Liverpool Banter Archive December 27 2015

27 Dec 2015 19:03:04
Hi Ed002 if you are around.

I really respect the knowledge all of the Ed's when it comes to football but you in particular, really really intrigue me with you depth of knowledge across all the teams involving every aspect of the game.

Do you have many many sources?!?!

{Ed002's Note - It doesn't really work like that Nicky - it is a matter of context and using the available help.}

27 Dec 2015 20:53:05
Ok cheers Ed.

27 Dec 2015 18:12:55
Can you imagine how pretty the league table would have looked if we'd have beaten Watford, WBA and Coutinho hadn't missed a sitter with the goal gaping at home to Norwich. I know shoulda woulda coulda and we have to move on but I like to torture myself.

27 Dec 2015 20:39:06
They all even out in the end, sir.

27 Dec 2015 21:30:44
I was thinking the exact same thing myself this afternoon Dentist!

27 Dec 2015 15:31:40
Do the eds or anyone else think Lallana may not remain long term under klopp?

The guy is a very good dribbler but seems to always have his head down and never looks up to pick the right pass at the right time, plus i haven't seen much to suggest he's a very good striker of the ball, and he isn't quick or strong. just not sure he offers us enough in attacking midfield, surely younger players like ibe and markovic who've got pace and can shoot offer us more.

27 Dec 2015 15:44:56
It's obvious that Klopp likes him as he keeps picking him, he was very good yesterday, first half he was on fire, hopefully he can add consistency.

27 Dec 2015 15:48:47
I posted the exact same thing yesterday, Captain. He seems to always wanna show how skillful he is by taking ten touches on the ball, running into cul de sacs, playing with his head down and crossing the ball without even looking to see if someone is making a run. On Benteke's goal, Firmino looked up to see where he was before crossing to him. If that was Lallana, he would have just crossed the ball head down and the chance would have been gone. Also, He is dreadful in front of goal and can't shoot accurately hence, the sitters he misses. There's a reason he hasn't scored a goal in an eternity. I think for someone with talent, he lacks end product and doesn't score goals enuff to warrant a starting berth. Klopp seems to like his energy but that's all he has, energy.

27 Dec 2015 16:06:22
I think Lallana will come good. he just needs to continue to work hard. Goals and assists will come.

Same goes for Origi, Firminho and Benteke.

{Ed001's Note - it is far more than hard work that Lallana requires, he works ridiculously hard already. It is about speeding up his thought and he simply has done nothing to show he can learn. Not just in the way he plays, which is still the same mistakes repeatedly, but in his moronic comments to the media. He is still repeating the same rubbish he has done since the day he signed.}

27 Dec 2015 16:06:43
I don't think we will know who Klopp really likes until a few transfer windows have occured; he may pick players believing they will get him the result / that's the best we have at the moment (that's willing to follow Klopp's instructions) .

27 Dec 2015 16:45:23
Edd001 I was delighted when Lallana signed and thought we had a top class player that would be assisting and scoring goals but he has been the biggest disappointment for me of a signing. the boy works hard on this pitch but he isn't adding anything to the team. He's an attacking player and it can't remember the last time he scored a goal or lays the ball of quicker enough for an assist. I think klopp may well look at lallana in the a summer of he doesn't add a lot more than he has since signing.

{Ed001's Note - if he didn't work so hard chasing around, I think there is no doubt he would be amongst the first out of the door. As it is, due to the graft he puts in, there is no emergency to sell him but he could fetch a decent fee.}

27 Dec 2015 16:51:01
One goal in his last 25 league games. We got a long wait.

27 Dec 2015 17:32:08
Personally i'd much rather see us sell lallana in the summer while we can still get a decent fee for him, and give markovic a run in the side instead when he's back from loan, everyone seems to think markovic is a winger but from what i remember at benfica he played much more centrally. Swear markovic mentioned in an interview he'd be happy to be on loan at fenerbache for one more season so the lad obviously wants the game time.

27 Dec 2015 17:50:15
Couldn't disagree more Capt. I think he is a very good player. If he and Couts get into a groove they will be excellent. High energy is name of Klopp's game and Lallana and Hendo fit it to a tee.

27 Dec 2015 18:30:27
sick of this lalana thing why ain't nothing directed at coutinho who plays well for 3 games then is awful for 10 he is so inconsistent its unreal. don't get me wrong that if we have money to spend then i would keep coutinho because he may become world class in time but do we have time to wait so if we don't have money I for one would rather sell coutinho for decent money for klopp to have to get the players he wants as that would still leave firminho lalana tex for the same position.

{Ed001's Note - because Couts actually offers something, whereas Lallana offers little. What a pointless argument.}

27 Dec 2015 18:53:10
Lallana needs to shoot and cross more, it's as simple as that. He needs to speed his decision making up. In training he needs to work at releasing the ball earlier.

27 Dec 2015 19:10:52
ed01 have we got time to wait is my point as he doesn't exactly offer lots more and again I say at this point in time. his constant shooting all the time now witch is in the most awful he just frustrates me he used to look for the killer ball doesn't do that anymore and before u say anything have watched him carefully and there has been lots of chances to set people up but just blazes it over or wide its there but but why the 3 good games and ten with out dong anything?

{Ed001's Note - seriously? Has it escaped your attention that when he has a bad game so does the whole team? He looks for the killer ball but needs runners.}

27 Dec 2015 19:11:34
Ed001, you aroused my curiosity there (amongst other things) . What moronic comments to the media are you referring to?

{Ed001's Note - everytime he does an interview it is moronic. He needs to just shut up and stop talking and let his feet do the talking for him. Always shouting his mouth off about how we are going to do.}

27 Dec 2015 19:15:52
The only reason klopp is picking Lallana is because there are no other better options atm. He has nice touches occasionally but regularly he just slows down the attack and always cuts out the space for coutinho to roam in. He has scored 1 goal in 27 which is horrendous. A squad player at best, will be very easy to replace.

27 Dec 2015 19:40:26
ed he has on plenty of occasions had team mates to pass to in better positions then him but still choose to shoot maybe he feels there not good enough so to try on his own orhe belives he is a better shooter then he is I don't no but one thing he is for sure he is far to inconsistent but on his day world beater that I no but we need him to be having 7 or 8 good games out of ten not 3 or 4. my argument is not about lallana its wats coutinho worth to us 30 40 mil Barcelona or 3/ 4 good games out of ten. can we generate enough from other sales for klopp to be able to make the 3/ 4 signings we need?

{Ed001's Note - when has he had players in a better position and not passed? Usually they are stood still waiting, which means they would be in danger of seeing an already moving defender move past them and reach the ball before they can get going. That is the problem he has. He plays a pass expecting movement and it goes to no one because they are all on their heels and then people like you will criticise him when it is the fault of the team around him. He is simply a class above the likes of Lallana, who run around achieving absolutely nothing in the final third. It would be absolutely moronic to sell him, rather than buy better players to put with him. If Sturridge was fit, then he would link up well with him, as he did with Origi at the start of the Leicester game until his injury. Then he was left with a statue to pass to. Sorry but foolish to sell him at this point.}

27 Dec 2015 20:03:10
He still can't pass a simple 5yrd ball and that's nothing to do with other players movements
Sometimes in his defence he is trying to hard but I still think he needs to work on the basics and like lallana needs to look up once in a while but i'd rather have them both than sell them.

27 Dec 2015 20:58:52
Some senseless comments I have read here. Coutinho should be sold? Lallana is better than Coutinho? Lallana works hard and does nothing more hence, should keep getting picked? Lallana offers more than Coutinho? I have read everything. Lallana offers nothing else but hardwork, that's it. That is not a quality. That is the basic ingredient in life that we should all have. We already have Hendo, Can n Milner who are more hardworking than he is so again, what else does he offer? NOTHING. He can't pass, can't shoot, won't look up before crossing, scored one in 25 games and never stopped talking crap in the media since Klopp came here. because Klopp is picking him repeatedly doesn't nullify his inadequacies and worst of all, he has shown no intention to improve as a player. Ed said Lallana should never have been bought and I'm afraid that history has proved him right.

27 Dec 2015 23:07:30
I though Lallana was the answer when we signed him, I had beautiful dreams of him and Coutinho picking holes through packed defences at Anfield with their tight control and silky flicks and tricks. Unfortunately though he has actually become part of the problem because he holds on to the ball too long allowing the opposition to get back in shape. He's got it in him but just needs to be a bit quicker with everything he does.

27 Dec 2015 23:19:57
not one post above says Lallana is better then coutinho redohio so I suggest u go back and read again.

28 Dec 2015 00:57:32
He has one of the best touches in the prem. He's not as slow as people are making out either. He works hard, and had more skill than most on our team . he sometimes takes too many touches but if he had more movemont in front he would create a lot more.

27 Dec 2015 20:43:16
i no wat your saying ed maybe I just epect more from him all good players make things happen them selves so hopefully he sorts the inconsistency out. on to studge any ifo with him declareing himself fit will he be risked as klopp said no for xmas fixtures. also wat do you think of origi been really pleased for him I think he has been playing really well when he has had the chance cheers.

{Ed001's Note - are you serious? Only the truly great players like Maradona could make things happen themselves more often than he does. You are aware that every time he shoots it is because he is having to make things happen himself? You need to get your head out the clouds if you think that we could do better right now.}

28 Dec 2015 01:53:19
Their IS movement ahead of him but because he seems to always play with his head down instead of looking up to see who's available for a pass or cross, he can't see it.

{Ed001's Note - not so sure there is a lot of the time, but you are right, he will never know as he is too busy watching his own feet to see.}

27 Dec 2015 14:34:54
Ed001, if you're around.

I wanted to know what is your take on Firmino, I remember you were quite glad we got him. Obviously he had a good game at the Etihad and he had an assist yesterday, but other than that he had gone missing in most of the games. I personally see him as a great talent but what is his best position do you think? How can he grow into the player everyone expect him to be? Thanks a lot for all your hard work this year too!

{Ed001's Note - he was far from missing yesterday, he was constantly buzzing around working their midfield and defence. Because of his movement, they were never able to settle down and take up their two banks of four in defensive situations. It may not mean he is a focal point of an attack, but he does create space constantly. The issue is whether we have anyone, other than Coutinho, who can take advantage of that space. Once people start taking advantage of the space he is creating, then we will see him able to get more involved, as markers will have to leave him to cover the one on the ball, leaving him open to receive it in better positions.}

27 Dec 2015 15:05:05
Agree with Ed. Firmino was waspish against Man City but so was everyone in attack and the spaces he created are where we scored from. He is a Klopp type player. It just might take a while to get others up to that speed of thought and movement. TV coverage focuses on the player with the ball to the exclusion at times of showing the off the ball movement that creates through ball opportunities or space for deeper lying players to move into. The trick at Anfield will be the ability of our squad to take risks and play fast one touch football when faced with two banks of four defenders. We also miss badly the ability of Sturridge who can convert more kinds of chances than either Origi or Benteke at the moment. Any high flying team needs two scoring strikers otherwise defenders will hedge their bets and close out the sole outlet. If Firmino can learn to score the way Suarez did, he will be one of Europe's top players.

27 Dec 2015 14:59:59
But seriously he hardly touch the ball in 1st half and when he does he is constantly muscled off the ball by leicester players. Surely he got to work on his touches and strength.

27 Dec 2015 15:53:15
Origi had a good first half. Wonder where he got all the space and if he had passed to Firmino in 15th minute, might have been a different game. He looks leggy at times and like most European based players, will take time to become physically a premiership player. But we won by a single goal due to his feet and vision. Most would not have seen Benteke drop off. You have to differentiate your criticism from players who show they will get to the required level and those who never will. The bonus for us is that Origi is showing signs that he is the replacement for Sturridge. Has same feet and pace. Klopp will make the most of both of these and both were on his radar before they came to LFC. Countinho is key to the development of both.

27 Dec 2015 15:56:05
All valid points, lads. I think his speed of thought is a bit too quick and when he does something instinctive and doesn't come off, it looks like he has no idea what he's doing. That will come with more training and communication. Playing with Studge and Couts upfront who are flare players will help as well. We've seen what damage he can do when the players around him know what he's trying to do vs City or even vs Chelsea. Yesterday, he was very active and didn't get bumped off the ball as easily as usual but improvement is still needed on this front. All in all. He was good yesterday so the hope is that he continues in subsequent games.

27 Dec 2015 16:31:30
Personally i think Firmino is abit like lucas of 2 or 3 season ago in the sense that he did a lot of unnoticeable job and low in confident. Most of his dribble got tackled and he isn't confident to do what he truly capable of. Need some time to settled down and get confident. Hopefully we will give him the time he needs.

27 Dec 2015 16:56:39
I thought that firmino looked very good yesterday. he's always in the right spots and 2-3 times was making unmarked runs toward goal AND in an open passing lane that some one could have passed back form him to tap home. That pass never came as our players opted for shots. Also, I noted multiple time that he dribbled through players to get out of trouble. Agree that he is still learning the physical side of them league.

I was very impressed with Origi who looked very quick and strong with the ball. Still looks like he needs to mature a bit to pick out the best pass/ option, but I'm excited to see more of him! Hope he recovers quickly! Any injury is terrible, but its even worse with a young player right as their showing what they can do. First Ings now Origi : (

27 Dec 2015 17:15:24
"if Firmino could learn to score the way Suarez did he would become one of europes top players". same goes for anyone doesn't it, the problem is he won't get near to the level of Suarez, I hope he could but let's be realistic, we had one of the best players in the world in Suarez and to burden any other player with that expectation he is doomed to fail.
As for all the praise Firmino got for his "performance" yesterday, sorry I just didn't see it, don't get me wrong I think he can become a very very good player for us but v Watford and yesterday he done nothing to write home about.

27 Dec 2015 19:46:09
He's getting better though, he's definitely won over people as the seasons gone on. It's like Messi said a while back, even Barcelona would struggle in the premier league, definitely in the first season at least. It's going to take time, natural strength isn't instant.
Agree with Ed002 and klopp, everybody wants instant impacts.
Vardy, Lewandowski, Aubameyang, some of the best known names in football at the minute. All of them mid to late twenties, before they delivered anything but most of you lot would have slagged them off no end and demanded transfers to get the proven stars like falcao and soldado. Lucas and Henderson and maybe could include sahko, look how they turned out.
At least judge the lad after his first season.

{Ed001's Note - was it not Pique that said that rather than Messi?}

28 Dec 2015 04:07:13
Thanks Ed, but I didn't just mean the Leicester game, but in general so far! I really appreciate your insight.

{Ed001's Note - and in general he has been doing the same, but the team were struggling, so he never saw the ball in the right areas enough.}

28 Dec 2015 04:23:48
Ok, so hopefully as the team will grow and get better, so will he! A fit Sturridge would definitely help! Even Origi showed a huge improvement in the last few games, too bad he got injured!

{Ed001's Note - that was a big shame, we looked so much more dangerous while he was on the field. Origi looked really good.}

27 Dec 2015 13:56:55
Congrats to Ed's on a great site in 2015. Here's to more cogent analysis and acerbic rebuttals in 2016. One question : Do the Ed's think we have a manager who can challenge domestically and in Europe or do they see us falling short on both fronts? Or do they secretly wish we had hired someone else and if so, who? And what are their predictions for this season? PS I'm Irish so one question means lots of questions. Happy New Year to all. #YNWA though sometimes it might look like it.

{Ed001's Note - Klopp was my first choice and pretty much only choice. He is the best we could have got, he is what we need, but he needs time.}

27 Dec 2015 14:24:14
Hi ed1 i think klopp xould be one of the best coaches in world and think we were super lucky to get him considering the high profile manager carousel just now who do u think are the best coaches in the world right now though? I can't see why man city are willing to pay guidilola stupid money as personally i don't think he's as great as people think he is mpurinho is good for a season or two but implodes and ancelotti great with an established team but not a team builder kind of coach.

27 Dec 2015 14:20:12
In total agreeance with you Ed. out of interest why wouldn't of you gone for Ancelotti?

Would Klopp of been the choice if Mourinho became available Ed?

Many thanks.

{Ed001's Note - because Klopp is a better fit for us, in my opinion. Not a chance I would even consider Mourinho, I can't stand the way he plays football.}

27 Dec 2015 15:07:43
If you listen to Klopp he wants to develop players he has; given the money the club has spent we need to ensure that we buy the right players when we are spending over £15m for a player (not buy a player and then not utilise them) .

Klopp will move us up the table but it's going to take time; most other high profile managers would be looking at spending more to revamp the squad to get us playing their preferred way!

27 Dec 2015 15:32:25
Cheers boss.
Glad to see it is about the style of football on top of the winning of trophies.

{Ed001's Note - always has to be more to it than just winning, it is a game, it should be fun.}

27 Dec 2015 16:10:51
His interview was so illuminating and helped get us into his mind and the way he approaches the game. He has plans for us but as many have said, he needs time. When he was asked about world class players and how many we may need, he looked honestly bewildered and asked want does world class even mean. I started asking myself that as well. If your name isn't Neymar, Ronaldo, Messi or Suarez, you're not world class. You may be close but not yet. He wants to build us from the ground up and that takes time so let's all keep the faith. I know there are some here rooting for him to fail and they know who they are but the rest of us should just keep supporting him and remain patient even tho, that is tough to do these days.

27 Dec 2015 19:44:25
I thought it was a good interview as well Redohio; he didn't give too much away when put on the spot but an intelligent manager should have done that!

Interesting was when he was asked about signing players he said if he brings 4 in what does he do with the 4 they will replace?

If you look at the 1st team squad (on official site) there are nearly 50 players (I appreciate some are the youngsters) and with 12 of those on loan then we need to trim the squad but replace with quality.

27 Dec 2015 21:17:06
I loved that part myself too, Hoola. He also said that if you sign the player (s) then they sign autographs, do the pressers and blah, blah, blah, what happens next? Our probs won't just go away immediately. Like he said, no one player can solve our problems. Only the group can do it and he has full confidence in this group of players, all their qualities and faults combined and those looking for world class players to come in had better get over it because they ain't coming.

27 Dec 2015 10:32:30
Hope all had nice new year.
Out of boredom was trying my best to come up with sensible question I've not seen asked on here.
I notice a lot in some clubs that when a player is injured and on way back to fitness they will have 1 or 2 games in u21's.
You don't seem to see this to much at Liverpool.
1 of my fave lucas always seems to do this way. Is it outta choice player wise or manager?

{Ed001's Note - Rafa was the one who introduced it to us, he felt the reserve level was too low to benefit players. I have always thought it was a big part of the reason why our fringe players always looked so poor, they were rusty when they got a chance. These days our players will play in the U21s, if they need fitness. It is a manager's decision.}

27 Dec 2015 12:56:03
New year? 😄.

27 Dec 2015 10:28:39
I think I have mentioned it before but i am still shock how in 2016 so many players are being sidelined by hamstring problems nto as a result of bad tackles. surely with the money clubs have today they can find experts to work on muscles pre games and on a dialy basis in a way that will minimise these.

When you compare how top athlets in other fields practice and keep their body fit, for example top tennis players like Andy Murray who can play 2-3 hours 4-5 consecutive days without being sildlined with injuries and compare them with footballers who consitently pull their hamstring every other game it is pretty shocking.

27 Dec 2015 10:48:53
Can I please have the winning lottery numbers seeing how you can see into the future lol.

27 Dec 2015 11:07:55
I do wonder how much blades contribute to these type of injuries.

27 Dec 2015 12:38:07
I agree Mick.

Roller blades are a definitely no go.

Footballers should know better than to spend their spare time jumping over stairs in the local park.

Gone are the days of gambling, high class brass', purchasing of unnecessary petrol guzzling sports cars, tattoos and late night red carpet events.

Selfish gets the loft of 'em!

27 Dec 2015 12:53:17
Face palm of the week goes to you my friend. I know you used Murray as an example but it's a very very poor example. In tennis is it an individual sport where the very elite get to the top. Meaning people who have bodies that cope with that sort of rigurous schedule, coupled with hard work and talent. Compare the amount of players at the elite of football to the elite of tennis, no comparison, much more room for error when there's a lot more people in your field. And the biggest point of them all is that football is a contact sport, even when training. Tennis is not. Tennis is short sprints which the body copes with much better than running around sprinting, jogging and getting stuck in to tackles for 90 mins. Plus football players train 2 or 3 times a week on top of a match on the weekends or midweek. Tennis players get injured all the time, nadal and Murray have had to pull out on quite a few occasions. And on top of everything, they play that schedule for about 2 weeks every 3-4 months then it's back to normality. Footballers have that for months upon months. The comparison is night and day mate.

I agree, top athletes do not get injured as much as some of these footballers do. There is something physically wrong with some of them meaning they aren't capable to compete in a sport like football properly. Sturridge is some sort of enigma for example. Top physio and doctors can even explain Sturridge. But some of the other players who get injured a lot let of have a weak spot that is prone to injury are either just burnt out or very unlucky. The players are getting used to klopps high pace training sessions which they probably haven't been involved in before, and the fact that they play so many times so often it's just a recipe for disaster. Football is not like tennis or basketball or baseball where there's a lot less going on.

27 Dec 2015 13:05:16
Yessssss tennis players. They seem to be able to recover 'suspiciously' easily. 🤔

Plus tennis players don't have to use their leg muscles for anything other than movement. Footballers are obviously using their leg muscles to kick the ball and they are having other players battling with them for the ball. There is a lot more stress on the lower limbs. It's the little knocks that have a cumulative effect.

27 Dec 2015 14:11:50
Is there a comparison to be made to amateur boxers who train as hard as anyone I have ever seen and can fight 3 times s week?
What about Rugby players getting smashed about all over the place. There surely worth looking into as to how they don't sustain injuries that keep them out for long periods?

27 Dec 2015 14:32:57
Rugby very rarely has more than 1 match a week though for the reason that it is very physical.

{Ed001's Note - but football is barely physical these days, and your point about kicking and tackles compared to tennis forgets that they have to use their arms many times more often to hit the ball. That repeated amount of movement, without the chance to rest, like a footballer can as there are ten others on his team, means it is far more physically demanding as a professional sport. There are no places to hide either, so it is mentally more demanding and we are constantly told that footballers suffer mental exhaustion the poor loves.}

27 Dec 2015 15:32:48
I thought tennis players sit down for 2 mins after every couple of games. Nice little rest.

My point was about leg/ hamstring injuries.

27 Dec 2015 15:54:38
Amateur boxers?

Three times a week?

Not having that as it certainly doesn't happen in our gym.

I always remember Ricky Hatton after a game of five a side. He couldn't walk the next day. He was in top condition and in his prime. Totally different muscles, and that was just a kickaround


No two sports can ever be compared.

Footballers are professional and this requires peak fitness. Boxers train for months for a fight preparation. Were not talking an amateur game here.

27 Dec 2015 16:22:08
Tennis is a more physically demanding sport than football and so is Basketball. I played both basketball and football in high school and believe me, I know what sport I'd rather play as a pro and it wasn't basketball.

27 Dec 2015 18:55:41
I thought we were talking about recovery from leg injuries?
There are loads more sports more demanding physically than football, but in terms of leg injuries it's got to be one of the most difficult.

{Ed001's Note - hamstrings mostly go in sprinting, it is nothing to do with challenges, the original post was wrong. So talking about contact in reference to them is pointless. As such, sports like tennis involve a lot more explosive sprints, so are more dangerous for the hammy.}

27 Dec 2015 21:19:20
Spot on, Ed.

27 Dec 2015 09:32:56
Great work by the team yesterday. Totally deserved win. let's get a little bit of consistency, so we can go on some sort of run and notch up some wins.

P. S Hoping that the Leicester team bounces back as I really enjoy watching them!

27 Dec 2015 02:26:00
I know most people will disagree with me here, but would there be any chance of us bringing in Adebayor on a pay as you play deal until the season ends? . He'd be an extra body, used to the Prem, wudn cost anything and at this moment in time, we only have one fit striker . I think he could fit in with our style .

{Ed001's Note - no and he would cost something, so not sure where you got that nonsensical idea he wouldn't from. Why on earth would we want him. If we want an extra body we could just sign a member of the crowd who would at least try.}

27 Dec 2015 07:47:51
You are right. Most people would disagree with you on this one!

27 Dec 2015 09:07:10
Adebayor? Really? I actually don't even know how to reply to this.

27 Dec 2015 10:02:08
Hangs around the changing room like a bad smell.
Such a negative influence he would do more damage than good (like Mario)

27 Dec 2015 07:08:45
Adebayor isn't getting to the bench at Spurs who has the only out and out striker available for 4 competitions.

27 Dec 2015 16:14:16
Adebayor doesn't play for spurs, probably why EG!

{Ed001's Note - obviously not noticed they released him a couple of months ago....}