Liverpool Banter Archive September 25 2014

25 Sep 2014 20:50:21
Respected ED's,

Just wanted to know, Is Joe Allen out for the game vs Everton this weekend?

Also, What would the line-up be this weekend in your view?

Your reply is always appreciated.

Cheers

{Ed002's Note - The Eds don't normally do this but I have decided Joe won't ne playing this weekend. Right mow my choice is Mingo, Manquillo, Toure, Lovren, Enrique, Lucas, Gerrado, Markovic, Lambert0, Balotelli, Sturro.}

Thanks again ED'002.

Ed I am sure you got confused when writing, so you wrote Toure instead what you actually wanted to write. I don't know what was your real choice but surely not Toure of all our defending options?

Toure, Markovic, Lambert and Sturridge won't be starting I think.

It will likely be Lovren and Skrtel in defense with Moreno and Manquillo. I would really like to see Gerrard/Lucas and Hendo paired with either Rossiter or Williams in the derby if possible as Gerrard-Lucas combo simply will not work. The two kids being from the academy would know all about a derby's intensity and would be up for it.

25 Sep 2014 15:42:32
Eds, Is there any truth that Liverpool FC want Jack Harper and are apparently 'front runners' to acquire him from Real Madrid, and what are your thoughts about this youth player? Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - No idea, it sounds like idle speculation.}

I'm not sure, after all the money wast- erm spent on young prospects this summer, that we will go after another one so soon.

January will be about getting in 1 or 2 experienced players who are able to perform at the top level

I watched him play against basel & he was their brightest spark on the day but Liverpool scouting them atm isn't a shock because we'll play them soon. With Spanish kids & their lack of binding contracts there may well have been a bit of chat but I doubt anything more

25 Sep 2014 15:07:16
Just a point about tomorrows poll of the day. Mignolet saved the 1st penalty of the shoot-out from Bamford.
The only poor penalty from Liverpool by Sterling was also saved.
So the poll is not really relevant imo.

25 Sep 2014 15:29:25
Are we going to run the same poll tomorrow too, Simon? ;-)

I agree with you. I still cannot believe the quality of the penalties taken by both teams on Tuesday. If they weren't in the corner, or indeed curling into the side netting, then they were into the roof of the net!

So many brave penalties, but a couple of favourites were Jordan Williams for having the cojones to be one of the fist 5 on his debut, and Danny Ayala for having the guts to put his pen so high!

A bit harsh on migs that poll.

Well I meant with the results coming out tomorrow ha ha,
The standard of penalties from both sides were exceptional. The only poor ones were saved and the final one missed. Don't think either keeper could have done much better.
Mignolet got his fingers to a couple but power and accuracy won the day.
Not good for the heart but great entertainment lol.

25 Sep 2014 14:30:59
Can't understand how we arw still talking about "Safe Standing"?
Technology has changed but people haven't. Reintroducing it will ultimately lead to complacency.
Did Hillsborough did not teach anyone anything?
It wasn't the only disaster.
Safe standing has no place in Football today imo

25 Sep 2014 16:43:10
Germany manage it okay.

25 Sep 2014 17:52:19
The problem in the 80s wasn't so much the physical terrace itself, but the attitude towards football fans and their safety.

You just need to read the comments on how "packing" was managed in the Hillsborough report to see what I mean. Actually, there's an argument that you don't really need to read the comments, you just need to know that they referred to process of getting the correct numbers of people into each section as "packing" in the first place.

At the risk of being unpopular, I personally do not see attitudes towards crowd safety at football matches or any major event ever getting that disgustingly lax and dismissive again. But I do accept that I may not actually be right about that.

I'm sure Hillsbourgh managed it ok until the tragedy as well.
Just because there hasn't been an accident in Germany doesn't mean there won't be one.
Taking away a safety feature only makes it more likely that someone will get hurt and it's not worth the risk at all.
Can't believe there is even a debate about it actually.

25 Sep 2014 18:50:21
SR, that's one of the best defences of safe standing I have read. I disagree with you, but still.

I googled some safe standing proposals, and even the 'rail seating' option still runs the risks of pushing from the side.

Regardless of supporting the club that had such a terrible experience in the past, I still do not agree with any sort of standing at the ground.

I wasn't there in 1989, so I can't even begin to imagine what the people like Waro, who were there that day, went through. But watching the horror unfold on TV was enough to confirm that nothing on earth is worth that risk.

Well said Mikey, good point well made.

25 Sep 2014 21:34:21
@ MIKEY - Hillsborough didn't manage having terraces just fine before 1989. There were two or three near misses in the 80s in that stadium alone. The fact that no one took notice of what went on in the years before because it was 'just' football fans and it didn't matter if they got a bit of a squeezing exemplifies the attitude problem there was.

Honestly, I can't really decide to either actively support or oppose safe standing. But it is definitely a question of attitude rather than of facilities.

Is right Zeddicus, for those who just don't get it, try and imagine waiting for your 15 year old nephew to come back to the car after the game and you wait. wait. wait, and then fear the worst thing imaginable might have happened, it had.
I really didn't want to tell that story but I have read some really insensitive posts, mainly the tone of them, I would be surprised if any advocates of "safe" standing would be of the same opinion if they had lost a member of their family or a close friend.
RIP THE 96.
JFT96.

25 Sep 2014 13:24:15
Exams start tomorrow guys(tauri)
need the wishes guys, they really helped out last time round

{Ed002's Note - Good luck with them Reet. I am sure we all wish you that.}

25 Sep 2014 13:39:23
Thanks Ed.

Good luck kid!

25 Sep 2014 14:48:35
Good luck Reet!

Good luck Reet mate! I've just finished my test's and you will be glad to know that there all clear. Now all that I have to remind me of that camping trip in Wales is a rash that the doc said can be treated with cream, and should be gone in two weeks all being well.

YNWA

Go on Reet good luck lad

Thanks all for wishes. I'll do liverpool rumours proud ;-)

Good luck mate.

Red Rum

Take it easy Reet. You'll do fine. I'll wear my lucky pants for you tomorrow.

Good luck fellow Ed!

25 Sep 2014 13:05:05
Not one of Harry's, can I ask, where you at Hillsborough? I was, and until you experience going from " just watching " your team in a game to being in fear for your safety and then witnessing what all of us who where there that day witnessed first hand which was akin to a war zone ( NOT T.V. PICTURES ) then you will never be in a mental position to glibly just assume everything would be just fine because times have changed! F**K atmosphere, peoples lives are far far more important. NO TO STANDING.

p.s. And before you say you didn't say that, I know you didn't but if there's any risk at all to peoples lives even if it's miniscule, then you don't do it.

Spot on Waro lad, same as my post below, what annoyed me as well was his attitude and tone of his post, telling people to get a grip etc.

25 Sep 2014 14:39:50
I don't think that I have ever agreed more wholeheartedly with one of your posts, Waro.

{Ed001's Note - I find it hard to understand why this debate keeps coming up. No to standing there is no safe standing.}

Didn't know you'd been to a warzone waro

25 Sep 2014 15:24:32
Settle down now, Robert

Spot on Waro.

I understand it's a sore spot but if something is called 'safe' then I don't see the problem but I can obviously see your objections & btw I wasn't even born when it happened but I as you'll certainly appreciate have my own opinions & won't shy away from them because the majority of other Liverpool fans disagree however virtually every other set of supporters around the country & world seem to agree

What a stupid post bobatron, no time for jokes or sarcasm, what is wrong with you?

Ed01, ................

{Ed002's Note - Actually it has been me keeping an eye on it all. You are right and a couple should never have gotten through. I am letting this go right now as it is decent, reflective thread and there are no attempts to troll it right now. I'll let run.}

Might want o let your buddy Ozone know that there is no such thing as 'safe standing", Waro.

Ozone has openly admitted he and his chums always stand on the KOP, regardless of what has happened in the past.

Not one of harrys, i see you chose not to answer my question, not surprised as i think i know the answer anyway and by the way the tone of your posts still hasn't changed has it, opinions are one thing the way you put them across is another and you have a lot learn.

Sorry not one of Harry's but just because someone calls it safe doesn't mean it is, safer maybe, but safe?
Just like the safety pin is safer than a pin, but you can still stab yourself.

Ok Ed no probs

This is one post from Waro neither I nor anyone else can disagree with.

I remember watching the live updates on TV coming through and that was horrific enough.

I think all of us oldies remember ailment standing in the terraces at some point where we were out of our comfort zone.

Never again means never again. No standing sections can ever be fully safe.

Hey Mikey, that's funny mate I thought of the exact same analogy, great minds hey.

So you know it's not a joke or sarcasm, I find this particularly horrid when you describe an obvious tradgedy as a warzone.
Waro asks Harry if he was there, as if his opinion doesn't matter if he wasn't there. Well using that same logic, you can't describe something as a warzone if you've never been to one, it completely undermines the danger soldiers put themselves in every single day! If you've never been to a warzone, don't describe something as a warzone! the same rule applies here

I'll sit down next time then AG and see if I can see the game through somebody's legs. I'll do the same away from home. Ridiculous swipe. I was merely stipulating how it is.

25 Sep 2014 00:42:37
My last word on safe standing, the Kop was dangerous but i don't remember the paddock being life threatening, can anyone tell me any stories that differ?
i genuinely would like to know as i never stood in the paddock.

I agree with Alanhuyton.
It's a backward step. I think we, as a club, should be the last club to even consider it.

To put the atmosphere in the crowd ahead of safety is utterly disrespectful to the death of 96 fans at Hillsbrough.

Anyone who went to the home games against Juventus and Chelsea in 2005 champions league knows there is nothing physical preventing the crowd from having the most stirring atmosphere.
It's nothing to do with standing or seating. It's other factors which I don't want to go into but we all know.
Using seating as a reason for a poor atmosphere is a poor excuse IMO.

I agree with Ken here. Picture Liverpool beating Utd 2-1 at Anfield! I guess on that day the atmosphere would be electric. Maybe the fans need something to sing about? Maybe all the "locals" shouldn't be put of by the "out of towners" and help create the atmosphere?

Safe standing says it all lads. if it's safe do it. Makes me laugh how people still want to get on their high horse. What happened that day was due to an unfit ground, unfit policing & a general lack of intelligence we have now. Does anyone seriously think that if there was safe standing they'd suddenly go back to letting anyone that turned up in? No. Safe standing involves rows of rails with seat to be sold. Heath & safety gone made is one of our favorite phrases get we don't trust that the current set of anal health & safety workers would manage it? Get a grip lads. Were a ser of supporters known for living in the past but seriously climb down & actually engage brain & see that there's absolutely no reason to be against it. Dortmund have far better fans than us in a far less health & safety mad country & they've managed it just fine.

Not one of Harry's, if that's your opinion that's your opinion but you need to tone down your comments, "makes me laugh how people still want to get on their high horse", "get a grip lads", "absolutely no reason", (well I can think of 96 reasons for a start, and that's without going into Heysel, Glasgow, Bradford etc etc). If standing is brought back and is "succesful" for a while it only takes a little slip to cause another disaster.
By the way, I will hazard a guess you never lost any family or maybe even a close friend at Hillsborough, I hope I am right, am I ?

I like to think I've got principles, and I like to think that I've given my fair share of support to the HJC, but then again, I work hard, enjoy my beloved club and enjoy going to the games (when I can afford it).

My problem is, which has niggled away at me for years is, do I stick to my principles, on the basis that another disaster could actually happen, or that the cost of attending the game and stadia is crippling supporters?

I moan about the ticket prices, I moan about the atmosphere and I moan that enough kids do not attend, so standing makes sense to me.

Legislation will change, it has too now in favour of standing as football for the ordinary fan is just a memory, and I fear that if Liverpool and their supporters stick to their principles then the club will be left behind, and won't go forward.

Moving forward is about learning from mistakes.

Another thing, not one of Harrys, does being able to stand make so much difference to your match day experience? as another poster said a great atmosphere can still be had given the right circumstances, maybe if we had have been as succesful in the past 20 years as we were in the 70's and 80's the atmosphere at Anfield would have been better anyway. All in all I think the negatives to standing outweigh any positives and safety should be paramount.

Sorry Davey, disagree, one major flaw in your thinking is saying about standing so kids can afford to go, well i tell you what, the last place i would let any kid of mine go is to stand at a match.

Alan, standing does make a difference mate, ask the thousands of Liverpool away supporters who do it every away game every second week. Ask the majority of the kop who do it at the back.

It still goes on.

You're spot on in what you're saying, and no-one can disagree with the no argument, but our supporters continue to contradict what we preach.

Harsh but true.

Regarding the standing up at matches.
I think the club should be consistent with the policing of the no standing policy
Some European games it seems we can stand for longer periods and other premier league games we are instructed to sit while the entire time we have the away fans standing
Whilst we don't always care too much for some opposition supporters their safety must also be considered
I personally prefer to stand at matches and always do at away games
The last time I felt uncomfortable with this was in Athens in 2007 but this was down to policing and stewarding as it was just chaos with far too many in one area.
I think my point is we need consistency home and away and if there is any doubt over safety then sit we must

Davey, it may make a difference, the point i am making is, is it a difference worth the risk? I don't think so mate, by the way I've been to my fair share of away games mate, in the past if i missed 2 or 3 away games a season i would be gutted.

This is the problem Alan. We're all grown-ups on here, and we should be able to have this debate, so I respect everyone's opinion.

What is difficult is attempting to type down an alternative opinion to such a sensitive issue, without it coming across as patronising, nasty, insensitive and everything else, and that is something I am not - and especially over this issue.

I always feel uncomfortable talking about this. In fact, I no longer want to discuss this as I feel I'm digging myself a hole to somewhere I don't want to go, and don't want to be seen as an arrogant basket.

In a nutshell I'm back-tracking because all I want is to watch my beloved reds.

No problem with your opinionDavey, you put it across in an acceptable way, unlike some ar****le on here.

I've got a season ticket in the kop. I was stood on the kop for the last time against Norwich.
I loved and preferred the standing.
But I'm against any standing area at Anfield. I agree wholeheartedly with the 96 reasons why not.
If other clubs choose otherwise, then that's their choice, I've already voiced mine.
The atmosphere has got progressively worse since we sat.
But instead of blaming the position of our body, why don't more fans do what they pay for and support the team by making some noise?
I think it's the make up of the fans that has changed the atmosphere and not the seating.
All clubs are now businesses and want to maximise profit. So they try to attract families who pay the same price as a bunch of lads, but who will buy something from the club shop, a programme and some food inside the ground! Something me n my mates certainly don't do!
To finish, I'd like to commend the 2 lads who managed to provide their clearly differing opinions on an emotive subject without resorting to insults and dismissive remarks in order to prove their points.
Maybe if we all learnt a little of this then it might relieve the eds of their babysitting responsibilities!!