say a massive well done and a big thanks to BR. Top of the league, playing well enough to be there and scoring goals! Strange for me but I went on the spuds site last week THEY gave us stick (0-5 really).

We are a young, improving team with a true world class player, who I know wanted out, but guess what he's staying which is great for us! Two tough games coming up but I'd hoped for 6 from 12 in the 4 games, spuds, Cardiff, citeh and chelski. Come 4th Jan we will be top or top 4 then good for me, build on it and let's go!

21 Dec 2013 22:07:06
I know him being spotted at Goodison means nothing, but does anyone else think M'villa would really help our midfield. I know he has off field issues, but BR has shown an ability to handle guys like that. I was watching a match from Euro 2012 and the guy is clearly talented.

No. Overrated. Another player who thinks he's made it before he's actually done anything. Anything! Just my opinion.

21 Dec 2013 21:39:04
Loving the team at the moment Suarez goes without saying but hendo flanno Allen Coutinho all have been fab! The only concern I have is Johnson, he hasn't been great for last 3 games in my opinion, city keep conceding we've defo got a chance especially if zabaleta is still out.

21 Dec 2013 21:02:27
Well play by the team today. but people are underrating Allen work in our gelling midfield. his pressing and winning back possession is what has been lacking when Gerrard is in the midfield. infact Allen is big part of our midfield cohession, I wouldn't start Gerrard over him now. Good team performance and he showed yet again that he has no size, Suarez!! can't get enough!

21 Dec 2013 20:42:27
Just wondering if there was any news on the redevelopment. I've heard a few rumours touted that redevelopment will be done in a few stages:

1: expand to 60,000 to get us earning more gate money and to expand the commercial market.

2: was mentioned that Ian Ayer had held talks with the council about getting the capacity closer to 70-75,000 seats. Would love it if this was true as there is an enormous waiting list for season tickets.

Just passing on what I heard

{Ed002's Note - The cost of doing that may well be prohibitive.}

Agree with ed002.
The 60,000 "sweetspot" is about the ideal balance between cost, planning restrictions, and revenue.
This increase is said to be planned -
1. Extra circa 8000 on a new tier to the main stand, with emphasis on more corporate capacity ;
2. This paying for a later new tier on the Anfield Road.
3. There could be a future infill on the corners. But these areas are more expensive to develop and would not necessarily bring in corresponding revenue (who wants to be stuck in the corner?)
But 60k is where everyone agrees its going. Providing the remaining affected residents can be won over.

{Ed002's Note - It is not just that, over 60k and Liverpool must pay for improvements to the transport infrastructure.}

21 Dec 2013 19:53:35
Congratulations on returning to the top, obviously I hope its only until Monday but either way you are looking very very good value for it.

Don't pay to much attention to those who are going to say can they do it against the big teams, its not dropping points against teams out side the top 7 that counts most come May, at which point I hope we're still both right in there

21 Dec 2013 18:58:32
According to Barrett certain clauses in Suarez's contract:

1) They don't have to listen to offers from English clubs.

2) If a European club attempted to buy him the price would be higher than Bale's fee. Around £100m

{Ed002's Note - I rather doubt it is as simple as that. The first would clearly be a restraint of trade that could be legally challenged. The second cannot be enforced beyond the law under which it is written.}

I told you this the other day before the contract was signed as a good mate of Stevie told me so.

I'm not necessarily agreeing with it, he has been a bit off the boil lately.

Couple of questions if you don't mind.

What exactly constitutes restraint of trade? Say like in the summer, with the Arsenal bid that was rejected out of hand. Hypothetically if another club, say, Bayern bid 30m and we accepted it but rejected Arsenal's could that be legally challenged?

Like Juventus bid less for RvP than Utd did, if they sold him to Juventus instead what could happen? Or they way Utd wouldn't sell us Gabriel Heinze, or supposedly Fulham's asking price for Dempsey was higher for us because of the whole tapping up thing.

Like can't a club act in it's best interests without being in breach of the law? Even in the summer John Henry said we won't sell Suarez "especially to Arsenal".

For the second I suppose I'll read on the difference between termination clauses, release clauses and all that stuff, or if there is a clause it has to be the same for all clubs? And to think I actually thought about doing law. 'Suits' makes it pretty interesting!

{Ed002's Note - What constitutes a restraint of trade is to say in a contract that he could not play for any other club in a particular country. It is simply not possible to do that. As for the second point, people make far too much of the various clauses - I have explained it on number of times, but will do so again as it is a popular theme as, according to the posters, he has several hundred such clauses in his contract.

The "buy out" clause is legally binding between a club and a player. The "buy out" is effectively what it says - a means for the player to buy himself out of the contract. As an example, if a player wishes to buy himself out of a contract, he pays the applicable FA the amount of the "buy out" clause effectively becoming a free agent. The problem is that in most cases a player would need to obtain that money from the buying club - and this is fraught with issues regarding "tapping up" and, of course, taxation as it can be seen as income for the player and would therefore be subject to income tax. There was a test case about the taxation issue in Spain about three years ago.

A "release clause" is far more common in that it gives a figure that the club would accept for the sale of a player to another club - but it is not legally binding except where both parties are in the same country, and even then that only applies in certain countries - notably Spain and Portugal. These are normally unreasonably high figures (Messi at Barcelona for example) introduced to act as a deterrent for hostile bids - and even then the club could easily block a move. However, if a club does agree to match a release clause then the club would be obliged to ask the player if he is interested. Examples are Goetze who decide he wanted to move and Cavani who, regardless of two offers that were made in 2012 that matched or equated to his then "release clause" recognised Napoli did not want to sell and could block a move abroad and he accepted a new package. Since then Napoli said they will listen to offers of €60M or so and indeed accepted a bid this summer - which is of course different.

There is then the becoming popular "termination clause" which is binding between the player and the club and if met would see an offer from anywhere accepted and the player given the opportunity to make a call on a move. This overcomes the issues associated with "buy out" clauses as the money would be paid by one club to another.}

So say Suarez has an 80m release clause in his contract and Arsenal and Real both meet that value. We're legally bound to inform Suarez and accept Arsenal's offer but for Real we just have to tell him a bid was made, but that bid can be rejected?

{Ed002's Note - If there is a release clause and the terms of the release clause are met then it is up to the player.}

Is it possible to have different amounts for a release clause concerning different countries then?

In other words, could a release clause in the UK be a higher figure than say, Spain?

{Ed002's Note - You can ask what you want for a player across borders as the release clauses are only legally enforceable under the laws of the country under which they were written - see examples above.}

Ah right, that's cleared a lot of it up. Thanks.

Ed, if a release clause is met and the player wants to leave, is there any way of the club preventing the sale?

21 Dec 2013 18:16:36
So, it is highly possible that come Boxing Day we will battling with City for top spot. We must take what confidence we can from the Argentine Maestro's absense which will surely help our cause at least a little, even if it didn't help Fulham today!
City can be weak on the backfoot, we just need to dominate that midfield, just I say, but that's a hell of a battle against Yaya, Nasri, Silva and often Navas.

Well I hope its the strongest man city team they can put out, if u want to be the best u have to beat the best and mancity have to beat us, :)

Fulham scored two and they've not been scoring lots, I haven't seen the goals, so can't comment too much but it must be a boost for other teams to know Fulham were able to score and peg them back, if only for a short time.

21 Dec 2013 17:53:38
One of the Liverpool fans on talks***e has said that we rely on Suarez too much. Obviously he hasn't been watching the games because Sterling, Henderson and Coutinho are just time after time playing the perfect passes and yes Suarez has been magnificent with he way he's played but it's a team effort.

21 Dec 2013 17:18:34
Remember in the summer when we all wished we bought Christian Ericksson and he chose Tottenham because in his own words "to win the title" look a little out of context. I still wouldn't have him now.

Just a little thought who is the biggest flop, Carroll Torres or Fellani.

Torres by a mile he has done no then for chelsea he won trophies but did he help win then at all?

21 Dec 2013 16:58:52
If we do buy a midfielder in January they are going to have to be of world class quality to get into this team. Even Gerrard will have to work hard to re-gain a place.

If you could bring in one big player for up to £30m who would you buy? And who would you drop to make room for them?

Red Rum

Did you think Allen was good enough today then? Because I didn't

Chris, Allen's performance was steady, nothing more. What concerns me is his decision making or lack of it I should say. On a couple of occasions when we were attacking the Kop End, he received the ball, moved into a good position then stopped and broke down the fluidity of the attack. There were options available, he just struggled and made the wrong decisions.

I will give him the benefit of the doubt as he was very good for us before his shoulder problem. Let's see.

I think allen for some reason brings the best out of hendo and the three are a lot better then with gerrard in the three these last 2 games the trio have been excellent and can press as a unit a lot better witch is what allen was bought to do press and play I hate saying it but these to games show we are better with out stevie can't belive just said it wow

Paul pogba

Henderson just gets better and better. Stevie will come in for Allen. Although Allen is playing his best for LFC, it's not good enough. He presses well, but does not look comfortable in possession and gives the ball away with poor passes. Hopefully we sign another quality CMF to take the pressure off Hendo, Stevie and Lucas

Yeah he wasn't the best today in the final third, it just looked like he lacked a bit of conviction. But let's not forget his performances in the last three games. I think it was West Ham where he did some reverse spin move and played Glen Johnson in, then there was that one where everyone expected him to drill it across inside the box but it was a pin-point pass to Sterling and the last one which was to Kelly I think?

He has it in his locker but yeah solid in the middle two-thirds and let himself down in the final third.

I am going to stick my neck right out here, and say that Allen will sway more doubters in the upcoming 2 tough away fixtures. You will see his 'character' as Brendan would say, and shine against the 'big' players (both literally and metaphorically) of City and Chelsea. Allen is better than most fans think.

We really do need a good midfielder but the poster who suggested Pogba is away with the fairies. If only!

I think that is a tad bit harsh there Chris. He has some glaring errors, notably in the final third, but can you not see his work rate off the ball? As said above, the pressure applied with him, Lucas, and Hendo in the final third led to countless mistakes from Cardiff and created some decent chances.

I guess what I am saying is the boy (and I think we do have to remember he is still very young) has only just got back into the team, and has some absurdly large boots to fill :)

Allan was top class in the first half, defensively, and was a vital reason we had so many chances and looked as good as we did. His pressing, energy and use of the ball in midfield is quality unfortunately he does seem to be lacking confidence as soon as he gets within 30 yerds of the goal.

Mata hands down! If by some miracle (and I know the chance of us signing Mata are as likely as the chances I discover my super powers tomorrow and find out I'm from plant Krypton) but if BR can use his relationship with Mou coupled with the fact that we do seem to frequently do business with Chelsea (Torres, Johnson, Sturridge, Benayoun) I would go all out for him.

21 Dec 2013 16:46:35
I really started to think Fulham were going to get a point then! :( Oh well next week is such a big game.

21 Dec 2013 15:57:09
I didn't get to see the game today, but heard a bit of radio commentary.

Seems like Henderson and Sterling are continuing their good form, I'm well happy for the pair of them.

Good to see our Reds keeping up the pressure at the top of the table.

Chiefscout, did you get to find out if Salah was in attendance at the game?

Amazing what a bit of confidence has done for Hendo's game.

That and a totally superb piece of motivational man management from oul Whiskey-Nose Taggart himself. Proof that he can still cut it, even in retirement!

Coyler

21 Dec 2013 15:26:07
A good win, albeit with a below par 2nd half. Credit to Cardiff for giving it go. Suarez, Coutinho, Hendo and Sakho were outstanding, but Sterling was the standout player, my MotM. He ran the Cardiff defence ragged, topped with a well-taken goal. Special mention to the Bluebird fans who were united in voice in their support for Malky.

Yes agree fully, though sterling should have passed it to Suarez for his hat-trick rather than going for it himself, but then Suarez should have finished off the rebound.

Sterling should work out his finish though. In the last two matches he could have scored 2 hattricks. He clearly lacks finishing touch but his pace is a nightmare for defenders.

21 Dec 2013 14:52:52
I'm glad BR didn't experiment with Kelly in the Chelsea or city games. Once flanno came off we looked rough at the back, and Cardiff threatened a few times. Skrtel got to stop with this "defending" the way he is. all the other defenders keep an eye on the ball. I hope Kelly gets a loan or something, want the guy to do well. Also wish aspas would've gotten a run.

Our midfield looks good! Sakho isn't going to lose the ball off his left foot. He's a brute. Sterling was impressive again. Suarez was Suarez. Coutinho needs to develop a stronger boot.

Anyways, comfortable win! Bring on Chelsea! Top of the league boys!

It wasn't anything to do with the fullbacks it was Skrtel being a nob.

21 Dec 2013 14:25:22
Skirtl is becoming a liability in defence from set pieces! He does look however amazing on the ball and can see why he has kept agger out, but if he does not stop this persistant fouling, holding and shirt pulling in the box he will cost us big time, all the commentators are picking up on it, it's been the same for the last 4-5 games. It won't be long before he's a marked man by referees, Jose mourinho will certainly announce his concerns before we play them so the ref will be looking out for him!

I'd like to say what a good player sterling is looking, I for one never seen this coming from the lad, I was calling for his head every time I saw him play. But very well done to him, he really does look the part!

Great team performance once again, great 1 touch football to break Cardiff down, Liverpool of old would not of managed it, so things really looking good!

Happy Xmas to all you reds.

Have to agree about skrtel, especially with Michael Owen highlighting it every set piece, you can guarantee we will have a pen awarded against us in the next few games.the flanno change happened too early and I hope Brendan learns from this, but a great first half and dug in when needed in the second.hendo is relishing his central role at the minute, would take two draws at city and Chelsea, anything else a bonus.have a good Christmas everyone

I said this about skrtel a couple of weeks ago and no one batted an eyelid. He tries to do too much and makes stupid mistakes which end up putting us in difficult positions.

Sterling playing in Sturridges role, doesn't look to bad does he. Allen should have been rested with 10mins to go with Alberto coming on but maybe BR kept the extra sub for late injuries.

21 Dec 2013 13:46:51
How can we describe Elpistolero my goodness. Awesome, Magician, Outstanding, Phenomenon, Superb, Exceptional, Terrific, Wonderful, dazzling, Marvelous, Excellent, great, Incredible, Impressive, Astounding, Amazing etc etc.Is he the best player to have ever wear the Liverpool shirt?

Blood, if you cross out the word Liverpool and replaced it with Arsenal, that would be the best post I have ever read lol.

You've always got giroud dagenham! He's not far off lol

You've always got giroud dagenham! He's not far off lol

Square, don't get me wrong mate because I love Giroud and he suits the way Arsenal play, eg he holds up the ball very well for a big target man, which is great for our attack minded mids, and he links up with them very well, but his goals per games ratio needs improving.
In other words, he needs to be as clinical as LS lol

In other words, he is slightly better than Andy Carroll. :-)

21 Dec 2013 13:42:12
Gonna be hard for Stevie G to get back in the side with Hendersons form at the minute.Iv'e often criticized Hendersons guile on the ball but today his passing is superb.I guess we will get to see what he's really made of in the next two games.Hope he makes one for Allen second half!

Stevie still walks in to this team over allen for me allen has been class but ste offers more

21 dec 2013 15:14:43
what exactly does he offer danny? tbh its been a blessing in disguise stevie getting injured! when he was playing he doesn't hound the opposition on the ball like allen does, and does stupid crossfield balls into the corner they come off sometimes but not all he time.

but since he's been injured our passing has been fluid and slick especially on counter attacks "all in all i think we look better with out gerrard in" but my opinion by all means does not mean i'm anti-gerrard the guys a legend and just wish we had a 26 year gerrard in are current team lol

merry xmas my fellow redmen all the best for the new year.

achilles.

Danny that depends though steve doesn't press or track back. allen does those things and does the same job steve does by linking up play between midfield and attack and gets in the box more than any other CM we have. the only thing SG offers that allen doesn't is what henderson is showing right now in terms of switching play. But SG's dead ball brilliance is unrivalled in the league so far this season.

I agree Achilles. Tough to say because of how much Stevie means to the club. Our midfield is more fluent in transition and we can play a more pressing defense.

We didn't play any beckham balls yesterday, everything was neat and tidy. I love stevie but he does play a lot of cross field balls that
In the end we lose, and it makes it harder for the team to get it back. I like the team balance at the moment, especially with flanno at the back, he's boss

21 Dec 2013 13:36:36
Luis Suarez never ceases to impress and what a player Jordan Henderson is becoming!

Two very good buys by King Kenny!

Feel sorry for Malky. He would be a good fit at Spurs!

Red Rum

{Ed002's Note - Suarez was nothing to do with KD.}

Kenny Dalglish helped scout him and then was the manager that signed him
Surely that means he did have a lot to do with signing Suarez?

I know he was a Hodgson target, but came in under Kenny.

Ed just wondering, do you think that if Kenny said he didn't want Suarez, would we still have bought him? I know he was interim manager to start with but he must have had a big say in the transfers if he were to influence such a deal for Carroll. Or was Carroll nothing to do with Kenny?

Red Rum

{Ed002's Note - I have no idea.}

21 Dec 2013 13:34:46
Suarez you are the best in the world and I love you, Also BR best manager in EPL!!!!!

21 Dec 2013 11:37:36
Hi Eds. been browsing the Tinternet for ages looking for any info on Suarez and his new contract. any info if he has a release clause and what figure it may be?
Cheers

{Ed002's Note - Put aside any thoughts of such things.}

21 Dec 2013 10:57:21
Good to see big Razor Ruddock looking as trim as ever on Soccer Am! He could cover the whole back 4 on his own these days.

Lol, that cracked me up, love it.

21 Dec 2013 10:33:31
If Alonso did return, would he competing with Gerard or Lucas? We hendo's energy and coutinhio's magic? Not sure

Alonso won't be returning so no need to worry about it!

21 Dec 2013 10:26:51
Just been speaking to a customer at work regarding Luis Suarez's new deal. That there are a few marker points that need to be attachived as far as Luis is concerned. Firstly he wants champions league football followed by two or three world class signings. Eds as always can you shed any light on this for me.

{Ed002's Note - He is teasing you.}

He is teasing me? Surely Suarez will want some assurances Liverpool will be up there contending with the top teams

Hiya true,
easy sell for lfc imho, go to real, barca and be just another star. Stay at LFC be a legend, possibly the catalyst to 1st ever prem league title, adored by the fans etc. Here he is the main man, now has the contract to reflect it. If at the end of the day he doesn't achieve his ambitions with us, he can go with his head held high that he gave his best.
He will forever be loved. It's a win win for all parties. He gets his adulation either way, we either get the success we crave or a substantial financial reward to help the team move on. The most pleasing thing is the timing of everything. Say what you will, credit where it's due to all parties involved. It's certainly made my Xmas lol.

21 Dec 2013 08:27:13
Good morning eds,

Been a while since I've posted hope you're all well. Question for ed 001 please. There's been talk about Fernando and I know you like medel. I was just curious as to whether you believe Lucas to be a starting DM. From a statistical perspective no player made more interceptions, tackles and defensive key passes last year and he was in the top 5 Best performing defensive players in Europe. Yet people still seen to want to replace him. What's your assessment of him?

Thanks

Nevada

{Ed001's Note - personally I think he would be even better given more freedom to move forward. His attitude is exemplary, it would be madness to let him go, imo. Fernando, or a n other, should be brought in to play alongside him, for me, in the main, not to replace him. Though it would be good to have the option to rest him or to alter the system occasionally. }

21 Dec 2013 09:15:05
Eds, merry xmas to you all. Just to recap, we are interested in Hughes and Salah for January. Off the top of your heads are there any other realistic targets? Thanks

{Ed002's Note - RTP.}

21 Dec 2013 08:43:19
We win today we go top. We have secured the worlds current best player on a long term contract paying him the kind of money he deserves in this modern day. We are playing the best football I have seen for years with goals galore. We have a crop of youngsters getting better and better. Backing from The owners who actually do know what they are doing and finally a young manager who isn't afraid to make tough decisions, mix up formations, great man management skills and tactically very astute. Reasons to be cheerful this xmas.

21 Dec 2013 01:46:58
Ed, when is Sturridge expected back? Searched it but couldn't find a recent post.
Cheers

{Ed001's Note - expected back towards the end of January.}

Sturridge has one hell of a fight getting back into the first team, especially if Salah joins. Looks a special player to me.

21 Dec 2013 01:04:30
Guess it was the crossed b****cks that did it.Suarez I mean!

20 Dec 2013 22:18:53
Ed001 quick question for you remember at the start of the season we look wrecked in the 2nd half of the matches just wondering if you heard anything around to why that was thank god its behind us

{Ed001's Note - I haven't heard anything about it, but it does seem to be a combination of fsctors. Firstly some players were not fully up to fitness, for varying reasons, at the beginning of the season. We were playing a much higher pressing game, which is hard work when you lose the ball. Southampton now do two full training sessions a day, both extremely physically taxing, to cope with the high press system they use. Also, when results are going well, confidence is flowing, you just don't feel tired as you are mentally flying through games.}