Liverpool Banter Archive September 24 2014

24 Sep 2014 22:49:02
The lads gave absolutely everything last season and more, and for all that hard work to come to nothing must have demoralising. Imagine how gutted they will have felt. How do you pick yourself up and motivate yourself to go again?

For me, the lads needed a long break to refresh their minds and come back fully rested, ready for the new season. Instead, most were occupied with the world cup and then straight back into club football before they knew it.

Only this time they go into the new season with a weakened team. You have to look at what Suarez brought to the team and take into account exactly what we have lost, and that is a true world class player. He was a top finisher, he created chances; sometimes from nothing, he lead from the front and his desire and enthusiasm spread throughout the team.

Having also to contend with injuries to 5 players that were heavily involved last season meant that some of the new lads have been thrown in at the deep end, and then injuries to some of the those haven't helped either.

It all seems a bit of a mess at the moment. There is no noticeable system in place and players aren't performing up to standard. We signed some good players in the summer for their respective positions, but we are still a couple of key players short before we can compete at the same level as last season.

Taking everything into account there is no reason why we can't have a respectable season if Rodgers can reorganise and revitalise the team. It was always going to be difficult to continue to the same standard as last season and I think the best we can do is get behind the lads and the manager and trust them to get us back to winning ways.

Red Rum

Post of the week, couldn't agree more with that analysis. Hats off to you sir.

It wasn't for nothing, it was for CL football which was a nice and for most of them new reward. Hou do u motivate yourself after that? Well 50 grand a week or more that most of them recieve should do the work. Re world cup I cannoy think of anyone in our squad that played beyond the group stage. Chelsea was also dissapointed at the end of last season, didn't do them any damage. Sorry, these are just poor excuses in my view. BR said in the summerו even before buying Mario that he think we can go 1 more and win the title this year. show u how detached from reality he was. I still hope we will improve but every match we play make it harder to believe. Maybe tomorrow.

Can you please keep reposting this every couple of hours?
We should also post videos of us under Hodgson and Dalglish

By tomorrow I meant Saturday of course and basically what I wanted to say is that it is not a matter of motivation which I think our players have plenty of (if not is than it is outragous given the money these guys earn), but of quality, organisation, tactics, formation and coaching. Yes Suarez going has a lot to do with it, but if him going has such a negative impact on us then maybe he (and not the other players or BR) should get the credit for our achievements last year.

24 Sep 2014 21:25:22
concerning the atmosphere at Anfield, since the standing has been implemented the atmosphere is nowhere near as exciting or vocal as before, the fan safety is paramount we all understand that, the days of 25,000 kopite's squeezed together a swaying mass of singing, roaring fans are over it seems, the danger then was people at the back could not see when the ball was close to the Kop byline and the pushing created the dangerous "wall" or "crush" why can't there be a compromise? surely with good planning standing areas can be re-established without the area becoming unsafe, maybe the top half of the Kop could be seated, the area nearest the pitch could see standing re introduced, along with a safety wall or gates that under a certain pressure would collapse and give access directly onto the pitch and provide space and safety, all seating has certainly changed the experience, it''s just not the same, i do understand about our fears, losing 96 innocent people will never be forgot, but with the right design it could be achieved, Hillsborough had to rely on the discretion of the police to unlock safety gates! we know what the police thought about scouser's don't we! penned in like cattle, incompetent security we know the rest, but today's technology could change the safety into a positive.

Jack, it would be a backward step mate, it would only be a matter of time for clubs, police, authorities etc to get greedy, complacent again and we would end up with another disaster, it may take ten years or twenty, Maybe the reduction in atmosphere is a price we have to pay for the safety ofthe fans. I stood on the Kop and witnessed some great atmospheres but didn't realise at the time how dangerous some of the situations were, being in an overcrowded terrace not being in control of where you were going being carried by the crowd .

Alanhuyton, mate i'm not advocating going back to the dangerous old days, i think we could with proper planning and restrictions give fans the choice with safety paramount, i really don't see the point of seating if people then insist on standing throughout the game

25 Sep 2014 09:35:00
I don't see how an atmosphere cannot be created while sitting down.All the more at r ground when we know what we lost, let's not go back to the days when fans were treated like cattle, as a previous poster said it would not be long till complacency crept in.

Google hill 16 new terrace at croke park dublin to see safe standing area.

24 Sep 2014 20:23:46
thoughts on the atmos.

I was in the kop for boro for the first time in a while and the stewards quite aggressively shouted at anyone who stood up. turned quite a positive support into a very passive one. I know there are very good reasons for seating. none of us need any reminding of that. but why are away fans allowed to stand if no home fans are. clearly it gives them an advantage as they can get behind their team more. cue "shall we sing one for you" "you're supposed to be at home etc. "

I know the sideways and backwards passing we do at the moment hardly inspires any singing but when the crowd were allowed to stand late on the atmos noticably picked up, as did the team's performance.

wondering what people who are in the kop week in week out think?

24 Sep 2014 20:40:59
I stood all game on the kop.

24 Sep 2014 21:33:17
was that right at the back? I saw one section was. but it wasnt many people. no-one on the left hand side though.

304, 305 and 306 always stand Mr Shankly

24 Sep 2014 22:42:31
Near the back yeah.

24 Sep 2014 22:54:23
Cheers ozone. Next place i will get a ticket. if i can!!! ;)

Im for safe standing but the idea you can't chant sat down is a nonsense

24 Sep 2014 18:57:00
eds and reds i went to the match last night, with a very emotional boy!! i have to say for most of the game there wasnt any confidence, pressure ormovement, passing for the sake of it, passing instead of shooting, and the frustration is showing in the crowd. we were in ma in mainstand, vocal and supportive, but even there frustration showing. as boom said earlier, we have to get at the oppoasistion, hit them hard and early, gain control of the match and take the points!! why change it? as i said yday, don't fix it if it ain't broke!! the diamond should be played and if needs be put stevieg in the top of the diamond with sterling and henderson in the channels and one of can, lucas or allen at the base, take gerrard off when he tires and put lallana or couthinio on to finish them off. why br is tinkering around i don't know, last night he took lambert off to put balotelli on, we were trying to win a match! both shouldve been up top!! again PUZZLED!!!

24 Sep 2014 13:34:45
Hello eds and fellow reds, long time reader first time poster,

well last night was squeaky bum time all credit to boro, but I have noticed that when we do start to counter attack we seem to slow it up and let teams get all there players back behind the ball, I'm all for the keeping the ball if there is a end product but, we just don't seem to have this, also the lone striker for lambert/ballo is not really getting us anywhere IMO, but season still early, its just making me a bit of a nervous wreck watching the boys

I even tried sitting in a different chair, as last season lucky chair is not working so far,

24 Sep 2014 11:19:36
Why don't we give suso the assurances he wants get him to sign a contract & then we can sell him anyway in 3 months rather than do a fergie like when pogba left & now he makes them look stupid each week? Give him a few starts get him to sign a contract & then continue with whatever br's actual plans for him are then if he doesn't like it sell him in January

{Ed002's Note - Screwing with players careers like that is not the way forward.}

Well said ED, the way we treat our young players today determines the way young players who we want consider our offers in the future.

How's about just play him ahead of Coutinho at the moment, based on form, and if he signs then great. If he establishes himself and got above Coutinho long term then that would mean he's playing very well so win win.

This is a joke surely? You know footballers are actually people? The real world isn't like FIFA. You can't just lie to someone a tell them they'll be a "Crucial first team player" when really they'll barely get a kick! Brendan is probably realising now that Markovic was a pointless and risky buy. That is no fault of the players, but of the manager and the transfer commitee.

Every Liverpool fan i know is becoming increasingly disillusioned with BR. He needs to get his act together.

Eds- do you think BR is too stubborn to give Suso a chance now he has shown he deserves it, or form what you know and have seen of BR is he too stubborn?
I just think that if you don't have huge amounts of money to spend on players it was rather foolish of him to go and buy an attacking midfielder for 20m plus when we had a ready made one coming back with glowing reports from Almeria.

{Ed002's Note - I rather suspect the damage with Suso has been done and everyone is biding their time.}

24 Sep 2014 20:26:56
to be fair to brendan he did a u turn on hendo and skrtel.

and sometimes clever managers know they have to threaten to let someone go to inspire them to the next level of performance. let's hope that's what's happening anyway. we can't know for sure

I would hate to see suso go though. he linked really well with lallana and sterling particularly

24 Sep 2014 09:42:53
hi all

i think the only time liverpool played well was the second half of extra time, we created and pressed and attacked well suso should be given a chance i think his a great player. markovic needs time to settle i think if he shot instead of passing by the box he would of scored it was class penalties from both sides, so glad we won but credit to boro
harry is right when he says we need to attack and score as many goals in the first 45 mins we will have more control then, otherwise we look so nervous on the attack we need to bring our slick passing and goals back asap. sturridge is missed his got the movement and balo behind him will score more ynwa

24 Sep 2014 09:58:42
Kopit,

What happens when you score early, It brings confidence in the team, It also shackles the opposition early on and they start to come to us which open up spaces for our players to run through.

We scored clsoe to 80 goals last season with this formula.

So How do you score that early goal?.
Attack from the very first second, Press them high and don't give them time to settle down.

Totally agree with you harry
teams last season were scared to play us. i just hope we pick up form
ynwa

Probably the most coherent Harry has ever been with that post.

24 Sep 2014 13:15:44
Ag

That made my day.

Couldn't agree more Harry.
It would be an even better tactic this year as we have a better bench to replace the knackered players later on, unlike last year.

I thought it was Harry's "ghost writer" that wrote that ;o)

Great post harry - here's hoping for many more (of that type of post) not just anything! ;o)

24 Sep 2014 05:13:48
Markovic really needs to improve. Got the touches, skill and pace. But he needs to improve on determination, awareness and obviously physique. Gym work won't hurt. Even Sterling physically is stronger as compared to his debut season.

If he can do that, he can be hell of player.

He will need time, maybe another 2 years or so. Clearly a very talented winger but given the money and inexperience issue, would it have been better to keep Jordon Ibe instead of buying Markovic?

Spot on AG. Can anyone really tell me that Markovic is a better prospect than Ibe is?
Listen, I hope the new players settle in and become legends for the club and we should expect a few ropey performances in the beginning, but I do think that the first place to look when we need a new player should be in our reserve and youth teams.
We do have to be patient though!!

24 Sep 2014 07:57:34
Jonny

What I feel, Markovic is more suited to play in the middle Much like Sterling, Playing him on the flanks, especially on the right had side is a waste.

{Ed001's Note - why is it a waste? The lad is not shooting, which he should be if in the middle, so surely it would be better playing him wide to use his pace to stretch the game? You make all these throwaway comments without ever once being able to explain your thinking, that makes your comments just useless. If you don't start explaining yourself, rather than just posting thoughtless comments, I am going to just start deleting them. You are adding nothing of value to the site unless you can explain why you say what you say.}

24 Sep 2014 08:07:34
ED01.

Playing in the middle allows him to make those clever runs inside and those trickery and turn. I would still love him to play off the striker or at the tip of the diamond.
He is certainly not a Bale or Ronaldo type player for me, But more like What Robben was for Netherlands.
My Assesments might be wrong, But this is what I feel.
Everytime If you watch him close, He loves to cut inside.

{Ed001's Note - I can understand what you are saying, but without explanation it just seemed like an excuse to moan. Do you not feel that he should be played wide, cutting inside to create space for the full back to bomb into? Though that would require the full backs holding their runs and not just bombing forward so damn early and leaving us constantly exposed like they do currently! Actually I will stop there, before I get on my soap box about that and how we split the centre backs to drop a midfielder between them, because apparently our defenders are incapable of making a pass that travels more than 2 yards. I won't even go on to how that invites pressure from the opposition and allows them to counter us much higher up the pitch while forcing our team to drop deeper.}

24 Sep 2014 08:18:26
ED01.

He might be a winger at Benfica, But we play quiet different from benfica. We should utilize what we have in a player rather playing him where we want him to fill that position.

Sterling and Marko has enormous pace and both could dribble past any player. This two would be a deadly combo for a player played centrally.

Playing him more centrally would help him to link up with Sterling and the striker ahead, rather than being direct and beating your opposition full back.

We have a player who would love to cut inside every given oportunity.

I wasnt moaning ED01. But I would be gutted to see a player played out of position just to fill a position.

@Ed001, that's a very good point. Rossiter even told Lucas to push out in the 1st half but Lucas was obviously told to play the deepest role normally played by Gerrard. Sakho's passing is a heck of a lot better than he's given credit for and Toure is fine if he plays it short rather than wasting long balls. For me though I wish Rodgers looked at it from the centre backs point of view and dropping the midfielder in just blocks a pass to the other centre back without adding anything. This means we lose an attacking player as the centre back has 1 less midfielder to play it forward to and it does invite teams to push on as you mentioned.

I think it may have been Gerrard's idea to start this last season as he got more time and space to hit killer balls but that only worked when it was a surprise him going so deep.

And what you said about our full backs, Manquillo was almost playing right wing forward last night. Enrique burst forward but at least it was from a more reasonable starting point.

24 Sep 2014 09:07:17
Real AG,markovic has been bought for the future and is very talented if we would not have bought him now he would have ended up somewhere else,ibe is younger and will be with us next season.sterling,marko,ibe 3 wingers/attackers under 20 that will only get better.future looks good
malta

What makes you think LFC will be keeping Ibe, Sterling, Markovic all together? Who is leaving to accommodate them?

I understand where you are coming from vlr, but your point is idealistic and won't be happening.

25 Sep 2014 11:10:57
Real AG,we will need all 3,borini will leave origi will come in,that leaves with ibe marko sterling balo origi sturridge that's 6 players for 3 positions all needed.with the league and cups we need them.lambert will be a impact player
Malta

24 Sep 2014 01:09:27
Do you think any player's improved their chances of a start v toffees, or do you think BR already has his team in mind?
Lallana was sharp and would like to see him get the nod. If Coutinho is injured still, then what are Suso's chances? Slim me thinks as BR waited til' late on to give him a run, clearly doesn't trust him enough.
Was hoping to see more from Markovic, so imagine a bench role for the game.

Lallana perhaps, but after playing 120 minutes and a shoot-out, I wonder if he is going to be in any shape?

Markovic will need time. He is a very talented young winger, and yes he IS a winger, but he will need plenty of time and patience shown in him.

One wonders, given the above, whether it was better to just not spend 20 million pound on the kid and keep Jordon Ibe, who is probably more ready for the PL.

I'd expect Lallana to start alright. Not Markovic and not Lambert and not Suso. Borini and Ballotelli to come in for Markovic and Lambert for me.

Suso scored and did ok. I really like him but people are over-stating things.

24 Sep 2014 09:12:27
I would run around for 8 hours a day for those wages

24 Sep 2014 09:38:10
Sean

The real issue here is the Style we are playing right now.
Markovic biggest asset is his pace and would be perfect in a counter atatcking display.
We seems to play the pass and move, keeping the ball for more than a min.
To get the best out of any player you need to play to his strength.
We did not release the ball quick yesterday

Harry, sorry man but I'm not sure what you're on about in relation to what I posted?

The OP was about the personnel for the weekend so I responded on the personnel not the style.

For me Lambert won't start as he has been given very few minutes so maybe Rodgers isn't as impressed as he expected to be but then again Rodgers seems to think Lambert and Ballotelli can play the lone striker role which neither of them are good at.

Why I think Markovic won't start is because he seemed to be more interested in running away from the ball and looking for it. He's not ready so he'll be integrated slowly I'd expect. He ran into pockets where there were 3 players around him rather than looking to run into free space. Then when he had it he got rid of it with nice tidy 15 yard passes mostly backwards. He didn't take people on and he didn't shoot when he so obviously should have. To me this indicates that he's a little over awed with being with us and he's trying to keep things too simple - he'll need more time to settle.

Sean, it's commonly known as 'hiding' and Markovic need not look much further to find another participant in Lambert.

Well said Yvonne, spot on.

24 Sep 2014 01:33:47
Positives? If we need a penalty shootout in champo league or fa cup, players like sakho, manquillo, Lucas, lallana and even mignolet have experience. Might say its not pressure, but when 20 people before you have scored, you most certainly do not want to be the one that does.

Seems odd, but this could be a weird moment for sterling. Missing the only pen and losing the ball for the goal, maybe he will try extra hard in honing his game. Not that he isn't already, but it has been a problem before with kids with the world at their feet.

{Ed007's Note - You don't get penalty shoot-outs in the group stages of the CL.}

Very smart ah? ed7? are you suggesting we will never make it to the knockout stage in cl?

{Ed001's Note - he is a Celtic fan, he doesn't know that there is anything after the group stages.....}

24 Sep 2014 07:59:58
Ed01. You better be careful, ED07 must be pretty mear by you. lols.

{Ed001's Note - he is nowhere near me, I moved to ensure that!}

23 Sep 2014 23:07:34
Here's a question which penalty were people most nervous for? I'll start it off I almost laid a brick when Toure stepped up.

24 Sep 2014 00:43:49
Sackho for me but he did well.

Honestly, both sides were an exercise in beautiful penalty taking. Not very many were saveable even if the keeper gets it right.

Overall I honestly rather enjoyed that, which is strange to say.

24 Sep 2014 01:44:05
Sterling first, then Toure - it was like watching David Batty step up.

;0)

Toure. .

I agree, you could see Sterling was probably still upset with himself and didn't look confident at all. But when Toure stepped up I had to cover my eyes haha.

Red Rum

23 Sep 2014 23:41:12
Difficult one to assess tonight. Far from convincing but a few positives. Any win is only going to help confidence. Another defeat would of added to the negativity and pressure going into the derby.
I thought there was patches of good football, mostly involving Sterling and Lallana. The latter will benefit from the match fitness and seemed much sharper.
Really happy for Lucas who gave his normal 100% and had a solid game.
Rossiter should be chuffed with his debut. He looks so assured on the ball and his positioning and awareness are really impressive for his age.
Again the full backs both had a decent game, I get tired just watching how much mileage Manquillo puts in!
Although, Enrique was at fault for the 1st goal with a pretty shocking excuse for a challenge.
Always a fan of Suso, I'd like to see him get some time in that no.10 role if Coutinho's poor form continues. I thought he did ok in the short time he had, albeit against tiring players.
Lambert looked like he was playing a early pre season game, a little lethargic and flat footed. His touch and passing was also off compared to normal standards. In fact, I thought he has looked sharper off the bench this season.
As for Kolo, I closed my eyes when I saw him lumbering across towards Bamford! It was a young Skertel sort of challenge! Terrible and rash! I'd like to see us making less changes at the back and try and build some partnerships. Kolo shouldn't be part of this continuity though!!
Markovic needs to learn to pull the trigger, a couple of goals will work wonders for his confidence.
Lets see if anything that happens today effects Saturdays team!

I agree that most wins will help confidence but not this one. In fact if there is a typical example for a win that will not help confidence it was the game yesterday, especially because of the late goal we conceded. They were some teams in the past, like Ferguson's United, that were known to always score very late - we slowly becoming the team that every other game concedes a goal in the last minute of the game. We just give such gifts to the opposition. And it is not a coincidence. I was watching us minutes before they scoreed and couldn't believe we had all our team in their half and just two players in ours and these two were also standing very close to the half way line. Why do everyone have to run and attack when we need to keep a score? Very naive. And Sterling with the error at the end and the penality miss will not be more confident (or have fresh legs for Saturday game after playing 120 minutes). Yes it is much better than losing - that would have been disastrous, and we do know now we can kick penalties - that was a very impressive penalty shootout display - I won't deny that. And I think Lallana is slowly getting back to form - which is also encouarging - but other than that, another poor performance. And slowly but surely you get the feeling that with all the issues of confidence and gelling and organisation and time needed, in essence we just don't have the quality. Fortunately for the Saturday game Everton don't look great so far either.

24 Sep 2014 08:13:05
We need to treat most home games as 45mts game.
We should be ruthless in the opening period and score as much as possible with our high pressing energetic attack, Something which we are missing.
You always have to score that second goal to have a control on the match.

Score a couple in the first 45 mts and then see out the game with passing, possession and counter attacking in the nsecond half.

23 Sep 2014 23:30:52
Well I thought the performance was much better tonight. We were creating chances, but we are clearly lacking in goal scorers.

I thought Lallana and Sterling were outstanding. I know sterling made a mistake which lead to the goal, but overall he was excellent.

I also thought Lucas was very solid playing in his favoured position. He kept it simple and kept things moving. It was good to see the ball played on the floor to get the midfielders into the game rather than the usual long balls.

I am really pleased for Young Rossiter on his debut. It couldn't have gone any better for him and it was great to see Jose come back strong.

Finally, along with the positives there were a few negatives to point out. Mignolet is making a habit of making one mistake per game which leads to a goal. I really want him to do well, but he needs to start performing and fast. We really need Coutinho back at his best to provide the ammo for our forwards, and we really need players to start shooting when in good positions.

Let's not take anything away from Boro though. They were very solid and resilient tonight, but overall a good result and a better performance. Hopefully we will have Sturridge back soon to start banging them in.

Red Rum

24 Sep 2014 00:22:13
I would disagree that we created chances, personally. Certainly don't remember any until extra time.

Basically, we were good in our own third and the middle third of the pitch, but there wasn't any penetration until right at end when we decided that the width of the D maybe wasn't where we should've been playing our football. What sticking with me a bit is the fact that the players switched it on straight away after the turnaround in ET in a manner that made it lookg like they could've done it at any time. So either they were instructed to play down the middle or didn't pull their finger out for 105 minutes, neither of which is particularly encouraging.

Still, no point in being miserable over it at this stage.

What we have to keep is the good work at the back (Sakho was a different player tonight) and the ball retention in midfield, and just quicken up the play in the final third. Sounds simple, but of course it isn't.

I thought we made a fair few chances to be fair, but players daren't shoot for some reason. Maybe a bit of confidence lacking. I thought Rickie slowed the game down a bit and looked a little lost. Maybe he's still coming to terms with playing for his boyhood club. I think when Sturridge returns and we have a forward line of him, Lallana and Sterling we will start to put create chances and put them away.

Red Rum