Liverpool Banter Archive November 26 2013

26 Nov 2013 20:47:08
Hi Ed 01, liked your comments yesterday on our midfield and have to agree with you. A quick question if I may, I know that you think that Rafa was overly defensive often playing two holding midfielders, so given that you think we should have bought Medel ( looks good ) how would you see our midfield set up?
Just wondering if you would play him and Lucas together or some other combination? {Ed001's Note - I would play him and Lucas together, but just give Lucas more freedom to get forward and influence the play. Medel is very good at a similar role to Alonso, dropping deep and spraying passes, he can also break up play. That would allow Lucas to be able to be more advanced when we have the ball, to carry it forward into the attacking third.}

So Ed would you (hypothetically) take Alonso back and do exactly the same? Play Alonso further back and let Lucas move forward? {Ed001's Note - yes, but Alonso is on 3 times the wage, is a lot slower and older too. Medel would make more sense at this time. Though I do love Xabi and it would make my year if we did sign him.}

Thanks for the reply Ed, and I agree with you. People forget that Lucas was a very highly regarded, infact award winning midfielder in a more advanced role back in Brasil when we bought him. He's just converted himself into such a good holding player.
With Medel now at Cardiff is there anyone else you would consider as a decent buy for the role?

27 Nov 2013 08:31:55
ED01, Is medal and Allen DLP? {Ed001's Note - no, Medel is more than that, though he is playing that role currently for Cardiff, he can play in almost any position you need. Allen is not suited to the deep lying role, he needs to be on the ball in the opposition's third of the field, with movement ahead of him. Though he can, like Medel, also take on that role.}

27 Nov 2013 11:12:19
ED01. Superb. So If medal comes in our side you wanna partner him with Lucas?, I mean Lucas hardly goes forward, even though he gets the room.
I would rather partenr him with Hendo or Allen. {Ed001's Note - IF, and it is a massive if, Medel were to be signed, I would like Lucas to be given more freedom to get forward. Right now, he is following his instructions to the letter and providing cover to the defence. I don't think that is his natural game at all, though he has learnt to play it extremely well, and given the freedom to get forward, I think he could be even better. It must be remembered, we signed him as an attacking midfielder, and he was a top talent in Brazil in that role.}

27 Nov 2013 12:48:43
And that's coz, Gerrard has been so poor for us, yes he has a no of assist, But he has been terrible most games.
he miss 40-50 mts of every game, and they say Suarez miss 5-6 gmaes every season

Ed001, do we even have any interest in Medel though? {Ed001's Note - unfortunately, no. I can hope though!}

Ed do you think Lucas has the speed, stamina and creativity any more so fulfil a more attacking role? I mean he has been playing this defensive midfield role for a number of seasons now and has noticeably slowed since his serious injury - what you say would have made a lot of sense 3-4seasons ago but now I am not sure Lucas would be able to bring anything to our play in attack. Would imagine with him and Medel in midfield that our defensive would be more sturdy though, swings and roundabouts I guess. {Ed001's Note - you don't need speed and stamina to be useful in an attacking role, though I have seen no sign of Lucas lacking stamina, so I have no idea why you mentioned that. As for creativity, the few times he has been able to get forward, he has slotted excellent through balls into feet, they show signs that he still has the vision and ability to pick the pass we need. I don't see Coutinho as having any more speed than him and he is excellent in an attacking role. So yes, I do think Lucas still has it, I just think he would be a more balanced player than our other current options in there. He wouldn't be wandering about blowing hard after 5 minutes, like Gerrard was in the Derby, because he had been pressing, he also would not go missing defensively like Stevie does. Though he doesn't have Gerrard's delivery from set pieces, nor his range of passing, when Gerrard is on form. He wouldn't have the engine to get up and down like Henderson, but I would hope we would have the attacking players ahead and on the wings to do that for him.}

It's an interesting proposition and one I'd be happy to see deployed. Having an alternate defensive midfielder (as Lucas would be more advanced) would be essential though. Hypothetically if we did sign Medel (I know no indication we will but for arguments sake) who would you drop from our midfield, Gerrard or Henderson? Gerrard does have a better set piece delivery and when on song better passing range however Henderson's overall form and contribution has been arguably better and certainly more consistent - would be a tough call. {Ed001's Note - for me Gerrard would be more effective coming off the bench and being allowed to charge around like the Gerrard of old for the last half hour or so of a match.}

Gotta say I agree with Ed001 on Gerrard. He's been our best player for a long, long time and still has plenty to offer the team but he doesn't seem to maintain his performance for a full 90 anymore. After this season (hopefully retired from international duty) I'd love to see him taken off after we have games in the bag or brought off the bench as an impact player. We need to start looking at the midfielders for the next 5 years and beyond and find our best combination. There will always be room for even a half-fit Steven Gerrard in the side but maybe not for the full 90 mins

Hard to imagine Gerrard being happy with a role off the bench though eh? Although perhaps he will warm to it as he gets older - he must realise himself he can't do everything he was doing 5 years ago eh.

26 Nov 2013 18:33:19
Ed002 any chance you could do me a favour ifdforgot my passed (my phone keeps me signed in) got a new phone and can't remember my password to get back in if you can see it some how any chance you could email it to me thanks

{Ed033's Note - We don't know what your password is because it is encrypted using md5 hash. If you have forgotten your password, you can go to the forgot password page, where your password will be changed automatically and will be emailed that password.

http://mobile.liverpool-rumours.co.uk/forgotpass.php

Sorted thanks a million

26 Nov 2013 17:54:17
Wish people would shut up saying allen isn't good enough,
brilliant for Swansea, our best player when he first joined.
you don't turn into a bad player overnight.
he was carrying a shoulder injury then was laid off injured long term and is now finding his feet again & will become a very important player for us this season,
I bet he even bags a few goals,
mark my words.

Our best player in a side that was dreadful and completely out of form. He had half a dozen good games and once the team started performing well, he disappeared.

I don't dislike the lad but he just isn't as good as some make out. He looks good in a mediocre side, hardly a glowing endorsement. He's never dominated a game and I honestly think Henderson is a much better option.

27 Nov 2013 10:05:46
I agree that Henderson is a better option now Ken, totally.
Would you have said that last season though? With Hendo struggling and Allen excelling?
I think the point the OP is trying to make is form comes and goes, Allen's played so little football this season and is now trying to get into the side with all midfielders doing ok.
I appreciate your not having a dig at him mate, I personally think he can be a cracking player and have an impact similar to Ramsey's, who up until this season was a shocking footballer with questionable technique, anybody else remember those dodgy penalties in the Olympics?

27 Nov 2013 11:15:20
Aguero Spot On.

I too feel the same, No isssues with Allen, . His glory days were first part of the last seaosn, we are almost half way down this season. He has just become another Anderson for me (both in terms of Price and Performance).

27 Nov 2013 11:19:07
Welsh Boy.

You simply cannot compare Arsenal with Liverpool Now, we are in break or make away season to be in top4, All we need is a good 20 games left, I would personally buy a top Class CM in Jan, and if it requires sacrifice someone then Allen should be the first one.
Arsenal never cared ramsy, because they were doing pretty well on the pitch regardless.
henderson has improved and I would bring him as an Impact sub every game, But he isn't the one to control the game, Sorry he doesn't have it,
We need Two top class players, A LW and CM

Sorry but Allen had half a dozen good games and that's it. That isn't good enough for our club - he needs to improve, his hasn't improved and performances have steadily declined, this is not a success story. I'm all in favour of giving players time but they have to start showing something when selected - Henderson is miles ahead in the picking order at the moment and for good reason. Even Shelvey would be ahead of him if he was still at the club - if he doesn't improve and start performing then I fear his Anfield career is going to be short lived.

I thought that miss in the derby was very unfortunate as well - it will knock his confidence badly and it's a shame considering he was putting in a decent shift up until that point, hopefully he can shake that miss off.

Ken,

no disrespect but perhaps you should give allen a little longer before casting him aside? you site henderson as a better option (which I agree with at this time) but i'm sure you like many others thought henderson wasn't good enough to grace anfield before BR took over?

also, not sure if you are aware or not but yaya toure said it was one of the toughest 90mins he played against joe allen last season. just saying

Allen is dreadful! how is he missing the complete target in the position he was in? he didn't even work the keeper, that miss alone I want him out the club. was as bad as torres miss for chelsea. how much does he make? I would of finished that chance 99 times out of 100 {Ed001's Note - so 1 miss makes a player rubbish does it? Clueless.}

Allen was having a good game until his miss. Had he scored then everyone would have been up his backside.
I like him. I like players who want to keep the ball. At least he got in the position to miss it.
He has had injuries and at times it looks like he has the weight of the world on his shoulders but I think we should continue to support him and then he might grow into a player which we were not expecting to see.
Someone said he was as bad as Anderson. Behave. No-one is that bad!

Good luck to Allen, I hope he does prove himself, but at present he is way down the pecking order and I can't see him forcing his way back into the team unless our season falls apart and everyone loses form. Hope that doesn't happen.

See in that position I pass the ball, if u are not sure don't even try, hm this could backfire to me, . but I played a lil bit, and I do have a good shoot in my left leg, that chance was a sitter, you shoot and score or risk and pass the ball to suarez. he left empty on that chance but if he gets 2-3 times in a match in that position and scores then who cares ->he will be a sucess won't he?

26 Nov 2013 12:42:05
Ed, 001 who would be the ideal midfield maestro that you would like to sign come january?
It seems you rate Medel pretty highly but there is no chance of him.
Amongst fernando (porto), matuidi, lars bender & matic all good players but different styles I would prefer matuidi if that was a viable option though Matic seems to have the highest potential. {Ed001's Note - it would be Bender for me, preferably both brothers if we could get them, as they look to have complimentary playing styles.}

Ross B?

The Bender Brothers.! Uhumm Ed?
Both great players and I totally agree with your opinion.
Wot a great partnership they sound though. ;0)

I quite like Fernando but have to agree with ed, if we could sign the benders our midfield would be immeasurably improved.

26 Nov 2013 14:22:14
Hey eds and reds. I was thinking this morning that mata would be the best possible acquisition we could get. That being said, it's highly unlikely he would come to us for various reasons, Chelsea wouldn't sell anyways unless it benefitted em. So, would you trade Suarez for mata and say 15 mill? I don't want Suarez gone but I'd like to benefit if he is. Just some banter! {Ed002's Note - There is a slim chance that Mata would go on loan in January but the club are not looking for any exchange with Suarez.}

Any chance he would be heading to Liverpool I highly doubt it myself {Ed002's Note - Zero. It is pointless explaining the same thing over and over to you.}

26 Nov 2013 15:31:17
Mata is a very good player, Infact a supreme talent,
But common trading him with Suarez for 15 mill?
Saurez is a goal scoring amchine, which produce goals anywhere given electricity and supply.
He would score goals, If he wears red, blue, yellow or any shirts.
we must Buy mata and play alongidse Countinho and suarez. That should be enough for Top4.

I never said he'd be coming to Liverpool. I'm just saying that's about the only scenario they'd consider. IMO. But anyways, Harry we won't be getting him. I think we are good enough for top 4 anyways

26 Nov 2013 16:58:31
Tj red
Now that's Sheer Confidence.

Harry I wouldn't say it's confidence if we can keep suarez and sturridge we have as much chance as all the other too teams. And we look very good atm out of Man U arsenal and Everton 4 points I would take that any day

26 Nov 2013 10:19:10
Y does people wants Suso back?. The lad is doing good at spain, and common where is he going to play?. There is no point in bringing a world class ACM if we continue to field gerrard and lucas in the middle. we would still conceede goals and will have 0 control on the match.

A) because he still a Liverpool player and would improve the squad
b) because he brings cover for the Coutinho role, the role which we missed badly when Coutinho was out injured.
c) because out scoring the opposition usually wins games and get you more points . have you noticed how many more goals we have scored this year so far and how the results have gone and pehaps the impact on our position in the table? any idea . no?

I think you need to take a look through every post you make, then take a break from this site. You contradict yourself over and over

People keep giving Gerrard a hard time. I think he's capable of playing higher up still. I also think it would be devastating to team morale to not have him in. He may be getting old, but what would Liverpool be without Stevie? Who deserves to be in a top Liverpool side more than him? And last but not least, who would work harder than Steven Gerrard to get one last shot at a title?

Harry
Suso has been playing very well in Spain which I am sure you are aware of?
Next season I would would love the club to welcome him back with open arms.
He will probably rotate with coutinhio or play along side, depending on the chosen formations. But he is by no means not good enough to play for us!
I think Suso has it all and I hope next season he is a first team player that will rip the league apart! Ynwa

I think another loan spell next season to a better team would be better. Allow him to develop to the pressures and demands of first team football at a bigger club where he will be used. This would be better for both LFC and Suso in the long run.

we don't want him to come back next year and have a similar role to the one Luis Alberto or even Allen has now.

@harry

because he is playing very well and gives us another attacking midfield option. Squad depth will be vital in deciding our final league position, hardly rocket science.

@ tjred

he is being given a hard time because he isn't playing well. positioning has been poor, passing very unpredictable, contribution to the team quite limited. I don't think playing him in a more attacking position is a terrible idea I just fear he simply doesn't have the legs to harry and hassle in the final third like Henderson - and I think our system would suffer without that.

25 Nov 2013 22:52:08
Hi eds just wondering on your thoughts on 2 players for midfield mulombu of west brom and and zonzi of stoke how do you rate them and would either be attainable. Also who would you like to see signed in that position {Ed001's Note - I am not impressed with N'Zonzi, but Mulumbu looks better every time I see him play. He offers pace, power, workrate and looks solid positionally. My only worry is about his ability on the ball, is it good enough for us? I am not sure, though he does seem to have a decent range of passing.}

26 Nov 2013 12:17:10
N'Zonzi is below average and just kicks the opposition off the pitch. He is only in your mind due to subconcious MOTD fever. However Mulumbu is a very good player. I said before the West Brom game we needed to counter Mulumbu and Jacob to beat them. They are the heart of West Broms team. Both are great midfielders.

YNWAdam

Told you 2 seasons ago Mulumbu was worth a look but all I got was "he plays for west brom so can't possibly be good enough for us" from fans and Eds alike {Ed002's Note - Could you point me at my saying that Chris?}

I think N'Zonzi ia alrite - strong, gets forward well, decent passing range, good in the tackle. I know he is a volatile player but not sure that should take away from his ability, I think he's decent. Mulumbu seems to be getting better and better, either one would be an interesting signing (though not sure they'd be good enough for a team chasing CL qualification and more).