Liverpool Banter Archive November 23 2013

23 Nov 2013 23:15:43
I I suppose its obvious we need midfielders, I don't need to say it again.
Who do ye think we should get? Realistic choices obviously

Tell you what. If I was was BR I would go all out to get Cabaye and. Would make Everton an offer they couldn't refuse for Barkley. The lad makes things happen. I know it's not likely but come on, surely we have to try?!?!?

23 Nov 2013 21:16:29
We have a broad range of posters on these pages but were any of you at the previous 3-3 draw in the Merseyside derby?

Not me mate :(

No but I do remember a 4 all draw just before kenny resigned

Nah man couldn't afford it. In my uncle's house, half of us red, the other half blue - proper derby day house.

23 Nov 2013 19:29:28
Johnson was poor today. His faults led to two if the Everton goals

Think you're being a bit nice there. he was atrocious today. don't get me wrong, i'm a GJ fan, but that performance isn't acceptable. senior members of the team need to step up in Derbys

Johnson is usually quite clumsy and gives away the ball a lot and he did it as usual today. When we drop points, his performance gets highlighted.

For me Everton's 3rd goal was a henderson fault for loosing possession in out half then during their period of possession they got a throw in, which led to a corner, which led to the goal.

but Allen. I was lost for words when he missed but I was expecting him to miss because he missed a similar chance in pre-season.

As a defender, GJ does things that are flat-out stupid and hard to understand. Each mistake he made caused danger hence, Lucas had to always cover for him. He`s a good player but is not a natural defender and not uncompromising at all and takes too many prisoners. He had a wretched game. Flanno on the other hand, played a blinder. Take a bow, son!

24 Nov 2013 08:02:49
I agree. I don't want to be called fickle, I havenot rated him for years.
He was at fault for two goals, and it could have been much worse, Lucas and Mignolet saved his ass a few times today.

On a positive note, I felt young Flanno had a good game, very composed display for such a young lad and such a big game.
Kudos!

23 Nov 2013 19:04:42
I enjoyed the game today, loads of passion, but I can't help thinking BR got his team choice wrong again, Toure and Sahko would have started for me, and I know Flanno did well but it was a gamble in a big game like a derby, so I would have played Agger at left back or Cissokho, Allens miss was painful to see, I feel for the guy, played great for Wales the other night but today?

It would be criminal if skrtel is dropped for anybody.
I am more worried how everton kept running at our midfield with constant ease.not the first time it has happened this season

Yeah jack I remember Lukaku terrorising Agger last season when he was at west brom. Sakho would have handled him better.

Skirtl and Agger played Lukaku quite wll until late in the 2nd have when he scored via GJ`s mistakes. They were awesome and BR got it right.

23 Nov 2013 17:19:39
This match was what it should have been a derby chances and everything else you need grate game either side could have nicked it but Everton away a draw is a good result let's be honest

Yeah I haven't got so excited during a game in quite some time.

Exactly like moses chance at the end probably would have gave me a good heart attack let's just keep battling to the final whistle like today

Yeah it was one of them good old fashioned 90's matches. Although he made some mistakes Dowd did let the game flow. When Sturridge scored the equalizer I was too exhausted to even celebrate. Great advert for the premier league.

It was a great game BUT Dowd messed up BIG TIME. How Mirallas finished the game when he almost broke LS`s leg and made Hendo bleed thru his eye is beyond the realm of logical reasoning. Those are not mistakes. Those are stupid mistakes.

23 Nov 2013 17:25:40
What an amazing game that was.
mignolet saved the day for us imo. lucas at his best. flano was amazing.
after Lucas got subbed it was a game form one box to another

btw. reading day m'villa was there at the game and sat with Liverpool fans. ders some pictures out der as well claming he said he will sign for Liverpool come January

I think, had sturridge not scored, the decision to take Lucas off for Sturridge will've been up there with the decision to take Hamman off for Smicer against Leverkusen.

Hope M'Vila was just there for the spectacle. Every time I've watched him he's been ordinary. Would be a waste of money on a mediocre player.

Everytime I've seen him play (for France before his ban) he has been good.
Bt that's been a year nw I guess and he moved to Russia last jan so haven't seen much of him recently to say abt hw he has been doing there

Redmist I agree he isn't a world beater, he's solid, not waste of money though.

but I do believe there are players out there that are cheeper that should be looked at.

M`Vila`s aweful so u can forget him.

23 Nov 2013 16:11:20
Good game today, but I feel we should have won. Rodgers made a terrible terrible mistake by taking out Lucas and Allen, most especially since we were still a goal up. Everytime the got the ball, they wen't straight through our defense to Mignolet.

We should have won?mignolet is the only reason we drew this game

Allen is the only reason our lead wasn't 3-1

Wrong. Migs did his job. If Dowd and Allen (even if I think he had a decent game overall) had done theirs, we would have won. and BTW, Lucas and Allen were taken off for sturridge and moses because BR was TRYING TO WIN THE GAME.

23 Nov 2013 15:50:01
Fair result today and a draw at Goodison is always good to take. The miss by Allen though is really aweful even if he did not play badly given his long absence but this clearly indicate that the guy needs games to boost up his confidence. Mignolet and Suarez MOTM. Flanno was also very good today. Hope Arsenal draw with the Saints today but they are leading by a goal and what a goal, the best gag goal I have ever seen in my life, check it and comment.

I wouldn't say it was a fair result, everton deserved to win, mingolet saved lfc today

The keeper had so many chances to just take it on the chin and knock it out of play but just kept fannying around with it, what a joke!

'I wouldn't say it was a fair result' - of course it was unfair! Mirallas should have been sent off for the rash tackle on Suarez! Take your blue or white tinted glasses off, nimrod!

It was a fair result. Let's wait till Man City trash Spurs and see what Mr. the word has to say.

Must be a bitter knowing that he hasn`t only beaten lfc twice in the league since 2007 (God knows how many losses in between). If Mirallas had seen red like he should have and Allen had scored, he would have crawled back into his blue hole to lick his wounds.

23 Nov 2013 15:39:49
Well first of all that was a hell of a match. I'd could feel my heart pounding any time the ball went near either box in the last 30min. Regardless of how I feel about decisions and the result, at least we were treated to the kind of spectacle fans deserve after paying big money for tickets and tv subscriptions. We have at least that much to be thankful for.
Now onto the game. On the whole, I thought a number of incidents (some inside and some outside of our control) cost us the 3pts but a draw was probably a fair result. We certainly didn't deserve to lose.
The first big decision was the Mirallas tackle on Suarez. Derby day or not that must be a red card, and not that it will help our cause but he should without doubt be banned retrospectively (although I'm not sure if he can be seeing as he was booked for the tackle). If the ref gets that decision right, not even that difficult a decision really, then we are 2-1 up and 11vs10, surely 3pts?
Another huge turning point was Joe Allen's miss. A chance to give us a two goal cushion and kill off the match was squandered by a player short of match sharpness and confidence. You could see how upset Suarez was that he didn't simply roll it across to him but nonetheless it was a simple finish for Joe (a player I like but just has not been up to scratch for quite some time now and his injury excuse is wearing thin).
Another thing I picked up on throughout the game was that 3 players (Gerrard, Mirallas and Distin) conceded free kicks for raising their arms in people's faces yet none were cautioned for these offences It would have resulted in the two Everton players being sent off as they received other bookings during the match. While at least that was consistent within this match the Torres vs Spurs incident this season highlighted the fact that such fouls are often considered red card offences by themselves so a caution should be a minimum.
I would also like to highlight a few Liverpool players' contributions today.
Jon Flanagan raised a lot of eyebrows with his selection but in the main was outstanding with numerous blocks, interceptions and tackles.
Mignolet for me today was our motm. A number of brilliant saves (particularly against Lukaku) at crucial times showed exactly why we signed him and he could not have done anything with any of their goals.
Lucas' lack of pace was shown up on occasion but today should have proved beyond doubt to many as to why he is in the team. His reading of the game was incredible, snuffing out danger all over the pitch as well as committing necessary fouls to stop one or two dangerous counter-attacks.
Our two starting "wingers" (Henderson and Coutinho) showed that they are nowhere near as effective out wide as they are centrally. Henderson, in fact, proved this when he moved inside to accommodate Moses and he was far more influential in the last 20min. As usual Coutinho showed flashes of his undoubted magic but apart from his goal had very little sway on the match. This is something Rodgers must address as he is without a special talent.
On the negative end I think Allen and Moses were ineffective today. I know Moses wasn't given much time but the game was stretched when he came on, perfect for a player with his attributes and yet he added very little to the team as well as missing a big chance in added time. As for Allen (his glaring miss aside) I feel this was simply the wrong game to bring him back into the team for. His skill is controlling the tempo of a match, a near impossible task for any team let alone a player in the Mersyside derby which is always played with intensity and passion at 100mph. As such, I felt the match just passed him by and we looked at lot stronger with Henderson added to the midfield.
My final comment is that 5 of the 6 goals in the match were from set pieces, showing a lot more time must be dedicated to defending them. To allow Johnson be left to mark Lukaku is criminal and nearly proved very costly until the incredible scoring streak of one Daniel Sturrdige bailed us out. On the flip side, it proves Coutinho must be more involved centrally if we are to create from open play. They are my thoughts on a whirlwind match, would appreciate other views in the comments. Just keep in mind, we will probably remain in 2nd after this weekend and our next 4-5 matches allow us plenty of opportunity to consolidate that position.
YNWA

Good post man!

Good post, I agree totally. Coutinho has got to played more central, he gets too lost outside for long stretches of the match. He needs touches and mostly in dangerous areas to impose himself on the game.
I think the CBs did just ok today, but I am left to wonder how sakho may have matched Lukaku. Agreed that Johnson had no business marking him.

As much as I agree that coutinho should be more involved, it`s a derby hence a battle where no prisoners are taken so BR cannot just put coutinho in a position that could unbalance the team especially as everton were doubling up on him s much as they could. The CB`s did very well against Lukaku who barely had a kick until he scored via GJ`s brainless bliunders. Let`s take the point and move on.

23 Nov 2013 15:37:31
I thought our passing and ball retention were abysmal to-day, which is ironic since Rodgers clearly picked a team to stifle midfield .

It doesn't seem to matter how many midfielders the manager picks, five ( like today ), four, three or two we never seem to get the balance right in the big games .

I thought we were really lucky to take a point, though a defeat would have been so unfair on Flanagan, Suarez and Mignolet, who were all brilliant .

No not "really lucky" we weren't horrendous it was simply a game of high intensity but low quality, from both sides. Some players failed to step up but don't think we were played off the park like you seem to be implying.

The midfield was yet again, very very poor.

When your ahead in a derby match your going to have a spell where you have to soak up the pressure sadly Allen missed that chance but let's be happy lads still second aren't we

Agree with Dezy. It was a derby. The quality of play is IRRELEVANT. The standard of play is generally poor and mistakes will happen.The team who can maximise its chances and minimise its mistakes always has a chance to win. Both teams made mistakes hence a draw. BUT, Dowd messed up big time and at 10 men with one goal down, who knows. I say that because newcastle were a man down and almost won against us.

I agree with Ritter. What has happened to our ability to retain the ball in midfield. What has happened to our composure and tactical awarness. This is the reason we bought Allen?
With regard to Steven gerrard who has been the greatest ever Liverpool player and still is fantastic, is it time now to chose his games a little more carefully?

23 Nov 2013 15:26:56
Everton vs Liverpool

positives

- brilliant game of football
- attacking wise we are deadly
- Flanagan shone today, arguably our best player on the pitch
- Mignolet, despite conceding 3 goals, was excellent
- strength of character to come back was outstanding
- a draw isn't a bad result away against Everton, it is something we can build on
- Henderson was tireless
- Suarez is just an unreal talent - if/when we sell him we should get TOP dollar

negatives

- lost possession of the ball so many times
- Gerrard, despite his excellent freekick for Sturridge, was poor and seemed very jaded
- Johnson was an embarrassment
- Ref bottled the Mirallas decision (both knee high lunge and elbow on Henderson)
- Allen bottled his chance and with it the chance for us to win, don't see Everton coming back from 3-1
- Our defending from set pieces is catastrophic at times: Johnson marking Lukaku? Come on!
- We could have won
- way too many mistakes, a great derby but a lot of our woes self inflicted


Conclusions

After a breathless derby and a heart rate returned to its normal rhythm the overwhelming emotion is contentment. I'd of taken a draw before the game and so, despite all the drama on the pitch, am not forlorn with disappointment because we didn't win. The truth is we didn't really deserve to. Everton were gifted far too many chances and, were it not for the heroics of Mignolet, have won the game. Our attacking was was good, Suarez a constant menace, good pressing of the ball (Henderson in particular exceptional in this respect). Lucas played well (though did his usual of giving away a few freekicks in dangerous area's) and Coutinho, though in and out of the game, looked very dangerous when in it. A lot of people have said Gerrard was excellent - personally I thought he was slow to the ball, hit and miss with his passes and misplaced way too many short passes, a few in what could have been goal scoring area's. Flanagan was exceptional - I was dubious at his inclusion but he didn't put a foot wrong. Skrtel was at fault for the first goal (IMO) would along with Agger was fairly solid - the mystery of Lukaku being marked by Johnson for their third will remain unanswered but either Agger or Skrtel must mark the danger men or we need to try another player at centre back (Sakho) who is capable. Special mention to Glen Johnson for the worst performance I have ever seen in a derby - lethargic, slow, wasteful, lazy, bad passing, caught in possession - liability today and personally I think he should be fined for such a bad display, unacceptable. It is not a secret that I don't like Allen however I thought he had a reasonable game today until his glaring error. Either pass or score but to miss? At 3-1 the game is ours and I think that miss gave Everton renewed belief - Allen's confidence seems fragile and that mistake unlikely to help. Some players might have the talent but without the mentality they are never going to be good enough, I fear Joe Allen might be one such player. The best thing we can do (as fans) is support him and hope his self belief picks up because on the evidence today (before the miss) he could still play a part.

All in all a draw is acceptable and in the circumstances we're probably the happier set of fans. It's important we play better and pick up wins against the teams lower in the league to maintain our momentum - we didn't lose today and I think that was important. Great value for money, think I need to lie down now.

p.s. Dowd's decision not to send off Mirallas was just baffling as all replays showed he had an unimpeded view. Even more dumbfounding was his crystal clear view of Mirallas elbow Henderson yet not even produce a 2nd yellow, weak officiating. Not really good enough and could have really altered the outcome. Mirallas was also offside in the build up to Everton's 2nd goal, the impact his prescence on the pitch had shouldn't be under estimated.

p.p.s Michael Owens commentary infuriates me, I have everything about his punditry.

Seano, the words KAMAKAZE FOOTBALL
Come to mind, it's ROY EVANS all over
again, but ROY EVANS football was
better, we're was COUTINHO today
Isn't he the one who sets our tempo
In all the top games he goes missing,
also who are the defensive coaches
at melwood or don't we need them
under BREND'A philosophy.

Coutinho does drift in and out of games but think much of that has to do with were he is being asked to play i.e. wide left.

Not quite Roy Evans football just attacking minded. The big issue for me was that most (if not all) of Everton's 2nd half chances came from mistakes by our players in the attacking third. Johnson as culpable on multiple occasions as was Gerrard. Were our own worst enemy today - can't blame Rodgers for individual stupidity.

Definitely need to look at our set piece defending though, costs us a daft amount of goals. Don't think Skrtel/Agger combination can handle set pieces.

23 Nov 2013 15:12:24
Thank god that's over thought I was going to take a heart attack. Joe Allen's miss was a disgrace and I'm sure he is aware of it. If that went in I think we would have won. Not sure of Rodgers decision bringing on Moses for lucus we where very vulnerable after that. But how about Suarez wot a player the guy just never gives up, incredible.

Not to opprress but to inform . Moses came on for Allen which seemed quite reasonable, it was Sturridge who came on for Lucas to try to grab the equaliser . It was wide open after that .

I might have got that mixed up to be honest, a long day . sigh .

23 Nov 2013 15:07:13
as a Liverpool fan I enjoyed barkley today, barkley is a talented player.
allen-hendersen are just not good enough for the big games, they simple miss quality.
we had last seasons team on the pitch.
we play on suarez-sturridge ability and on our defence.
we have no midfield to match the top teams.
malta

Agree completely.

Henderson was tireless, he played well. Allen was mediocre, Lucas good (but zero creative spark/dynamic passing) and Gerrard was just poor until he free kick delivery. Henderson is an easy target but your ire should be aimed at Gerrard, he was our poorest midfielder today.

You enjoyed barkley.?

Posts like these are baffling, what a load of rubbish.

23 Nov 2013 14:56:38
Great game to watch. Dowd should have sent mirralles off and that would have been game over but he's got a hidden agenda against us. Thought Flanagan played well. Point away against Everton any team would take that how well organised they are.

No, its defo 2 points dropped.

23 Nov 2013 14:51:28
Mignolet and flanagan had a blinder.
Can we get johnson as far away from marking the opposition players as possible?
However, great game, a point away from home against the blue noses, ill take that.

Johnson already is as far away from marking the opposition players S possible!

GJ`s a good player BUT made some boneheaded mistakes today. Sort it out. Flanno had a blinder of a game. Mass Props!

23 Nov 2013 14:48:49
That was a great game of football, but Mirrelles
should have been Red carded, that was not a challenge on Suarez it was a Roy Keene chop.

23 Nov 2013 14:44:20
My nerves are shot. Heartbeat is irregular. Upset we lost the lead but very proud we fought back to tie it up. Almost won it! What a game.

Flanagan was pretty good today to be out of position. Subbing Lucas seemed questionable. WHAT A GAMEEEEEE. So glad we got something out of it. 1 point at Everton isn't bad at all.
Stop blaming the ref.

23 Nov 2013 14:30:27
Let me just put it out there, why is Johnson marking lukaku.

23 Nov 2013 14:19:16
I know what we should do. let's leave the centre forward unmarked in our box. Disgraceful defending!

Schoolboy marking at best.

23 Nov 2013 14:15:16
2nd half syndrome. AGAIN!

23 Nov 2013 13:39:57
not a bad half. coutinhio and henderson struggle outwide on an attacking point of view. allen sitting to deep and struggling to support suarez. hate to see our attacking players so isolated. fingers crossed with more possesion we'll pose more of a threat

23 Nov 2013 12:18:51
Team news in sturridge is on the bench and guess what Allen is fit again so Rogers puts him in can't Rogers except Allen just isn't good enough for lfc

23 Nov 2013 12:32:04
I'm of the generation that remembers the original Flanaghan and Allen. Let's hope that our version is as good as they were (but not as funny!).
DM2013

It's daft to say something before a game mate

Allen m.o.m!

Squaretomato daft? I would have put that in if I was in a wheelchair 15mil for what

I said before the game it's daft, not after!

Sickens me to listen to that junk. Allen making his first start in a while. Get a grip. Find something better to do than hate on our players. If you're going to be a supporter, then support.

Before or after the game makes no difference. he has done absolutely nothing since he arrived. he played well against man city last season early that's it. and Tj were all supporters but its hard not to give out about Allen and Cissokho for that matter.

You just have no idea what supporting means omalley. Allen will come good and you will be eating your words, like with Lucas and Henderson. Grow up

How many games have you been at? fair enough lucas got bad abuse and hendo is doing well but u say I will eat my words? Do u have a crystal ball which says he will get better?

23 Nov 2013 11:50:34
good luck flanno! prove me wrong

23 Nov 2013 07:39:23
FYI: the lucky pants are ON.

We'll definitely win today then!