Liverpool Banter Archive May 21 2016

21 May 2016 23:03:07
Probably the biggest surprise this summer will be jordan henderson being sold. Would rather keep milner than him any day. Milner is up there with most assists this year in the PL, would def be worth keepin in the squad. Would like to hear from the Eds if any of ye have been monitoring grujic and do u expect him to fit into the first team. I remember reading that he would only come if he wasnt going to be loaned back out.

21 May 2016 23:24:04
Why would you keep Milner over Hendo? Milner can't actually play the central midfield role, something we seen in the final. It shouldn't be a choice of one or the other and while Milner improved towards the end of the season I think his all round game, especially his first touch, leave a lot to be desired. He should be a wide option at most but his future should definitely not affect Hendo's.

21 May 2016 23:31:48
It would be a surprise but not a total shock.
Injuries may be an issue
Our central midfield is weak.

22 May 2016 00:30:14
I think all depends on how bad Klopp feels after the lost Final to Sevilla. I don't believe the calm, studied responses he has been giving to the Press for one minute. He must be seething with anger after that lost opportunity. Any desire for some continuity with the same players in the midfield must have died a quick death that night. Ed001 has mentioned a "clearout" in the midfield, and Klopp has been looking mostly at midfielders (according to the unreliable Press) . So aside from Allen and Lucas, I wouldn't be surprised if Lallana, Milner or Henderson were moved on. But I would hope that Henderson would be the last to go, and only if absolutely necessary. I don't know how many of you would agree with me, but there is the feeling that this team has gone as far as it can go. It needs some shaking up at the core, to establish a new stronger foundation.

22 May 2016 00:53:57
In a way, I agreed with you ra. But I strongly feel that moving Henderson on are not the answer. Maybe it's just me, but there's something about him that's worth keeping.

22 May 2016 01:29:06
A year of transition then, Ra?

22 May 2016 01:54:26
Milner is a wide player (despite his ambitions otherwise) and Hendo is a all-round midfielder. I don't see it as an either or, and I'm pretty sure Hendo won't be leaving unless there's a real shock target out there.

If we bring in a top player to play midfield, I expect the candidate to leave would be Allen, Markovic, Ibe, Llalana, Milner or Lucas and probably in that order but depending on whether we have gone for a more defensive type (Dahoud), all rounder (Zielinski) or attacking midfielder (Gotze) .

22 May 2016 04:03:16
Have to agree with you Haizan. Henderson is the captain of the club, and he gives his all for the club, works hard and looks to improve. He has fought hard to show his worth and we missed him. A good role model for players coming through.

I also like Milner as a professional but will support whatever Klopp decides as he can be monumental but has shown inconsistency with poor performances outstripping the positives.

Hopefully there is a reduction in the bloat and we can get a solid squad and get some consistency. Don't want s lot of incomings.

22 May 2016 03:03:37
Would anyone else feel though that too much of a shake up or clear out and new players coming in could see a repeat of the team not being able gel together as was seen when Rodgers bought many players after the season we finished 2nd, we bought many players and that season there was no relationship with the players, no team spirit etc, compared to the season when Suarez was there. We brought in 8 players that year and sold 8 players and left massive issues and gaps in the squad. Is ofcourse Klopps prerogative, He will know where we are weak and where we need strengthen, for me is hard know who will stay and who will go, I would be reluctant sell Henderson personally, i think he does add allot but is more keeping the team ticking over, he does stuff that you wouldn't normally notice when he plays but when he is injured his absence is felt for me, had he been fit in the Final, I feel the result wouldn't be how it was. Just my personal opinion, but he alone may not have been able stop the collapse we saw in the 2nd half, was the team who collapsed not just a few players. No matter what, klopp has some work to do in the summer. I can't wait to see what he does with a pre season.

{Ed001's Note - I think the same regards too many signings, you should aim to make just a couple of the highest quality signings. The worry is when the club's forward planning has been so poor it needs more.}

22 May 2016 03:11:16
Really. Why not keep both. They're very different players.

22 May 2016 05:32:44
I will release Hendeson on one condition and one condition only- when Sunderland comes calling. Being captain of sunderland is Henderson's destiny and every football fan with heart of gold should help him gis destiny.

22 May 2016 08:26:49
Ed001; I agree with you but given the lack of quality do you think we will make more signings - I can see us having 6 or 7 incomings (the two already agreed + GK, CB, LB, AM/ Winger)?

{Ed001's Note - possibly yes, though it is not ideal. In fact I would say probably, rather than possibly.}

22 May 2016 09:28:56
hendo has been carrying an injury most of the season and Milner has a lot of experience, i would keep both because when hendo is fit for a whole season he will shine and when we got milner loads on here said he was getting paid too much and that we should not sign him, but after a season milner has shown how experience can work wonders for you, hendo will get better with more experience and he needs to stay injury free, with them 2 we have both youth and experience so why not keep both of them because next season they will have a big say in where we finish.

{Ed001's Note - the only thing Milner has shown is that he is hopeless in central midfield and extremely overpaid and average on the wing. Experience work wonders? His experience as captain has led us to flop massively. He needs to go.}

22 May 2016 16:22:59
Ed do you think Klopp would be willing to let Milner leave as he has used him so often this season? Or even if there would be any takers?

{Ed002's Note - I am not aware of any intention to sell Milner.}

21 May 2016 23:51:29
And last season when hendo was mainly injury free in an underperforming and average squad was our best creator and midfield "general". I don't understand why some are always on his back. Massively underrated in my opinion, and regardless of whether you observe his contributions or not on the pitch, it's proven statistically for the last 3 seasons we win more games when he's playing than not, by quite a dramatic margin as well.

These stats over 1 season maybe could be seen as dubious, but over three I don't think can be argued with. I'm not suggesting he is of the quality required to win the league or anything, but where we are as a club currently I think we are fortunate to have a player like him.

21 May 2016 21:36:14
Pep at city, mourinho at united, arsenal will improve, Chelsea will improve.
Klopp has to correct positions this summer and bring in the right players. Every weakness in the first team has to be addressed. We need our defence and keeper sorted, added quailty in midfield and more goals up front. Klopp certainly has a challenge.

21 May 2016 21:45:57
I can't see us getting top 4 next year let alone title talk.

Not because of klopp but I don't believe we will sign either the right players or players that are good enough for the top.

Hope I'm wrong.

21 May 2016 22:00:50
Your dead right!

6-7th at best
You forgot Spurs too
Lfc compete with Southampton West Ham.

21 May 2016 22:03:01
Agree ja Kurtz, it's not looking good tbh.

21 May 2016 22:09:25
Great to see you writing off the players even before next season begins, we will be very competitive next season.

21 May 2016 22:17:39
Ja Kurtz, lobster and Kman = doubters.

We will definitely get top 3 next season AND definitely win something. 😎.

21 May 2016 22:52:31
Writing off players? I don't seem to recall stating certain players.
You want to remain with the same squad and first team that has won nothing this season and finished were we did? Every other team strong at the top and the money spenders with mourinho and pep in charge? what was the point to your comment? our first team isn't good enough to challenge for fourth.

21 May 2016 22:59:09
So many more teams can either spend more or have better scouting networks than us. I fear we are falling.

21 May 2016 23:26:14
Big Al we have some very very good players, just lacked a bit of consistency, but we have a manager who is up there with the best in the world and will improve the team no end.

22 May 2016 00:16:21
Mighty reds you're living in lala land. our midfield is weak, henderson is a real concern with his injury and form and our back line is a mess. Clyne and moreno Can't defend, mignolet is a disaster and our attack is still dry. We need a few players in.

22 May 2016 02:23:32
On the positive side

Sturridge is one of the best strikers in the league with Origi a capable alternative never mind Ings

At no. 10 Firmino has been devastating at times and one of the most in form players second half of the season. I think he'll really kick on in his second season

Coutinho has been dangerous from the left, he just needs consistency but clearly one of he better attacking midfielders in the league

Milner has been excellent when played at right midfield or right wing, with a number of key assists. So long as he doesn't play centre midfield he's a big player. Llalana has flattered to deceive a bit but we can expect competition to join in this space and Ojo and Markovic to add some pace and threat in attack

Hendo and Can should be back stronger than ever next season, both are top top midfielders and if hit form will be as good as any other partnership out there IMO. I think Grujic and Stewart will be very capable deputies with Lucas also able to cover for a more defensive setup.

Clyne is solid, Flanno should be fully recovered at RB

Lovren has been immense last half of the season and I have high hopes for Matip who is tall, athletic, a true ball player and scores goals from set pieces - one of the better players of the Bundesliga. Toure has been strong and hopefully Sakho recovers from his nightmare stronger than ever

Major problems obviously lie at LB and Keeper but both are due to be recruited for. We then still have a potential major signing or two to come. Hopefully Karius and Hector will add some German steel to the Defence.

I see absolutely zero reason why with one game a week we can't go on to do something special next year. Yes our points total sucked this year but we got to two cup finals and most of he games we lost after Feb had obvious weaknesses in the side due to rotation that we simply won't have to worry about next season.

Chin up lads, I'm putting £50 on Liverpool to win it. Up the Reds!

22 May 2016 02:34:41
Seriously? We played a season moslty w/ o sturridge. Ings played how much? Would not a better keeper have gotten us a good 9 points? WI'll klopp not adress our weak links? Will guys like can and Firmino not improve? Henderson will be back? Not saying it will be easy but with no euro ball we got a damn good chance of finishing top four! Did klopp not have a good record against the big clubs? Has our issue not been consistency against mid and lower table teams? You don't think that will improve? Cheer up my friends. Ynwa.

22 May 2016 04:06:05
I think you summed up the concerns perfectly big al in the original post. We keep adding squad players with potential hoping it will be realized overnight where the competitors are improving their first team. We need to get players that will add to the starting 11.

22 May 2016 04:17:18
Ja Kurtz., not one point you made is based on any fact at all. At least attempt to back up the drivel with some reasoning.

22 May 2016 03:14:23
You mean the top, expensive, international players like Fuchs, huth, mahrez and kante?

22 May 2016 07:49:07
Swish, it's hard to talk about next season with facts mate. Or are you mystic meg?

21 May 2016 20:56:58
Ed2 can I ask what you think about growing the football league and more professional clubs proposal?

{Ed002's Note - Being professional or not is not really the issue, sustainability is. There will over the next 10 years or so be significant changes as I have explained.}

21 May 2016 20:02:50
I see we're being linked with Dahoud. Do any of the eds know if we will only go for him if we do not sort out a deal for Zeilinski? Or is he seen as a another option on par with Zeilinski?

Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - Mo Dahoud was subject of an approach by Juventus to Borussia Mönchengladbach in November 2015 where they were rebuffed in respect of a January transfer. Manchester City also has a declared interest in the player and may yet look for an agreement over a summer move - the player has also been watched by Leicester, Kasımpasa, Norwich and Shakhtar Donetsk this season. There are no offers on the table for him at all right now but I suspect one will arrive from Juventus soon.}

21 May 2016 16:30:20
So, the clear out has begun. With Rossiter gone, trickett smith and jerome Sinclair have now departed. There will be a lot more before the start of next season. Looks like the management team have had a good look at the staff and decided who is going and who we want. Lowering the playing staff and wages will be a priority. We have far too many players and not enough quality. Interesting summer me thinks and not before time.

21 May 2016 17:25:39
Do not forget Enrqique. He is gone too. Teixeira not going to get his contract renewed either.

21 May 2016 15:15:58
Soon as Klopp came in I was wishing the season away for next season to start.
Then the excitement of the Europa kicked in and we all enjoyed the cup runs.
Takes nothing away from the fact we need this window. Table doesn't lie and we finished closer to 10th than 4th.
The Squad is very very average. Anfield carried us in Europe again I said this last week before the final.
No Europe will benefit our push for the proper European places and were we should be.
All in all. Klopps done amazing with these lot. He's not even began to build a team yet.
2 finals is a good half season. Only a few mistakes thus far like Villareal away. Very happy with our manager, Bring on new Liverpool.

21 May 2016 17:06:01
We were 9 points off 9th and 6 points off 4th. Seems we were closer to 4th to me. If we'd prioritised the league ahead of Europa league I think we'd have finished 4th.
Definitely disagree with the "very, very average" statement. We need improvement in a couple of areas, I think every club in the league probably needs that, but the overall talent in the squad is very good imo. With a settled Firmino, a fit Sturridge and a new keeper and left back who knows what could happen.
Hopefully Hendo will have an injury free season, people still sem to doubt his ability yet we're a far better team with him than without!

21 May 2016 14:32:18
Hi Ed1,

Would you mind giving your opinion on whether you think Brannagan has a chance at breaking into the first team?

thanks.

{Ed001's Note - he is already on the verge of doing so. Yes I think he has every chance, especially with his delivery from set pieces.}

21 May 2016 23:07:50
Thanks Ed.

I've always liked what I've seen of him. Would you prefer to see him be backup to Coutinho/ Firmino rather than us spend money on another CAM like Zielinski/ Götze?

{Ed001's Note - yes, personally I would. I would rather we concentrated on the two priority positions and got the very best player we can for both goalkeeper and left back.}

22 May 2016 09:47:24
I suppose the issue is that Klopp wants to stamp his mark on the squad and get his own players in. He must be able to see what we see (the likes of Lallana, Allen and Milner not being good enough) .

21 May 2016 08:57:30
This could be a good debate to begin as well open up different possibilities in the midfield

1. Can - Hendo midfield

Pros : You will then have 4 attackers ahead
Cons : both indiacipljned misfileders, Neither are preticry good at breaking up an attack or tackling. This will leave space behind them for the opposition to counter. We will concede goals and loose a good amount of possession in the midfield.
Moreover this also means Klopp will shorn of them to more defensive role which will take away their best attributes from them.

2. Can - Hendo - New CDM
Pros : Stability, Better control on the game and better control on the middle of the park. We wouldn't concede as thick and fast. Both Hendo and Can could play their natural game. Defense would look a lot more better.
Cons : Sacrifice an attacker for a midfielder. Scoring goals would be an issue unless Can and Henderson steps up.

3. Can / Henderson - CDM
Pros : Ideal scenario. Perfect balance between attack and defense.

Cons : One of Can and Henderson should be on the bench

21 May 2016 12:58:41
I will go for 3rd bcos the transition play from def to attack is slow so hopefully zielinski can up that tempo.

21 May 2016 13:00:57
Henderson is not undisciplined lol. He is very positionally good and manages to remain so whilst talking Can through the game at the same time.

Nonsense post, sorry buddy. Playing a third midfielder would give us more stability, but it doesn't need to be a holding player. Putting a proper, confident attacking midfielder in between Can-Hendo and the front 3 is a much bigger issue. Our link between midfield and attack is terrible because Milner and Lallana aren't good enough, Coutinho is inconsistent, and Firmino goes too far forward and plays more like a second striker. Hence the interest in Zielinski, Gotze and Grujic. They are all players who can transition midfield to attack with just one piece of skill or vision to see a difficult pass.

If we need to play a third deep midfielder against strong opposition we have Lucas and Stewart who are going nowhere next season.

21 May 2016 13:22:57
I feel whenever we played 442 diamond ee did well. So a proper DM with 2 box to box on either side then coutinuo at the tip with 2 striker.
The issue is klopp too is slighty one dimensional. You cannot strat the finals with 2 mid where your opponent has almost 3 sitting deep and a playmaker. I totally agree with Ed002 Klopp haa to change is style slightly and don't be that predictable. different games need different styles. Start building the team from the back attack wise we are good. Defence is shit.

21 May 2016 13:25:18
Can and Hendo started to create a good partnership which was broken up by Injuries. One was going the other would fill the hole. It did take them time to get it right, but before Hendersons injury at Dortmund away they had got the understanding. I would love our Manager to continue the partnership as it will only get better.

21 May 2016 13:39:20
People are talking about Grujic being a holding player but I have been told he's more of a playmaker who is most effective in front of a midfield 2.He has openly said the part of his game that needs the most work is the defensive side. I think MK has it spot on regarding an AM in front of a Can and Hendo 2. A DM we should only need when backs against the wall Stewart off the bench will do.

21 May 2016 13:48:53
I think Can/ Hendo at base of a 4-2-3-1 is good enough for most matches. They have started to form a good partnership, especially for games where we we can expect at least even battle in midfield (ie. against Barcelona or RM we may want a bit more insurance) . If we really want to go with a very defensive setup then agree a three man midfield is an option and sitting deep could be anyone from Lucas, Stewart or even Can or Grujic once they've matured into the role a bit more. One of the reasons I like the idea of Hector is he can also play there and I believe Matip can too.

21 May 2016 13:51:26
Harry, I love this post, the idea behind it is great but if you're trying to give three possible options to debate you've got to be fair to all three, you can't just tailor it to what you think is right. Saying the only positive of option 1 is 'You will then have 4 attackers ahead' and then straight up calling option 3 the 'Ideal scenario' doesn't really suggest you think this is actually a debate.

For what it's worth I want Hendo and Can to be a midfield pair next season, it's not a pair that's had a chance to show how good it can be yet due to to Hendo's disrupted season but I think it has the potential to be great.

21 May 2016 14:03:13
You are correct MrNiceGuy. The myth of Grujic being a holding player started due to him being called the next Matic. His similarities to Matic begin and end with them both being tall Serbian midfielders though.

Grujic is an attacking midfielder capable of spectacular goals who can play in midfield if required, but is severely lacking defensively. He is a very powerful runner, a great long distance shooter and has sublime vision for a 20 year old. He can also perform quite well out wide. He is more like a young Gerrard than a young Matic though.

I know this not from watching him extensively (which I obviously haven't done - it's the Serbian league) but from just doing a little bit of research. Amazes me how few people on this site know how to use search engines.

21 May 2016 13:47:56
Relax Adam this is just an open discussion and I am not the one who calls the team.
Regarding Hendo, He is a perfect B2B player and that's it. He has no discipline, you could ask the player himself.

21 May 2016 14:26:26
Muscat

No worries man, you could add any additional points relevant to the OP.

21 May 2016 14:41:27
Can is simple not game intelligent enough for my liking at the minute. He makes poor choices (be they were to position himself, who to pass too, type of pass, etc) and these are shown up when there isn't a good midfielder i. e. Henderson, Lucas next to him.

Can needs to improve considerably if he wants to be considered a first team starter. He might just about get into the first team now but remove injuries and add new (hopefully better) additions to the squad and he has much to do.

21 May 2016 14:44:15
There is no point debating with you if you genuinely believe Henderson has no discipline as you clearly don't have a clue. He has his weaknesses:
- can't run with the ball
- finishing is erratic at times
- set piece delivery is average

However, to call him out for a lack discipline is just total rubbish mate.

21 May 2016 16:34:43
How long have we been using 'indiacipljned misfileders'? Is it a Dutch tactic?

21 May 2016 15:03:22
Crazy horse if we were 3-0+ up at half time which put it like this it wouldn't be analysed with people going oh my God how did that happen it would largely have been received as justified.
While I respect ed002s opinion you have to he's an intelligent man and deserves that respect but I think he's pigeon holed klopp in the last few weeks personally saying he only wants runners and needs to adapt tactically. Klopp does not play the same as when at Dortmund at all. Nor did he play the same way throughout his time at Dortmund the attack especially was tinkered with as it went from almost straight counterattacking football to the more transition based football he is probably more known for if you will.
It is clear klopp has a way he thinks the game should be played, all managers do I think but there are still differences in play you can't clone players and mould them into the same 11 all the time it's impossible.

As for the original debate I think can and Henderson as a base is perfectly fine. I too personally think we would be more solid if you stick kante in beside either of those two but I think if can and Henderson are playing at their peak and stay fit I think they could be one of the best midfields in the league. They are both mobile enough and good enough in the tackle that they can make up for a lack of positional knowledge which I feel they suffer with at the moment but again they'll only learn that and improve that from playing.

{Ed002's Note - When did I say "he only wants runners"? You might want to go back and read the posts before apologising.}

21 May 2016 10:08:00
Question for the Eds and fellow posters. Has Klopp changed his philosophy (over the season) and decided to play without a "holding midfielder"? I clearly remember him praising Lucas Leiva in November and being quoted as saying that Lucas had "one of the most important positions on the field". But since January, Lucas has been played mostly in the centre back position. And all of the midfielders we are being linked for transfer in the summer (Gotze, Zielinski, Dahoud) are either attacking or box-to-box types. Maybe Grujic is the most defensive minded of the incomings, but he's not guaranteed starting material yet (I don't think) . Has Klopp decided Stewart and Chirivella are enough? Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but we sorely missed Lucas against Sevilla. Someone to cut off the penetration through the center of midfield. Milner should have been on the wing and Lallana brought in later.

I agree with Klopp that Lucas's position is one of the most important on the field. And, over here, "Harry" (Kovacic) has been harping on it to nauseating effect, but painfully, he's probably right too. We need an established holding midfielder as a necessary alternative to use against certain teams and on certain games. I think there are still some question marks over Stewart and Chirivella, and it's just not enough. Year 1 of a 3 year contract is over and Mr. Klopp has to start delivering by ensuring every position is filled in the best manner possible. What do you think?

{Ed001's Note - he has always changed his style of play as teams evolve and to face certain teams.}

21 May 2016 10:28:22
We only have the EPL and the Cups next season. Can, Hendo, Stewart, Grujic, Chirivella and possibly Zielinski. Allen and Lucas still 50/ 50 so we are overstocked and highly doubt we will see another CM being added even if Allen and Lucas are moved on.

21 May 2016 10:34:30
Thanks Ed001. Do you agree we should be playing without a holding midfielder? (just wondering) .

{Ed001's Note - really depends on the players we have in the side. If Hendo plays, then we are fine, if Milner is in the middle or Allen, then we need cover.}

21 May 2016 11:31:20
Do you think Grujic is the cover for Henderson, Ed001?

{Ed001's Note - I think he is another option.}

21 May 2016 13:05:43
I agree with Ed that we don't need an out and out DM. out of all our Midfielders Lucas as the worst loss to games ratio this season. This is a not a slant on Lucas just the fact that having our best dm on the pitch doesn't stop us getting beat. Henderson with Can will be the way forward if they stay fit.

21 May 2016 10:51:35
Maybe you could let a few other eds know 001 and they'll stop spouting the nonsense he's been found out etc etc because the posters seem to believe it even though they can see otherwise.

{Ed001's Note - the other eds have a right to their opinion, as much as it is not the same as mine, they have every right to share it.}

21 May 2016 10:58:24
Do you think if Hendo and can stay fit for whole season then that is enough to take us to top of league ed? I think when I'm being critical of our midfield I'm forgetting how much Hendo has been out and what a difference he makes.

{Ed001's Note - Hendo would have made a huge difference to the season, imo. Top four became out of reach due to his injury.}

21 May 2016 09:53:13
Hi EDs

Off all the academy prospects we currently have, how many do you think are good enough to provide proper cover for the 1st teams.

And who would you rate as one to watch.

Great site. Very insightful. Learnt a lot about the background workings of clubs and transfers.

Thanks EDs.

{Ed001's Note - cover? All of them are good enough to cover for a game or two, it is just if we have to field a team of academy players it becomes a problem. If you put in one, or two, when injury hit, the experienced players should be able to guide them through. Usually they are so buzzing on adrenalin they have a stormer.

For me, I personally really like Chirivella.}

21 May 2016 10:49:46
Chirivella has impressed me so far. I'd like to see Cam Brannagan get a few more games to as he has slotted in very nicely. Also he can deliver a great dead ball compared to the rest of our players.

21 May 2016 13:14:26
Sheyi Ojo - he's a class player.

21 May 2016 15:07:10
With Ron he really looks to have that something special. While I love brannagan with his delivery and the way he plays I see him struggling to get as many chances simply because in most games we rely on players playing in his position ie coutinho or firmino or lalanna to really dictate our attacking play which is a lot of pressure on a player and could leave him open to criticism.

21 May 2016 09:22:12
Eds do you no if Goetze really wanted CL football and this might be an issue signing him or has he not said anything on it?

{Ed001's Note - not a clue sorry, I have never asked him.}

21 May 2016 00:20:40
Going to close the fundraiser now guys. Just want to say a massive thank you too whom donated or gave their best wishes to 001.
He has used to money to finish the rent payment and pay back what he borrowed originally from his family.
Ynwa applies to everyone.

21 May 2016 01:08:23
What was the final total then Benny?

{Ed091's Note - £1500 i believe. amazing.

21 May 2016 08:32:35
Just a reminder that people need to click on a couple of the ads every time we visit this site.
It costs us almost nothing but it will earn the site a little bit of much-needed revenue. Think of it as a tiny bit of payback in return for all the time and effort that goes into running the site, and for the fantastic information we get here.
Come on lads, do your bit to keep this site going.

{Ed001's Note - no need to do that mate, if it happens too much they will stop allowing us to have ads. They see that as a form of fraud, people clicking for the sake of it.}