Liverpool Banter Archive June 25 2017

25 Jun 2017 22:53:44
Has Emre Can not signed a contract yet purely due to current international duties? Is he expected to sign a new deal with us or is it just not going well?

26 Jun 2017 00:48:59
He's nervous about his future, he's behind three other players for a midfield spot and that doesn't include wiji or any other midfielder we bring in so his position may be even worse.

I suspect he's waiting to see who we sign before making a decision about next season.

26 Jun 2017 02:46:54
I feel like its becoming a decision on of whether we want Henderson or Emre as the number 6 moving forward. If that is the case, its a tough choice as i think Henderson is a more consistent player at the moment (and hard to replace the captain) but Emre has the potential to far surpass Henderson and become a top class player. Not sure what i would do.

26 Jun 2017 04:19:55
I really hope we don't get anymore midfielders. As long as we sort out the fullbacks, I will be happy. Can is young, talented, hard working and a vocal leader. We should not lose him.

25 Jun 2017 21:17:00
Unrelated to any transfer gossip, but Melissa Reddy eh? She's lovely.

25 Jun 2017 21:23:04
She can read a tabloid! But yea who cares 😘.

25 Jun 2017 21:29:10
But shallow and a nice distraction from all the nonsense.

25 Jun 2017 21:54:03
Sounds like someone has a little crush on Ms. Reddy ;)

25 Jun 2017 18:25:59
Question for Ed001,

Although he's 30 now would you still take Scott Dann? He always made that palace defence look better than it was especially under Pardews reign.

{Ed001's Note - no, too many injuries.}

25 Jun 2017 17:35:25
James Pearce of the ECho is saying that Klopp wants to sign a left back to compete with Milner. I would have thought that he would aim higher in that position. We need someone to replace Milner as a left back, not to compete with him.

25 Jun 2017 18:02:15
Could be diplomatic language? 'Compete' with implies whoever comes in would have to work hard and wouldn't automatically start, and it also implies that Jámeś has had a good season and shouldn't necessarily be benched by a new signing.

25 Jun 2017 19:39:40
Last season the main LB target was Ben Chilwell and this season, it was Ryan Sessessgon. So yeah, it seems like Jimbo Pearce is right.

25 Jun 2017 20:44:48
To be fair Milner (stats wise) was one of the best LB of last season in europe. I think he was in the Top 5 as well acording to the CIES football observatory.

25 Jun 2017 16:43:06
Left back has to be priority next for us. Some quality options seem beyond us at minute in

Mendy. Too big a financial package.
Tierney. No interest in leaving Celtic.
Sessenogn. Fulham won't deal with us.


With this in mind why aren't we persuing Lucas Digne of Barca? Not wanted at club, still young, and is a good left back.

He was a highly regarded youngster before he moved to PSG which was about three years ago I think. Digne with Milner as back up would work for me.

25 Jun 2017 17:11:50
Digne wouldn't be a bad shout.

25 Jun 2017 20:20:10
Digne is very poor. Has regressed this season. Barcelona went rid and along with Matthieu and most of the average players Barcelona have bough in recent windows (Umtiti, Digne, alcacer, etc) he isn't good enough.

On what basis are you sayin he'd be a good signing because his performances have been really very poor.

25 Jun 2017 21:03:32
Poor defender and has been let go by clubs in the past 4 seasons in Lille, PSG, and Roma. He is now at Barcelona but is second choice to the perenially awful Jordi Alba who can't defend against a pole. There is a reason for all these happenings with Digne. He is poor and not good enough hence, no thanks. I'd rather keep Milner.

25 Jun 2017 22:34:38
Hector bitte 🏆.

25 Jun 2017 22:35:42
Umtiti? They want rid? Thought he was pretty good.
Digne has proven he cannot make it at top clubs, so wouldn't want him.

25 Jun 2017 15:55:51
I actually think the Ox is a good player for klopp, and if imagine plays like lallana in the middle. This will be useful in the games where we can press high, think it'll work In Europe and he big games. Not sure he's got quality to push for a starting berth in the games where we struggle though, but, if we have mane or Salah out or need a rest, we don't have pace out wide. I'd welcome him.

25 Jun 2017 21:09:56
Well Fencey, I cannot imagine him playing like Lallana cos in reality which is where we all live in, he not fit to lace Lallana's boots nor does he have any of the raw skill and technical ability that Lallana possesses hence, I would not want him here as he is not good enough and has not shown that he can be in the past 4 seasons at Arenal. Now if Klopp wants to work with him in spite of his obvious faults, I will defer to Klopp on that but it does not mean that the Ox is suddenly a good player cos frankly, he is not.

25 Jun 2017 22:40:25
What about playing Lallana where Lallana plays? Besides even if you were correct what would Ox do with the ball once he won it? He has no intelligence with the ball. £25-£30m is an utter joke and only a deal at £8m would be a good purchase. That would be as a squad filler.

25 Jun 2017 12:23:34
Ings is a forgotten man. Yes not the most flashiest player but a fox in the box. We could have sold him in January. Were rumours of £20m being rejected by Liverpool.

I was not that excited when we signed Ings but he started showing good signs before his terrible injury. Going to take a while for him to get back to full fitness but we require movement from our strikers and that is one thing he most definitely can contribute.

Our attack is not the issue. We have plenty of players who can score and assist.

Repeating myself over and over again, we only need 2 quality fullbacks now and then our squad will be complete.

25 Jun 2017 13:56:19
The lad has a lot to his game, shame about the injuries. Hope he's given a run in pre season.

25 Jun 2017 14:52:35
With Solanke coming in, Studge likely to remain, Origi's potential and Bobby as likely first choice striker I can't see a place for Ings. Unfortunate as I see him as a good squad player but where will he come in?

25 Jun 2017 15:18:02
Honestly, if we can't get a clear cut improvement on our current defenders I would prefer to see Lovren and Matip supplemented by Gomez. Purchasing a defender for 70 million pounds is just insane to me, especially when there are good options available within the squad. What we need is a strong left back and Milner can take up Lucas role in the squad. Would like to see Can signed long term and I think Ox is a good option, both as a project moving forward and a current addition to our squad. I could easily see Klopp inserting him into the game for say Clyne against a team parking the bus. If Henderson and Sturridge can return to fitness you have those two plus Lallana and Origi on the bench. That's a title chasing squad, even without the additional signings, which would ideally be Keita, Mendy. Of course they are priced out of a move either by wages or the club doesn't want to sell. For me, Moreno, Markovic and Sakho must be dealt with and removing them would give us plenty of room to invest in defense.

25 Jun 2017 11:56:55
With Ox, VVD and potentially Mendy of interest, have we got our eyes set on a striker?

{Ed002's Note - LFC have already signed one in Solanke and have the likes of Sturridge, Origi, Ings and Firmion available someone would need to leave I would think.}

25 Jun 2017 12:08:12
So that is 5 players for the striker position. I do not see how a striker is priority. We are not being seriously linked with any either unless there are those who believe Mbappe or Aubameyang is set to join Liverpool.

Gullible fans.

25 Jun 2017 12:13:21
There is a false perception that Sturridge was injured a lot last year, he was available for 75% of games but wasn't picked. Klopp likes Firmino as a striker as he works his arse off. Can see Firmino/ Salah/ Mane being our front three as first choice, which to be fair should have plenty of goals as there is a variety of skill, speed and guille in there.

25 Jun 2017 13:17:35
I a certain that for a fair chunk of that 75% Sturridge was not fully fit.

25 Jun 2017 14:50:50
He was being eased back by Klopp due to his injuries.

25 Jun 2017 11:07:29
If Klopp does add Ox to the squad then our problem of lack of pace will be resolved and we will have plenty of attacking options.

It has always been said, ones best form of defence is attack. Ox and Salah will add many more assists and goals to our squad. Ox also helps out with homegrown quota.

25 Jun 2017 11:19:13
Home grown quota to me is the main reason.

25 Jun 2017 11:27:17
I think that is what our business is pointing too. Klopp has clearly identified a lack of pace in our team and he is not wrong. One reason we struggle to score goals at times is because we take far too long to transition from defence/ midfield to attack and let the opposition get back in numbers. Salah, Brandt, Malcom, Ox, Mendy, Sessegnon, Keita and even VVD to some extent are all players whose first thought is to drive forward without hesitation and they all do it at pace. Looks like Salah, Ox and possibly Mendy may be the only 3 of the primary targets who we land but at least you can see a focused pattern to our targets. Unlike under Rodgers where we would fail to sign a left back, and sign an attacking midfielder instead!

I can see slight a change in our style next season. I think we will still look to press to win the ball high up or in midfield, but then when we win it back go straight for throat instead of passing it around looking for an opening. We will perhaps see less possession and more direct running at the opposition. This is not new to Klopp as it is exactly how Dortmund won the title.

25 Jun 2017 11:28:09
Max,
I agree as I believe Ox would be used in more advanced roles.
He is a direct player and we were lacking the drive from mid when Lall and Mane were out.
He solves some things as directness and cover for advanced roles, both of what we were lacking for several months last season.
Is he the best option? Probably not.
But he is Klopp's option apparently, and I believe it's a good one.
Best,

25 Jun 2017 11:51:47
I for one wouldn't moan about signing the ox. Definitely a player that can improve our match day squad not staring xi but will definitely give options off the bench. I agree that he fits klopps style of quick powerful attakcers (mane and salah as examples) so don't think it would be a bad signing.

25 Jun 2017 12:01:43
MK We don't struggle to score because we're slow in transitions - that's evident in our games against top 6 sides as they are the only ones ( with the exception of man utd) that really came out to play against us. its when teams put 10 men behind the ball and show little ambition is when we struggle. i think that's when full backs/ wing backs/ wingers are critical in beating a man and getting behind defences. clyne managed loads of times but has appalling end product and crossed into the first defender, milner managed it too but then cut back in to cross it on his right foot which gave defences time. Ox offers a verstile option on the wings and in mf if necessary. he was also one of the few arsenal players that came out of the season with any credit. still remember him throwing a hissy fit agains munich when he tried to close down yet the rest of the arsenal team weren't interested in putting in the effort.

25 Jun 2017 13:11:28
Swish, we don't seem slow against the top 6 as they attack us more than other teams leaving space. Against the others we are slow in transition and don't move the ball quick enough which is the reason why they manage to get everyone back behind the ball,

You don't necessarily need fast players to move the ball at pace but it certainly helps with pressing quickly up the pitch.

25 Jun 2017 13:52:34
That's my point jack, we transition very well- when there is space. it's not like we try to play a slower transition against worse teams Doesn't matter how quick you pass the ball if there are 10 defenders in front of you, hence the importance of the wingers/ full backs and their end product. Ox can do that effectively ( and also has speed he can use when there is space)

25 Jun 2017 13:57:35
Hey swish, ihad never heard that about Ox versus Munich. THe boy has gone up in my estimation with that type of attitude.

25 Jun 2017 10:50:18
I don't understand why everyone is complaining about spending x amount on a certain player.

A it's not our money
B we don't know the budget (ignore the papers they just speculate)
C going into the summer we knew Klopp was looking at an extra mid (Keira or ox), a left back, a winger (Brandt or salah) plus someone who could ideally cover both sides. We weren't looking at VVD until we knew he was interested in us so rather than whinge about spending so much on one player why not just let the club buy who they think necessary and we will see at the end of the transfer window if we have filled the areas required.

If we get to the close of the window and we haven't purchased a left back, then we can complain about buying players and not focussing on an area that stevie wonder would know we struggle in.

25 Jun 2017 12:17:51
Whist we have great ability and can beat anyone on our day with our best team available, we have struggled if injuries kick in, players go on international duty etc. Also, a pressing game is demanding and will catch up on players eventually. The key to playing a pressing game is to win back possession quickly and keep possession, so that you are not running around like lunatics for 90 minutes. Eg, Barcelona play a pressing game but don't have to do it for long because they win the ball back and keep it.

The other thing with playing a pressing game, particularly if you have potentially a lot more games to play, is to keep players fresh by rotation. To do this without a drop in standards you have to be able to bring quality players in, hence the pursuit of the Ox. We have some quality young players but, in my opinion, only TAA is ready to come in without a drop in standards. The others will have to raise their games even more to get into the squad. Hopefully, Woodburn, Wilson, Ojo, Brewster. Ejaria and Grujic will step up to be challenging for the season after next. They might not all make it but even 2 who prove good enough will be a big bonus and save us a lot of money on transfers.

This is why Klopp wants the Ox. He is an established England international and can come in to a variety of positions without weakening the team. Don't forget last season, when we were absolutely murdering Arsenal at 4 - 1 up, he came on, scored and nearly got them back into the game. Everyone seems to view potential signings as, where will he play? Will we have to leave Can or Lallana or Wijnaldum out to put him in? Those days are gone, they are all squad players who will rotate if we have to play 60 or more games. A strong bench, to bring on gamechangers in the last 20/ 25 minutes is vital, and can win you are lot of points.

I believe this is where Klopp wants to be at, if he is looking to progress to winning trophies.

25 Jun 2017 10:27:09
This Ox deal smells a bit like Gini last summer - like Gini, Ox is an advanced attacking player that his club is not actively but open to selling, will be converted into a central midfielder, and possibly surprise everyone.

25 Jun 2017 11:12:19
Robin,
I got a feeling Ox will be competin for the more advanced roles. Perhaps as competition for Couts and the wingers.
If I remember correctly Ox gave us a lot of problems when he played in a Mane-like role, so I believe he would be a good addition as cover for those positions.
What are you're thoughts on this?
Best,

25 Jun 2017 12:21:50
Ed001 said that Ox is the alternative to Keita, so I think he's being lined up as central midfield option.

25 Jun 2017 21:28:30
And what did the Ox do the rest of the season after that first game, AnfieldBlossom? Can you remember cos I definitely can't. Comparing Gini signing to Ox's is a false equivalence cos contrary to the Ox, Gini was already a very good player and highly rated before he even came to the PL and my only issue was that I did not know where he would fit in based on the role he played as a box to box midfielder with Newcastle but Klopp gave him the Joe Allen role with licence to get in the box and score goals, a role that was diff, to the one he had at the Magpies. I also questioned his attitude at Newcastle cos he ot benched by Rafa due to a lack of commitment.

As for Ox, he simply is not good enough and the facts are there to back it up. Now if Klopp thinks he can get him to perform then I will defer to him but the fact that the Ox has been poor overall at Arsenal does not change.

25 Jun 2017 10:10:49
This may just be blind hope, but given we would have spent big on VVD and Keita which are unlikely due to different reasons, and the fact our midfield alternative is potentially half the price of Keita would we potentially re-evaluate how much we are willing to spend to get mendy? To be honest left back has to be the priority and if losing out on VVD and Keita meant we could get the best lb option available at the moment I wouldn't be too disappointed.

Cheers.

25 Jun 2017 08:56:10
i understand klopps interest in ox he wants someone with epl exp to add to midfield who is a bit versatile too. but surely there are better players than ox in the premier league. for eg gylfi sigurdson, etienne capoe, mousa dembele, hell bring back joe pirlo allen!

25 Jun 2017 09:00:31
none of those guys have the versatility that the Ox could bring.

25 Jun 2017 21:31:23
What versatility, Faith? A jack of all trades and master of none? The only versatile player in the PL who is capable of actually being good at almost any position he players is a certain James Milner. Ox is and will never be as versatile as Milner.

26 Jun 2017 11:36:53
Jamie Milner is in his 30s, would you have said the same thing about him at 23?

25 Jun 2017 08:01:32
Eds1 do you think we have any chance of getting vvd I no we said we had ended intrest in him buto rumours we still interested?

{Ed001's Note - if we are willing to pay a ridiculous amount of money, embarrass FSG and take the punishment from the FA that will follow, then yes we will sign him.}

25 Jun 2017 08:43:23
Thanks for the reply eds001 shame vvd would have been excellent for us in my opinion. Do you think we will still sign a central defender or stick with what we have i just think that lovern is full of mistakes and klavan isn't good enough?

{Ed001's Note - I don't expect one now. I don't think we have time to get anyone over to Blackpool to be wined and dined with preseason coming.}

25 Jun 2017 08:45:58
Not worth the hassle. Just give Gomez a chance or look for cheaper alternatives like Nastasic or even Koulibaly who are better than Lovren.

25 Jun 2017 08:48:36
I do not think some understand that with VVD the FA will most likely take the matter of tapping him up further if we go ahead and attempt to sign him even through the right channels. Liverpool made it clear they dropped interest so to avoid complete disaster just avoid the situation.

Unfortunately things have been ruined for the player and Southampton.

The biggest problem for Liverpool is that there is absolutely no room for bargaining over VVD with Soton so if Soton say £90m and LFC walk away then it will most definitely end in tears for Liverpool. There can be no such thing as making a thumbsuck bid for VVD. It will be on the basis of asking Soton how much they want and paying up. End of the story. If Klopp values his job then hopefully FSG have put their foot down on the situation. FA are sitting and waiting for us to make our next move.

25 Jun 2017 09:08:09
You don't think we will sign a CB full stop ed?

{Ed001's Note - not now, we were focused solely on him, I don't think we will be looking elsewhere now until that situation is done with completely.}

25 Jun 2017 09:47:09
Ok mate I hope were not daft enough to pay the rumoured 70m. Would rather us go all out for Mendy, a LB should be priority.

25 Jun 2017 10:15:48
Ed do u not feel we will do wat it takes as we have left vvd in a big hole and I think u said it would be better to do that stand by him take are medicine as if we don't future players will be very weary of joining us cheers.

{Ed001's Note - no, I feel FSG have made it clear that the club needs to step away.}

25 Jun 2017 10:36:46
I really hope that is what FSG have done Ed001. The club needs to now stop making an arse out of itself. Think we have redeemed ourselves slightly by getting the Salah deal done as there was notion from Roma that we tapped up Salah so that is all we needed at this stage.

We do not need anymore drama. FSG cannot control what the employees of the club do though and their ruthlessness will once again shine through if the drama of the VVD ends up at their doorstep again in this coming window. They will have no choice to make heads roll and it will be fully deserved by those who bring the club into disrepute again.

25 Jun 2017 11:22:50
Eds with that fact in mind, do you see Sakho being an option next year if he makes up with Klopp or has that ship sailed a year ago? Can't help but wonder what he'd have been like with the calming presence of Matip (as well as Milly) beside him in the season just gone
Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - He has not been part of Liverpool's plans for a long time. They are trying to sell him.}

25 Jun 2017 17:29:49
Still belive ask Southampton what they want pay it and deal with the consequences (the clubs fault anyway) then we ain't craping on a player and to an extent pay over the odds to apologise to Southampton.

25 Jun 2017 05:55:42
Hey ED001.
With all the noise going around on safe standing, what is your view on the issue?
Should standing be brought back? Or is it too much of a risk still?

{Ed001's Note - it should never come back, there is no such thing as safe standing and you only have to ask paramedics about the amount of crush injuries they have to treat at events where crowds stand, rather than sit. People see it as the answer to all the issues of lack of atmosphere, even though it is not. Until stadiums stop being full of people who are too busy watching the game through a screen, or texting their mates etc instead of just getting involved in singing and shouting, the atmosphere will continue to be crap. It would have a far stronger effect on atmosphere if it was impossible to get wifi and mobile phone signals inside!}

25 Jun 2017 06:09:18
which means itll never happen ey ed? i don't see that changing for some time really, it is the internet age after all.

{Ed001's Note - exactly. Sadly people would rather watch someone else living a life on a screen, rather than actually going outside and experiencing it for themselves.}

25 Jun 2017 07:16:32
The worst one of the lot is people filming games, I just don't understand it. Never been able to see the logic behind it.

{Ed001's Note - nor me mate. They are actively watching the screen, rather than it live. What on earth is that all about? People are so desperate to ensure other people know what they have been up to, they forget to actually enjoy the moment while they are there.}

25 Jun 2017 08:53:16
People going to any live event and filming it are morons and missing the point of actually being there, which is being there in the moment, not being able to relive it somewhere else later.

25 Jun 2017 09:51:47
Some of the best atmospheres I've been in have been at all-seaters.

25 Jun 2017 10:37:48
BVB's yellow wall is a massive all-standing spion kop stand and I never hear any bad things about it?

{Ed001's Note - just because you don't hear them, doesn't mean a thing.}

25 Jun 2017 10:47:03
And yes, all-standing can indeed partly solve the atmosphere problem. You get a better atmosphere when groups of mates are all together, something much more possible with safe standing as you're not allocated specific spots to stand in.

{Ed007's Note - You are still giving a specific seat number and spot to stand, it's not just a free for all where people just stand where they want. You get allocated a seat number just like anywhere else in the ground and unless your mates get season tickets next to you you're relying on the generosity of others to swap positions to let you all stand together.}

25 Jun 2017 10:47:38
Me too Ron. Remember a panto of Peter Pan, starring Vanilla Ice as Captain Hook, as a personal favourite!