Liverpool Banter Archive July 26 2017

26 Jul 2017 20:25:48
Losing a player like coutinho, who is on the verge of world class, is understandable for me, but losing can this early in his Liverpool career would be gutting.
We signed a young promising player, played them and now before they have reached a top level we might lose them. He could go on to become special.

26 Jul 2017 21:44:24
Emre Can suffered abuse for long periods of last season from the very people who were ment to be supporting him and giving him time to develop! I wouldn't want to stick around anotherseason to receive even more abuse from some fat bloke and his mates who probably haven't kicked a ball since they were 10 but are all experts! I feel the Anfield faithful have a massive part to play in the young lad not wanting to sign a new deal!

26 Jul 2017 21:44:51
There is loads of can replacement around very few coutinho replacements still hope we keep both do.

26 Jul 2017 21:49:14
He could do, in fact his stature and ability I believe are perfect for EPL.
However, my understanding is he wants game-time and if that's the reason for him to go- fair play to him.

26 Jul 2017 23:05:05
I suspect maybe Can wants to move on himself, which is the problem. He is very much wanted though, especially after Lucas going.

26 Jul 2017 23:59:23
Can? Don't make me laugh. I was one of the very few that rated and supported him. Suddenly a lot have now come out of the woodwork in support of him.

27 Jul 2017 00:24:34
If Juventus want him they better pay up. Liverpool have all the cards here (and none in Keita and VVDs case but i digress) . Personally i would rather keep my players (all of whom are trying to make world Cup squads) and just see what happens. Even if they are a bit unsettled both players ultimately seem comfortable in their surroundings at least for the short term and we have an opportunity to win it all. Barcelona and Juventus can wait one more year! Tough losing can on a free but tougher losing him in this window.

27 Jul 2017 00:43:06
I think Can's future is linked to whether we are able to buy Keita or not. If Keita comes in then Can is definitely a goner since his playing time will definitely get reduced even further. If Keita doesn't come in, then Klopp will simply have to work his convincing skills on Can to keep him at Anfield. However, guaranteeing playing time is not exactly the best way to do it, if we remember the Glen Johnson and Milner (as midfielder) situations.

27 Jul 2017 11:03:39
Don't forget there's less than 18 months age gap between Can and Couts. The OP is not comparing, say, selling a player at his peak (27/ 28) with a player in his teens. Couts just turned 25 and Can is 23.5.

26 Jul 2017 20:05:21
Ed002, been catching up on the days posts and thought your insight into a pan european league was a great read, you said three English teams may take the initial plunge, is it safe to say that would be the Manchester clubs and Chelsea with maybe another 3 to follow, arsenal, spurs and Liverpool?

Cheers!

{Ed002's Note - No it is not those three.}

26 Jul 2017 20:48:32
Interesting! I'm guessing your not going to elaborate on who it may be? :p regardless, it was a great read, insight like that is what I love about this site!

Keep up the good work eds! It's much appreciated by most of us!

26 Jul 2017 21:36:51
Burnley, West Brom, and Everton would be my nominations.

27 Jul 2017 07:41:21
It's a terrible idea dreamt up by folk with £ signs for eyes and considers the fans not one little bit.

26 Jul 2017 19:36:57
Has Firmino played attacking mid?

26 Jul 2017 20:12:44
Yes. At Hoffenheim it was his main position. He played behind the striker in a 4-2-3-1 formation. He could very easily do it again here but he struggled in attacking midfield when he first came to England. He didn't really start to shine until he was put up front by Klopp. I think he struggles to find space in between the midfield and defence in the high tempo English game. You only need to look at his new number to see what position he is playing next season. He is our first choice striker for the next 12 months at least.

26 Jul 2017 20:23:59
I don't think you can go by his number, you put a striker who plays off the should of the last man and he would be a good attacking mid. The first half of the first season was played out wide, where struggled. I'd say he's best just between the lines, not struggles.

26 Jul 2017 20:52:14
He never played as an attacking midfielder for us MK Scouser, Rodgers bizzarely used him on the left of midfield until Klopp came in and utilised him as a proxy False Nine.

26 Jul 2017 20:59:44
I agree in theory Fencey. All of his main skills point towards attacking midfielder. I am only going off his performances when he first came in though and he was poor there. However, it is very easy to argue that he was still trying to adapt to a new team, league, language, and country. So his struggled may not have been his position at all.

I know the number isn't a guarantee, but for me Firmino asking for the number 9 is a clear indication of where he sees his best position.

26 Jul 2017 23:38:51
Agreed, tsteen. Firmin0 never played AM - Rodgers played him out wide, where his talents were wasted and his short-comings (such as a lack of pace) were exposed.

Sad days they were.

27 Jul 2017 00:29:26
Klopp had played him out wide when Coutinho and Mane were both out the side. Its not his best position admittedly.

26 Jul 2017 18:47:27
Question for the eds sky reporting and other various sites that Barcelona are very confident of signing courtino do you think he will now leave in your opinion. And also the vvd sarga will he end up at Liverpool fc.

{Ed002's Note - RTFP.}

26 Jul 2017 19:29:43
If he wants to go to Barca, I'd accept nothing short of £100million he's that good.

26 Jul 2017 20:13:38
Our asking price is €100m so you're about right Fowler9.

26 Jul 2017 19:59:01
I would dig my heels in and tell him that we will let him go next season, giving us more time to get an effective replacement for him. Do to Barcelona what RBL did to us, in essence.

26 Jul 2017 21:32:06
I'd accept £100 million which is about €112 at the minute? Coutinho has the ability to be one of the top 3-5 players in the world so Barcelona need to dig deep. I still think Naby is too much at £70 million though to consider replacing Couts. If he was around £40-50 million maybe.

Baz.

26 Jul 2017 17:01:35
It's kinda funny how we're saying no to Barcelona about Couthino and yet we are wrecking NK's club and won't take no for a answer. As Alanas Morisete would say, Isn't it ironic!

26 Jul 2017 17:26:42
Nope it's different RBL are a little club with nothing other than moneybags. There's no prestige to playing for them they have no history and no fans. The player wants to leave and the only thing in the way is money. Coutinho is at a club he at least likes, who've got millions of fans, a rich history and is going in the right direction all RBL have is money there's no soul nobody has a memory of them from 2 years ago or 5 or 25 or 50. For them it's all about money for us money is important but not the number 1 goal. If they get offered enough money they'll cash in we could be offered enough money and still keep him for another year that's the difference.

26 Jul 2017 18:37:28
IMO.

if there was an enquiry or court case into these transfer dealings, and the post above was our clubs explanation of our actions,

We would have the book thrown at us!

26 Jul 2017 19:10:44
Not really Barrie, its called playing hard-ball.

Both the player and the club know he will leave at some point, to Barcelona, so we should rinse them like clubs are doing to our club.

In a strange way, i could bever see the club denying him of this opportunity if the money is right.

26 Jul 2017 19:22:16
Well firstly Leipzig weren't around 10 years ago they used to be called SSV Markranstadt til around 2009/ 2010 so anyone ho does remember them being Liepzig before that is a liar.

That being said I disagree with you the size of a club and the passion a person has for said club is complete conjecture and depends on the individuals exposure tovthe brand of that club. 1) RB Have a great commercial presence and are growing as a club I think it is quite arrogant to suggest they are a small club that nobody wants to play for and we are the pinnacle.
2 Barcelona are a much bigger club than us in the eyes of South Americans (and probably most other people) so you saying that is the diffirence is wrong as that is a similarity a bigger club coming in for a player that is vitaly important to the other team.

26 Jul 2017 19:28:42
Spot on, Lfcder. Jezza, your post spanks of arrogance and hubris, the very things that LFC have no business posturing with as we have no credibility in this area cos we have not been good enough to warrant the arrogance you ascribe to in your post. I suggest you inject a bit of humility in your posts on this topic going forward.

26 Jul 2017 21:22:22
It might be surprising but rb actually has a fairly big fanbase in Germany because they are one of not the only club from eastern Germany (what was the DDR) . Also they have a strict wagemax (I think 3mil/ year is the max they are paying) .

So yes, they don't have any history but their stadium is almost sold out most of the time (and a lot of people going to away games) and the "only" thing where they spent the big Red Bull money on is on transfers and not on wages/ bonuses or something like that. Just keep that in mind about rbl.

26 Jul 2017 23:28:31
I love my club Jezza. But what gives anyone the right to deliver a post that slates a team that don't have as much history and background for not having as much history and background? It all starts somewhere, right?! So called small teams must be afforded opportunity and if that is with funding provided then so be it. It can't ever be a fully level playing field I know but sentiments like that don't give it chance! Barcelona are a far bigger team than us in every respect unfortunately - I'm sure you'd hate a fan of Barcelona putting such a post out about LFC?!

Barry yes it is fairly ironic! What is also fairly ironic is that most of those having a go at Leipzig actually have never seen this NK lad play. hype!

26 Jul 2017 23:29:34
And why wouldn't we want "to keep him for one moreover year".

A short term approach isn't opportunity to build on our nostalgic past?!

27 Jul 2017 02:12:34
Ill happily admit to being a hypocrite. I want us to get Keita and i want us to keep hold of coutinho. It is not an impossible scenarion.

26 Jul 2017 16:46:30
Hey Editors, Liverpool obviously have problems in doing transfers and that is affecting us more than it does to the clubs we want to buy from. But speaking of legality and being ethical, here we hear Coutinho agreeing deal with Barcelona or that they are confident of of landing him. That kinda of information to sky has to come from the club. If this is not true, they are doing it on purpose for whatever reason. If that is not illegal, it should atleast be unethical. So still confused what Liverpool did to make them so worse than the others. Asking this because specially ed002 is disgusted with the way Liverpool do business.

{Ed002's Note - Sure I would be pleased to satisfy your need to understand what Liverpool and Klopp did again - but I suspect others are sick of reading it. I have no idea what Sky have said but there is no suggestion of any wrong doing but if anything his agent may, on instruction from Coutinho, have overstepped the mark in his discussions with Barcelona. Coutinho should also not have requested Neymar to speak to Barcelona on his behalf. There is no suggestion that Barcelona has made any illegal approach to the player at all.}

26 Jul 2017 17:35:36
I think what he's getting at Ed is Barcelona briefing the press as to their intentions in an attempt to unsettle the player. Seems we are not the only ones that do it.

{Ed002's Note - I am not aware of them doing that. Did they do that a couple of montsh before the end of the season to a few who were to go out and deliberately unsettle players and give interviews to others. I have explained for the past year about Coutinho and his efforts to move to Barcelona. And whilst Liverpool are absolutely bottom of the pile in terms of behavior, Barcelona are likely the fourth worst offender.

You want to stop trying to push the blame aware and bring others in to it. You are simply making the Liverpool fans even more of a laughing stock.}

26 Jul 2017 18:23:41
Jesus ED002 you really don't seem to like the Liverpool fans, club or manager very much do you. Fewey!

{Ed002's Note - I have nothing against them but they keep asking the same things over and over again and they keep trying to justify the repugnant behavior of Klopp and saying everyone else does it - they don't. Right now both Southampton and Leipzig have players who are damaged good because of Liverpool -and I appreciate that there are plenty of morons who think this is a great way to business - it isn't.}

26 Jul 2017 18:46:17
Ed02 am i right, sorry if im wrong, that youve said for sometime, that couts has- privatley trued for a Barcelona move- while publicly being happy to be at lfc?

{Ed002's Note - I have spent a year or more explaining what he has done.}

26 Jul 2017 18:56:03
We are just trying to understand your point of view ed. You have yet again used a hugely derogatory adjective to describe Klopp and Liverpool's behaviour. From the outside looking in it looks like most other clubs behaviour is just as repugnant. We could now be left with a player in Coutinho that is 'damaged goods' because of Barca's advances and strategic use of the press. Not trying to justify anything we've done just observing what is clearly going on. I've said before tapping up is rife in the game and to think it's not is just plain naive.

{Ed002's Note - It is nothing whatsoever to do with Barcelona or Coutinho. You don't seem to get that using UNPROFESSIONAL AND ILLEGAL MEANS LIVERPOOL HAVE DAMAGED TWO ROFESSIONAL PLAYERS CONTRACTED TO ANOTHER CLUB. THEY ALSO DESTROYED THE CAREER OF A 12 YEAR OLD BOY, LEAVING HIS PARENTS IN DEPT. THEY HAVE SUBMITTED FRAUDULENT AND FALSIFIED DOCUMENTATION TO AN INVESTIGATION THAT THEY ALSO LIED TO. THEY ALSO TRIED TO PERSUADE THE PARENTS OF THE CHILD TO LIE. THEY ARE ALREADY SERVING A BAN. THEY HAVE A COURT CASE COMING THAT HAS POSTENTIALLY VERY SERIOUS RAMIFICATIONS BECAUSE OF ONE PIECE OF EVIDENCE. THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY BOTTOM OF THE PILE OF EUROPEAN FOOTBALL.

Thank you for yet again bringing this up.}

26 Jul 2017 19:36:22
Ed2 the court case coming you have mentioned is that separate to this stoke kid or is it that case. As I believe that one is going on now. On the Stoke youngster I see his dad was quoted as saying it's a widespread issue in football and not just liverpool although I can't remember the issue he was talking about. Is there anything the fa or uefa can do to stop this or is there just to many loopholes in which clubs use to get around signing the young kids, other than the transfer bans. I would like to see the singing of kids stopped if possible the amount of kids who get signed for big money then just dissappear from the game is crazy.

{Ed002's Note - It is related. Tapping up of kids is a widespread issue - what Liverpool did is not.}

26 Jul 2017 19:47:57
Can those of us on here who keep trying to push the blame for our horrendous tapping up nonsense on other clubs under the pathetic excuse of "hey you see, everyone does it so what's the problem? " or go read Ed02 posts on the issue or just stop asking the same pathetic questions over and over again.

26 Jul 2017 19:51:46
Can you not just all leave it? I really don't get what the issue is here.

It's like now you're trying to say that Ed002 is making the situation to be far worse than it is. Clearly he isn't.

I can remember, albeit a while back, Ed002 saying that he actually had a bit of a soft spot for Liverpool and used to really respect the club (pretty sure I'm not imagining this? ) .

He's clearly involved in the game to a large degree and I'd imagine when you see and understand, first hand, the serious ramifications that our behaviour has caused it becomes hard to brush that under the carpet. Couple that with being asked everyday why we're being targeted for abuse and why he has some personal vendetta with Klopp and Co its going to grate like f*ck on you, which it clearly has. He's only human like the rest of us. In many respects for him to ignore it would make him a bit of a knobhead so just try and think about this before constantly going down the same boring tunnel over and over.

Everytime a deflection is possible people seem to start asking how it's any different to us etc. It's dragging this page down at times.

26 Jul 2017 19:53:01
This tripe is getting extremely old, why can't most fans swallow that bitter pill yet¿
We are not that brilliant club everybody seems to remember.

And couts wants to leave. He's been engineering a move HIMSELF.
Let him go, we can't behave the way we have been behaving and expect other clubs just to sell up.
It's disgusting.

The people who dislike like comment are the people who need to swallow that pill and move on.

ED2 has said it plain and simple for the past god knows how long, no matter how many different ways you ask the question the answer is still the same.

26 Jul 2017 20:41:14
for you ED02 I've been a Liverpool supporter since 1970 and believe me has scousers we've been hated and blamed for heinous acts that have no truth or very little substantiated truth. yes there is good and bad but collectively I've seen our supporters do heroic things which I know has not been publicised or for that matter even talked about again by our supporters. My question to you mate is what the F##k are you doing on this site. Just go lad and on to a site you support Manure at a guess?

{Ed002's Note - Totally agree with what you are saying in the first sentence. As to your question, I have not set anything that is not true. As to the "Manure" comment, I suspect you spend too much time with your arms stretched out making airplane noises. You personify the rubbish.}

26 Jul 2017 21:07:04
I only brought this up to get an opinion not to get a clear answer. Here are the facts I know, Ed2 saying Coutinho is asking for the move for a long time, Klopp saying he is not leaving, Coutinho signed a contract that would make it hard for him to leave, and Coutinho's strong words on how he wants to stay at Liverpool. Anything is possible I know but none of it is straight forward.
As far the business is concerned, many of us here Don't know what goes on behind the scene, but for the most part I take your word on it, you seem to know where the line is drawn but for the rest of us what we see is, we have two of our players affected by transfer dealings and two others affected by our club. Whether you do it through agent or another player the outcome is still the same. At the end of the day, it's what the player wants. Nobody felt sorry for Liverpool when mascherano refused to play and Barcelona bought him for cheap. Business is business, it has never looked pretty.

26 Jul 2017 22:27:59
Lolt, Ed2 is far more welcome on this site than the likes of you.

26 Jul 2017 23:39:13
Spot on PutneyRed👏👏 ED2 is heart of this site, without him I wouldn't have known how footy is run.

26 Jul 2017 21:31:51
I did see a few things mentioned although it was a few weeks back so can't remember to much of the detail other then changing the dates on the paper work but it was embarrassing an amateurish what was mentioned. Is there anything they can do to prevent these transfers. How many times is it a young kids plays a handful of games at a low club the all the bigger clubs are sniffing around I'd rather they stay where they are till a reasonable age before moving on rather then rot in an academy of a top club. I think deli alli is the perfect example for younger players coming through and they should look at players like bostock or whatever his name was who went to spurs from palace I believe and is unheard of now.
Also my point wasn't a dig at ed2 or anyone or to say it's not just liverpool who do it, it was is there any way they can prevent it happening at that level. Maybe I should have worded it better the only relevant part in it to Liverpool was the court case part.

26 Jul 2017 15:55:29
Afternoon eds,

With coutinho being subject of a bid from Barcelona and interest increasing. will we look to line up a replacement IF a bid was to good? Or are we confident we'll turn any offer away?

{Ed002's Note - Liverpool don't want to sell but will look to replace him if he were to leave.}

26 Jul 2017 17:03:38
I wonder if we will go for a cm or a winger if he does leave.

26 Jul 2017 17:21:21
I would imagine we will go back in for Brandt or look towards Max Meyer as ed002 has previously suggested.

26 Jul 2017 17:21:47
Assuming NK isn't considered the direct replacement then I feel we need some creative spark to link the midfield and attack as our main creative source will be gone. What worries me is how integral Coutinho is in linking the team together and without him we could be in serious trouble.

26 Jul 2017 18:48:10
Ed002 - couple of questions if possible. With regards to Coutinho have the club scouted players ready for the eventuality he would leave and sustained interest in anyone in particular or do you know of the targets we could turn to to replace him as it feels as if this was not Keita who was in addition to Coutinho. Second question is I saw you mention Barcelona were looking to release/ sell certain players this summer and may include in potential deals, is there a list of who they were looking to sell?

{Ed002's Note - (a) Max Meyer is the best fit. (b) You need the Barcelona page for that.}

26 Jul 2017 20:03:11
Max Meyer, Ed? How so? I have seen him play and he's not good enough at least not yet, to replace Couts, IMO.

26 Jul 2017 16:17:41
It really does seem that we are loosing Coutinho after scrolling through these posts. Very sad times. Magnified by the inability to bring someone in with his quality having wasted the last 6 weeks chasing Keita, a guy who we were told is not for sale!

Huge backwards steps imo.

26 Jul 2017 16:33:46
I am of the opinion that we pursue Ousmane Dembele, if Coutinho finally decides to go or Barcelona tables a wow fee for him. A very good replacement could already have been lined up by liverpool right about now, knowing fully well, he might leave before the end of the transfer window. YNWA.

{Ed002's Note - Not going to happen.}

26 Jul 2017 16:46:37
By the same logic you are using for keita, coutinho is not for sale either. Hence Barcelona should step back from their number 2 target and move on to number 3. Its not wasting time if you are making an effort to acquire your targets, now buying just for the heck of it is wasting both time and money and I am glad we are not doing that.

{Ed002's Note - It is called hipocracy.}

26 Jul 2017 16:59:01
Ed do you think we have enough time left in the window to look for a replacement given how much time we have wasted chasing Keita.

{Ed002's Note - If he leaves then yes.}

26 Jul 2017 16:42:40
Really? Ed02 has said we do not wish to sell and there is no indication we are going to, so is it looking like we're going to sell him,

26 Jul 2017 18:16:24
I am sorry ed, where is the hypocrisy in that? Both clubs are well within their rights to bid, and the recipients of the bids are within their rights to reject the bids if they are not satisfied with it. It would be sad to see couts leave but definitely not the end of the world.

We will win the league with or without him add champions league to that too!

Now if you were relating it to illegal approaches, I am sorry I misunderstood.

{Ed002's Note - Hipocracy is in expecting Barcelona to walk away after being told a player is not for sale agaisnt actively going back for a player who Liverpool has been told is not for sale.}

26 Jul 2017 19:03:05
Oh I don't expect them to!

26 Jul 2017 20:04:32
Priceless, Ed02!

26 Jul 2017 15:29:55
I've read a couple of places now that coutinho has agreed personal terms with Barcelona and the clubs are now agreeing on a price.
Is this as wrong as I hope it is or is there something to it?

{Ed002's Note - There is something to it but you need to step back from the detail.}

26 Jul 2017 15:54:29
Oh wow sad times if Coutinho is going.

26 Jul 2017 15:54:18
Can you give any details ed or is it not possible for you to say at this stage mate?

{Ed002's Note - I have explained the situation - the details need to be ignored. Barcelona are keen and would like to agree the move. They have approached and discussed this matter with Liverpool. Whether or not they have agreed a package with his agent or not I don't know.}

26 Jul 2017 16:11:13
The price being quoted makes zero sense to sell. As a fan it's a ridiculous decision to sell such a key player but also from a business view in a market where asset is rising in value. I can't see it thankfully.

26 Jul 2017 16:17:29
Can you expand ed0002? Is it something that could happen this year? Or is it more of agreeing on something for the future?

{Ed002's Note - The club won't want to sell. I have been explaining the situation regarding Barcelona and Coutinho for the past year - you need to search and read that.}

26 Jul 2017 14:07:01
As transfer windows go, this one is one of the worst for quite some time. Not since the Torres leaving Window have I urged it to shut quickly. Cannot wait until September. Don't care who we sign or don't sign from now on. I actually think with Sarah and Robertson we will be a lot stronger than last year.

26 Jul 2017 14:31:42
I hope Sarah doesn't play.

26 Jul 2017 14:40:29
auto correct. Sarah being Salah's twin sister.

26 Jul 2017 15:27:14
We won't when Coutinho goes if we don't get a replacement in.

26 Jul 2017 16:00:28
They should cap transfer fees and wages and make football cheaper for the spectators and fans to enjoy.
No one is worth over 100k a week.

{Ed002's Note - Once there is a breakaway it will become much cheaper for the fans.}

26 Jul 2017 16:36:07
That was interesting ed2. I really feared that a brakeaway would make football even more expencive for fans. I hope you have the time to explain how this works.
Thanks a lot for your calming effect in this maniac window!

{Ed002's Note - Sure, anything to detract from the repetative rubbish we are seeing right now.

The pan European breakaway remains very much an on-going issue with regular discussions on the matter between around 16 “elite” European clubs Including three from England) who meet to discuss a variety of issues a couple of times a year. Without going in to too much detail:
(a) A number of clubs take the opportunity to meet and discuss various issues including changes in rules, club versus country issues, television and other media rights, the power of UEFA, exploitation issues for new technology streams, etc.. The meetings were annually but now they happen two and sometimes three times a year. There was a meeting in December – where there was a discussion about the state of FIFA, the situation with UEFA and a so far unpublished claim from a retired referee that the result of a Champions League game was influenced by a third party. These discussions also always turn to the possibility and structure of a breakaway pan European league. Several are ex-G14 clubs, several are not, and some clubs decline involvement in such discussions.
(b) The plan is that at some point a number of clubs would break away from their national leagues and UEFA. They accept that they would be banned from all existing club competition and the players would initially be banned from all FIFA competitions as well, but know that FIFA would be looking to negotiate in any case. It would be the end of UEFA in all probability and UEFA are very aware of this. It would also result in a restructuring of many of the national leagues.
(c) The clubs would renegotiate their television and media rights, rights of distribution via other streams etc..
(d) It remains the greatest fear of UEFA and all major national authorities that one day this will happen – which has resulted in a counter-proposal being drafted by UEFA.
(e) Timing wise, two very prominent clubs want it to happen as soon as possible (2018 – not a chance) and they have the support of a third club - but most are looking at 2022 to 2015 being a good option. A few clubs are looking at 2025 to 2028 and I suspect that could end up as the reality.

There are two counter-proposals to the pan-European breakaway that have partially been backed by UEFA to try and save their own skin. The first proposal is to rename and change the format of the UEFA Champions League to make it an elite closed-shop pan-European league with a fixed number of teams – and these would be the same teams every year and be based on past winners of the Champions League and European Cup and a few (not specified) more. It would then require the restructuring of the Europa League and the possible introduction of a lower-tier European competition again. Although they have yet to flesh out the detail and there is now a major concern that the impetus for this is not coming from Europe, although one major Football Association has given their support and discussions have also been held with the leading clubs from England (Manchester United, Manchester City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal). The American backer, Stephen Ross of the Miami Dolphins, has on several occasions requested a meeting with an extant group of sides considering the pan-European breakaway to discuss his proposals. They have yet to respond but having identified the source of much of the funding (and that raising a concern) will wish to discuss it between themselves first. This has dragged on for a year and nothing has happened. However, UEFA are now considering yet another proposal that would see some places in the CL fixed (probably to previous winners) and then see it supplemented by Champions and second place sides each season. This complicates matters again as it means the re-introduction of a third competition or the significant restructuring of the EL. The plan being put to clubs is a summer/preseason tournament that will evolve in to a parallel league, and of course eventually in to a complete breakaway for these clubs. As a first step to all of this, UEFA have negotiated minor changes that will see the four entrants from England, Germany, Spain and Italy enter the existing Champions League group stages without any qualification beyond their National League position (so no entry to qualifying rounds). This has been agreed by the European Club Association but UEFA did not want to discuss it with the separate group of “elite” sides discussing the Pan European League (and that “elite” group includes three English sides) as they are aware they will get no more than a shrug and no long-term support. The second major counter proposal is a Chinese proposal from the Dalian Wanda Group proposes to open up the lucrative Chinese and Far Eastern media markets by extending the league to include Chinese and South American clubs. This has yet to be discussed by the "elite" sides as a group although the proposals have been presented to a number of them already on an individual basis. The proposals are very broad-based and lack detail - their selling point is significant additional income for the "elite".

If the proposal for a breakaway goes ahead, there is every likelihood that the big money from television, sponsorship etc. would go with a breakaway league. It would completely rupture the operations of UEFA and I would expect it would require national associations like the FA to restructure their leagues. Nobody wants this but it is the eventual consequence I would expect. Initially it could be that there is a single 16 team league with 2 or 3 EPL teams making the initial plunge. If I had to speculate, I would think (1) you might eventually see something like five or six EPL teams leave for two-tier pan European league - but it won't be based on the UEFA rankings; (2) the Premier League would be disbanded as an organisation; (3) the FA would restructure in to two 20 team divisions with lower leagues regionalised as they were many years ago; (4) FIFA would ban all players from the breakaway teams from International football - perhaps rescinding that position to stop FIFA breaking up as well - they don't want further issues but the troubles are not going to go away. I could also see many teams lose their professional status. I would think we are probably 10 years away from any significant move at this time.

I hold a reasonably strong view in terms of the need to restructure football in Europe in any case. For me an eventual a breakaway pan-European league would force the restructuring of many of the national leagues, possibly resulting in a British league with perhaps only a couple of professional tiers and then regionalised amateur leagues below that. Financially I do not see that so many pro sides can be sustained within the sport which, like it or not, will see more and more money going in to the highest levels of the game. Governments will ensure that grassroots sport get funding but everything in the middle (Southern, Northern, Conference, Division 2, Scottish Divisions 1-3, League of Wales will not get the funding needed to continue on any sort of professional basis. For me, clubs should already recognise this and put their efforts in to getting there finances in order to see if they can make it to a British professional league that will need to flourish without perhaps six sides that have gone down the pan-European route - and have gone for good. Clubs like Accrington Stanley will need to carry on as amateurs or face extinction (yet again).

The game has changed significantly and will continue to do so. Football at the highest level is big business and attracts the sponsorship it does because the sponsors wish to tap in to the disposable income of the fans and ride the back of the advertising that flows naturally from the success some clubs achieve. Long gone are the days of the cloth-capped, hobnailed-booted, chimney sweep making his way, rattle in hand, to cheer on his team at Anfield on a Saturday afternoon. I have explained that there will be changes, probably within the next 10 to 12 years, which will force the restructuring of all of the leagues in Europe and likely do away with the likes of UEFA. You will have the opportunity to see the likes of Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Juventus and the other major European sides play in week-on-week regular competition at The Emirates, Stamford Bridge etc.. You will have the opportunity to visit Milan, Barcelona, Monaco, etc. every couple of weeks to watch your team play - if they make the cut. If you want to don your cloth cap, have a pint of wallop with your chums before going off to the local match, perhaps one of the sides from the suburbs will have survived so you can go and watch them?

It was thought that a possible option might have resulted from a potential landmark decision that UEFA were to make in June or July - and that could facilitate the ownership of lower-tier sides by the more senior sides and then work as a feeder club. However – the need to make that decision was avoided.}

26 Jul 2017 18:14:40
Great read ed2. Interesting times ahead. (Maybe)

26 Jul 2017 19:26:51
Omnipotent.

26 Jul 2017 22:38:15
THAT could be classed as fullfilling answer :)
Thanks a lot Ed.

Tho I'm still not convinced that a full season TV subscription would cost me less when this pan-european league runs full flex.

I might just consentrate on my local team, that team are luckily without any spoiled young millionaires.

26 Jul 2017 13:07:15
With the fees being paid for players over the last 12 months Gini is looking like a bargain at £25million. He is going to be a big player for us this year.

26 Jul 2017 14:43:32
He's going to be a sub if we sign keita.

26 Jul 2017 15:12:55
He would be a sub for me without Keita.

26 Jul 2017 15:13:04
Looks like I'm the only one who doesn't particularly rate him that highly, he's fairly reliable and on his day has real quality but goes missing in so many games. Like Jezza said, if we sign Keita he's a sub.

26 Jul 2017 15:32:10
He's scored some huge goals last season and for me is underrated by some on here. With Coutinho as good as gone, and the increase in games, I agree with the OP, he will be a big player this year.

26 Jul 2017 15:18:29
If one of our best players of 2016-17, which resulted in our qualifying for the CL for only the second time in 8/ 9 seasons, is relegated to the bench then a) I fear injuries less given the strength of our bench and b) makes me even more confident of what our first 11 can achieve in 2017-18.

26 Jul 2017 15:21:32
Agreed Jimmy, I think he will be fantastic this year honestly I don't see VVD and Keita happening and I for one will be happy if they don't its a smack in the mouth that Liverpool deserve, don't get me wrong I believe we can find a cheaper better CB out there and I think that would be a good transfer window. moving onto Gini I think once one goal comes away from home next year flood gates will open and he will get 10-15.

26 Jul 2017 16:11:22
Wiji was one of the players who stepped up and played his heart out creating and scoring goals for us from a deeper position last season so those slating him need to take a day off. He will be massive again for us this season.

26 Jul 2017 16:46:57
Starting mid would most likely be hendo, keita and lallana but I think it's healthy competition and wiji could easily displace lallana. I'd be surprised if we kept coutinho but brought in Keita.

26 Jul 2017 12:53:14
Ed002, you mentioned some 'true sports journalists' who tend to have good/ reliable information. Can you name some for Liverpool? Or is that Paul Joyce, James Pearce, Melissa reddy?

Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - I have seen all of their names but don't know any of them - obviously two were amongst those briefed by Klopp about players he wanted unsettled.}

26 Jul 2017 12:28:34
Just reading some interesting stats on Chelseas loan situation

Now they have players in 5 different premier league sides, (so I read )
Meaning 5 teams will be weaker playing against Chelsea as these loan players can't play against you.
Although not illegal is it moral ambiguity?

Not trying to make out Chelsea are Russian gangsters or any thing before ed 2 chews me out.
But what's people's thoughts.

Could you buy the 19 best strikers in the world. Loan one two every club in the league and effectively give yourself an easier path to the title.

Over egging this I know, but keen on people's thoughts.

{Ed002's Note - You understand that the majority of the players out on loan have either never or rarely played for the first team - they are kids? One exception is Loftus-Cheek who Chelsea would rather have sold. Obviously experienced players such as Markovic and Sakho were out on loan from Liverpool and others had players out on loan as well. And Chelsea has not quite finished loaning players to the Premier League this season - but it is not for the purpose of gaining any sort of benefit, it is to give them experience in a competitive league.}

26 Jul 2017 13:14:15
This is the best secret service spy agency conspiracy I've read for a while. It's great! Chelsea have done great to get their kids loans at prem clubs, I wonder what they do differently to us? Or maybe their kids are just better!?

{Ed002's Note - Chelsea has a plan for the kids which often involves loans - Liverpool's approach is rather more ad hoc.}

26 Jul 2017 14:05:07
Loaning your players to premier league clubs are the best loans if the player plays regularly for the team he's loaned to. He gains what you want him to gain-valuable premier league experience. It's not rocket science. or a conspiracy!

{Ed001's Note - he does have a point though, having players loaned from any club to another alters the competitive balance. Imo loans should be scrapped and teams should just stop stockpiling young players.}

26 Jul 2017 15:03:55
Grujic would surely have benefited from an EPL loan,
Suso would have done in the past too.

It's clear we don't have a structured approach to loans.

{Ed002's Note - Grujic's situation is slightly odd so that would have been very unlikely.}

26 Jul 2017 14:58:41
I'm with you Ed1. Zouma is a very well respected defender who will make stoke (hard to break down at the best of times), harder for everyone else but easier for Chelsea as they will have to break their regular partnership to play. ( I'm assuming Kurt is guaranteed regular playing time or wouldn't have gone there) . Anti competitive process imo, Same league loans should not be allowed, it does cause overbuying by silly money teams.

{Ed001's Note - I am not talking about specifically Chelsea or specifically same league loans, I am talking in general terms. Being able to loan out players allows the bigger clubs to get an edge over the smaller ones, as they can hold the registration of more players than they otherwise would be able to. That makes it difficult for the smaller clubs to build a squad to challenge the bigger clubs.}

26 Jul 2017 15:11:05
Yes Chelsea obviously have a good system when it comes to loan players etc. But I must admit I find it terrible they stock pile all these young players who never see 1st team football. Am I right in saying they had almost 40 players on loan last season? If true that's a joke and you would have to question any youngsters decision to go there really.

{Ed002's Note - The youngster get very good opportunities compared to what they would do at a club like Liverpool that has little or no development stucture for younger players except occasion games in the junior and reserve sides. The Chelsea players have had the opportunity to play regurarly in the first or second tiers of English, Dutch, Belgium and French leagues - sometimes elsewhere. Perhaps rather than suggesting what Chelsea do very successfully is a "joke" then you should look at what Liverpool do very poorly.}

26 Jul 2017 15:35:49
Ed Two you say chelseas players on loan gain valuble experience in top leagues from being loaned out by Chelsea, but wouldn't they gain the same experience if Chelsea didn't recruit so many players giving these other teams opportunity to buy them or develop them themselfes.

This is not a dig at Chelsea nor a way of deflecting liverpools short comings. Just interested to hear your opinion. All though I do think ake, RLC, chabaloa, baker, Abraham should have been something for Chelsea to have in the squad this season to build for the future.

Cheers.

{Ed002's Note - You do realise how ridiculous your first comment is? The club wanted to hang on to Chalobah and Ake but they both wanted first team foortball on a regular basis - Chelsea can't give such guarantees. Abraham and Baker have never played for the first team and are not ready to play for the first team on any sort of regular basis at Chelsea. Chelsea would happily have sold RLC but there were no takers.}

26 Jul 2017 15:37:33
Ed002 how many of those players loaned out to gain experience end up in Chelsea's first team as a result? pretty low to zero. so let's not pretend that the righteous Chelsea program is to provide a ready made answer to their long term playing plans - its to sweep up the talent and sell on under the Chelsea 'we made em good' banner!

A good commercial angle I will grant you, but basically amoral if not immoral.

{Ed002's Note - Plenty have played for the first team after being loaned out, Loftus-Cheek, Ake, Chalobah, Bertrand, Courtois is a regular etc.. You can take a dig at Chelsea because I guess you are jealous of their success because it is planned and where players have need to move on the money they have made - certailnly in comparison to the ad hoc approach Liverpool use.. But at the end of the day the players get good experience.

Did Ojo, Kent, Flanagan, Awoniy, Allan, Markovic, Sakho, Balotelli, Randall, Chirivella, Bogdan, Ward and Brannagan all go on loan? Yes, of course they did.}

26 Jul 2017 15:42:51
So you agree that a team is right to stockpile upto or over 40 players with little or no chance to ever play for team they have signed for (Chelsea)? And ed002 iam in no way suggesting lfc system is better etc you have jumped to that conclusion. I nevereven mentioned lfc in my post! I have a few friends who support Chelsea and they all agree on my said point and they don't even know half the players they have on loan!

{Ed002's Note - The post id on the Liverpool page and it is just the usual whining about Chelsea. I have not said anything about right and wrong. Liverpool have had plenty of players on loan recently which you seem to forget. Chelsea has a planned approach to the development of players - Liverpool doesn't - Ojo, Kent, Flanagan, Awoniy, Allan, Markovic, Sakho, Balotelli, Randall, Chirivella, Bogdan, Ward and Brannagan. Ibe and Stewart - they got loans and moved on.

Maybe if your friends knew anything of the club they support then perhaps they would know the players.}

26 Jul 2017 16:35:03
Fair enough ed002 you are clearly not getting the point. And making it an us v them when that was never what i wanted. Id say same thing if it was lfc or swansea for that matter. I also praised Chelsea for having a good system in place. I just don't agree that its fair or right to just stock pile an obscene amount of players. And naming 16 players over a 2/ 3 year period that lfc have loaned out. Am talking about around 40 players last year alone! Anyway I shall leave it at that as football is about opinions, and regardless if we disagree on some things, I still love the site and think you eds are great and am grateful for work you all do.

{Ed002's Note - Ah, so it is not fair to Liverpool are you saying. Is that because Liverpool don't have a good enough youth system and a development plan for players. Perhaps you need to look at Liverpool getting better rather than dragging everyone else down to the same level.}

26 Jul 2017 16:56:39
The loan system is by and large misused and is damaging to football, particularly to the smaller teams who don't have the financial muscle of a side like Liverpool or Chelsea for example.

What Chelsea do in stockpiling youngsters is damaging and wrong in my opinion. However, I do not agree with how most major clubs use the loan system.

It needs a major revamp to make sure it is fit for purpose which right now it isn't.

26 Jul 2017 17:03:46
Oh dear ed002 try reading what people say! You've twisted what I have said and neglected the points we all make. We are very much aware of lfc shortcomings and I will repeat again you brought up lfc when this discussion was a general one, granted on a lfc page. But I made it clear in my earlier reply as I said I'd feel same if it was Swansea etc just my opinion and obviously a lot of football fans opinion Inc some of Chelsea's own!

{Ed002's Note - The post is the LIVERPOOL page. We get it, you feel hard done by.}

27 Jul 2017 01:11:13
Thanks for replies and info. As a Liverpool fan, I'm jealous of Chelsea system.
It seems like a well oiled almost self funding system. Percentages state they will find a super star.

My original post was not intended to say Liverpool are hard done by.

Ed 1 put it better by suggesting it creates an imbalance.

Just thought it would be interesting topic away from the nonsense.

So ultimately what is wrong with our youth system?
Why aren't we doing similar?
Geography pull?

{Ed002's Note - The youth system is OK - the problem is a lack of structure.}

26 Jul 2017
New image uploaded to the
Liverpool Player Sightings page entitled, Keita spotted in the city for a photo shoot (or a photo shop)

26 Jul 2017 11:29:40
I guess the fat kid from Bolton was right all along :)

26 Jul 2017 11:59:45
Haha quality.

26 Jul 2017 10:46:15
Lfc should offer 35-40 million for VVD and throw sakho in as well everyone would be happy then 👍.

26 Jul 2017 11:27:43
But what if Southampton don't want Sakho? Just give them the money.

26 Jul 2017 11:42:49
Question for Ed001 if they are about. Would it be a feasible deal that could happen between us and saints? Or is there no interest in sakho from them? And would sakho be interested in making the move?

{Ed001's Note - talk about deja vu! They have shown no interest in Sakho, this has been done to death mate.}

26 Jul 2017 11:51:03
Maybe Barry. For me sakho is a proven premier league cb just look how well he did at palace last season! Southampton would be getting a great replacement for VVD and 40 million. But that's just my opinion. Like you said there might be no interest whatsoever in which case we should stump up the cash and get on with it 👍.

26 Jul 2017 11:57:37
Can't we force them to accept the player swap?

26 Jul 2017 12:18:58
Thanks Ed001 and apologies for the repeat question didn't realise it had be done 👍.

{Ed001's Note - no worries, it was done over and over when all this started.}

26 Jul 2017 10:20:04
Coutinho will not be leaving this season. I'm told he's very happy and is not interested in going to Barcelona at the moment.

Of course all situations can change in future but for at least 1 year (though I expect more knowing what I know about coutinho) he will remain a Liverpool player.

He has always been interested in Barcelona but he has said both publicly and privately that he would like to win some trophies with Liverpool before possibly moving on.

26 Jul 2017 10:32:20
I think given how he's positioned in Liverpool side and with th fans, and securing a growing status in the international team now as a result, I hope he'd be keen to stay, watch his star rise further, cement a leading place in Brazil national team for the WC then move next year. moving now is not without risks to him.

26 Jul 2017 11:19:40
What is it you know about Coutinho which leads you to expect he will stay longer than one year if you don't mind my asking?

26 Jul 2017 12:24:33
"I'm told he's very happy and is not interested in going to Barcelona at the moment. "

"He has always been interested in Barcelona "

These 2 statements in the same post. Something doesn't add up to me.

26 Jul 2017 12:44:35
I disagree, Ron.

I've always been interested in the Bahamas, but I'm not interested in going this year.

If Nevada is to be believed, Pipco is interested in securing success at his clubs before ultimately fulfilling the lifelong ambition that most south american footballers hold of playing for Barcelona (or RM) .

I respect him for that, if that is indeed the case, and hope that he can help us get some sustained success over the next 2-3 seasons before making the trip to Spain, hopefully with our best wishes, and in return for a very large bushel of notes.

26 Jul 2017 13:06:35
Gutted Zed, I will have to find someone else to take with me 😩.

26 Jul 2017 15:07:40
Just take your 'zeddicus' shirt and I'll be there with you in spirit 😉😘.

26 Jul 2017 07:43:15
Ed002. You said the other day that Liverpool could possibly be interested in goretzka if kieta was no longer an option.

Would it become possible for them to become interested if can was to leave and still have interest in Keita?

{Ed002's Note - I have no idea but the club cannot keep adding players without other leaving.}

26 Jul 2017 08:45:10
Just thinking out loud so don't shoot me down, if Pipco went, would you take Dele Alli?

Yes I know he's happy at Spurs and yes I know they wouldn't sell to us, but he's a Liverpool fan and we've got the cash.

26 Jul 2017 08:53:12
Well that's who we ought to sort it out if we lose him. They would sell for a price and he would join us. Still think coutinho will give us another year.

26 Jul 2017 09:06:04
Why would alli swap spurs for liverpool?

26 Jul 2017 09:06:16
I like Alli but not sure if he would replace the creativity that Coutinho gives us.

26 Jul 2017 09:18:20
We need to be consistently competing to be able to attract players from direct rivals. Currently, Spurs are competing more than we are.

26 Jul 2017 09:18:45
I would take alli at Liverpool. Don't like his attitude though.
As someone rightly said, why swap spurs for Liverpool?

I'd like asensio if coutinho goes. Never going to happen though.

26 Jul 2017 09:49:58
Dele Ali is/ was a Liverpool fan. It's an absolute long shot, but I could imagine that to be a reason why he may swap one day. But I imagine the next step for him is a super club.

26 Jul 2017 10:20:53
We missed our chance on Ali when we had the chance to sign him before he went to spurs.

26 Jul 2017 10:45:27
I can't even think how much Spurs would want for Delli Alli right now. North of 100 million in this market? English club to English club, young, in form.

26 Jul 2017 11:05:12
Alli would not move to LFC now. He will have one eye on Real, Bayern or Barcelona in a couple of seasons (unless Spurs miraculously start winning trophies or FSG throw 500k a week in his lap) .
Nor would he fit into the 4-3-3 Klopp prefers to play.
Gut feeling is Klopp always saw Keita as Coutinho's long term replacement.

26 Jul 2017 11:17:31
Be nice of we had alli seen up before he went to spurs.

26 Jul 2017 12:03:02
The price for Alli would be eye watering, close to 100million at least, and Levy ain't a mug he doesn't let players leave on the cheap. If it was feasible I would definitely take him though the lad is class.

26 Jul 2017 12:03:02
The price for Alli would be eye watering, close to 100million at least, and Levy ain't a mug he doesn't let players leave on the cheap. If it was feasible I would definitely take him though the lad is class.

26 Jul 2017 12:04:04
Ericsson would be a better buy for us than Alli.

26 Jul 2017 08:13:02
Stories of Barcelona tapping up anyone?
Nah surely not 🤔.

26 Jul 2017 12:29:48
God no, sure only Liverpool do that,

25 Jul 2017 21:22:33
Hi Ed
I get that the papers spin stories to increase their readership hence I take most stories with a pinch of salt however I have to ask you about the whole approach for couts by Barcelona . I can't believe that Barcelona are so desperate to appease Neymar that he basically has the power to suggest if not effect their transfer targets . I have heard similar stories with regards to Ronaldo at Madrid . If true I find it appalling. that players can yield so much influence on clubs . What is your opinion mate? Is this the trend of the future? If so what can be done to rectify this as it is ruining the game. As always I I respect your opinion and I sincerely hope you respond . I am also interested to hear the opinion of fellow Reds .

Thank you.

Ps / special mention to Ed 25 for his light hearted often humorous responses to posters . Closet Red methinks.

{Ed025's Note - i cant see couts going anywhere just yet piaray, he seems very happy at liverpool and as much as im sure he would like to play with his mate he is a pro and if liverpool live up to his expectations he will stay...and there is more chance of finding rocking horse crap than me becoming a red mate.. :)

26 Jul 2017 07:17:58
🐴💩
🏆.

26 Jul 2017 07:40:56
Ed025 has got to be my favorite Toffee. Expects us to sign Keita, VVD, keep Coutinho. Somewhere deep down, i think u bleed red although u may not know it yet.

{Ed025's Note - i will never be a bleedin red IB.. :)

26 Jul 2017 08:05:41
Haha, you will come out of the closet once LFC win the BPL.

{Ed025's Note - the closet will be full of woodworm by the time that happens i expect IB.. :)

26 Jul 2017 00:32:28
Would it be fair to say that Verratti is their first choice Ed002?

If PSG want Neymar and Barcelona want Verratti, I'm not sure why it's so difficult for them to complete these transfers. But I guess such dealings are more complex than a mere swap + cash.

{Ed002's Note - Yes on bot counts.}

26 Jul 2017 00:39:40
Supposedly there's lingering bad blood between Barcelona and Verratti's agent going back to the Ibrahimovic days. Therefore, the obstacle in getting Verratti to Barca. Read it somewhere. (Ed002 will confirm or deny this) .

{Ed002's Note - There are two issues but not related to that.}

26 Jul 2017 00:18:10
Ed002, can I ask if Neymar transfer is at all related to Barcelona approach for coutinho? I don't want to get into money side of things but if I remember correctly I read on here some time ago that giving Messi a new contract would financially be very expensive to them and id they didn't sell Neymar would they be able to complete let's say a €100m transfer for coutinho aswel as what they have already spent? (I think they recently purchased semedo from benfica and I'm not sure if they have bought anyone else)

{Ed002's Note - It is nothing to do with it - Barcelona want an Iniesta replacement and Coutinho is second choice and has been for a long time - and they cannot get their first pick. They do need to move players on and will be doing that.}

26 Jul 2017 04:17:27
Who is first pick? I was going to hazard a guess. but Hazard actually was my guess.

{Ed002's Note - Verratti.}

26 Jul 2017 11:12:58
Would anything rule Liverpool out of bidding for Verratti then?
Just curious that if he is that good of player then why not replace coutinho with Barca's first choice that they were unable to sign. Unless the same issues they have with signing him would also prevent us doing so aswell.

{Ed002's Note - Liverpool has no interest in Verratti and I would think there is no chance whatsoever that he would be interested in a move to Liverpool.}