Liverpool Banter Archive November 27 2014

27 Nov 2014 23:10:56
Evening all,

Right I don't think BR is the right man for the job. We all know the reasons but the main point has to be his continued failure in the transfer market and his awful defending coaching.

Best thing that could happen for our club if we fail to play well and win against Stoke. .

BR goes, we get in De Boer if we can tempt him. We then sell the players who are not getting us anywhere ie balotelli, borini, loan out markovic. Buy a goalkeeper such as Cech, a striker like Tevez or Martinez, Higuain or even bony. Also a players like Bender not Dortmund one.

This way we have addressed a few issues.

If we are still in the champs league wow but I can't see us winning against Basel at the moment.

Do you need a job Fred?

28 Nov 2014 03:59:27
Red

We aren't buying or selling vegetables here. It's not that easy what you dream.
Who would buy our under performing players?
We need to play them, Else the message would be clear on our transfers.

Ah red said fred shall we have a go at spending our way out of this mess. like that worked so well last transfer window

27 Nov 2014 22:16:11
Eds fellow reds, as a lifetime LFC fan I've not got blinkers on . What is the reality that faces us now as a club we will fall out of Europe in the next couple of weeks won't make top 8 this season .that has great financial implications for us .and with us already being investigated my two questions are .do you see FSG standing by the club and wasting more money or try to sell? And how many years will it take to get back into Europe ? I think FSG will try to sell and at least 5 years to re entre champs league

{Ed002's Note - I have explained my expectations.}

28 Nov 2014 01:05:03
It's bad when even if it was everton on sat I would not expect to win.

28 Nov 2014 04:01:26
We need top4 next season, Else can't see us getting back to CL anytime soon. UTD are on a progress and they along with the biggies are not going to kicked out.

27 Nov 2014 17:44:07
I just do not understand why Emre can is not being picked ahead of Lucas and Gerrard. I have nothing against Lucas but like Gerrard he just cannot cope with the pace of the game. Last night our midfield was beaten for pace 99% of the time.

Starting with Lucas and Gerrard is just beyond me. Rodgers will never learn.

He once again praised the team for it's character last night. Delusional is one word for Rodgers. Skrtel and Johnson are first choice etc. Sick of it.

Clueless team selections, clueless tactics and overpraise time and time again for ghastly performances. Make it go away!

Alonso, Kroos and Pirlo are probably the 3 best holding midfielders in the world right now and none of them are fast. It is about reading the game. Lucas is more than capable of that. Neither of the goals last night were remotely his fault. Mingolet and Johnson were yet again at the centre of it all. Gerrard offered absolutely nothing though which suprised me. Perhaps ue really is just an impact sub now.

So I disagree with your inclusion of Lucas in your rant but do agree with you regarding your questioning of of Rodgers team selections.

27 Nov 2014 19:10:58
Can doesn't really look like a defensive midfielder to me, which is the position Gerrard (mostly) & Lucas have played this season. And I suspect had he not picked up an injury earlier in the season he'd have more starts than Lucas anyway.

A better question, imo, would be why are Henderson and Allen selected ahead of him.

I'd go with Lucas as CDM with Henderson and Can just ahead.

There is a difference between a holding midfielder and a defensive midfielder. Is Lucas meant to be a quarter back such as Alonso or more like Mascherano when at Lfc? Completely different players in my opinion.

Lucas to me is more like a mascherano type, he's a good tackler, disciplined and does the simple things well.

27 Nov 2014 15:51:11
Hi Eds, Reds, thanks for all the hard work as usual. Ed001 or Ed002, is the debt Liverpool have taken on manageable? I'm not really looking for numbers just that its worrying seeing Liverpool finding themselves in a difficult situation on the field and as a direct result of that off it.

{Ed002's Note - Yes it can be managed but at the end of the day it is debt that was never anticipated (due to the high cost of running the club and the money going on transfers every year. Wages are very significant and need to come down.}

28 Nov 2014 15:29:21
Thanks a lot Ed002, as you've suggested the owners may be gone before the club is on track to where it wants to be. I really appreciate the work you put in on the site Ed002, cheers.

{Ed002's Note - It will take a long time to get the club where the owners want it to be and to recover the losses to date. I expect them to leave before then.}

27 Nov 2014 14:46:06
Question for Ed002,

Is there an age limit below which teams cannot make transfer offers? I am thinking of the kid Youri Tielemans from Anderlecht. At what point can teams begin looking to sign a player such as that? Will the richer teams (Bayern, Real, PSG etc) typically look to sign someone like that a little later than most since they can afford to let him show what he has and then pay more for a proven player star? I am assuming Anderlecht would want to keep him as long as possible to have the value go up.

My thinking is also towards a Markovic type signing. Was the attempt to try and sign someone who could be elite by the time he is 24-25, but he is young enough that the "bigger" clubs wouldn't be interested until he had totally proven himself? I also remember someone on the site saying that Portugese teams could sign Markovic before say an English team, do they have different age rules in each UEFA country?

Just curious your thoughts.

Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - Effectively kids cannot move from abroad before 18. There are exceptions that can see their families relocate but the clubs can not offer jobs without justification. There are educational responsibilities that need to be met. Markovic was already tied in with "big" clubs and Chelsea did not see him as being ready so they had no use for him allowing Benfica to sell him at what was an outrageous fee to Liverpool. Something has been misunderstood about Portuguese teams - or someone has misled you.}

The problem with Markovic is he'll be out of contract when he's 24/25 and if he starts performing will probably leave. Personally I would avoid 20-22 year old players unless they're ready for the first team now (like how Can seems to be) as otherwise by the time to do a loan or two then another year to get adjusted to the league, they're near enough ready to move on. Buy them when they're younger or wait until 22-24 when they're more established but not world class. Our own youth (Suso, Teixera, etc.) should be the 20-22 year olds getting the occasional substitution here and there.

The likes of Coates, Alberto, Ilori, Borini, and Markovic are not good signings for me for this reason.

27 Nov 2014 12:32:38
So, if we manage to come second with our destiny in our own hands we could get:
Group A - At Madrid or Juventus
Group B - none
Group C - Leverkusen or Monaco/Zenit
Group D - Dortmund
Group E - Bayern
Group F - PSG or Barca
Group G - none
Group H - Porto or Shakthar

For me its Group C winners please, but am guessing Barca beat PSG, claim top spot and we get Luis.

However, initial hurdle is the need to break down Basel who could stick 11 behind the ball (a la Villa) .

I'm not even that confident in us doing that tbh

27 Nov 2014 12:58:43
The vulnerable defense will make sure we concede one or two against Basel. Let's hope we score enough in the first half.

27 Nov 2014 13:22:53
We have the talent in the squad to match anyone from Group C, Dortmund or anyone from Group H. Maybe Athletico. In our current form, we don't have the ability to beat Basel, let alone any of that lot

In my opinion, Basel will play for the win, which maybe could be good news for us, because they will score, as we will, gone be a tough one .

27 Nov 2014 11:02:24
Thoughts for the day.

Is our entire transfer "policy" - and maybe these season's tactics and performances too - a reaction to that one single match against Chelsea?

We buy players, not for the first team, but those who can "provide something different" for the occasional difficult matches that make the difference between 1st and 2nd.

Gerrard hasn't had a good game since for club or country; he he mentally shot rather than physically.

Rodgers has resorted to the sideways possession mindset that he had when he arrived.

All of this because the pain of that one match is dominating everything we do; rather than looking back on the best season of football I can remember since the '80s and continuing its evolution?

27 Nov 2014 09:44:51
Time to implement performance related pay I think. Maybe if they did, there may be some urgency introduced into the play. I was astounded after the game when the players actually thought that they had done well.

I agree and am amazed of how little people make of this. I guess there is nothing to do about the outragous payments any PL footballe, regardless of how avarage they are make today. Don't get me wrong, I am all for paying good money for footballers who can single handedly (or single footedly) take their team to the next stage like Aguero. But to think that most LFC players are being paid something around 50k a week or more (probably more than most of us do in a year) and their manager 6M a year for this mediocre performance and that they will be paid these sums even if we finish in the relegation zone is ridiculus. It could have been great if players' slaries would decided after each game by the fans (beyond the minnimum daily pay they have to receive by law). And it is not that they go and fight wars in Afganistan. They play football - for LFC, for God sake most of us will do that happily for free. Unjust world. This is one reason why I don't become a football club owner. I couldn't stand paying so much of my money for no return. And ye I am also about 100 million short. But am working on that.

{Ed002's Note - People make nothing of it because it simply won't happen.}

Or just get rid of the crap players and start buying quality ones!

Red Rum

27 Nov 2014 14:03:41
have to agree with red-rum, rodgers has wasted:

Mario/Marko (£36m)

borini/aspas (£18m)

allen/can (£25m)

assaidi/alberto (£10m)

manquillo only a loan but had flanno, wisdom, & kelly

tbf I like can but if you look at the fees paid for these players (not even getting into defenders as bought two great CB but won't play them together)

The majority of those players aren't regulars and majority either aren't performing or not ready for 1st team football.

I know there are other factors in transfers but would have much preferred we tried youth players and just spent it on:

£36m - striker (after LS left)
£25m - midfielder
£18m - winger
£10m - dm/GK

Ok maybe some of our youth would have struggled but have players on the fringe of the team like Suso (leaving), Ilori (wants to leave), Ibe (same level as markovic - but a youth players), Texeira (ready to be given a chance), Brad Smith (cant be worse then enrique), Wisdom (better the Johnson), Kelly, (gone) and Rossiter (just a bit of game time here and there would help).

Would prefer he would have given them a chance and instead of gambling on 8 or 9 players bought 3-4 real quality players. TBH last season thought rodgers was brilliant but have NEVER liked his transfer policy.

off the top of my head could have had higuain, konpplayanka, medel (or alonso), and begovic - then given youth players a chance

Very good post Roland-dinho. We should have spent the money on 5 quality players instead of signing 9 decent ones. This could well have been more affordable and solved most of the team's problems.
GK- Trapp (around 10m GBP)
LB- Happy with Moreno (12m GBP)
CDM- Schneiderlin (around 20m GBP)
LWM- Konoplyanka (around 12m GBP)
ST- J.Martinez (around 30m GBP)
All these figures would be close to their actual transfer fees and cost much lesser compared to what the club spent this summer. Additionally, players like Wisdom, Ibe, Rossiter, Teixiera and Suso would have gotten more game time. Of the players that left the club, Kelly is the one i would have tried to keep and preferred Migs to move on and maybe Enrique.

27 Nov 2014 17:07:33
tbh mate those are just the players I wanted (esp kono), not a manager or expert but couldn't have done worse! just baffled by our transfer/development policy, people can say transfers are gambles and if so how come Southampton got so many right and we got soo many wrong? We needed mature experienced players who could come in and make in impact, don't have to spend a fortune just better scouting (tadic, pelle, remy, wanyama, mirallas, etc)

IMO we needed; a striker, a left sided forward, a DM, a LB, and probably a GK. Lallana and Markovic are not wide players (prefer playing more central, where coutinho, sterling, suso, and gerrard suit playing) leaving us with about 5 AMs and no natural wide players. As talented as I think he is and as much as i want it to work, mario doesn't like he will (can argue needs a second striker supporting him but unless sturridge is fit don't see how any partnership would work, leaving are whole attack force reliant on sturridge). Think Can is very talented and maybe in the future will show his worth, but needed DM and now only have lucas and about 4 players who can play CM (hendo, allen, can, gerrard). Really like lovren as a player but if you are going to keep skrtel, why buy him? Would have preferred to sell skrtel and use lovren, sakho, ilori, and toure - but if you really want to keep skrtel it was a pointless buy (manquillo confuses me as well).

As a result we've either sold, annoyed or loaned must of our young talent. Added to that have 4 strikers and yet still nearly completely reliant one 1 injury prone one, 5 AMs, no wide players, 1 DM and a defence which cannot defend. Hate to moan just hoping someone can explain how this is meant to work?

The players i mentioned were just the ones I could think of but don't want big names or star players. Just players where you can see why they were bought and where they are meant to play. Remy, kono, and medal would be about £30m for the trio, would have been over the moon with them! add maybe moreno and a keeper then give youth a chance would have had 3/4 am (suso, couts, sterling, stevie) 2 wide forwards (kono, ibe, and a few who can play there) 2 strikers who score and two who support, 2 DMs (lucas and medal start easing in rossiter) and 3 cms (stevie, allen, and henderson) and 4 CBs (toure, ilori, sakho, lovren/skrtel). Just look at Chelsea's team, a well balanced team where you can look at where someone plays and their role in the team.

hate to moan and apologise for the length but just don't get how this team is meant to work or the plans for the future

Roland I agree with most of your post, as I see Can being the able replacement for Stevie G, I don't like Moreno, as he can't defend, isn't that his priority, is too small and teams target that, just look at the Everton game, we really need a manager who can give us that balance that we need, and that you spoke of .

Decent point, but I'd argue Can has not been a waste of money. For, what, £10million, he's shown enough promise for me so far to suggest he has a big future at the club. Our shining light against both Madrid away and Chelsea at home.

27 Nov 2014 19:09:09
Really really like can as a player and maybe will fulfil his potential but more important was a top DM. Look what magic has done for chelsea

27 Nov 2014 07:41:35
Just want to say RIP to Phil Hughes the Australian batsman who sadly passed away at the age of just 25.

27 Nov 2014 03:55:27
Why did we buy Lallana, Moreno, Can if they sit on the bench? When I see the team sheet with Johnson, Skertl, Allen it gives me the same feeling I used to have when it was Adam, Spearing, Joe Cole. I just know we won't win. It's really sad, I'm at the point that I don't even want to watch the games!

27 Nov 2014 04:25:06
Allen is not a bad player from the lot. He has been played as an offensive midfielder which he is not.

It's because LFC's squad was very "thin" according to the manager.

We have Brendan as our manager. Expect more of these clangers mate, savor them while Brendan is around because no other manager will be able to repeat such feats. On a serious note, Brendan has shown once again he has no b***s. What was Gerrard doing on the pitch for 90 mins? We had 2 quality CAMs parking their backsides on the bench yet Brendan continues with Gerrard irrespective of his poor performances. Maybe Brendan is hoping for an early sacking to get as much severance package as possible or he is just stupid an clueless. And the less said about Mr Migs the better.

27 Nov 2014 06:42:57
Apart from class A grade managers none could drop a name GERRARD.
BR is helpless

{Ed001's Note - even when he misbehaves off the pitch he gets away with it because of who he is, what chance does an insecure manager like Rodgers have of winning a battle with him? The guy has too much power for Rodgers to take on.}

Maybe Gerrard needs to be shown the door if managers have insecurities over his influence within the club. How has this not come to the notice of FSG? Or are they blinded as well by what he has done for the club in the past? LFC owes no one and that includes Gerrard. Let him move on if he is unwilling to accept a bit part role in the setup. Would also free up 140-150k a week from the age bill because he is offering nothing for the team at them moment even as a CAM.

27 Nov 2014 07:29:27
Indian

He has been the face of the club from quiet a long long time. Hate to say but he is not just a player. Much bigger.

{Ed001's Note - and that is the problem, he should never have been anything other than a player.}

27 Nov 2014 08:15:08
Has Gerrard ever given any actual indication beyond people's assumptions that he'll be unhappy or fight the manager if he's not played for 90 minutes every match?

Hjinkle I think the fact he's never dropped answers that one for you.
I dunno if you have ever met him but he does have a nasty streak.

27 Nov 2014 08:57:44
Hjike

Have we ever dropped him for 4 successive games?

27 Nov 2014 09:32:22
How rubbish do Gerrard, skrtel, Johnson, mignolet need to be to be dropped ????.

27 Nov 2014 10:13:33
Tommy

We did not buy a keeper last window and expected Migs to finally improve after being poor whole last season.
We have no choice other than to play Migs till we buy a top class keeper.

27 Nov 2014 11:51:57
No. And I don't think we need to either. But the indication is that he's not dropped because BR doesn't have the power to drop him, but that would surely indicate that he's not willing to go with BR's team selection if it doesn't include him. But is that a fact or an assumption? He might be perfectly willing to sit for all we know.

We needed 2 or 3 players ready to go straight into the first team. After we failed miserably obtaining anything of the sort, the messaging simply changed to we needed depth, although exactly why you need 9 players to play 6 more games is beyond me.

Gerrard is not the only player w/ that type of power at a club. Raul (RM), Terry (Chelsea), Ramos and Ronaldo (RM) and their ilk have the same power. Raul (I loved as a player) was rumored to decide who played and who didn`t (made Anelka`s life a living hell). It happens and it takes a well-proven manager to undo that (like Mou who fazed out Raul because Pellegrini didn`t have the b**s nor the degree to do it). BR doesn`t have the pedigree to confront SG because he will get himself sacked by doing that alone.

27 Nov 2014 01:35:22
100 million on players this summer. Freezing cold atmosphere. Shortened rest from the last week. Yet one sub in the entire game used, and our best player on the night, bar lambert, was the one subbed.

What did we learn? Nothing, because the same problems still exist. We know Lucas and toure should be playing. We know Gerrard needs to be dropped some; I don't understand how the oldest player on the pitch is always starting. We know mignolet is. mignolet. We know alberto Moreno is 100x better than johnson, and should always start over him. We know we need two strikers playing.

How many of the above things will ever happen under Rodgers? I'm happy we at least kept our chances alive, but I have little faith in things improving. I hope I'm proven wrong, but I just don't see it.

27 Nov 2014 03:36:43
Fact: Migs on his worst form won't be dropped for Brad jones.
We need to buy one next window else more Migs show.

Against Chelsea, Can and Coutinho were our best players and were subbed off.
Against Crystal Palace, our best players were Lallana and Allen and both were subbed off.
Our best performers in the games against RM, Chelsea etc did not even start in the next couple of games. So the question is why Brendan is doing this? Is the man this clueless or was he just born stupid? Its basic commonsense that u play your in-form players and bench those who are short of confidence but Brendan is doing the exact opposite. I think he has lost his mind, and knows a decision has already been made by FSG to get rid. His recent interviews have been pretty mellow, and sugarcoated with blind optimism rather than making excuses because the owners have clearly had enough of this con artist.

Passion_pride_LFC, i think u are underestimating Brad Jones. Given a run of games, i think he could be a decent stand in option till we get a new keeper in January. The club needs to sort out its coaching setup now and fast forward the signing of a quality keeper in Jan rather than wait till the summer. Along with Brendan, the likes of Skrtel, Gerrard, Mr Migs, Johnson, Enrique are all part of the problem and need replacing.

I thought Moreno cost us 2 points by turning his back on a cross after coming on only 5 mins before.
You'd think he would take one in the face for the team.
This is the 3rd goal this season that Moreno has contributed to by error.
Piss Poor.

27 Nov 2014 08:05:42
Jonny

Mate Y did we bring Moreno for Sterling?

27 Nov 2014 09:43:40
Passion Johnny Giles and didi hamann said on RTE he handed the initiative to them with that substitution.strange.

27 Nov 2014 10:19:21
Tommy

It makes no sense to bring a LB for a LW if you wanna see out the game.
Y not a defender with 3 at the back to finish off
Else a midfielder.
If you want to keep the same momentum on the flank y not Markovic?

Would have been hard to bring on Markovic since he wasn't even on the bench.

Johnbarnes is spot on! Moreno completely punked out and was prob afraid of messing up his face and hairdo. This is what I`ve been saying for ages. Our defenders just fold under pressure and are not ready to throw their bodies in the way for the cause. They lack the mentalitiy and attitude to defend and sacrifice themselves for the result and that can ONLY come from the manager who is soft, arrogant and stubborn and who cannot coach how to defend a simple set-piece to save his life.

27 Nov 2014 01:16:31
Hi eds,

Would Ancelotti consider coming to Liverpool once this season is over? I read some rumours claiming that he was going to leave Real at the end of the season and he wanted to return to England. Personally, I think he'd be a great replacement for Rodgers.

Thanks eds.

{Ed001's Note - I have no idea sorry.}

Would be brilliant if we could get him. But he would be a short term solution, and i doubt FSG want that. If they intend to go down with a DOF and head coach combination, then i would rather Ancelotti as DOF and someone willing to be a subordinate as head coach.

27 Nov 2014 03:48:25
Anchelotti or any big name would need serious money which we don't have right now.
I personally want us to go and get proven name.

27 Nov 2014 11:00:08
@Passion_pride_LFC: didn't you just contradict yourself there? Most proven managers would require serious money since most would be unavailable, on high wages already, or would not even entertain the idea of coming to liverpool

26 Nov 2014 22:45:04
Evening Eds

What do u make of tonights result and has it been seen as a negative result within the club?

{Ed002's Note - I have no idea how it is viewed inside the club. For me, Liverpool need to be winning games such as this.}

Dezmondo, is that even a question? Everyone associated with LFC should be embarrassed and ashamed after a string of poor performances including last night. Brendan blew over 200 million GBP, and has nothing to show for it. The club is basically back to square one even after so much money was invested, how can this not be a negative?

27 Nov 2014 03:24:35
Should have gone for the win. I don't see us beating Basel at home.

Agreed Passion_pride_LFC, i think Basel will nick a draw and progress and we will be stuck in the Europa League where there are at least a dozen teams who are better than us. Its a lost cause now, FSG would be better off getting rid of Brendan now, he is simply making the situation worse.

It is beyond belief how a team cannot defend set-pieces and aven`t done so for 2yrs yet the coach still plays the same woeful defenders and expects diff results.

27 Nov 2014 08:16:27
Indian, if there's a dozen teams better than us I'm the Europa league, does that mean there's 15 teams better than us if we qualify for knockout?

27 Nov 2014 08:24:21
WelshBoyDave - at least we get the CL money from progressing to the knockout round (assuming it's not withheld) and are in a competition where we're the worst of the best, not middle of the decent

27 Nov 2014 09:43:08
Nicely phrased Jinkle!

{Ed002's Note - It has already been decided that at least part of the CL money for Liverpool is being withheld subject to investigation. This is nothing new.}

After spending about 120 million on players last summer, we are still left with a poor goalie, two poor full backs, three if you include moreno who just can't defend and is for me too small, we have too many small players, who are just brushed off the ball ;
no proper defensive midfielder, no proper striker, looks like were now a mid table side, so don't expect too much from us until we change the manager, and let go about 6/7 players .