Liverpool Banter Archive October 22 2014

22 Oct 2014 22:32:22
dont want to sound negative but i think BR is destroying players. lambert should start ahead balo and what is wrong with borini? Defence? wow don't even ask. i would trust Br with single penny in transfer window or maybe he won't be there anymore.

He will go only after Tony Pulis and all the other decent available managers will find a job elsewhere so we end up with a second rate young manager who had a half decent season somewhere. Re Mario - I know I may get abuse for it, but I have to admit I kind of feel for the guy. He looks like a lost boy wondering near the D and has no clue what to do and how to score goals. Unfortunately none of our players and BR can help. By the way his goal against England in the WC was very similar to the first Benzema goal today and the same quality.

Not having a go at Mario but he can't play as a lone striker. Either pair him with borini or don't start him. When Sturridge Is there he will be better

End of the day Mario has moved every other year and been managed by some of the best managers in football and they couldn't get the best out of him. BR or the board took a gamble on Mario. it hasn't paid off. Time to Sell him and move on

23 Oct 2014 00:05:19
@ Taas - That's not an excuse for being bone idle lazy. Tonight was probably his best game for us, and he still didn't do nearly enough in terms of running and movement.

You're suggesting that we play Borini (who by the way is not very good) effectively to do Balotelli's running for him until Sturridge comes back. If that's the case, then maybe Balotelli isn't worth having in the team?

He doesn't need a strike partner. He needs to pull his finger out.

Certainly couldn't be much worse, Taas.

657 total minutes played, 21 shots outside of the box, 16 shots in the penalty area, 4 shots in the 6 yard box, 1 goal.

Taken the 3rd most shots in the PL, behind Aguero and Pelle, 0 league goals.

Time to sell him? he's had about 9 games, half of which he wasn't fit in. he's a very good player but has only shown small glimpses of it. its obvious his confidence was down and I think he look better when he came on as a sub a couple of weeks ago. either play 2 upfront or drop him for Lambert and take the pressure off him a while whislt he works on his sharpness. i'm convinced he will start scoring once he gets confidence back. I remember when henry went to arsenal. he looked awful for his first dozen games. couple of goals and the rest was history. if anyone should be blamed for tonight then look to Rodgers but in all fairness we were playing arguably the best team in the world, would many teams have got positive result?

In the first minute he should have played Sterling in.
He chose the greedy option.
He is not a team player.
Simple as that.
I understand why we went for him but like daniellambretta74 said it has not worked out so far.

Mario plays like Andy Carrol, he waits on the edge of the area for the ball with back to goal, he doesn't chase down defenders, he is slow to track back and he is selfish taking on players n losing the ball. In addition his shooting accuracy is awful (so far) and his availability and positioning to link up with other players and find space is poor. None of that is down to fitness as suggested by earlier poster that is his style of play and has been at all clubs. I think it's not going to work out people

22 Oct 2014 22:18:59
Why am I not as annoyed and upset tonite as I usually am after a defeat? Is it because I had no belief that we would get a result tonite?
We were really outclassed tonite. What a great 1st goal that was! Credit to them.
What does annoy me is this inability to realise we cannot defend set pieces? Simple long balls?
BR, I'm sick of seeing this, what are you doing about it? It's not just this season, we saw it last season too.
Analytically, I think we saw why Sterling shouldn't play up top. It's may force the opposition to sit a little deeper, but getting the ball with a CB stuck up your jacksy is negating his real strength of picking up the ball and running at people. But how good would he be in that Madrid team? He really is going to be some player.
If Moreno can improve his defending we could have a real player there.
Is anyone else worried that E.Can runs like a cross between Igor Biscan and Carra?! Other than that, I do like his athleticism and eagerness to receive the ball. At one point he ran up to SG on the halfway line and tried to take the ball off him. Rightly he was dismissed, but its a good sign. His pace bursting forward is almost Toure like(yaya of course)! But playing him with Henderson, I can see a lack of creativity that would concern me.
Other positives, Coutinho looked much sharper, Gerrard did ok, Hendo & Allen worked hard.
Negatives, GJ needs a new challenge, he no longer makes up for his poor defensive ability with his attacking prowess! Migs just makes me and no doubt his defenders nervous, Ballo actually appears to be letting the criticism affect him! But his demeanour isn't liverpool.
I'm really concerned about Markovic? He really seems out of his depth. He just doesn't even show a glimpse of any kind of ability? let's hope he does with further chances!

22 Oct 2014 21:50:54
I think we have a great group of players both at the club and on loan but I think the coaching last season and now continuing into this season has been very poor.
I believe we will challenge this season with the proper Goal keeping coaching, defensive coaching and striker coaching.
Either Brendan Rogers steps up in the next week or two and sorts this out and public ally too to show he owns the problem or Brenda Rogers in my opinion should be sacked to allow a manager get out of these players what I believe and most fans know is there .

Lifelong fan but there comes a time when a coach's method aren't working and he refuses to change to cater for that, when that happens the team moves backwards and its time for a club to cut its loses. This is that time. Buck must go. am not looking forward to our games no more. am dreading them

22 Oct 2014 21:19:24
Need top, top striker to solve this mess. Balotelli doesn't suit our systeam, he completely slows our game & his always on the wings or out of the box. Need some serious strike power upfront

I think we need a keeper as well, many things wrong at the moment, but most of it is down to the manager, if I was lambert if be asking to go out on loan, as long as we keep playing stevie back there we simply haven't enough going forward, can't really blame it on balotelli, Rogers is putting him into a system which will never suit him, we then bring lallana on and markovic, but there's no one in middle to cross it to.rogers will get himself the sack soon with his pigheadedness

22 Oct 2014 21:37:05
So when Balotelli came off why did we still struggle to do anything relevant? Legends were made alright.

Because as I said, with Gerrard back there in effectively a back five we don't have enough options going forward, need to play 442 or 352, can would have been better having a spell with hendo and Gerrard going off, the game was gone by then

Remember, Sturridge back fixes everything - including the inability to defend

22 Oct 2014 22:12:41
It was always going to be a hard game against Madrid, they are a different class altogether, look what happened to Roma last night, at least we kept it respectable. I am not defending anyone, I am more concerned with the game on Saturday

Rob, very sensible reply, good group of players here and they are better than this year's results, the right coaching will bring the best out of these guys and we will challenge again

22 Oct 2014 22:23:32
Mate open your eyes we struggled because we lack prolific striker, there was a reason super mario was taken off at half time in favour of Lallana who is not even a striker lol

Balotelli is terrible . No amount of games or sturridge will improve his laziness and inability to pass the ball . Everyone criticising Rodgers wake up . he's a very good manager who needs a bit of guidance . Since when have we become a club that calls for a managers head a quarter of the way into a season .

TJ are you for real?

22 Oct 2014 23:25:58
I understand you guys are looking for a scapegoat to blame. But remember we weren't playing that well with sturridge fit. He's not going to be the answer.

Mario balotelli is far from a terrible player. You don't score the amount of goals he has scored by being a terrible player.

The amount of goals he has scored?

He had 14 all season for Milan last year (the most he's ever scored in a season anywhere he's ever been) and 7 of those were penalties and free kicks.

In two and half years at City, he scored 30 in all competitions and 8 of those were penalties (22 open play goals in two and a half years, or roughly 8-9 per season).

You make it sound like he's prolific or something when he's really not.

23 Oct 2014 02:14:17
30 in like 60 or so games at Milan. The man city tally really isn't that bad considering a lot of his appearances were substitute appearances and he was still quite young. You guys keep blaming mario but eventually you'll not have him to blame and then who? the fact remains when mario came off we didn't score a goal against a team who looked to be doing a training exercise against us.

Can't speak for others, but I don 'to blame Mario- he is who he is.

I do blame our transfer committee for only being able to come up with a 'calculated gamble' as the best they could do to replace Suarez when anyone who has ever watched Mario play should be able to tell he simply isn't anywhere near what we needed.

Also, by my count, while at Milan he scored 28 goals for Milan between Series A and CL games. Of those:

10 were penalties
5 were from free kicks

Leaving 13 goals from open play in 1.5 seasons (4039 minutes), or one every 310 minutes or so.

For the fun of it, Sterling played nearly 4,000 minutes as well over the seasons 12/13 and 13/14 and had 11 goals, all from open play. And he's 17/18 years old and not a striker.

22 Oct 2014 21:03:24
Thank God they have Barcelona at the weekend as they've turned it into a training session now

Second half was massively boring, like watching an early pre-season friendly. Real hardly bothered to defend and still easily deflected every attack we made, sadly.

22 Oct 2014 21:01:19
Rogers will need all his NPL training to put a positive spin on this

No positives from this 1 lad , it's seems some of the players (baloteli) this is everyone's fault but mine attitude, gives sterling a bollockin for his piss poor ball and then asks benzema for his shirt at half time !! Last thing he should be thinking about, I d never give the ****er a red shirt again, 16 mil for him and 6 for lambert, 22 mil would have went a long way to buying a good no 9

22 Oct 2014 20:36:08
Lets try and get a goal and build from there second half. Rodgers future looking bleek.

And his future should be bleak, his players his tactics his coaching.
These players are better than this year's performances they just need new coaching

Mcgov
Toomany things on Rodgers end to state but im.hoping he isn't given a penny to spend in January. We have a quailty squad. We need a top GK which should come from sales. The defense needs a Steve clarke type to.come in and.Flanagan and sakho in. There is a huge potential in our team but Rodgers is handling it all wrongg

Big Al I really agree, this is a very good group of players internationals throughout and they are much much better than this season's showings, it is coaching and tactics

22 Oct 2014 19:36:33
It feels great being a Liverpool supporter on a night like this and it is all thanks to BR and the boys. What a privilege.

Red Rum

Dreading this site after the game.

Red Rum

22 Oct 2014 22:14:14
all thanks to BR and the boys
==================
For being in the champions league , I think it should be thanks to the un-mentionable

22 Oct 2014 19:17:22
Call it blind faith, call it plain old stupidity for not accepting the trend of poor results but I feel optimistic about the game, I really think the lads are going to turn it on tonight. As fans we've had to wait so long for games like this so let's forget about the dire performance against QPR (despite three points) and enjoy the match.

22 Oct 2014 20:38:15
you still feeling optimistic

22 Oct 2014 19:04:02
super mario will score tonight come on the reds!!

22 Oct 2014 18:42:35
Football was made for nights like tonight. All round the f***ing fields boys!

This is where BR has got us, yet some are calling for his head already. Personally, I think he has done a terrific job but now he is in unknown territory and has to learn quickly. I think he will do fine, and a win could kick start our season.

I'm going 3-1 tonight. Gerrard to score first. Come on Liverpool! Ynwa

Red Rum

Brendan is a stubborn inexperienced manager who through his own making will get himself the sack not anyone on this sites fault but his own. Won't learn from his mistakes and constantly persevering with a system that does not suit the players at his disposal or indeed even playing the right personnel simply because he does not like them.

Suarez got us here tonight, like he got us 2nd with his goals and assists and his all round play, without suarez brenda is all at seas and can't even fix the defence after spending so much money and seeing week in weeek out we can't defend balls into the box, or do you think brenda would have got us 2nd last season without suarez, and that he has fixed our defensive problems

22 Oct 2014 17:21:22
Anyone think we should be gathering the streets like last season and make Madrid life misery before they even get hear hoping to the kop been on full form tonight I'm ever the optimistic i'm going 3-1 and ballotelli to get a brace ;)

22 Oct 2014 16:42:41
I'm curious, why do people think Balotelli will start scoring when Sturridge is fit? Because he blamed his form on not having a strike partner?

I think it will help him because balotelli cwn be marked out of a game and havong sturridge back will help him out as well as the simple fact that sturridge is a wuality attacking player and improves us going forward drastically

22 Oct 2014 19:37:13
I think if it was that simple mate, Borini or Lambert would be playing with him!

22 Oct 2014 16:24:25
Liverpool 0-7 Real Madrid

22 Oct 2014 17:01:25
You look like you fell out of a primark catalogue.

22 Oct 2014 18:13:10
(Sipmson's Nelson) Ha Ha!

Peter Andre. Lol's

It's not Peter Andre, it's his arl fella after a session.

Carlton - Fresh Prince of Belair

Take a day off, soft lad. You look blinkered and tired.

22 Oct 2014 15:52:35
This lad jordan rossiter for a 17 year old lad he has a brain of a 32 year old. His positional sense and the awareness of the game is exceptional, and the calmness and leadership ability just fantastic. Sky's the limit for this lad

22 Oct 2014 16:26:43
Next time Allen is injured I'd like to see him making the squad

Let's hope he doesn't get "Brendaned" like Alberto, Illori, Sakho, Suso & Wisdom have.

'Brendaned'?

What's Sakho got to do with that?

Whenever I see a useless irrelevant post, I'll refer to it as a 'dalglish loyalist' one such was the irrelevance of that.

Do you even know the meaning of that God-aweful expression?

22 Oct 2014 14:56:02
Great to see the U19's doing well! Defending better than the first team! Got away with one with that penalty miss but let's not take anything away from that first half performance. 2-0!

22 Oct 2014 14:35:20
Edd001 will you be watching the match tonight mate? I want us to beat a great attacking team in Madrid but I fear our defense could be completly exposed. I hope we raise our game especially on this occasion, if the players can't on a.night like this then I don't know what will. Tonight could be very important on Rodgers impending future. Hoping for a great match and a win

{Ed001's Note - yes mate, I will be watching, I just hope it is a good game either way. I want to see us get at them, rather than letting them dictate play.}

22 Oct 2014 14:10:50
Im looking forward to tonight!
I just hope we play with 2 up top, either sterling and mario or mario and borini.

If moreno is back that will be a big boost, I think he has been one of our better players so far.

lets get a result tonight! ynwa

Moreno will be key against James tonight. I hope he plays because I CANNOT stand the sight of Enrique atm. He is as lazy and uninterested and uncommitted as they come. We cannot afford to have slackers on the pitch tonite.

22 Oct 2014 12:30:33
Bet placed for a draw with 4 or more goals!

Seriously hoping for a win though, any win. A QPR style win.

Just not a battering.

Here's to hoping.

22 Oct 2014 12:23:12
Not so much a rumour, more a transfer question.
I read a 'Eds reply' the other day regarding rogers and how he's messed a lot players around. What players were you referring to? ilori, Luis Alberto, Suso and the like?
What are is opinions of these players which I assumed he wanted / scouted / bought. Most when given an opportunity have shown glimpses of talent but don't seem to be getting a good opportunity.
I do feel Can will develop like Lucas. He turned himself round at liverpool and became a great player shame that his injury has either wrecked his confidence or physically finished him off.
Do you know or have incite as to how the Anfield higher powers react to how rogers treats these players?

{Ed002's Note - RTP - all done to death.}

22 Oct 2014 10:44:25
I was away for the QPR game. I got the feedback from the posts, that it was dreadful. I watched it for the first time last night in full, and would like to offer the following analysis.

Our defensive frailties were totally summed up by the two QPR goals.

Goal one. A free kick on the half way line. PC got booked for delaying it, so everyone should have been in place. The ball is tossed in long, Traore is a LB by trade, chests it and plays keepy-up with his head. How is he allowed such a liberty? He heads it across and JE does the first part of his job correctly, a decent (not great) header out of danger. At this point he forgets he is a defender. He gets out to Vargas, who gets past him on the goalside too easy, then doesn't track his run. Now, I only played 3rd division Sunday League, so I'm no football god. However, I played mostly at right-back, and I know my job was to make sure my man never got goal side of me, in ANY situation. How can a £50k a week professional not know the same? Unbelievably poor.

Goal 2 to me is the shocker. We've just gone 2-1 up with injury time on us. Get organised from the kick off. No-one was. The ball is tossed up front, we part clear it, midfield isn't properly in place, a deflection takes it out for a corner. Now comes the AWFUL part. If there was ever a moment in a game to concentrate, this was it. The organisation just didn't happen. That is the MAIN part of the jobs of DL and SG. JA on the post is shouting, but gets distracted by having to tell others to do their job and makes a hash of the role of standing on the post. SG takes NO responsibility to cover the front of the 6 yard box. JH tracks Vargas' run, but too late. Then Mignolet gets in a mess with JA slightly out of position (he basically gets in his way).

The problem is all too easy too see. Our players get beaten too easily by strength and determination. MS justs holds on and will now get punished if he ever does it again after the decision against Shawcross.

So what is the answer? We have defenders who can't track runs, mark their man, beat their man in the air.

Zonal marking - yes, the much maligned zonal marking. Once we got used to it, we were very good against set pieces, despite the comments that made it seem like a disaster. It was very successful. What I do believe is that we are weakest at set pieces, so we need to change something. I am sure it must have been considered, and I would hope it has been tried on the coaching ground.

Sadly, I now am coming to the conclusion that although BR had us being wonderful to watch last season, he is struggling to coach the defensive unit properly. We have not gelled as a unit yet, and unless we do, we will suffer some embarrassing defeats this season when we can't come back from defensive errors (AV, WHU have already happened).

I would be interested in any comments.

Given that all of the players are making basic defensive mistakes and showing a lack of organisation, determination and speed in defending, it does suggest that the defensive coaching is not good enough, or they are not focusing enough on that part of the game.
We made Bobby Zamora look like a world beater every time they came forward. I don't think that will happen tonight because they will raise their intensity for Real. let's be honest, if they don't improve their defending against Ronaldo and co, it could be a humiliating scoreline.

On the anlysis of the 1st goal, I;m not sure how you're meant to win a ball that's being juggled by the ehad, it's not easy to go in and just head it, if you do, you're guaranteed to go flying into the player and give away a free kick/penalty. What's worrying is that again and again and again, lovren and skrtel are getting beaten in the air and on the ground.

for the second goal the most telling for me is that Stevie proves once again why he shouldn't be captain, his leadership capabilities have gone. What's the point in criticising migs when he doesn't come for corners etc, when for the last few games, it's been evident players are NOT listening to him when he tells them where to be.

We are in desperate need of a defensive coach for set pieces, and just in general. It was evident last year, and it's embarrasingly clear this year.

{Ed001's Note - I agree with your point about the juggling, except that they allowed him to move with it, he should have been blocked off.}

It's straight forward enough. There's too much ball watching. On paper the defence looks half decent. You can't employ a system such as Rodgers has and allow the defence to lack positional solidarity.

Point taken on that one ed001.

{Ed001's Note - if you can run five yards inside the box with no one even closing you down, then you know the opposition has serious issues. Traore was just completely unopposed. Can you imagine someone like Kompany allowing that to happen if it had been against City? I wouldn't have imagined Lovren doing that mind, last season he would have been closing down, this season he is watching and waiting.}

No ed certainly not. I can't understand what's happened to Lovren. He's a completely different player atm to what we saw at southampton.

I think some 1 really needs to grab this team by the scruff of the neck, and be a leader and organise.

That should come from BR and the coaching staff which is obviously not happening. It`s so bad atimes that I feel like going thru the TV onto the pitch and grabbing the players and getting in their faces. There`s no leadership in that team and we now defend like Arsenal does i.e everyone standing and watching w/o anyone lifting a finger to take charge. Ed is right, coaching is a BIG problem and that staff needs to be re-evaluated from head to toe.

22 Oct 2014 09:52:41
Hi eds
Does anyone think the art of defending is getting worse than years gone by because players r afraid to tackle and get sent off r is it over coaching from a very young age if you look at all the top teams even barca, real, bayern.they have had problems with their defence the likes of maldini, McGrath, HANSEN et al from the good oul days would be a real premium now and would demand an very big transfer fee now I could not name a defender now I would have in front of these players at cb and I'm sure the is bigger than them 3 but that's 3 of my fav defenders I just put up.

{Ed001's Note - I think it is a lack of good coaching, personally.}

22 Oct 2014 11:31:08
With your response ed a change of Brendans backroom staff is needed r this problem could drag on and cost him his job because imo we won that game on Sunday we shouldn't have won and could not complain much if we lost to qpr and Southampton that puts us on 7 points relegation form if king Kenny pays the price for poor results so will Brendan.

Those players mentioned are dinosaurs from a different era, the game has completely changed since their days.

22 Oct 2014 12:50:47
I think you're right as a general point about defending Tommy - it's a much harder job than it used to be, you're much more limited and it's very rare to find the lone great defender helping an average line find excellence. Having one great player come in isn't going to just sort us out.

That being said, it's not the issue that we're facing - what we're facing has gone far beyond that

It has to be the Clubs philosophy on Defending that is the issue here. I watch most of the U21's and U18's and they make the same mistakes as the first 11. We have been making the same mistakes for the last 3 years at least.
Surely somebody has to eventually see sense and change things? I wouldn't mind Steve Clarke coming back in as a defensive coach for this season to sort us out and educate Brendan, he seems to have a blind spot to this particular issue.

22 Oct 2014 16:04:35
Steve Clarke r can't see him coming in to the backroom staff but Tony pulis r karl Robinson.

22 Oct 2014 16:19:37
So bobathong you don't think players from eras gone by couldn't cope in this era I would definitely say it's the other way round the pampered players away from reality This last 15years it's unbelievable, even carra who has only retired is struggling to see the sense in players who haven't even made the first team have no reason to push themselves they r made for life.imo the players I put on my list for defence none relied on being dirty but we're hard enough to mix it with Mark Hughes type players in their prime they would command top wages on offer at this present moment.

Maldini a dinosaur?

Daftest thing I've read so far today.

Maldini is one of the best ALL-ROUND defenders to ever play the game. He was two-footed and could play ANYWHERE across the backline with NO issues at all. Clearly the poster who said that NEVER saw him play which is the norm among some young people who post on here. If you never saw him play then he must have been crap. Dumbest post, ever!

22 Oct 2014 01:04:35
Hey eds, tried the search function but didn't find anything. Any news on when Flannagan may return?

{Ed001's Note - he is not due back for a couple of months yet, if I remember correctly.}

22 Oct 2014 07:43:50
According to physiorooms.com he returns December 14th

21 Oct 2014 23:44:41
I do think tarabt is more industrious than Ballotelli. Play borini and see if he can harry the defence a bit with his energy.

21 Oct 2014 20:54:50
I'm growing to hate these comments that emant from Liverpool before games. The latest one of "expect a hurricane in the pitch" is both laughable and embarrassing.

We barely mustered up a bluebottle's fart on Sunday against bottom of the table QPR let alone a hurricane against Madrid.

Stop talking rubbish lads and do your talking on the damn pitch.

22 Oct 2014 06:38:52
the hurricane is cristiano ronaldo. it was referred to in the pre match interview

No mate I'm sorry, go to the Liverpool echo's site. You'll see an article titled "Rodgers warns madrid to expect hurricane on the pitch"

It's embarrassing hearing stuff like that. Especially the way we're playing at the moment

22 Oct 2014 08:07:01
the actual quote is "the hurricane will be on the field, that's for sure". this is in reply to a journalist asking him whether he was more worried about hurricane gonzalo (actual hurricane) or hurricane ronaldo. the writer has just angled the story for it to be perceived that way. if you just read his quotes he actually says we haven't been playing well.

It does seem that the journalist has gotten carried away with what was said

The point is still valid regardless- the players do come out with the same guff week after week about how they are going to play much better next time, but each performance seems more spineless than the last.
My heart says a draw might be possible if ronaldo has a poor game, but my head says they'll score at least two, and I don't see where we will get two goals from at the moment.
When you think we last played Real with Alonso, Gerrard and Mascherano in their prime, it makes you wonder what Rafa might have achieved if he was ever given the budget that kenny or br have spent.
We came close to signing david silva and david villa for example, but the finances weren't made available.
But then in fairness, Rafa signed some stinkers as well.

22 Oct 2014 15:23:58
Irishkopite, the Echo is embarrassing.

There's no freedom in association of press when it's owned by Trinity Mirror.

Our little 'peoples' paper was taken years ago with a burden of exclusive hungry amateur journalists.

Fair enough Dave if its become less and less reliable as a source of info, ill take that onboard but as anonymush points out too, there always seems to be these what I personally call "non stories"

Eg: Borini recently saying he'll grab his opportunities (paraphrasing as I don't have time to find the exact article) he's been saying that for ages yet does nothing if he ever gets a chance(granted they're limited chances). These stories just anger me more than they change my perception of any given player.

Ill support any player in red when on the pitch but stop telling me what you're going to do, just go and do it.