Liverpool Banter Archive December 27 2014

 

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27 Dec 2014 22:35:03
If Real Madrid have mapped out their ins and outs do Liverpool feature in any of their plans and if we do is Sterling going in Jan or the Summer?

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{Ed002's Note - No.}

Why should Liverpool care what Real Madrid or any other team has planned, we should really be talking about our team.

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Only stupidly-run clubs care what other teams are doing.

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28 Dec 2014 22:27:29
Thought it would be obvious. Eds keep saying Real have set plans both in and out and if they decide that they want Sterling we will struggle to keep him. Also one of their plans might be selling one of their players to us, hence the question. I don't believe it isrealistic to uphold players contracts when a marquee club comes in for them. Unfortunatly we are not a marquee club anymore and gave a long way to go still to repair the damage of Hicks and Gillette

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{Ed002's Note - Right now I would not worry about losing RS to Real Madrid in the next two windows.}

27 Dec 2014 20:28:39
Compare the aspirations, size and stature of two clubs - Palace & Liverpool. Then consider who out of the two manager's is failing the most. Then consider who ended up being sacked. Truly, there is no justice in this world.

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Red there is a whole lot more than BR that is wrong with LFC, every season someone messes up big time,
can someone tell me the last time we made a really good start tothe season,
when the fans were really happy not just with the team, but the manager, owners, plans,
it will take years to put right what so many have put wrong,
we always do things the hard way,
we had ONE big chance to win the premiership, and we blew it,
yet still we have a massive fan base, some of the best fans in the world, all wanting the best for our team,
and someone always messes up,
maybe one season, we will have a great pre-season, buy in great players, just were we need them, keep our best younger players, and have a manager who starts the season playering attacking football, hey, I can dream can't I .

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27 Dec 2014 19:40:59
Sorry but i'm getting confused as to why people - including Ed002 - are stating that loaning out our players is just "knee jerk reaction". Most of the players that have gone out on loan are young and need experience. In the summer, Ilori would have never gotten a chance over Skrtel, Sakho and Lovren. Then you've got Toure for cover. The same with Sebastian Coates and Andre Wisdom who have had game time, they're just not good enough and definitely not better than anything we've got so we're trying to sell them. We won't get a good price for them if they're sat in our reserves will they?

Luis Alberto, Teixeira and Jordan Ibe, all attacking players. They need experience. None of them really had a chance but the point of the loan system is to get them experience for the first team. Not all players who are loaned out are out of favour!

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{Ed002's Note - Liverpool had no plan whatsoever for loaning out the players and there is no planned future growth for the players. It is pitiful to see such appalling business being doe at this level of the game.}

Thank you Ed. Great, honest response.

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It's not necessarily the loans themselves, it's the lack of planning and forethought in them. In some cases, it is also the loans that are foolish.

Wisdom, as an example. You say he's not good enough, then we should have already sold him if that's the case. Personally I think he's plenty good enough to be backup to Johnson/Flanagan right now instead of loaning in Manquillo, which, for me, was a massive waste of money.

Another example would be Ilori- at one point after he came into the team, we had no available CBs for the bench due to injury. Did Ilori make the 18 man squad on that day? Nope, sat in the stands. I suspect this is the point at which he decided he had made a massive mistake accepting the move to Liverpool- from being pretty consistently in the first team to not even being able to make our bench after many injuries. So, we loan him out. Then buy Lovren, loan him out again. Clearly the kid, even if he wants one and I doubt he does at this point, has no future here under the current management structure.

Assaidi, Aspas, Alberto, Teixeira, Suso last season, Wisdom, Borini, Coates, even going back as far as Pacheco- all suffering more or less the same fate, never really given a chance and being deemed not good enough eventually moving on for relative peanuts after several poor loans with no plan for their future and little to no chance for them to actually try to break into the first team. Poor signings and gross mismanagement of the younger players seems to be our way and if I were a 16-22 year old player there is zero chance I would sign for LFC unless it was obvious I was going straight into the first team.

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If the manager had not bought both Sakho and Lovren, then maybe Ilori or Coates would have got more game time, the same could be said of the two spanish fullbacks, did we need them both, if any, tho I do think that jordan Ibe had a great pre-season, and in my view deserved a place in the first team squad, he would have been much better than most of the forwards who have played this season .

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I'm sure the club must have some plan for these players weather it be to gain experience or look to sell them on.

With the exception of Ibe I would say most would move on as in my opinion are not good enough.

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{Ed002's Note - The loans do not form part of any plan.}

28 Dec 2014 08:44:28
Ed002, would you go as far to say that the nature of the business done to date with young players could in fact tarnish LFC's future reputation and detract from attracting young talent.

With Sterling and Flanno being the only kids seemingly getting a chance in the first team in recent times and 95% of the £7-12 mill punts on young talent not working out, why would young talent want to come to LFC?

It strikes me that the owners business model is not only to the detriment of the current squad but is also generating problems for the future.

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{Ed002's Note - This is to some extent a double edged sword Ozone. I can give you an example or two. (a) Firstly kids will jump at the chance to get in to the academy of a club like Liverpool - particularly local kids. The academy has had a good reputation and like most (but not all) such set ups in England, few players make it through to the first team and others get released and get opportunities with other clubs where they can. I think this is well understood. (b) Moving on to those players who are a little older and beyond the academy set up - say 19 to 21. Clubs are looking to bring in players of this sort of age but are aware that most are not ready to drop right in to the first team set up. To overcome this, they need to map out a career path that often sees them go on loan. Some players understand and welcome this, others think they are ready for the first team already, and others have pushy parents or agents who wish to interfere. Taking each of these categories, and using examples where I can, I will try and explain what is commonly seen. (1) A plan can be developed for a player to go on loan to one and subsequently more clubs and be constantly monitored by the owning club. This may be a player liaison office (as used by Chelsea) or by someone from the club going along to some of the games. Chelsea tend to use ex-players in the player liaison role and it has worked well. They regularly report back on progress and then the players are assessed as to their being ready to bring in to the squad. I am aware that there has been criticism placed at the door of Liverpool in this liaison process - there is little point in going in to detail. One thing that can happen whilst players are on loan is that the loaning club and the player may want to make the move permanent and could well approach the owning club with a deal. I am not aware of this happening with Liverpool recently, but I am aware of an EPL side that has offers on the table for one player who is on loan and will get an offer for another in the coming days. This leads to an issue for the club and the decision whether they wish to stand in the way of a move or not. (2) Players who think they are ready for the first team, but are not, would do better to stay where they are to develop rather than make the move and be disappointed. Subsequently rebuilding a career elsewhere can be much harder. One time Spurs player John Bostock is a very good example of this. (3) Sometimes there are players who are doing very well in a less demanding league have agents or parents who want to push them in to a higher-level of the game without considering any planned development a club has in place for them. This is precisely the situation with Kramaric right now.

Clubs need to build a development plan for any youngsters they are bringing in - and exploit agreements with other clubs to send players on loan. This is where Liverpool has failed miserably and some players will get advice to avoid such situations - they should heed it.

The owners want to see the club brining players through and as part of the restructuring have already dealt with the academy. They need to find a way to deal with the 19-21 year old players now and should be looking to put a structure in place, or finding someone to put a structure in place, that facilitates the planned development of those players.}

Very interesting response ed, thanks for the richness of the info.

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Which is why a chap like De Boer is the likely coach for next yr IMO because he fits what FSG seem to want to build here because bringing players through the ranks is what the Ajax academy has done for decades which is what De Boer (an Ajax product himself) is still doing at the club ass we speak. If he is the guy the the owners should go get him.

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29 Dec 2014 12:56:16
Hi Ed002,

Just wanted to say thanks for this, it has given a real insight and shows a real area of development for the club if it is to become self sustainable in the future.

Regards

Crooky

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29 Dec 2014 12:56:50
Thanks for the detailed response Ed002, it strikes me LFC's shortcomings lie with the liaison process. There seems to be gross mismanagement at the core aspect of the player mentoring regime and I fear this could prove costly in later years if not addressed swiftly. Again it seems as though this failure is a consequence of stay away owners and fragmentation throughout the club.

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{Ed002's Note - You are not the only one who has noticed this Ozone. A couple of players have expressed surprise at the seeming lack of interest in them from the club and a couple of clubs have expressed concern that players they have on loan have not been subject to any interest being shown in them by Liverpool.}

29 Dec 2014 13:02:06
Thanks for the detailed response Ed002.

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27 Dec 2014 17:33:46
Good evening Eds

Hypothetically speaking, let's say We have a good run now until the end of the season and maybe win a cup and say finish 5th or 6th, do you suspect that will be enough to keep Rodgers his job or not?

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{Ed002's Note - Try the search engine.}

Nope.

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You think his time is up Reusch?

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Two cup finals in one season couldn't save Kenny

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Yes I do think his time is up, I'm a armchair fan I get to go to about 3-4 games a year, there are far far better people on here than me at scrutinising our play etc Brendan just seems deflated and some of the quotes he's coming out are rather embarrassing, he does definitely seem to have his favourite players hasn't he promised winning the league to the owners ? Which would obviously bring CL footy next year it's looking highly unlikely were going to achieve that.

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He is done and he knows it.

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Ha scouse, it would have to be hypothtically speaking, because the way some teams are just blowing us off the pitch, we will be lucky to finish 6th, and I am hoping that next season, we will have a much better team, and that includes the manager and his yes men,
so no cup-final this time but really hoping for a fresh start and like you said, maybe a cup .

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Cup just won't do in my book, not that we'd win anyway, you normally have to score goals to win matches and not concede, something we are incapable of under Rodgers.

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It's unlikely we'd do better, so if the answer is no, then why is he still here?

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27 Dec 2014 13:33:28
Hi Eds & Reds

Can anyone tell me please, where did Can play yesterday when he came on for Toure?

Also Eds it seems that Rodgers doesn't like to play with natural full backs/ wing backs like Moreno and Manquilo, so why buy them? Do you think the 3 centre backs is what he has settled on now?

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{Ed001's Note - right sided centre back Can played.}

Cheers

Did he look ok there? Has Moreno not impressed Rodgers with him being only sub recently?

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{Ed001's Note - he was ok, didn't look entirely comfortable though, but he was playing next to Skrtel with Mignolet behind him and Gerrard providing protection, so difficult to judge him.

Moreno has been caught out a few times defensively.}

Cheers Ed

Need to sort it out back there, Imo that a new Keeper who camands his box would improve us loads?

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{Ed001's Note - a keeper has to be number one priority, after a coach who won't destroy any ability he possesses is hired.}

Edd001, what's abit concerning is the goalkeepers we are interested it or have looked at are not top class IMO. I probably will lose patience and confidence in the club if the club cannot address an area we are appalling in. Year after year, Millions is blown.

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{Ed002's Note - I am not sure what goalkeepers you expect to be available in the short-term. Liverpool will be constrained by those that are up for grabs and either available to negotiate for a transfer when their contracts end in the summer (e.g. Neto and Romero) or available for a low fee in January (e.g. Ochoa and Ruddy), or already out of contract (e.g. Valdes).}

Ed001, do we hold interest in those names that you mentioned? I know you only mentioned them as examples, but just thought it'd be interesting to know.

Cheers.

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{Ed002's Note - All have been at least considered.}

27 Dec 2014 19:42:16
Sorry, I meant Ed002, not Ed001 lol.

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{Ed002's Note - I'll ask him.}

It really doesn`t matter who we get as the GK. Our GK coach. Scratch that! Do we even have a GK coach at the club? because Mingo and Jones are getting worse by the day YET we have a GK coach who IMO, is not improving them and helping them cut out the parts of their game where they are deficient. Even Neuer would struggle w / the happless GK coach we have right now.

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27 Dec 2014 13:37:23
Ed

I realise that January is a difficult time for transfers, how realistic is it that Lucas could leave to Italy please?

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{Ed002's Note - Try the search engine please.}

27 Dec 2014 10:52:48
Watching the game against burnley got me thinking. Is Rodgers trying to be too clever by trying to put square pegs in round holes? Most of the players were bought because they are good in the position that they have played for years. He thinks that he knows how to make them better players by playing them all over the place. No wonder some of the players look crap and the side looks disjointed. Hendo is not a wingback, neither is Markovich. Sterling is not a centre forward although the kid is giving his all in every game. Stop trying to be too clever and play the right players in the positions that they feel comfortable in, the positions that they were brought up playing. Confidence will be better and the players will play better. Yesterday I lost count of the number of times that 2 or 3 went for the same ball. Some of the players don't seem to know what they are supposed to be doing or where they are playing.

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27 Dec 2014 11:45:09
The problem is he bought good players but not the players we needed. All we needed was 3 players GK, CDM and a quality striker similar to Suarez (defo not the opposite ballotelli). If we had kept Agger gave the youth a chance around quality we would be up there fighting with Chelsea and City.

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Mixed views on this one.
Sometimes players, especially younger ones can benefit from being taken out of their comfort zones and they learn new skills as a result. Look at flanno, always a right back, then played at DM and LB and has become a better player as a result of the experience of actually getting a run in the side despite not always his strongest position.
Nobody thinks sterlings best position is up front like that, but he will at least get better at timing his runs and his composure in front of goal will improve.
So sometimes it will improve a players overall skill set.
However hendo has been played there before and failed, in fact he was almost sold for next to nothing because he was so terrible on the wing/wing back. He is clearly strongest in the middle and I don't see the point in playing him back on the sides as it will only deny his confidence and waste his talents again.
Markovic is at least getting a run in the side and any experience is good at his age, he might learn a bit from playing wing back.
Having said all that I completely agree with the whole too many square pegs, round holes argument. One or maybe 2 players in a team maybe as it can be beneficial to the player. but too many will cause major disruption and complete chaos in the teams shape and understanding, as we are seeing.
Rodgers mismanagement is criminal, migs being dropped "indefinitely" has made him worse not better, the defence is still shocking, the midfield is all over the place, Gerrard needs dropping and we need to play strikers rather than rely on sterling.

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All valid points. He is trying to reinvent the wheel by throwing so many things on the wall and see what sticks. Hendo and Marko are wasted at the WB position and SG is getting worse each game and has very little inpact in games, if any at all YET he will keep playing because well. He is SG. Our GK coach is a joke because Mingo and Jones are getting worse by the day. We are a mess regardless of the outcome of a game (like yesterday). IMO, BR is gone hence I`m just suporting my team and my club and the players who go out ther and give their all for the club.

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27 Dec 2014 10:30:37
Eds, do you know if we have Ben Garratt at Crewe on our scouting list - a great young keeper playing really well behind a really poor defence. He has been their star this year pulling off some world class saves and to tell the truth keeping the score down. I think he is a future England goal keeper - but hey what do I know!

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{Ed001's Note - he was a few years back, when he was just about 15 or 16, he was given the option to switch to our academy. I would hope that we have kept tabs on him, he has always been a potential top class keeper.}

Sounds like migs before he joined.
Shouldn't we look for a keeper that's good at organising a back 4?
If the defence in front of him is so poor doesn't that ring alarm bells, the keeper is an integral part of the defence.
Migs is a top shot stopper after all.

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27 Dec 2014 09:30:12
Hi Eds,

With Sturridge returning next month and a whole bunch of attacking midfielders(Coutinho, Sterling, Markovic, Lallana) with us, I do not understand Borini's stubborness in staying at Anfield. He is simply wasting his time and will get very limited chances to play. He can as well go to some other club and start performing. Any chances to sell him next month?

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{Ed002's Note - Borini wants to stay and get a chance at the club. Like numerous players Liverpool will not do that. However, the club may well decide to over-price him and simply mess up his career (in the same way they have done with Suso). I have explained where the interest in him is.}

What I don't understand is Rodgers stubbornness when needing a striker, not giving Borini a chance to show what he can do in run of games.

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Ed2 didn't Liverpool accept bid for Borini? Liverpool have bought players over priced so that's business.

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{Ed002's Note - Well if Liverpool want to keep overplaying for players they won't need to worry about Europe at all.}

27 Dec 2014 11:49:27
What I don't get is why you've pointed out we've got loads of attack midfielders when borini is a striker?

Why not borini and sturridge up front? Atleast try it but that's too much for Rodgers apparently.

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27 Dec 2014 14:31:41
Ed002, I'm confused about your comment of the club over pricing Borini. Did the club not accept 2 offers for him in the summer from Sunderland and QPR? Surely the club is well within its rights to optimise the sale value of its players. Sorry if I'm missing something here.

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{Ed002's Note - Borini's value is not what it was in the summer. Suso was desperate to leave but the club but his move was blocked by the price being asked - what has happened to him since? The club has been paying him and insuring him but not using him - now he can negotiate with other sides. It is simply mismanagement - like all of the players out on knee jerk loans.}

Hasn't Suso been injured?

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{Ed002's Note - Not for all of the time since the start of the season. He will be negotiating directly with other sides in January and I am sure will find a club that wants him.}

Have to agree with the Ed here, our planning is atrocious. We have an overabundance of players we have no idea what to do with (Aspas, Alberto, Ilori, Assaidi, Coates, etc.) so we send them out on ridiculous loans that aren't good for either us or them, a lot of talent in the younger ranks who can't get a sniff of a game (Suso, Teixeira, Jones, McLaughlin, Ibe, etc.), and then a pretty large senior squad that has a lot of quantity but lacks a bit in quality. It's just insane how much money we've spent on players and how many we actually have- I'd personally prefer a fairly static starting 11-13 or so of good to high quality players with kids/younger players being the backups to having 20-22 decent to good squad players who are all more or less interchangeable. I don't get all this talk of needing depth, I think we just need direction, a bit of common sense, and a roadmap to get the kids into the first team (or at least a glimmer of hope that they can do so).

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Im sick of the deluded fans that go on about the abundance of talent we have in the academy and how the future is great, despite the fact they have no evidence to suggest that we will ever give the kids a chance.

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Hence the mismanageent that the Ed speaks of. They will not be given a chance because we have no idea nor plan for their future. Proof? We buy players from other teams` academies to take their place while they get loaned out or rot in the reserves. If that is a plan then God help us. BR has no belief in the youth just like he has no trust in the players he himself, buys and as a result, we have a mismanaged squad as well as an academy that is there in name only.

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Suso has been injured since the end of september / start of october.

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We only need to make one positive move, bring in a new manager who will make all the right decisions, that is right for the team,
thats all .

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Think Suso and Teixeira looked incredibly bright prospects and like they could add something to the current squad - a great shame (and a damning indictment) of how the club is being run currently. The owners raft of changes cannot come quick enough - I hope they make the right decisions.

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We can always hope Seano

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27 Dec 2014 09:27:51
Out of interest, where does the general blame lie for our current goalkeeping fiasco?
Are people blaming BR for signing Mignolet, or do people feel the goalkeeping coaching isn't up to standard?

I'm honestly split, part of me is thinking that as a club we wouldn't possibly persist with a sub par GK coach for so long, one who watched the steady decline in Reinas form and the same with Simon.

Alternatively, I imagine our GK coach (John Ackberg or something) is still pulling his hair out watching our mistakes, and HAS got to be actively working on these problems in training,

Maybe both are true, poor players and even poorer coaches together can't mix well,

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I can't be sure if it would have any baring or that i'm remembering right, but I think achterbergs wife runs a charity that liverpool fc support and there's some sort of connection there, if that's true maybe it has some influence. I could be talking utter tripe though.

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27 Dec 2014 11:52:40
Mignolet is a good shot stopper however his distribution is absolutely garbage. He also lacks presence - that penalty area is his and he needs to stamp his authority on his own defenders and make them position where he wants them (think back on how many times Reina was toe to toe with one of our defenders screaming in their face for screwing up). Currently they just ignore him for the large part. Jones is similar in that respect. A Goalie needs strength of character, an iron will and a personality that projects onto their own defenders.

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It`s a bit of both, IMO. Mingo`s faults are coachable, IMO. However, the GK coach is obviosly not doing the job because he is getting worse. Mingo doesn`t coach himself and regardless of how much he wants to improve or not, if the GK coach is terrible, then Mingo will regress which he is currently doing especially w/ his confidence being shot to bits by BR`s terrible management by benching him indefinitely which IMO, is just stupid.

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27 Dec 2014 09:27:49
Hi Eds,

I guess we might want to offload many players and make some money out of it this January.We should sell Lucas(Emre Can was good last game and can replace him as a DM), Borini, Balotelli, Johnson and a few others just to get enough cash so that next summer we can buy a quality centre forward for around 50m pounds.How many of these are we really going to sell next month?

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{Ed002's Note - Who is going to buy all of these players?}

27 Dec 2014 10:01:34
From what I've read here,

Suso will likely sign a pre contract with somebody in January,
Johnson also has this option although I expect him to stay in the EPL so maybe him signing a pre contract is a little less likely.
Balotelli is unlikely to move on in January and maybe even the summer unless Liverpool drastically lower their asking price to a more realistic price.
As above, Borini would like to stay and fight but that's not going to happen under the current regime,
Will face the same problem as in the summer IE convincing him to leave.
Lucas may well move on, attracting interest from Italy and although unlikely Brazil.

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27 Dec 2014 08:01:54
Hi Ed002,
any news on Brad Jones and plans for Jan if his injury is serious? thanks.

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{Ed002's Note - It doesn't work like that Tom.}

27 Dec 2014 08:10:05
What a dismal display that was. Mad Dog was awful. Gerrard toothless. Coutinho and Sterling ran the show, Lallana perked up once Lambert appeared.
Please drop Gerrard someone. Give him a rest. The guy has been great for this club but last season has taken its toll.
As per the goalkeeping situation, Migs has to go, we should buy Czech and get rid of John Achterberg the goalkeeping coach who has over seen the demise of Reina, Jones and Migs. Sell Borini, Balotelli, Johnson, Migs, and buy a striker and keeper with the proceeds. Bring back Ibe and others from loans to fatten the squad out again.
Let's face it we won't get fourth so give Rogers the season see what he can do then give him a carriage clock and send him to Spain to play with Moyes, and then let's turn this boat around.

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27 Dec 2014 03:23:57
hello eds.

my few wishes for lfc entering into the second half of the season are
1. they should win the next 2 games
and united should lose 1 and draw 1.
so that we will be at max differ from 3rd place by 5
points.
2. as soon as this happens i want rodgers to be sacked
so that there will be high probability that we can get into top 4.

YNWA

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27 Dec 2014 05:49:11
If the above happens then BR gets the sympathy and benefit of doubt to continue.
We are not going to beat Swansea, they are a good team and have genuine goal scorers.

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United and the 3rd place is beyond reach now. The way we play 4-6 is also beyond us but if you want your fantasy to be a bit realistic than it has to be 4th place instead of Arsenal. To get that we will probably need to take all 9 points from the games against Arsenal (must win) United and City and do extremely well against all the others. I agree with you this will never happen with BR but this time of the year it will be very difficult even with another manager.

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27 Dec 2014 00:17:32
Hi Eds and all,

I hope you all had a great christmas and 3 points today too!

Anyone know how the future of Ward-Prowse is looking? I have been watching the young Southampton CAM this season, and must say he is a class act.

Not necessarily from Liverpool, but surely he has got peoples attention and it would be great if Liverpool looked towards him.

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Big future ahead of him probably among the best crossers in the league right now

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27 Dec 2014 05:27:11
His crossing is brilliant he will be the next star at southampton

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27 Dec 2014 05:38:49
Soon we will buy him at 30 mill and play him at LB.

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Thanks for responses, especially Passions' which is quite apt!

So who is in for him? Any info?

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26 Dec 2014 23:42:10
I got laughed at the other day for suggesting that Can could do a job for us defensively but I really feel he could cement a starting place at the back. As we saw today he has the physical strength and aerial ability required to succeed in a defensive role. He's also pretty quick and comfortable on the ball which is always great to see from your defenders.

Who would he replace? For me he would replace Skrtel. As we know Skrtel tends to sit far too deep and gets bullied in the air far too often. He could either partner Sakho or play in a three along side Kolo and Sakho.

What do you think?

Red Rum

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Dont think BR would ever drop Skrtel tbh. bt Emre Sakho and Toure is worth a shout.

however i'd prefer Emre in the middle with Lucas.

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27 Dec 2014 05:39:58
Gerrard?
How would it matter if you keep on replacing your defender when our midfield does nothing in attack?

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So you'd replace a defender with a midfielder? Is that you brendan!?

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Emre in the middle with Hendo, because Hendo isn't a ******* RB!

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