Liverpool Banter Archive February 25 2015

25 Feb 2015 20:04:51
I would be more inclined to go along with those who say Rodgers is stuck in his ways if he wasn't so young.
It's clear by what he has done in previous seasons (advice from Bielsa) and this season (change in formation) that he is willing to adapt.
If he was Van Gaal's age then I would go along with the idea that he is totally inflexible to change but to me he is just a young manager learning his trade at a massive club.
Mistakes have and will continue to be made in the short term but hopefully over time they will become less and less.

25 Feb 2015 22:43:57
Yeah I'm warming towards him more and more, not that I ever disliked him but was easily swayed by comments on this site. I really don't see what is better out there or what benefit in changing him will do. Our football at times has been the best it's ever been. If he accepts a few changes in structure if it's really require then we really could have something special.
It's surely got to the point now with the quality and age of our squad, plus the owners bring sensible and also FFP there are no more wholesale changes and disruption.

25 Feb 2015 23:22:11
Unfortunately for him, FSG do not have that type of time to wait for him to figure things out. LFC is a big club and it is a place where either you learn fast or you get the boot. He`s been here for 3yrs and still the same mistakes are still happening. They have offered to help him and he has refused YET the same mistakes are there. What else do people want the owners to do? Keep throwing money at him and putting us in debt until he figures it out? The bleeding has to stop and the process has begun. To me, it has gotten to a head and he will be held accountable for his blunders. Comparing him w/ more experienced managers who have been around the block and back again is a false argument because he is NOT at their level. You think Mou did not learn from getting the sack at Benfica many years ago when he was younger? Or Ancellotti when he got sacked by Chelsea? There are always lessons to be learnt and mistakes to be corrected. He is inflexible and set in his ways and that as a young manager, is the recipe for the sack if you are not winning trophies and championships. FSG did not give KK time to adapt to the modern game so what makes BR diff? because we play well every half a season and sleepwalk thru the other half? Only stubborn and egotistical managers are set in their ways and even that, they have earned the right to be trusted because they have the CV to prove it. BR doesn`t have a sausage to his name hence, has no credibility on that front. You say he is young and set in his ways. I would argue that even in life not just footie, your youth is when you make mistakes and learn wisdom so as to grow to be a better man. It is not the other way around. FSG will not stand around and tolerate a 4th season of his "set in his ways" BS, you can bet on that. I`m surprised they have given him this much time despite his unforced blunders. Bottom line is either he works within the framework they are trying to put in place (DOF, Defensive coach etc) or he is shown the door because he is not bigger than the club and will NEVER dictate to the owners what goes rehgardless of what ou and I think. End of!

26 Feb 2015 08:34:18
I thought Mourinho had never been sacked before?

25 Feb 2015 17:13:43
Sterling is not equal to Ibe, and vice versa. One has scored 10 goals for us and the other hasn't yet played that many games for our club. Ibe has looked dynamic in every game he has played, but the fans saying "Ibe will be better than Sterling" need to have a reality check. Could he become better? Sure. Have we seen enough of either to tell? Does it even matter? I make the case that it does NOT.

The countless comparisons between the two are beginning to grate on my nerves. Can't we just be glad we have two outstanding young attacking players that are both in good form? I know it's asking a lot, and you will always have 'conversations' because that's what a message board is for, but Ibe is not Sterling, and the progression of either is not reliant on the other. They are seperate entities completely.

25 Feb 2015 17:35:10
One of the oldest footballing discussions in the world is 'which player is better'. There are massive international competitions on the subject, both for individual tournaments and in general in the world. Why because we own them both should we not join into this rich tradition? If you don't like discussions about the relative merits of individual players, I suggest staying away from places where football is discussed because it has always been and will always be a topic for discussion

25 Feb 2015 18:30:41
Ibe is much better than Sterling.

25 Feb 2015 19:20:00
Sorry, but it seems a bit misguided to say Ibe would be better. Sterling has performed for two seasons at the top whereas Ibe is just starting out in the BPL. Don't increase the expectations on a young player by comparing him to a legitimate contender for YPotY. That's really all I'm saying -- of course it would be foolish to disdainfully say that discussing the issue is inherently bad, but all the ones saying Ibe is better just seem misguided to me.

I understand fans will always have the 'which player is better' discussion, but why then, don't we see the Sterling v Coutinho conversation week in and week out? They have been playing for LFC's first team for more or less the same period of time, they've been touted as the future of LFC (along with Sturridge and Henderson) and play the same position.

Just feel fans are putting too much on his shoulders and are bound to lose faith with him if he has an off game or injury.

25 Feb 2015 19:36:44
Have this discussion in 6 months and you'll have a much better idea who is or will be better between Ibe and sterling!

25 Feb 2015 20:30:53
Sterling is better than ibe at present, but ibe definitely has greater potential.

25 Feb 2015 21:29:48
I think it's great both are at liverpool. They can both go as far in the game as they want to

25 Feb 2015 21:38:59
Sterling has delivered more at this stage but both of them are really exciting to have on our side. Pace and guile

25 Feb 2015 22:47:57
Can't we just be happy we have them both at Liverpool ?

25 Feb 2015 23:24:05
When Ibe has played as much as Raheem has and benefited from great players like Suarez, Couts and Studge like Raheem did then we can compare. Until then, this is a false argument and unfair comparison, IMO.

26 Feb 2015 03:57:13
honestly, if your not into the discussion, i suggest that you skip the topic. its easy. i like the discussion, i like to hear different people's point of views. even if i don't join the discussion, i do read on it.

i love the discussion on ibe vs sterling, i am of the opinion that ibe has more potential, but that does not mean i don't appreciate having both of them at the club. so yes, i agree with hijkle, and i would recommend people who are not interested in the discussion to skip it. eds didn't stop the post, i don't see why it cannot be discussed.

26 Feb 2015 07:16:54
Its a page were you voice your opinions if people don't bother nothing will be posted

26 Feb 2015 09:50:49
Sterling is currently better than Ibe, but Ibe is the better long term prospect.

26 Feb 2015 13:20:59
All I know is we have Ibe, Coutinho, Markovic and Stirling who are all top class and all between 19-21.

Im not even including Origi or Ojo either.

26 Feb 2015 15:47:24
I am obviously interested in the discussion so let's consider it case closed on that topic!

What annoys me is not that Sterling v. Ibe is discussed, it's the disregard for Sterling's accomplishments versus Ibe's, leading to a bunch of premature statements like "Ibe is the better long term prospect". It's fine to make that assertion, but why not give a reason for it? Unless, and I fear this is the case for most, you've just been persuaded not to like Raheem because of the media buzz about him not signing a contract/going to Real Madrid.

In all of the comments since my original post, I haven't seen a single person give a credible reason why Ibe is better/equal to Sterling, merely a bunch who say that 'his long term' potential is better. Why is that? Because he's younger? Faster? Stronger? A more well-rounded midfielder? A better passer of the ball?

26 Feb 2015 16:06:36
Coutinho is 23 in June, making him 22 at present.

26 Feb 2015 21:47:41
Quite simple, Ibe is a year younger then Sterling - compare how Ibe is now to how Sterling was a year ago. Apart from which his crosses are better, he rides tackles better and he keeps his head up and is more aware of what's going on around him.

25 Feb 2015 14:58:40
Does anyone know what the completion date is for the stadium expansion? I can't find anything except a vague mention that the new main stand will be ready during the 2016/17.

25 Feb 2015 14:37:07
Hi Eds and reds!

Having read through numerous posts regarding Rodgers' future, a potential D.O.F. and whom we may b interested in for the summer, it got me thinking 'what would be the perfect summer' whilst trying to retain some realism.

Ideally I would like to see the following;
Rodgers kept on as head coach.
Cruyff employed as D.O.F.
Ings and Khedira in on 'free' transfers.
Ilori, Wisdom, Origi recalled and regularly involved in first team squad.
Balotelli, Aspas, Borini, Lambert, Allen, Alberto, Johnson, Gerrard, Enrique, Mignolet all sold/released.
Use funds raised to buy Begovic or Cech and Higuain or Benzema.

4 players recruited, 3 recalled ready for first team. So not major overhaul or transition period required.

Imagine the strength in depth we would have, as well as the potential starting XI's we could use depending on which system deployed.

4 CM's of Henderson, Khedira, Can and Lucas(praying he stays) and 3 out and out strikers of Sturridge/Ings/Higuain or Benzema (I see Origi as similar to Ibe and Sterling in that he can be utilised in any of the attacking roles) would be as strong as anything else in the league, in my opinion!

Also, between now and the end of the season I would like to see Can pushed forward into midfield with Hendo and give Lovren a run of games to see if he has settled now.

I doubt even 50% of this will happen, but if it did I would be one very content supporter!

Would like to read other peoples thoughts and opinions.

25 Feb 2015 15:00:40
So we actively leave ourselves in the exact same situation of not having a viable 2nd keeper in case one happens to the first, but the first being a bit older and more injury prone?

We wouldn't get enough from those sales to buy that lot anyway

25 Feb 2015 15:23:55
Have Ward as the long term 2nd choice. Play him in cup games and give him experience being around the first team full time, we won't know if he is a viable option unless we give him that chance. I only say to sell Mignolet as I believe he is not quite up to the standard we need, nor would he settle for being 2nd choice. One of either keepers would cost £10m-12m roughly. Benzema or Higuain between £30m-40m I would say. I think selling Balo, Borini, Mignolet, Allen, Lambert, Enrique, Aspas and Alberto we wouldn't be too far from the figure required for the transfer fees.

25 Feb 2015 15:47:18
Alberto is playing extremely well on loan. Why would you want to sell him? I don't care for Benzema or Higuain as strikers.

I really wish people would just watch some of Stoke's games before asking for Begovic, he hasn't come close to the performances of 2 years ago when every one was raving about him. He's been at fault for a fair few goals this year, and as a keeper that would improve us significantly.He won't do this.I'd rather stick with Migs, also Begovic turned us down.

Khedira is so so as a DM. Slow, poor reading of the game, not brilliant at tackling IMO, heading weak. He's seemingly only ever available for at best 2/3rds of the season going by his games per season, either due to not nailing down a place or injury.

25 Feb 2015 16:16:29
Don't think Khedira is going to be good in the fast pace prem. Don't need either Benzema or Higuin, but either would be class. Balotelli, Borini, Lambert sold and no Ings would have to happen to consider striker of that level. Although made of glass, Sturridge is our no.1. Origi and Sterling as well as Markovic can play upfront.
Wouldn't just sell Alberto, would want to see him given a chance or a loan in the prem.
Neither GK choice thrills me here. If we could afford the incomings mentioned on top of wages etc, I'd use that to buy one top amazing GK. If any cash left over a CM and LB would be ahead of any forward player. Even then I'd like to see some youth introduction, Rossiter or Wilson, is Chivilla a CM?

25 Feb 2015 16:28:21
Regardless of how well Alberto is playing, would he get in our squad let alone starting line up ahead of Coutinho, Lallana, Ibe, Markovic, Sterling? I cannot see it. He shouldn't have been bought in the first place and I would say he's far more suited to la liga than the premier league. The fact he is playing so well will only benefit us in recouping more of the transfer fee we paid out for him!

Why would you not want a top class goalscorer such as Benzema or Higuain? We have seen this season we cannot rely solely on Sturridge. Do you think Ings (if he signs) or Origi would be able to produce the goods week in week out for a sustained period if DS was to get injured again?

Khedira was a regular for Real and Germany prior to injury, that on its own tells me he is good enough to play for us and would be a better option than Allen. He'd need to prove his fitness, as I have seen one of the Eds state previously, but as a free transfer we would be mad to turn down that opportunity in my opinion.

Healthy debate is what I am after so please keep the replies coming!!

25 Feb 2015 17:11:47
We need a natural goal scorer, last night saurez showed what were missing.

Sterling although he's done ok upfront is not a natural goal scorer and god help us if we think markovic will be.

We are back to we're we were 2 seasons ago, a lot of chances but struggling to put the ball in the net.

25 Feb 2015 17:22:17
Aberto is only doing average. Not getting in the Malaga team most days. Too slow and poor defensively.

25 Feb 2015 19:09:43
Alberto is doing well when he plays. I can't really think of too many top div to top div players on loan that play week in week out. We never really played, cissokho, sahin, moses,, manquillo, athleti don't always start torres. Everton haven't once started atsu in the league I don't think, falcao is barely getting a full game at UTD even when fit, but he's world class(IMO) so i take loan playing time with a pinch of salt.

I don't rate Benzema because I think he's lazy, doesn't close int he final 3rd(which is what we need) I don't think he's a natural finisher, In a league where he's played for Madrid for several years I've always felt he should have achieved a higher return than a goal every other playing main striker.
I personally think if we're gunna spend that sort of cash Falcao may as well be 1st choice.

I will stand by firm on my points on Kehdira. Would just rather promote youth there.

BTW I think Alberto could be much more suited to a deeper role.Watching him play he seems strong, confident, with a great set of skills and range of passing. He doesn't duck out of too many 50/50s I've seen, and tends to give back. I think he could fit anywhere in the midfield (He's also decent at dead balls) I really think he's got a bright future personally

25 Feb 2015 19:54:05
I think a decision needs to be made.
Either Alberto or Texaira.
I would go with Texaira and sell Alberto.
We can't keep both in my opinion.

25 Feb 2015 13:53:08
Hjikle

Sorry mate, the end of my post didn't seem to make much sense, i should have re-read that!

What i meant to say, using the definition of insanity bit, was that a lot of people think that BR will do exactly the same again. I just don't go along with it because i think that's as much an assumption as me thinking he can get it right. It's all opinions though!

25 Feb 2015 12:15:46
What i'm seeing from reading the posts on here is that there are roughly 2 arguments on here on the manager issue.
The first is that some people are just happy now that the team is playing well due to the changes that have been made and would be okay with BR continuing in the job.

The second one is that BR shouldn't have had to make any changes because the team almost won the title last season after these changes had been implemented and it seemed that he already had the correct style to continue on with and challenge from the beginning this season. The assumption seems to be, if he did it twice before, he will do it again. He'll never learn.

I think it was Einstein(or some other intelligent person)who said that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result was the definition of insanity. Most people will be familiar with that expression. So after all that. why do some supporters think BR is nuts? Why is it that he cannot make mistakes and learn from them?

25 Feb 2015 12:21:48
He can learn from them. But history shows thus far that he has not learnt from them, because he keeps repeating identical mistakes over and over. Your own attempt to call people looking for a leadership change works against you mate, because you're calling people who want to keep him insane for expecting that giving him another season, another transfer window, another campaign without someone making sure he's not going back to his old strategy etc and expecting something different to happen when every season has been the same so far!

25 Feb 2015 12:33:47
I think it is down to a few things. I don't think he's foolish. He knows when something isn't working. His arrogance prevents him from admitting he was wrong though until his job is under threat and he has no choice.

He is actually a good tactician and a good, albeit limited, head coach. He needs to accept help in the coaching from somebody with more defensive nous. Most people want a director of football because there would then be somebody with the power to over rule Rodgers when he makes silly changes to the style of play.

He's not nuts. He is just so hell bent on proving that his philosophy is the future that he sometimes suffers from tunnel vision. This over confidence in himself shows badly in his interviews as well.

If he accepts the help he so obviously requires, I think he could do great. Getting him to accpet that help will be the problem. The owners are not going to give him another year doing exactly what he has been doing though because they have nothing to show for their massive investment. The season starts in August, not January.

25 Feb 2015 12:35:22
He's done it 3 seasons in a row. Who wants to try for 4?

25 Feb 2015 12:47:47
To begin with that is not the definition of insanity although for a long time I thought so as well. As far as BR is concerned he has made the same mistakes 3 times so far so it would be safer to assume that he will repeat them rather than learn from them. Would you trust him for a 4th time if he does or doesn't get us top 4?

25 Feb 2015 13:39:17
Steph, Swishcleaner

I might be accused of ignoring the evidence, but i tend to discount the first season because of the changes that occur with personnel and the upheaval that comes with those changes.(I know the argument would be, why do the changes have to cause such interruption? it's just my opinion)

So then i would say just judge him on the following 2 seasons. I don't think that's enough to say he will never change or learn.

And EMS, you may very well be right that it's an attitude thing, the arrogance to want to prove his way works. Again, i'd say this is something that can change with experience and help. We agree he's not an idiot, so i believe that can happen.

25 Feb 2015 14:44:40
If we had won that title last season would people still be on Rogers back. Or would there be some slack given to him. Did we not realise when he come to Liverpool that we were getting a very young an inexperienced manager that was bound to have ups and downs. ? For me, conceding 3 goals in 15 minutes to palace and an unfortunate slip was down to the players, not Rogers. we should have had that title in the cabinet. i do get where some of your arguments are coming from towards him. i also understand our expectations. but going from charlie adam and joe cole to Coutinho and Henderson, Andy Carroll to Daniel Sturridge or Spearing to Emre Can. ok we have also had some very bad moves which most clubs could put their hand up for that too. they may not be in the same ordinary financial position as us but were clearly heading in a good direction albeit with some bumps in the road. i understand a new manager is very possible. but unless its Guardiola or Simeone, which is highly unlikely, i would rather stick with Rogers with a possible DoF and keep the little bit of stability we have started to build.

25 Feb 2015 16:12:13
Yeah Rodgers had skrtl in defence last season so yes I would blame Rodgers same with Johnson in defence.

25 Feb 2015 23:40:14
I don`t know if he is nuts or not. What we do know is that he is arrogant, stubborn prone to making the same mistakes over and over again and based on recent history, unwilling to change. Those are the facts. Now that FSG ae about to reel him in and hold him accountable for the above-mentioned, he had better have a good response to the tough grilling he would recieve because remenber, because FSG don`t come to Anfield every other week, does NOT mean they are in the dark about everything. They know everything and even more than we do here. Hence if he is unwilling to adhere to the new structure being put in place gradually withing the club, then he should recieve his walking papers ASAP because he is not bigger than LFC and will NOT dictate to the owners (who are his bosses BTW) what goes.

24 Feb 2015 23:27:33
Regarding the FFP and the Summer Eds; will we be allowed to reinvest our money from player sales into new players or will this be an issue?

Assuming we can, will the current transfer committee be disbanded under the new club hierarchy/model?

Tks.

{Ed002's Note - Selling to buy will, I would expect, to be fine. The transfer committee was formed to help Rodgers and I don't see why it would need to be disbanded.}

25 Feb 2015 12:54:48
Ed 001 expects Rogers to go if he doesn't achieve top 3 win a cup ride the grand national winner and cox the boat race. Slight exaggeration I know but he keeps saying about a DoF which I agree with him Rogers won't accept.

The committee like every club don't get it right ever time, just look at fergies record, ours after a settling in period isn't bad, certainly better than the past managers, how many full backs.

Ed002 you seem a lot happier with our lot I believe like the majority, settled squad with a few additions no rebuild needed.

{Ed002's Note - Right Pete.}