Liverpool Banter Archive February 26 2014

26 Feb 2014 20:20:09
Hi eds and fellow reds,
So we've been linked with isco today in the papers etc. as a possible replacement for gerrard in the future. To me it would make sense and if we do get champions league next year he would be interested in a move to us wouldn't he? What are your opinions guys, will he join us if we were interested and is he the right player? Thanks in advance guys!

{Ed002's Note - I wouldn't hold your breath.}

The mancs are indeed in a better position to adapt than were because they`re currently light years ahead of us in terms of marketing and commerce so I don`t expect them to struggle like we did. But only time will tell.

Isco ain`t going to happen. However, I wuldn`t mind Morata though. Looks very tidy and is a finisher in the box.

Mancs were light years ahead. No longer. Times has caught up with them.

26 Feb 2014 19:24:23
Eds, a lot of people saying that what Manchester United are going through is the same as what happened to us when souness took over. Now question is, is their phase as bad as ours or similar? And do you see them struggling for a long time?
Cheers

{Ed002's Note - No.}

Just my thoughts, think football changed a lot since late 80s early 90s, money, tv, etc etc, we off/on the pitch never really took full advantage of things for 1 reasons or other, hate to say it but Man U are in very good position off the pitch to really never let things get to bad but you never know, in saying that how long is moyes is contract lol we live in hope!

Utd have the advantage of being commercially stronger than we were when Souness took over. I don`t think they will struggle for that long due to this fact BUT only time will tell.

26 Feb 2014 16:06:28
I heard that if Liverpool get CL for next year, Karim Benzema will be one of our top priorities and that we will stand a decent chance of getting him. Any thoughts?

Not sure, but just read in the Metro Brendan's after Real Madrid's Isco as a long term replacement for Gerrard for $37M if/when we secure CL next season. Let's wait and see.

Isco would be a brilliant signing however I can't see it happening.

Madrid may need to balance the books but I think there sales are going to be the likes of Benzema, Coentroa and Di Maria etc.

I did hear BR would want Isco as part of any previous Suarez deal,,, as we know that never materialised and he's staying at Liverpool so maybe yeh, we might want Isco, who wouldn't?! But we'd be paying some BIG money if we did

{Ed002's Note - Isco only moved to Real Madrid last summer so that is incorrect. Real Madrid were expecting Liverpool to ask for Morata.}

If he was to leave i'd imagine him going to city seems as he play with the manager at malaga

Don't rate Morata at all, not convinced and Madrid are welcome to keep him or sell him to spurs!

{Ed002's Note - Arsenal or Juve.}

26 Feb 2014 14:48:52
Sakho & Lucas should both be fit for the utd game. Sakho may make the bench on Saturday. Just thought I'd spread the joy.

To be fair I think our u21s could beat united if they play like they did lst night

I hope so because we`re going to need them for the run-in.

26 Feb 2014 09:37:38
LFC require a DEFENSIVE CLEAROUT this summer if we are to resolve the dodgy, nervy defending that's been haunting us since Hyppia left.
The habit of back peddling and not closing down, allowing opposing players space to run at the defence or take a shot at goal, and the most frustrating of all is the mentality of not tackling in the box unless its a last ditch tackle as a final resort.
And finally the shirt pulling style of marking. This type of defending needs to be irradicated but sadly the above are ingrained into both Agger and Skrtle.
Alot of these "habits" are instinctive qualities and are not something you can really "unteach" especially to a player approaching 30 and on the flip side, "NOT" possessing this qualities or rather bad instincts and habits seperate an average defender from a world class one. BR can coach his defenders all he likes but when it comes down to that split second crunch time decision in the heat of a game where reflex and instinct take over, both Agger and Skrtle are not up to the standard and quality we should be aiming for our backline be at.
I am very much greatful for their service to the club, but letting just one of them go will not solve the problem.

Secondly, Toure has a two year contract. He's having a bad run at the moment and looks like he's allergic to the ball, but I feel that he contributes massively in getting the "French speaking players of african decent" like sakho and cissokho comfitable and intergrated into the squad. So even if he plays a small part in our season on the pitch I appreciate his presence behind the scenes and in training.

Johnson has been defensively poor. But it seems BR likes his attacking ability. Question is would he take the massive pay cut with a new contract which would probably have a low basic with huge performance bonuses? I for one hand wouldn't be sad to see him moved on.

AGGER, SKRTL and JOHNSON are all coming from Rafa's group of "overpaid" players on huge basic salaries, and FSG is looking to cut the wage budget. Letting these 3 go would free up a huge to boost the transfer kitty and could finance a right footed "Sakho".

Cissokho for me tries very hard but lacks a bit of attacking quality. He seems a bit one dimensional when he pushes forward and seems awkward on the ball. Not a long term solution to left back but a good enough squad player.

Totally agree. They're all bad defenders and should be replaced,,, chasing players like Salah and Kono is daft considering everyone connected with Liverpool knows our weakness is at the back

I am infact of the opinion that Gerrard is the problem, he creates an unbalance in the midfield which Allen could solve. With him we could keep possession better which would take some pressure off the back 4 as shown against swansea.

26 Feb 2014 12:55:12
I think you are all right. When Allen came on and Toure replaced the shoddy looknig Agger we didn't concede or even look like conceding. Allen made 5 tackles in half an hour. The simple fact is our best midfield is Lucas, Allen and Henderson. Coutinho and Gerrard damage the balance and make us poor defensively. You cannot exactly say that Hendo and Allen don't do enough going forward, because that midfield trio happened to coincide with the teams best form of the season in december (and that was without Sturridge in the side!). So yes, whilst Agger, Skrtel and Johnson are very over rated defenders, they are also not helped by the lack of protection from the midfield. I keep seeing people saying Gerrard is proving his doubters wrong but we have conceded 12 goals in 8 games with him in the defensive midfield role. Going forward, he still has a lot to offer (Fulham pass, dead ball ability) but from deep we are wasting his best attributes. Even the games where he's played reasonably well he's still looked like he's been struggling and making last ditch tackles whereas in contrast Lucas makes the role look easy and rarely ever has to bomb back and slide someone from behind.

We are paying the price defensively of having Gerrard out of position and having 3 average players still very much the core of our defence. I don't think Toure is much better than Agger or Skrtel as an individual but his experience seems to bring the best out of others and he is a leader. He's also on half the wages and wouldn't command a transfer fee anything like Skrtel or Agger would.

Next season, I'd like to go into the year with Ilori, Wisdom, Kelly, Sakho and Toure as our senior centre backs. Flanagan, Kelly, McLaughlin as our senior right backs. NEW LEFT BACK, Cissokho and Smith as our left backs. If Kelly, Wisdom and Ilori are not going to be trusted then they should be sold and replaced with players who will be. United play Smalling and Jones there and Wisdom and Ilori for sure are both superior players. Our defensive midfield position needs a look at unless Coady, Baio or Rossiter want to be Lucas's understudy. Gerrard should only play there in extreme circumstances, although I do think that if our defence pushed up then the reduced amount of ground the midfield would have to cover would benefit Stevie. We also need a new keeper with experience who is better than Mingolet. Whilst I have faith Migs will be great in 4/5 years, we cannot afford to wait that long with him as first choice. He'd be a worthy understudy though. I'd be looking at the likes of Ceasar, Mandanda, Valdes etc. Someone who would be cheap, but is Champions league ready/experienced. We are the leagues top scorers but we have the worst defensive record of the top teams. Our style may not help, but we cannot maintain our place in the top 4 with a defence full of individual errors waiting to happen.

Konoplyanka and co can wait until we have decided who is going to play alongside Sakho long term in all 3 defensive positions. We also have Sama and Paez who are both around 20/21 and yet to get a chance in centre back. The even younger Lloyd Jones (17) looks like he will be the best of the bunch, but he needs at least 3 more years before he's ready. Attack wise we have Suarez, Sturridge, Sterling, Coutinho, Ibe, Suso, Borini, Assaidi, Teixeira, Aspas, Alberto etc. It'd be nice if Alberto and Teixeira got a season on loan and if Aspas/Borini/Assadi are not trusted to play then they will need replacing with people who will be. you don't need more than 9 players for 3 forward positions. Especially not when 6/7 of them will want game time assurances.

YNWAdam

Years we've never quite had a confident defence when put under pressure and always let in silly goals due to lack of composure at the back. Agger and Skrtel have always been afraid to attempt a tackle in the box and always seem to just want to "block a shot". Sakho is such a breath of fresh air and he's not afraid to put in those tackles. But we need a partner for him who would do the same.
I agree with Lewis regarding allen as 10 games this season where we either drew or lost had Gerrard in the starting lineup. Allen plays more short quick passes and we automatically play quicker and more fluintly when he's on in play of Gerrard. Furthermore we have the headache of Lucas coming back and BR wanting to play him ahead of Gerrard in the role Henderson's being occupying. That would take a bit getting used to as Lucas would then have to learn to be more attacking.
All this due to accommodating Gerrard. A bit too much accomodating going on . I'd much rather Gerrard coming on in the 60th minute to steady the ship and see the game through.
YNWA

The defensive and midfield issues we have should be treated as two separate issues. Yes in the short term improving the midfield will as you say lewis "take the pressure off the back 4" but that's just sweeping the problem of the back 4 under the carpet. We need a back 4, well rather we just need the TWO centre halves to be SOLID. Sakho fits the requirement. Now we need one more like him and a decent backup.

26 Feb 2014 14:44:27
the only problem we have is mistakes! get over it. players are human. our defenders are class in my eyes there better than most out there and all you lot do is slate. if we keep a clean sheet next game you all going to write our defence is solid. 3 goals against swans where harsh because of bad referee decisions, except for shelves goal. and Gerrard in that dcm role also brings out a strength in attack, as he does them pin point passing.

i only see one thing and that is we are moving upwards.

In our last games I don't think we can blame Steven G for the goals against us.

Against Swansea(4-3) Skrtel made the penalty and also the free kick.

Against Fulham(3-2) it was Skrtels pass that lead to Richardsons goal, and Kolo's own goal is hard to blame Steven for.

Game against West Brom(1-1) Kolo made the horrible pass that lead to the goal.

I do not think Gerrard could be blamed for any of those goals.

Great.

Sell every defender and bring in unproven defenders to disrupt things a little more.

Boss conclusion that.

There's an article on espnfc.com right now titled "Defensive lapses a natural consequence of Liverpool's dynamism." It wouldn't hurt to read this before benching and/or selling everyone.

Well if I wrote an absolute load of BS like that I would not bother leaving my name either. Johnson I will agree with you on.

Agger and Skrtel are not players rafa offered huge salaries to. They both got pay rises in Brendans first Summer as Boss. Remember? When City wanted Skrtel and City and Barcelona wanted Agger and Skrtel?

Agger and Skrtel were both Boss when Kenny was at the club, Then Agger and Lucas got injured and our season was finished. I refuse to believe them two, who had such a solid partnership suddenly went bad as soon as Steve Clarke left the club. Skrtel is a good player, and Agger is absolute Quality.

Just one question why do we need a "right footed" anybody?

Ruthless mate, I agree they are/were quality, take it as you will? The only reason I can see for their drop in performance can be that we are now playing a different system under Brendon.

Agger is no longer the player he used to be de to incessant injuries and Skrtl has become a liability and cannot be trusted. That`s why they are no longer good enough in some quarters especially Skrtl. Let me remind you that if Kolo hadn`t gotten injured in b4 tha utd game at aAnfield, Skrtl was on his way out because he had lost his place to Carra (a 35 yr old semi-retiree, if you please) who was actually better than him last season. This says a lot about Skrtl`s ability or in this case, lack thereof and he has reverted to the player that got benched last year. Our defence has NEVER settled due to injuries and changes in it and in midfield. BR is trying to improvise and as long as we keep scoring goals, that`s what it`s going to have to be till our injured players (Sahko and Lucas) return.

There's a comment by Tiresome John just a wee bit above here. I've just read the article he talks about on ESPN. I totally agree with it. I had a discussion with Ed01 the other day; and we disagreed over the subject of our defenders; which the ESPN article addresses. It makes my point much more eloquently than I ever could. What you reckon '01? Take a read. Give us your thoughts.
The majority of people here seem very negative toward our defenders. But Tiresome John is right. ESPN make some great points. For example, they talk of Tony Pulis taking over at Crystal Palace. Pulis has kept quite a few clean sheets since his arrival; more than Liverpool. Are their defenders better than ours? Pulis has used tactics to tighten the team - tuck in the full backs and shield his defenders with deep-lying midfielders. Result: hard to score against - less dynamic; score less goals and bloody sore on the eye.
Rodgers could do all of that if he wanted. Houllier did it and got nowhere. Benitez did it too and won the Champs league but feck, that apart - we were hard to watch. You want to go back to that or are you enjoying our razzle & dazzle?!
Read the article. its called:
Defensive lapses a natural consequence of Liverpool's dynamism.
Jackzokay

26 Feb 2014 09:23:33
Question to Discuss Regarding comments made by BR about not grinding results out and swansea game being a perfect example of it.

Is there any difference winning a game 1-0 with a 70th minute goal?

Than winning a game 4-3 with the winner in the 70th minute having not being behind in the game?

Whether in be 0-0 or 3-3 up to that point, the game is still at the same point?

Obviously defence has been a concern and would be nice to see some clean sheets, but does it really matter?

Of course it matters. If we have a watertight defence, it gives the team confidence to control the game and dictate play.

Right now we are more likely to leak goals then score. Have you watched us play after conceding? It's like panic stations mode: everyone start dropping their heads, passing becomes wayward, long balls and crosses to nowhere, choosing to shoot hollywood balls then passing etc.

That's why Rodgers sent Allen in place of Sterling against Swansea - his composure and control of the ball allowed us to regain the midfield and dictate play

The end result is the only thing that matters.

Singred,

A solid back 4 normally comes at the expense of attacking flare.

I would not say we look more likely to concede than score or we would be losing games.

The individual errors are a concern, but the style of play we now play means that the opposition will have chances to score.

The question is should we accept that will concede a few goals due to our attacking intentions? Or should we go back to the Rafa days, the game starts and 0-0 and if we don't concede we will have earned a point.

"We are more likely to leak goals than score"

What a ridiculous statement, we have the second best goal difference in the league, pull your head out of your proverbial!

To give a logistical answer yes it does. IF we end up on the same points and goal difference as another team then goals scored differentiate.

Plus it wouldn't be Liverpool if you didn't have at least three coronaries per game!

I thought in the game at the weekend the players were almost too confident, and blinded by our attacking philosophy.

I watched the game live but on the MOTD highlights, you can see Flannagan popping up around the edge of the box, in an almost central midfield position.

At another point he is the most advanced player on the pitch looking for a through ball to be played to him.

Our shape was all over the place which is why Swansea caused us so many problems when they won back possesion and ran at our defence quickly.

Hopefully conceding 3 at home has made the players realise we need to be switched on more defensivley.

If a team grind result every game that mean's they are not good enough

If we ground a result out of every game we would be top of the league.

We are more likely to score than we are to concede and the numbers prove it. Great teams KNOW how to win in different ways and if we want to end up winning the league at some point, we have to KNOW how to win and going into games w/ the desire to win it regardless of the circumstances. Rafa was always content with not losing and that angered the hell out of me. BR tries to win every game and you don`t score 70 goals in 27 games if you don`t have the bravery to go and try to win at all costs. We might leak some goals and that could be frustrating BUT we have to play TO WIN THE GAME.

26 Feb 2014 03:11:00
After watching the mancs get beat in Greece (ha ha) It got me thinking how they never really did get a replacement for scholes. a worker, goal scorer, driving force, leader, some one who gave 100%. I just hope we don't make the same mistake with Stevie G. Let's hope there is someone in the wings either coming through the youth system, in which case we should be giving him game time or if we have to spend the cash let's do it. let's be honest he may have 2 if lucky 3 seasons left? Stevie will be very hard class player to replace.

What is happening to UTD is what happened to us a few years back. Teams lost the fear factor of Anfield. Instead of just showing up hoping for a draw teams started coming here and giving us a game. The same thing is finally happening at Old Trafford. I have predicted for the last two seasons that they would struggle to get into the top 4 because I just don't rate a lot of their players, but then they go and win the EPL with them so goes to show what I know. And I think your right, they haven't replaced Scholes, Keane or Ferdinand (IMO Ferdinand has been finished for a while).

I reckon that scholes and Gerrard are probably two of the most difficult players to replace like for like.I know i'll probably get shot down for this but there's a lad in the squad now whos improvement this year has been excellent. he's a worker, someone who gives a 100%, someone who is increasingly becoming a driving force, becoming more vocal and, he's scored a couple already and if he can weigh in with anywhere near the goals that he apparently scores all day in training he may just do the job. Mr Henderson? Before I get slagged may I reiterate that I am not suggesting he is Steven Gerrard mark two.I don't think there is one.

You don`t have to replace SG like for like because he can NEVER be replaced as a player and a leader. What you CAN do is either get someone similar or change the system to overcome his absence. And based on how well we played w/o him at Spurs, City, and the bridge, we currently have a framework or system of how we can overcome his eventual departure and move forward. SG is no longer the MAN that makes us tick. He is now part of the system that makes us tick and that in itself is credit to BR and his managerial acumen.

How can they replace Scholes? It's like France trying to replace Zidane. Ain't going to happen. Do you think it's a coincidence Ferguson left the game the same time Scholes did?

26 Feb 2014 00:22:18
Banter please Eds.

Evening gents,

A question for the Eds and you Reds ( I also posted this on gooner site)

I appreciate that taking penalties, especially under intense pressure, is not the easiest thing to do, but what do you think about all this talk about getting the players to talk to a Psychologist about penalty taking before they go to the World Cup?

Do you think it's a step too far? Are we pandering to our already over-pampered stars?

Its gotten to the point where I don't even care about the england team anymore, don't get me wrong I want them to win but I couldn't care less if they lost. I don't see why I should care when its obvious the FA dont, hiring Roy Hodgson as manager, flipping pathetic

Yeah, I don't believe you can replicate the conditions of taking a penalty for your country in burning heat at altitude after you've been busting a gut for 2 hours. The whole footballing world watching you. The pressure is immense.
I believe in that situation "muscle memory" takes over. You have to practise taking penalties until it is second nature.
Try any trick in the book, but ultimately there is no substitute for practise.

Pick a corner, hit it hard. Body language will tell a goalkeeper which way to go most of the time. Those unconfident takers shape their bodies far too early and constantly will look where they want to place it to reassure the coordination. Players like shearer gerrard etc have already decided where to hit it when walking up and usually won't look at the goal till the start of the run up.

Watch almost any shearer pen.places, ball, turns back takes 4-5 steps, whistle blows, rund up and hammers it.

Gerrard places ball, wakls backwards 4 steps, looks right, towards the crowd, when he starts the run up he quickly moves his head to face goal and puts it in the net.

Each player will have his habits of trying to hide what way he's hitting and his subliminal messages. These 2 have made it obvious over the years for example purposes.

A lot of training goes into goalkeepers and analysing stuff like this or shootouts.

To be fair, I think Liverpool brought a psychologist in at the start of this year, seems to have done wonders, so why not?

Its a free kick from 12 yards no wall, its the mentally weak who miss that's why they need psychologists mate. Read Gerrards book on where his brain was when he missed one, happens to the best.

Why bother - get Gerrard in their ear - class penlty taker.

From a psychological viewpoint practice such as mindfulness is widely utilised in mental health/psychology. In its most basic explanation Mindfulness helps a person be more aware of the body and disengage from feelings/impulses creating a calmness. It's a practice derived from Buddhism.

Essentially the mind adapts, therefore can be encouraged to react in certain ways to specific situations. Aaron T Beck, one of the "grandfather's" of cognitive behavioural therapy, often pointed out the basis of many supposedly modern therapies originated in Buddhism practices mmmmaannnnyyyy moons ago.

Close down the mind to acknowledge just person, ball, goal

Agree with Bobatron. Go for the Shearer approach and smack the crap out of it, lol

Smack the crap out of it like Chris Waddle Italia 1990.

DG, I'm going to give you a little advice. There's a force in the universe that makes things happen; all you have to do is get in touch with it. Stop thinking. let things happen. and be. the ball.

As a former penalty taker, I missedd a penalty because I over-thought it. As soon as that happened, I stopped over-thinking. I took one in a shoot out and buried it. How? I picked a spot, never looked at the keeper nor where he was placed, looked at the ref while waiting for his whistle, ran up and smacked it hard and low into the corner. Since that day, I never missed a penalty again.

Hit it hard enough without telegraphing where you are aiming and a normal human being standing 12 yards away should not be able to stop it.

As Bobatron suggests, keepers make saves if it is underhit and they guess right.