Liverpool Banter Archive November 25 2013

 

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25 Nov 2013 22:12:09
Having just seen Ashley Westwood's spectacular effort against West Brom, a thought occurred. How many times does Lucas do that? Joe Allen? Granted, Henderson has scored a few over the two and a half years he has been at Liverpool, but all of them together do not merit a £20 million price tag. And Gerrard, for all his fantastic assists, hasn't scored a goal from open play for 30 odd games. Coutinho is the only exception, and even he seems to go missing in games occasionally, and isn't really a goal- scoring mid. But aside from the lack of attacking threat, none of these players seem to offer much defensively. Lucas' work rate, which has always impressed me, seems to have faded. He appears sluggish, and often just gives up and let's his opponent go. Henderson, although he has improved, does little more than shadow his man, and Gerrard's engine isn't what it was. Surely the whole midfield can't just be made up of 'cogs'? When compared with the Silvas, Hazards and Yaya Toures, the likes of which we are coming up against week in week out, our midfield screams out for quality. If we make more shrewd signings in January, we could be looking at a potential title challenge. If we do not, perhaps another season of transition.

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Kinda needless post mate. Not to be rude but to say Lucas is not working hard or defensively sound is kinda absurd.

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That was Westwood's first goal for Villa.

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I think that your underselling Lucas and Henderson there. You are correct that the goals return from our midfield just isn't good enough for a title challenging side but at the minute we aren't yet. If we want to be, barring the emergence of a reinvigorated Joe allen, we must go in for a midfielder in january. However, I think there is a massive line between challenging for the title and mid-table. Seeing Barkley run through our midfield did have me worried. I would like to see a defensive midfielder brought in, at least on loan, hopefully this results in Gerrard being pushed further forward to compete with Coutinho, who will take a while to return to his best after injury.

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In Lucas' case it's not about how many goals he scores, but about how many he prevents the opposition from scoring.

Sergio Busquets scored 1 goal in 31 games last season. Does this mean he is not good at his job?

Red Rum

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We must go all out for Westwood in January.

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Liverpres . priceless, priceless .

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26 Nov 2013 07:53:46
Red Rum.
Your point Contradicts, I think we need a player whos much more than just a protector.
Sergio Busquets is playing at Barcelona.
If Lucas is just another who stops the incoming goal, then what's the center backs doing in our team.
Lucas is a part of Midfield, breaking up ofm play, the attack should start from him.

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Harry,
Defensive midfielders are defensive players hence the term "defensive" midfielders. Pretty self explanatory don't you think.

Your point regarding the centre backs is irrelevant. The Job of the defensive midfielder is to protect the back four which he does very well. When in possession he will pass the ball forward to start off an attack which he does very well.

Just incase you didn't understand my point about Busquets, he is a defensive midfielder who doesn't score many goals (as is Lucas). that's what you call an example.

Simple stuff really Harry.

Red Rum

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The attacks do start from him? if you watch the games then you will realise that you need a player like lucas to release the passes to his other team mates to go forward, you saw how as soon as he was taken off on saturday everton had about 5 counter attacks with about 5 players running at our 2 CB's

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Despite a sizeable section of deluded fans thinking lucas was world class, the chicken has come home to roost, he just isn't good enough, simples

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Do you remember when Lucas was out with his long term injury and fan's were praying he would be back fit again. When he did return to action he instantly had an impact. Remember?

As they say you don't know what you've got till its gone and when Lucas was injured fans realised how important he was to the team. It just shows the short term memory of some fans.

Red Rum

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26 Nov 2013 09:47:37
Ok. So from fellow fans One point is clear. Lucas is doing a pretty good job. Gerrard cannot be dropped, So that leaves us with hendo or Allen to be dropped in faovur of a new ACM?, or CM? or DM?
What exactly fans want in the jan transfer window?

1. If we are buying a strong DM, then lucas should be dropped.
2. If we go for a CM, then either gerrard or Hendo should be dropped.
3. If We buy an ACM, then countinho would be pushed wide.

We cannot have bender, or waynama or Busquests along with lucas in a team?

Lucas won't score, gerrard doesn't score, Allen isn't scoring nor henderson is scoring regulary. Then whose supposed to be the scoring midfielder?

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26 Nov 2013 09:49:48
Lucas gets bullied by a top class midfield combo, (Especially the top 5 clubs), Our Midfield was terrible against villa (Second half), New castle (first half), Arsenal, southampton, Everton.
So whose Responsible? {Ed001's Note - the team is.}

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26 Nov 2013 09:59:56
Lucas needs to play, Gerrard is Gerrard, hendo has great engine and should be on the pitch, countinho is skill master, suarez and sturridge is a must.
Can we field 12-13 players on the pitch?

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26 Nov 2013 10:02:17
ED01, Precisely the 3 men in the midfield?
Its neither the strikers nor the Defenders who controll the match.
which means Gerrard, Henderson, Lucas and Allen are responsible?
forget Johnson and Enrique, they are terrible in defending.

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Harry, anytime you have seen Lucas overrun in the midfield is largely due to the other midfielders not doing their jobs effectively. Lucas is an integral player in the current team and IMO is one of the best DM in the league.

When new players (hopefully) arrive in Jan, Lucas should not be dropped. In the current line up, he is better at his job than the rest of the midfield, including Gerrard - (please don't mistake that for me saying Lucas is a better footballer than Gerrard, I'm simply pointing out that Lucas is better at his designated role within the team).

Ideally, the two players I would like us to sign in Jan are Xabi Alonso and Pastore. Instantly makes are midfield miles better in terms of passing quality and creating chances, as well as bagging a couple of goals I'm sure. Despite his age, Alonso's quality is unquestionable and I think Pastore, whilst expensive, could be an invaluable member of our starting 11 (if he wants to be playing in the WC next year he needs to be playing more football.) I'm not sure how Rodgers would alter his formation but it would be a good problem to have as a manager. The idea of alonso helping lucas break up the play whilst also having the same passing capabilities as Gerrard is truly mouth watering!

Great site eds, Ed 002's comments are fantastic, and again, these are only my opinions fellow reds. PEACE

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We need an attacking midfielder and a centre midfielder.

My personal choices are Cabaye and Koke.

If we play the 4-2-2-2 formation, we will have 2 attacking midfielders in Coutinho and Koke, behind them will be either Lucas and Gerrard or Lucas and Cabaye.

It is not about just having a strong starting 11, we also need a strong bench too. Look at when we brought Sturridge on against Everton, he scored the equalising goal. We need a bench with players who can make an impact in a game. Therfore, drop players to the bench whether it is Henderson, Gerrard etc. all the best teams have world class players on the bench.

Red Rum

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26 Nov 2013 10:35:18
Red Rum and ROB.

Kool Points, I agree to some extent. But Pastore and alonso are not going to happen, forget that, Cabaye would be a shout and would cost us 15 mill, Koke will not happen and if do, it would be at 20-25 mill.
Thers no chance we have that sort of money without sale.
Hendo or Allen should be sold then.
If we are in top 4 by Dec End, Then why not go for two top class players and comepte for title rather than this top 4?.
I don't think we need a huge squad for the 19 games starting from Jan.
But Its clear we need two top class players in the midfeild, the current gerrard, Henderson and Allen are not good enough.

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26 Nov 2013 12:47:09
Gerrard and Allen are not performing good enough. Lucas does his job superbly and Henderson has arguably been our best player this season. His energy keeps us in the game at times and has actually created far more goals than his assists tally alone would suggest. However Gerrard gets caught time and tme again both positionally and in possession in dangerous areas. The only thing Gerrard adds to the team right now is set piece precision and long diagonals. Push him further forward, and he will get goals and be able to deliver more killer crosses like the one in the dying minutes of the derby. Leave him deep or in a central role and we are just accomodating him because of his status. Allen is still very young, and seems to be better as an impact sub at the moment. Bringing him on for Gerrard against Fulham worked really well and allowed us to maintain control of the midfield at the stage of the game we usually lose it completely. We need to persist with the 4-1-2-1-2 we used to dismantle Fulham. It allows us to control the midfield, and accomodate Suarez, Sturidge and Coutinho. However to do this we need 4 new players. A striker, two technically proficient midfielders (1 who scores goals and one who is powerful and athletic with the ability to play a holding role when required) and another versatile wing back who can play either flank. The wing back issue may be resolved by Flanagan, Kelly or McLaughlin so that is not urgent right now, despite Enriques clear fitness issues. Next Summer we should look at that position more closely. But in January, we need another striker to add to the current 3, Suarez, Sturridge and Aspas. Mitrolgou is apparently a target. He reminds me a bit of Yilmaz. Then we need two midfielders. The goalscoring midfielder needs to be good at linking up play, and good at finishing off his own attacking moves. I'd love Mata, but I really don't see it happening. The power house would likely be a squad player, who could come in either instead of or alongside Lucas against stronger (physically) teams. Diame would be a cheap option. Ultimately, It is the goalscoring midfielder who needs to be the star signing as the other two will be squad players. We need our own Mata/Ozil. Of Course Gerrard and Allen still need game time, but if we are playing with 4 central midfielders, that will happen. Where does this leave Moses, Sterling and Ibe? Well they either need to adapt to more central players, wing backs, or strikers (or accept squad roles). Ibe is actually better as a fluent forward (like Suarez). All our midfield lacks is mobility and composure. Although our pasing was crisp against Everton, nobody (Coutinho aside) had the confidence to take there time on the ball and pick an option. They just looked rushed, and lacked penetration. All our goals came from set pieces!

YNWAdam

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I think the funds are there for the right players. Remember we made offers in excess of £20m for Costa and Mkhitaryan in the summer.

Koke, who has already scored 2 and assisted 9 in 14 games this season would be well worth the £20-25m. Him and Coutinho feeding the balls through to Suarez and Sturridge would be deadly.

Cabaye at £15m is a no brainer. He has the quality to operate the midfield. He is a similar player to Gerrard in terms of style but he is younger and fitter than him therefore able to help with the defensive responsibilities as well as attacking.

Red Rum

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Why have the tactics been completely forgotten here? 4-3-3 as Brendan played at Swansea has done at Liverpool and did do vs Everton. Does not allow for a large Midfield contribution in the goal department.

Xavi=455 games 55 goals-goal every 9 games roughly

Iniesta =316 games 31goals -goal every 10 games

Busquets= 158 games 5 goals -goals every 30 games.

This are from league games. You rely heavily on the front 3 to get the goals. Hence why henry eto messi and messi villa pedro were lauded!

As for the 3-5-2 formation.I hate it. I'd understand playing it if we had Carrol, not so much with Suarez or sturridge. It was used by Rodgers as a necessity. It's too defensively minded for me. It doesn't allow for midfield dominance, you're pressed out to the wings and will struggle to get the ball infield. You will never get allen, hendo, gerrard or lucas scoring much from this formation. I can see why Rodgers used it though, it's a great total football formation which is what he's trying to instill in the squad.

If you want goals from multiple players you're looking to play 4-1-4-1 or 4-2-3-1

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26 Nov 2013 15:40:32
YNWA Adam.
With Aspas in our ranks, you want another striker?
A LW is a necessaey, an ACM is also an option. but combine this would cost us 40 mill.
I fear BR would bring two from spain second division. and would be on for the future.

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26 Nov 2013 16:35:00
Macca indicated that the club were actively trying to sign Alonso, and he's is usually reliable. I would say Alonso is the better, cheaper, and more realistic option in comparison to Cabaye. The last time we tried to buy the magpies best player, they stung us for 35 million, remember?

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25 Nov 2013 19:53:46
Is Jack Dunn injured?

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25 Nov 2013 19:30:02
dave240876, totally agree with you, but no matter
what you say the DISCIPLES of BR will always
shout you down.
The midfield is woeful and devoid of any ideas, the only creativity we have is COUTINHO who is
supposed to set the tempo for us but only does it
against the teams who give him space, he goes
missing in action against the top teams,
as for the defence we've still got the same problems as last year, we don't stop the crosses coming in
and any cross into the area is like an hand-grenade,
it normally ends up with a save or a goal, and that's
after spending 25m in the summer on centre-halves.

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So what are you proposing, sack BR?

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Anything positive to add wembley? If we have a midfield totally devoid of any ideas then BR must be a genious eh? Because we are 2nd in the league and with three games coming up that are very winnable i'd take that mate! If we were top and five points clear you still wouldn't be happy! The man can not catch a break! if we are still in the top four the other side of xmas I feel he will have done a fantastic job up to that point! Why don't you be constructive with your criticism and give us a suggestion on how the midfield totally devoid of any ideas can be improved. Also, while your at it, tell us how the defence can be improved! To many football genious' on here and for a side totally devoid of any ideas, i'm happy with second in the league up to press.

Ian the red

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We tried signing an attackin midfielder but we failed in getting the right player would you rather Rogers to buy someone for the sake of it or weight for the right player rather than waist money imagine we got HM true the middle Costa William I would rather we wait and sign someone Rogers wants!!!

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IAN THE RED, I take your point but
surely you can't be happy with that
midfield, it doesn't create and doesn't
protect hence the the reason why
the crosses keep coming in and teams find us easy to play against
except for the teams down the bottom, as for your call that were
2nd in the league, were also 1 defeat
from falling out the top 4 that's how
close it is, s o the defence well the
finger should be point at BR and the
defensive coaches because at the
moment were conceding for too
many goals and teams don't have to
do too much to score against us.

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I'm very happy with our league position but Wembley does have a point. We still cannot defend set pieces, this weekend was a prime example.Not too many goals from Midfield either.

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We play a zonal marking game guys! It's what all Rodgers/Spanish type managers do, you keep saying Johnson shouldn't have been marking lukaku but lukaku was in his zone, so he had no choice, Everton prob studied this an put lukaku there. We're having trouble because we zonal mark. Plus skrtle is one of the worst zonal markers in the league, he got beat out by Barkley for there first goal. The stokes of this world are old fashioned and play man on man marking, that's why there so strong, we need toure back in for skrtel asap, this was part of our downfall last season. {Ed001's Note - we do not zonal mark. Lukaku was not in a zone at all, that is just a lie.}

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We don`t play zone, we play man to man. A center back ALWAYS marks the striker. That is the fundamentals of defending a corner. And to those still slating BR, we are 2nd in the table and BR is still undefeated against the bitters. Not bad for a plonker of a manager, eh?

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What an absurd opening post.
Why is anyone having a pop at our midfield? We got out-played by Arsenal's midfield at the Emirates, but apart from that our midfield has carved out dozens of chances.

This is a TEAM game. Our midfielders don't play in isolation, they are part of an eleven man team.

Stop having a go at the manager too, be grateful for the start to the season we've had.

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Yes, we're second in the league which is fantastic, however, we really have to tighten up at the back. For instance, Lukaku's header, nobody from our defence attacked the ball, nobody closed him down for the shot he scored.

On numerours occasions, we were very exposed once our attack broke down in the final 3rd. If it wasn't for great goal keeping, and some poor decision making from Everton, we could have been in trouble.

I have faith in BR, am just being realistic. You saw what City did to Spurs.

Everton are not City, Chelsea or Arsenal

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26 Nov 2013 09:52:24
Ken Aguero,

With all the respect and love to the player Aguero, I would like to say till now, We are being carried by SAS. We actually have a 0 midfield at away agames (or games when the oppostion start pressing)
Henderson is the only player who runs behind the oppostion and press, Gerrard doesn't do it. and its neither lucas job

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26 Nov 2013 09:54:19
Nicky D

Lukaku is just quality, you simply cannot stop him from scoring, I don't mind us conceeding goals, Unless we control the game and score a dozens.
We do score. but we doesn't control the game.
set pieces and corners are inevitable,

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26 Nov 2013 10:07:22
Then only thing you could care is stop conceeding silly fouls at the edge, sily freekicks, silly back pass leading to goals and sloppy howler.
Best Strikers are meant to score, You cannot stop them, If we had the best midfield to protect the back 4 and control the game, Lukaku would have never crossed the half way line.

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26 Nov 2013 10:59:42
Ridiculous post. Doing better than 18 teams in the league and people are bitching.
Yes, we have some issues within the team, but until Rodgers comes out and says 'That's it, we are the finished article, the hard work is over' he's got my vote.
He knows the issues, and I have no doubt he's working on it.
Nobody is coming into the job and fixing every issue instantly.
He's made Anfield a tough place to go again, he's got us playing consistently well, that'll do for now. When we stop I improving come back!

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Harry mate,

Whilst I agree 100%, Lukaku is a class act. If you look at his two goals though, we did not do enough to stop him. The very basics a defender should be doing is attempting to block shots and attack balls that are swung in. Neither of these were done. When the ball was passed to RM, he was surrounded by red shirts and nobody closed him down - basic defending.

Re the midfield I do agree with you. We've looked good against average teams, Arsenal was a different kettle of fish.As stated, too often Everton broke through the midfield resulting in two, three on two situations in favour of Everton. And yes, we need to stop giving away silly free kicks in dangerous areas.

The acid test will be against City, Chelsea and Spurs all coming up very soon.

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26 Nov 2013 11:28:48
Nicky Mate

Spot on.

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25 Nov 2013 19:19:36
When Steven Gerrard lifts the World Cup in Brazil, having just relieved Liverpool of their 24 year wait for a league title, I'm sure he will gracefully step down as England's most capped outfield player with 119 of them!

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Oh how I'd love one of those to happen. whilst watching it in a hot tub with Scarlett Johanson and Jessica Alba. While morgan freeman provides match commentary

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That would be the driest match commentary ever.

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Roland-dinho - You just described my perfect day down to the finest detail!

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'if carling turns dreams to reality'

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26 Nov 2013 11:17:57
lets keep it football related roland-dinho, barry white marella frostrop on commentary, fellow Liverpool fans caroline woznacki and lana del rey in the hot tub watching gerrard lift the premier league trophy, would even swap all the hot tub stuff to win the premiership that's how badly most of us want it lol.

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25 Nov 2013 19:16:21
This weekend highlighted the shocking lack of consistency regarding referees.
It has to be improved.

What does everybody think of allowing coaches to challenge decisions similar to NFL.

Do people think that would work.

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Never thought i'd say this but we could learn a lot from rugby with some of their rules in my opinion like how we can go to the 'big screen' to make the big decisions and totally random but in rugby the referees do get a lot more respect and if anyone argues they get a sin bin from a yellow card, these rules would help football as players would be much much less argumentative. then again that's just me

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Different sports Jackoo, if Skrtel puts all of his fury and frustration into a tackle he could well be sent off in todays game. With this in mind players must release energy in other forms, although arguing with the ref isn't the ideal way to do it. Also as rugby is very broken anyway the videoref doesn't interfere with play that much but in a game like football it will disrupt the flow. I don't see why a videoref can't make in play decisions though.

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I can definitely see what you mean, but as a defender myself I wish the game was how it used to be where contact was allowed, haha! no but I think if not that but something has to be done to how much respect the referees get, this is just one way that popped into my head.

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Fair enough, Busquets doesn't score goals, so Lucas doesn't need to either. But Barcelona have a whole arsenal of goal scoring midfielders to choose from, so there is no pressure on their defensive midfielder to chip in, but who is our goal- scoring midfielder if it isn't Lucas.

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Hi I played rugby for most of my life and the big difference is that the ref is in charge and this is reinforced by your own team. I only saw 1 incident where a player winged at the referee and remember our prop shaking him until he agreed it was a mistake. you could use the video ref in football like the assault on Sauarez as the ref had stopped the game for at least a minute it was a free kick so would it have delayed the game for so long to pass to a fourth official. the biggest problem I see in football is that players surround the ref and get in his face, he should take out the yellow card and give one to each player surrounding him, that would stop teams from doing that. but that won't happen as the refs are so badly thought of.

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25 Nov 2013 18:30:35
My thoughts on the derby.
I thought it was a fantastic game of football and that a draw was a fair result given what happened in the game.
Mirrallas should have been sent off which would have swung the game in our favour. Also if Joe Allen had of scored his chance then it would have been difficult for the blues to get something from the game.
However, they did have 5 one on one chances to score and played their part in the best game of the season so far so all in all a fair result.
The one thing I want to see for the next game against Hull is a new centre half pairing of Toure and Sahko. The last time we played against Lukaku was against West Brom and he destroyed us and got 2 goals. At the weekend he again got 2 goals against Skertel and Agger.
I approve of Rodgers philosophy of "if you play well then you play the next game" but this also has to work the other way.
We have two very good CB's sat on the bench waiting for a chance to play. Sahko and Toure were brought in because Skertel and Agger were dodgy at times last year and I think this is the perfect opportunity to have a look at Toure and Sahko together. This is the only combination that we have not seen as a pairing and I would like to see that in the next game.

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I have to agree with you jonnybarnes on the CB pairing

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26 Nov 2013 11:31:50
i have to agree I don't think agger and skrtel r a good pairing especially against the likes of lakuku r drogba type player, now a player I see giving them a hard time would be negrego of city I hope sakho is well established in the first team by the december games and imo probably with skrtel r toure as even the great carra has reservations on whether agger and sakho could play togeather.skrtel has not played that badly so far but would toures experiance and leadership be something we need just like last year carra came in and steadied the backline.

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25 Nov 2013 17:49:01
So although we have brought in 3 new centre backs this summer, Agger being tracked by Barcelona and Skrtel by Napoli. Plus with Mignolet in top form, we have conceded more goals than any other team in the top 5. At the moment it's not a problem because of our two machines up top but when Suarez leaves we'll need to tighten up at the back both from open play and definitely from set pieces. Obviously buying more centre backs is out of the question I guess so what's going wrong and how do we rectify it Ed's? Would love to hear your thoughts. {Ed002's Note - That's a Dear Brendan question.}

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The answer is simple. Skrtel and Agger are not 'talkers' they need someone with them.

Let's get it right, when Toure was playing at the start of the season we were tight at the back.

If Toure was playing against Everton he would not have let Johnson mark Lukaku. Never in a million years.

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MATTYB7, BR is going to need to be a magician because let's fair he is
no master tactition, we are still
making the same mistakes as last
year and the team is very open and
easy to play against, top, top managers build from the back first,
BRENDA started by building from the front. you wouldn't run a
bath without putting a plug in
would you.

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If Rodgers came in and sold Agger and Skrtel there would've been an uproar. We were in desperate need of attackers, rather than defenders and rodgers has so far addressed that.

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Wembley, I don`t understand. Last year, we had only one fit striker and the attack was addressed in jan. Nowe we have issues in the middle which will be addressed. 2nd in the league and lovin it.

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26 Nov 2013 09:55:38
redohio.
we actually solved our issue in the middle 2 seasons back. when we bought allen, countinho, alberto and henderson.
we simply cannot afford to run this cycle, {Ed001's Note - those players were all bought in different transfer windows, only Henderson was 2 seasons ago.}

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25 Nov 2013 17:03:48
I'd love for us to sign Kagawa from the Mancs. Or mata from the Chavs. Or Dembele from the spuds. Or Dzeko from the Sheiks

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25 Nov 2013 17:37:21
I'd rather we signed Messi from Barcelona. Have you heard of him? Much better player and about as likely to happen, imo.

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Dzekoz really?

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25 Nov 2013 14:37:01
Been a while since I've been on.

I wanted to get an opinion and also some idea of a suitable long term replacement on someone.

It's probably been on a lot peoples minds especially more this season about Steven Gerrard. He is obviously still a fantastic talent and in a few games has shown he still has the drive and determination to do well at the highest level.

Personally, I feel (and this tends to be after international games) he is looking more and more tired and not as able to get around the pitch as much as he used to. This was bound to happen eventually but I suppose the opinion I ant from others is would it help him prolong his club career if he knocked international football on the head and as and when the time comes to retire from club football too who does everyone feel would be an ideal and more importantly achievable target.

Bit long winded I know but still, I'd like to throw it out there,

Thanks as always for the hard work and dedication you all put into this site eds and also Macca for putting your head on the block more times than Henry VII's wives.

Cheers

Gouldy

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He is not going to retire from England duty now he has the captaincy and a chance at setting cap records, presumiably he is having too much fun to just walk away .

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Gouldy, watch Villa v WBA tonight, check out Fabian Delph if he plays, he's quality in my opinion, young, knows the league and wouldn't break the bank.Think he may turn out to be a player but again, that's only my opinion!

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Mate Fabian Delph wouldn't give us much more than Henderson already does. I think that it will be a combination of players that will replace Stevie G, rather than one individual.

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Not suggesting for one minute ''Calmdown'' that Delph could replace Stevie G, not many could and doing so will not be easy or cheap.My first choice would be Chelsea's Ramires but Gouldy did specify an ''achievable target''.Maybe with a bit of time, imagination and with some lateral thinking by BR Jon Flanagan could become that beast, after all what made Stevie G the player he was and still is for Liverpool is that fact that he's a scouser!

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25 Nov 2013 13:02:02
Ed 001, I just read an article where Rodgers talks about Sturridge and his lack of desire in training at times. I think that has been evident in some games also when things are not going his way - his work ethic seems to drop when the team is struggling. Alternativerly, Suarez seems as if he is always trying his best till the final whistle, what stands out with him (apart from his obvious ability with the ball) is his desire on the pitch. Yes, he has gone overboard two or three times, but he seems to have a winners mentality.
Coming back to Sturridge, I know he has scored goals since he has become a Red and credit to him for that, but taking into account his overall performance since arriving do you think he has the mentality to be a top class player (his talent is not in question) and shoulder the responsibility up front when he becomes the main man?
Thanks. {Ed001's Note - tough one. I have always doubted his mindset, it is too greedy, too selfish, which can come out in training too, as it clearly has. It did seem he had realised that himself and picked up on why he was not getting first team football at Chelsea. Now he is beginning to lapse back into bad habits, which is a worry for some many reasons, especially as it will mean he lacks basic fitness during matches and suffer lots of niggles, which we are already seeing happen this season. I think this is his last chance saloon, Brendan is clearly pointing that out to him and he needs to up his effort or he will end up drifting away and not making the most of his huge talent. Personally I am worried he will be looking back in twenty years time thinking about what could have been, probably he will be blaming injuries for holding him back, as he seems to have not yet realised that it is up to him to act. So no, I don't think he will ever be the player he should be, though he is still excellent as he is, he just seems incapable of grasping the requirements to reach the very top.}

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Thanks for the reply Ed. I forgot to sign in before. {Ed001's Note - no worries, I just hope he proves me wrong and becomes a legend for us.}

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25 Nov 2013 14:50:09
ED01 Spot on. that's Inch perfect.
I agree, And I have said this before, If he isn't in the score sheet, then he is the most selfish person in the whole world. Now don't shoot at me. The last time I saw him assisting suarez is long gone.

Even the best player in the world would have lost his temper in the pitch after that Tackle (For ex. Rooney, or even Gerrard)
What a professional is Suarez, The guy just doesn't stop playing. Some footballers are just meant to play.

Suarez Quoted once : " I started playing at the streets in Uruguay, When My parents didn't had to fund me, For me football is my life and I would play anywhere. "

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Don't forget harry that people were saying suarez was too greedy

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25 Nov 2013 18:38:01
Old big Years.

yeah I have seen those post. and believe me. all those now are praising him.

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And the praise is well deserved, let's hope sturridge can change his game but for now he's scoring and that's enough to be happy about.

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Ed, I think u`re being a bit too hard on him. I agree studge is rough around the edges BUT he can still be a very, very good player. Great player? Time will tell but let`s support him and hope he pans out. I do agree that he needs to show the hunger and determination to be an all-round player because scoring goals alone is not enough to be a great player. {Ed001's Note - you are probably right, I just think he has so much potential and can be one of the best strikers in the world. He is already right up there with the best in the Prem, but he needs to keep working at it and not forget that he has a golden opportunity with us.}

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Ed1, we don`t agree on everything BUT we defo agree on this one. Studge is a player that seems to never have had a coach who genuinely cares about him and REALLY wants him to succeed. Hence, I think he`s still trying to figure things out and learning how to be a real pro and have the hunger, desire and humility to succeed at the top level. His talent and potential are undeniable BUT work ethic is something that is cultivated to the point that it becomes a mindset. He needs help in that regard. Look at LS. He grew up a fighter with the will to succeed that is both rare and useful if well-channeled. He is the opposite to studge. He needs our help and support. He has the potential to be a great player like LS. LS was a good player when he came here. Now, LS is top 5 easily in the world. LFC made LS what he is today because we played to his strengths and supported him but most of all, he has the determination, work ethic, and desire to be the best. Studge needs that kind of mindset to be great.

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25 Nov 2013 13:55:57
Thought we played ok but still think we need a genuine winger that can score goal as well as a attacking mid that knows the business and can get goals.

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M Salah and Will Hughes you mean?

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25 Nov 2013 12:29:39
Great game at the weekend. At 2-2 it would've been easy for Rodgers to put on a defender for Lucas and play for the draw, but instead he opted to put on Sturridge and go for the throat. Were it not for the poor decision to let Johnson mark Lukaku, it would've paid off. That is where we missed Toure. There was no organisation from set pieces. I said before the game that if we played Agger and Skrtel against Lukaku, he'd make them look silly.

I hope Mirallas gets some sort of retrospective action. He's practiaclly admitted to it being a revenge tackle. I liked Martinez before yesterday. But complaining about Gerrard moving the ball 4 yards is laughable considering his team were lucky to end the game with 11 players. Then he claimed Gerrard elbowed Barry when the reply clearly shows he was watching the ball and his elbow didn't even get within 5 inches of Barry (this complaint despite the fact Mirallas split Hendo's head open with an elbow!).

I hope Rodgers can now see that Skrtel and Agger are not a good partnership (I could've kept a clean sheet agianst Fulham!), and that Gerrard stuggles with the tempo in fast paced games. He has an excellent delivery, but that aside he wasn't great. Shout out to Flanagan and Mingolet. Both were oustanding.

With regards to Allens miss, yes it was a howler. Suarez missed an easier chance though and nobody is speaking about that. A wise man once said "Sure Roger Hunt misses a few, but he gets in the right place to miss them!".

YNWAdam

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25 Nov 2013 14:52:05
Skertel and Agger or any half decent CB would be good, If your DM, CM and other midfielders infront of you are Rock Solid.
Unfirtunatly with Lucas infront. Even Kompany would struggle.
Get a new DM and see what does skertel and Agger does. {Ed001's Note - that is ridiculous and shows how little you understand that side of the game. Lucas is one of the better defensive midfielders in the game, but he is trying to cover space left by the rest of the midfield being non-existent in the defensive third. Unfortunately, it must be said, Gerrard is the biggest culprit. He doesn't get back in to cover spaces and he is not pressing the ball up the pitch after the first five minutes of a game. We can't keep a high line if the opposition midfield are going to be given time and space, especially if our defenders are lacking in pace, like Agger and Skrtel. It is time Skrtel made way for Toure again, we have not looked anything like as good since he got injured.}

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25 Nov 2013 14:53:40
YNWA Adam

Mate, Forget his miss, He wasnt even on the pitch for me, Was he playing? We had 3 man in the midfield and a 20 year old Barkley outplayed all three with ease. can you believe that? {Ed001's Note - Barkley? You mean the Barkley that kept giving the ball away by trying to do too much? Yes the lad has ability, but he was not good yesterday. Far too many highlight reel moments and not enough actual good play from the lad.}

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25 Nov 2013 15:16:09
ED01, Where was Lucas when we played against Arsenal?. I mean Its my personaly view, He is a decent good footballer, But he is very slow, Infact he acts like a 3rd CB for me.
Now If you compare him with any of the top DM, or even with in the EPL, you would see the difference.
Wilshere, arteta, flamini, yaya toure, fernandinho, sandro.
We are poor at set pieces, It won't change with defenders. {Ed001's Note - Wilshere is not a DM, nor is Arteta and Toure does not play as one any more. So comparing him with those would be idiotic and show a complete lack of understanding of football of the kind you display constantly. He acts as a 3rd centre back? No he does not, he sweeps up in front of them and that is completely different. Where was he against Arsenal? He was being left on his own to counter the entire Arsenal midfield, then you have the cheek to blame him! Saying he is slow is the biggest load of crap ever when you put forward Arteta, who is barely as fast as a snail, as your opinion of what is great.}

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25 Nov 2013 15:18:05
Ross Barkely had a fantastic First half for Everton, and that's his first derby and first season with Club.
Ed can you go and recollect what was henderson doing in his first season with us?
Barkley in 3 year time would replace gerrard in English team.mark my word.
If he was poor then then what were our midfeilders doing against barry and macarthy? {Ed001's Note - it is not his first season with the club. You really are a piece of work Harry. A real 'supporter' of nothing but being a little bitch. Henderson is nothing like Barkley, how are they comparable in any way other than so you can bitch about him like the whining little girl you are? How many big money moves has Barkley made to join a struggling team with lots of pressure on him? When he made those moves, how did he cope? Come on Harry, bring a proper comparison or shut up, because you just make yourself look a tit over and over again with your hate towards certain players.}

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Eds I think you are wrong here.barkley is a young gerrard.
barkley will be the best player in england in a few years time.
i agree he wanted to do too much but that's age.
its a shame he plays for everton they will never sell him to us, he is the player that can fill gerrards shoes.
he will proberly end up at chelsea/man u. {Ed001's Note - he is nothing like Gerrard. He is a very good player for the future, but he did not have a good game against us. Thankfully. Young players, especially players getting the hype he does, often have those kind of games. The kind of game where they try too hard to make the difference and end up constantly turning the ball over to the opposition. I don't know where I said he wasn't a good player, it seems you are all too keen to jump on things you have made up in your head.}

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Skrtel have been out standing agger is annoying me for the first time ever this season but we have 4 very good center half's we need to find the best pair and move one on

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Ed001, what would be your thoughts on putting Hendo into the current Gerrard role? He's an engine in the middle of the park {Ed001's Note - Hendo has great workrate, etc, but he is not for me the right kind of player to play that role. I would prefer to see him alongside Lucas, helping to break up play, as well as getting forward, an old fashioned box to box midfielder. For me, Coutinho needs to be moved centrally to allow Gerrard to be rested. I just don't think Hendo is creative enough, nor does he have the range of passing, to play in there without someone like Coutinho there.}

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Why not agger ed.skrtel is really playing well and shouldn't be dropped. {Ed001's Note - Skrtel is playing well, but he is simply not good enough in any aspect. He is not quick enough, he is not strong enough, he is not good enough in the air and not positionally good enough. As a back up to come in and play, he is ideal. As a long term first choice player, he is just not good enough on the ball to make up for his defensive deficiencies, unlike Agger. It has to be Skrtel to make way and Toure has to play. Toure offers pace, power, aerial prowess and quality on the ball.}

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When I saw the team sheet I was worried firstly with the defence, showed last season against west brom that skrtel and agger can't handle lukaku. Thought toure should've be brought in to play alongside agger (like sakho but is still settling and like having agger to bring the ball from the defence). Have to say fair okay to flano, was worried when started but proved me wrong. My other worry was sturridge not being able to play. Think saurez is much more effective when sturridge can stay up top and give him freedom to get on the ball and affect the game more, whilst sturridge has a great ability to get a goal, just think we struggled to get saurez the ball. Can't agree with Allen's miss being compared to saurez's header, yes he should score the header but Allen's chance was much easier and would have killed the game off (or could have squared it for saurez). Don't think we should get on Allen's back as hasn't played much, still rate him as a player and everyone makes mistakes. Laughed at Martinez's comments esp after mirallas interview today, makes the challenge look even worse after what he said and even more that it happened while he was walking off a knock (sry live conspiracy theories). Had to day thought hendo was great, esp towards the end of the game. His tracking back helped us immensely. Next home game against a 'weaker' side would really like to see 4-2-3-1 with sturridge up top hendo/Lucas in the midfield, coutinho playing AM ans saurez and aspas either side. Think would have great technical ability and movement with those players

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25 Nov 2013 19:01:32
Rule No. 1. The Boss is always Right.
If it was a Liverpool player Instead of Barkley. the first line would be. ". Common its a derby. emotions. blah blah. give him a chance. he did god in the first half. and was ok in the second. "
My God.

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Harry, I suggest you listen to ed on this one because he knows EXACTLY what he`s talking about. SG is not disciplined enough tactically to play as an effective CM because he gets caught out of position a lot which is why Lucas is exposed and outnumbered, hence making him look ineffective. I posted hear last night that the good DM`s don`t need to run around and tacl because they are intelligent enough to read danger and snuff it out b4 it even develops. Lucas is very good at this. When he gets caught out is like ed said, when he tries to cover other players` blunders. Against Arsenal, he was drowning because he had NO help from teamates. Lucas is great and there`s a reason we don`t play well when he`s out of the team. As for Barkley, he has talent but is overhyped to the point of laughter. Running w/ the ball and losing it afterwards is nothing to be impressed about. He`ll never be like Hendo because Hendo has shown he can handle the pressure of a big move to a massive club. Barkley plays for everton, nuff said. Not saying Hendo`s better BUT Barkley is playing in a favorable environment while hendo gets criticized every week by the media and deals w/ the pressure of expectations. Ed 1 is right on this one.

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26 Nov 2013 10:17:05
Redohio.

I take your point, Gerrard should be dropped, But that would effect the club badly. You have to sub him every 60 mts home or away. He has been pretty poor whole seaosn.
But there is not point in buying anothere midfielder in Jan If you are not going to bench gerrard.
Lucas is a good player, But he is not my pick from the best in the PL. Sandro, flamini, arteta, Yaya toure.
regardign Barkley, common mate, If it was henderson your opinion would have been different, The lad is quality and in 3 years he would be a super player, mark my words.
And FYI, You can have a check with ED025, regarding this.

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Harry, I am very capable of making my own conclusions w/o consulting with any ed, 1 or 25. Back to our discussion. Comparing Yaya Toure to Lucas is unfair because yaya is fundamentally more talented and physically as well as athletically gifted. Very few are better than him. But Flamini, Arteta? You must be joking. Not in a million years and if they were that good, why are they not in their national teams while Lucas will likely make the BRAZIL squad for the WC which is no joke as you know. Lucas is wonderful at what BR asks him to do and that should be good enough. If he needs replacing, get some one potentially BETTER like Medel or Sandro (who I like very much). I will have either of them tmrw BUT Flamini or Arteta? Get real, bro. As for Gerrard, BR has a problem very week as it seems he has to play him because we all know he can`t be benched if he`s playing badly. He`s not built for that which is why rafa played him on the right or behind Torres to alleviate him of defensive duties. However, SG had a poor start to last season and then finished strong so don`t give up on him yet. As for Barkley, the kid`s got talent BUT he`s no hendo. Hendo does not run w/ the ball aimlessly and then lose it in a derby because he plays within the system. That`s called tactical discipline. Hendo has already made the step up to a big club and is growing up and improving especially tactically. Also, Hendo has the temprament and work ethic to play a role in a big club which is why BR plays him. Against Fulham, the kid had a blinder and in the derby, he did what he was asked i.e press high, hunt for the ball, and track back to keep the balance and shape of the team intact. That`s called tactical awareness. That gets you far in football. Hendo`s so far ahead of Barkley in that regard that Running w/ the the ball and showing some flashes of skill with no consistency during a game is what kids do at the playground. Not what pros do. Even Coutinho who`s more talented and gifted than Barkley plays within the BR system. Barkley needs to learn that first before we can discuss how good he is or can be.

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25 Nov 2013 12:13:33
Eds.good point gained in derby now feel we must take maximum points out of games vs hull, Norwich, west ham if we do then will be sitting nicely in a good position for our tough games in decjan spurs city, Chelsea, come on you redmen ynwa.

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25 Nov 2013 12:45:55
If we can take 9 points from our next 3 games, we will be on 33 points with 15 games played. That means the next 4 games against Tottenham, Cardiff, City and Chlesea would only need to reap 5 points for us to maintain our 2.0pt average, and keep us on target for a 76 point (and therefore a top 4) finish. A win and two draws is not too much to ask if we want to be considered a top team. Cardiff should be a win, Tottenham are actually beatable, and City and Chelsea have not been at all consistent this season. The next 3 games for us are must wins as they will be the points that allow us to stay within touching distance of the top. Also, it is our last easy run of 2013. Where we are at Christmas will have a psycological effect on the team, and an effect on the level of players we can sign in January. Go into January in the top 2/3 and people will take us seriously. Go in at 6th or 7th, and it'll look like same old Liverpool.

Rodgers is doing a great job so far though, regardless of what Ozone and friends want to think. December will be a hard month though, and if we come out on the other side still looking good, it will be the making of some of the younger lads (Hendo, Allen, Sturridge, Sakho and the suprise package, Flanagan). Football is 10% skill, and 90% mental strength.

YNWAdam

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BR is a very progressive manager w/ great ideas. He will make his mistakes and I`m happy w/ that provided he learns from them. He will always have my support because if he succeeds, we all succeeds. Ozone and the rest of haters and planks who want him to fail because they would rather see him fail than be wrong about their suppositions can go support another team. I will never be part of a portion of our fan base who constantly root for our players and coaches to fail.

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25 Nov 2013 07:46:52
Hai Eds. Great work and Good Mng to all of you guys.
I was watching the Manchester United game, and If that wasnt a red card for rooney, Then what's a red card?
Or is it only for Luis Suarez? {Ed002's Note - Whatever happened was nothing to do with Suarez. Try and avoid the stupid comments.}

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All I can say is the standard of refereeing is terrible, two matches which should have had reds didn't (rooney & saurez) and then Wes Brown (haven't seen it but from what I've heard) didn't deserve to get sent off. That's 3 matches heavily influenced from poor referring, more annoying is that the two that weren't were clearly red cards. Only the end of the match on sky but apparently medal should of had a red as well. Annoyed that this could be fixed so easily, could even just give the fourth official an iPad with a live stream and it would sort most of this out {Ed001's Note - to be fair to Medel, the bit Sky missed out of the build up sees Fellaini elbow Medel in the head, after Smalling has a clear dig at him. The ref had a word first off, after Smalling's dig, so Fellaini took over and clearly swings his elbow and catches him in the head, blatantly and viciously as we all know he likes to do. Medel was silly to react, but he should not have been the only one getting red carded there.}

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Saw that myself ed and fellini head butts medal too {Ed001's Note - I wasn't sure if he did head butt or just motion as if to do so. They were clearly targeting him and quite nastily so. Probably because he completely outplayed every single one of their midfield. He won't have had an easier game in a long time, oh wait actually his last match for Chile was probably easier thinking about it!}

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ED0001 Brilliant comments ha!

Rooney, medel and Fellaini were all lucky to still be on the pitch. Can the FA take retrospective action? I'm not sure what this new rule allows.
The Brown redcard was a joke. {Ed001's Note - I don't know, the rule seems to be made up on the fly and has yet to be explained properly. This coming week should show us exactly how the new rule will work in practice, if it works at all.}

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Ah as I tried to say only caught the end of the match and saw the rooney replay. Just annoys me refs are so poor, especially with players with a reputation (eg. Fellaini's constant elbowing or youngs diving or Stokes grabbing and pulling players during corners). Though from what I saw Medal looked a good player and uniteds midfield looked weak just hope van persie doesn't get fit soon {Ed001's Note - Medel is top class, I still think we missed out on him, he would have been the bite we have been missing for years.}

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Cardiff may have a job trying to keep hold of Medel in the Summer.
I presume he has a clause in his contract if they get relegated too.

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Maybe your right ed, what do you think of the mancs this year, do you think we can finish above them? i'm trying my best not to get carried away with our position and I think if we can hang on until January and maybe Rogers can find another signing like he did with the keymaster and sturridge, the skies the limit. {Ed001's Note - I think that Moyes will slowly drag them down and hold them back until he is removed. I would be disappointed if we aren't at the very least challenging them for 4th, as I really can't see them doing much more. They are light years behind City and Chelsea as a squad now, though that is not the fault of Moyes, he is simply not a good enough manager to make up for it. The players simply aren't performing as well for him as they did for Fergie. The only reason it will be a struggle to finish above them is depth of squad. They have a much stronger squad than we do, we don't have any real cover for our players, other than in defence. Well, other than left back where we are still woefully short of options.}

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I hear ya ed, let's hope we can get to January and strengthen then, pity suso is out on loan but i'm hoping it will really bring him on leaps and bounds.

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25 Nov 2013 06:57:27
Is anyone else slightly concerned that one of our biggest problems last season has not yet been rectified. our lack of goals from midfield. BR said the following on Joe Allen 3 days ago.
" Joe is a wonderful technician. He's not going to be someone who is going to get 15 goals a season - that's not his game."
Unfortunately it's not hendo's, lucus or gerrards game either?
All teams need the type of player that is good in possesion, breaking up play, pressing.But a midfield full of them?
I hope BR also see's this problem and looks to strengthen in jan. Aresenal are the benchmark at the moment look at their midfield five that started against us without Wilshere.
ozil, rosicky, carzola, arteta, ramsey. full of creativity and goals.
Dave

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25 Nov 2013 09:48:08
But Are we supposed to Field 12-13 players on the pitch. Provided gerrard. hendo, lucas and so called mystry ACM starts with countinho suarez and sturridge?

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I think we're the highest scorers this calendar year?

I don't think we have issues scoring goals.

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Do I really have to spell it out?
We will not finish top 4 unless midfield is improved.
All the teams that finish ahead of us will have the same thing in common goals from midfield.
Gerrard, Allen, Henderson offer little going forward other than gerrards set plays. It worries me that LFC supporters can't see this or are just reluctant to comment.
For me we need to look at long term replacement for gerrard, OUR intrest in mhkhitaryan shows the club are looking. henderson and allen are too similar and if either is going to play the ball carrier role then they need support from a creative minded player who can score goals. {Ed001's Note - such as, maybe, on the off chance, we could possibly make a bid for Coutinho you mean? I reckon he could do that job in the team if we could get him. Oh wait, we already have him!}

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RVP basically won united the league with him goals the midfield bearly chipped in so please explain how we have no chance with SAS up front?

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25 Nov 2013 14:55:41
Dazy Boy

Spot on, SAS are winning the Top 4 for Liverpool this season. Our midfield is 0

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Could be worse harry, could be united's midfield :)

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25 Nov 2013 18:42:24
OLD Big stars.

UTD would drop out anyway. no chance of them in the top 4. their midfield is -1

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25 Nov 2013 00:56:54
It would make sense for us to be in for M'Vila to be honest: a strong, fast central midfielder is something we lack, although Hendo is almost in that category, when compared with arsenal, city, Southampton and Chelsea- at the moment out closest challengers and they have Ramsey/wild here, toure/fernandinho, wanyama & ramires.
I have a feeling he could be great for us as BR's signings of talented youngsters with something to prove in Januarys haven't exactly let us down!
Oh and finally has Pellegrini seen Suarez recently?! Aguero is a class act but Suarez is on that level alongside Ronaldo, Messi and Ibrahimovic.

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25 Nov 2013 09:49:58
I agree. And being suarez bigest fan, If I ever trade Suarez it would be Aguero, He is the closest I have seen for suarez, Aguero is sheer quality, Absolute brilliant footballer, and much more than a striker. But would he cut well without yaya toure, navas, nasri and Fernandinho?. Now that's the only question.

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Clearly u have NEVER seen Mvila play on a consitent bases because a strong, fast, central mid is everything Mvila is NOT. M`vila`s always been overrated and that`s why he plays in russia. Nobody would touch him with a ten foot pole.

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25 Nov 2013 00:01:06
The SAS is incredible, Mignolet is right you can be almost sure they would score. I mean Suarez's freekick was as perfect as it gets. That's why I think it's so sad that we concede goals from set pieces so easily. We have to sort out our defence, especially defending set pieces. I would have thought after his brilliant performance for France, Sakho would start at the derby for sure. I thought him and Skrtel or even a Sakho, Toure pair would have been the best option vs. the blues. Flanagan proved most of us wrong thankfully, he put in a great shift! Mignolet did great putting in a MOTM performance but I think our defence let the team down. I'm not sure if Allen fits the bill at LFC, I don't see what he adds to the team, I wish Luis Alberto would gets his chances more. Allen is sort of like Charlie Adam was for Kenny, when fit he had to start each game.

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24 Nov 2013 23:34:21
Question for Ed2 or 1,
which of the following statements best describes where we are at, at the moment.
A) Liverpool are genuine top 4 contenders and with a couple of additions in Jan could Cement a top three position.
B) Liverpool are going well and if they can continue to win against the smaller teams could sneak top 4, although they're lack of strength in depth, could see them fade.
C) Liverpool have yet to be tested this season and will struggle when faced with sterner tests. Will be find out and will struggle to secure a europa spot.
Thanks eds.
Ynwa we are Liverpool. {Ed001's Note - I am torn between A and B. I think B, purely because I am likely to be biased, so going with the lower option is more likely to be the correct one.
I do think we could struggle, if injuries and/or suspensions hit Sturridge and Suarez at the same time. Sometimes you need luck to win things, or even to be in contention to win things. After all, City struggled last season with the loss of just Kompany and Aguero, and it cost them the title. Whereas United were lucky enough to have RVP fit for a whole campaign and it won them the league.}

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D) Wait till January and we will have a better idea of what we are capable of. Some tough tests await us next month.

Red Rum

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Well the general concencus seems to be that Man City or Chelsea will win the league so that being the case leaves ourselves, Arsenal, Everton, Spurs, Man U & maybe one or 2 more looking to fill the 3rd and 4th spots. It probably will come down to injuries at the end of the day. If SAS stay fit we have a chance of grabbing one of the places but its going to be tight. I reckon Man City will win it; Chelsea 2nd; Arsenal 3rd and a battle between ourselves and Everton for 4th. Spurs have too many new players to settle in; Man U are a bit all over the place and the likes of Southampton will put in a good shout but will ultimately fade due to lack of squad depth. So to answer your question I would say B

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Option D - Liverpool are genuine title contenders and will will the title depending on who will come in Jan

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Cheers Ed 1

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