Liverpool Banter Archive October 27 2014

27 Oct 2014 22:41:57
I think the most disappointing thing about our form is the huge affect it has had on our confidence just look at the poll of the day more than half think we won't beat swansea? Its so frustrating because we thought we would beat anyone last season. I hooe rodgers wakes up and smells the coffee and goes back to last seasons tactics of just going for it, we might not have suarez but we have everyone else and a few otgers. A few good results and i'm sure people will perk back up again.

Sick of hearing people go on about Rodgers "just going for it" like last season. Do you think we are playing more defensively minded? Did you not see the first 20 against Real and how the lads pressed and "went for it"? You can only keep that up for so long if you don't get the result your efforts were hoping for. Do we need to repeat that last season we had the best attacking duo in Europe (IMO, I did say duo).
Ring Ring:
"Hello?"
"Hello Brendan, Mr Armchair Expert here. Say, have you considered "just going for it" like last season?"
BR: "Oh of course! I forgot, just go for it. Phew, glad you reminded me Mr Armchair Expert."
Top of the table here we come :)

Ever wondered what the result would be Burkeyboy if we continued 'going for it' even after going 1 nil down?

I don't have a problem with attacking footy. My point is that the players are still looking to get forward, create chances, hit fast on the counter. The issue isn't that they're not trying, or have switched to a different style, but missing suarez and sturridge massively effects the dynamic of the attack. But people's comments sound like they think BR has changed style or system. That's surely not the case? You can see players on the ball, head up looking for a run or option, but the forward line doesn't have that in them at the moment, certainly not like last season, that's my point.

It ia common knowledge that we are playing a more reserved style than last season we are sitting deeper and splitting the centre back without a real defensive midfielder it invites pressure the furst 20 mins against real and sputs are the only examples of us pressing it is its the only time I have been impressed with our football. I just don't understand why we would take a step backwards

28 Oct 2014 08:43:03
Spot on Burkeyboy.

It's the inability of the strikers making the system look different.

The defenders aren't bad players, yet they are still exposed - as they were last season!

To me, that suggests things aren't really different from last season other than the strikers being different, and with Daniel being injured, it explains it all.

Lucas needs a consistent run of games.

Davy, so who's fault is it that things aren't different to last year?
Who is the one not picking Lucas?
Who didn't buy the right replacement for Suarez and suitable cover for the injury prone Sturridge?

27 Oct 2014 20:28:40
Hi Eds and reds sorry for the long post. I want to hear what people think about what I read here almost every day where some people say that BR 'deserves' our loyalty - at least until the end of the season, because of last year.

The way I see it there are 3 groups of fans here. There are those who think that whatever BR should now because if he wasn't able to fix the problems so far he will not be able to turn around in the future (not enough to take us to top 4 anyway). Then you have those who think that he should stay because he may still turn things around and stability is important and also there is no clear world class candidate to replace him. What is common to both those groups is that if, on theory (unfortunately), the likes of Mourinho or Guardiola tomorrow split with their team and say they are available for us, all the above fans, if they are the owners, say goodbye to BR on the spot and run for the alternative. For all these fans the only things that matter is who can bring the best results for the team.

But some people here sem to argue that regardless of the availablity of better managers or the possibility of major improvement we owe BR some loyalty because of last year. I admit that I find this view surprising. With all due respect, these managers are top porofessionals who earn huge sums of money, to do their job and to deliver results. Still, even me don't say managers or players can never deserve a different treatment from their team. A 15 years captain, a 25 years manager as Sir Alex, is a different story. You know what, probably even if BR would brought us the title last year after more than 20 years without it, I would accept he earned a year of fans' silence. However 2nd place, with all it being beyond the expectations of early season last year and a very very attractive team, is still only 2nd place. It is not a trophy, we have been there 5 years ago, and if all it means is a single CL visit which in itslef is quite humiliating and if we cannot build on that 2nd place for the future but go back to 6-7 place next year than maybe it is not such a big deal. And for me the jury is still out as to what was BR's role in last season. I gave him a lot of credit together with Suarez but if Suarez goes and it all falls apart despite of all the signings, than maybe it is less BR and more Suarez.

But even if last season is all BR's genious, still if all the 2nd place mean that we are back to 7 this season, then for me he doesn't deserve anything. He did his job, was paid for it nicely and let's call it a day (if there is a good replacement).

Perhaps a new world class manager will be attracted to us by our loyal and knowledgeable fans

27 Oct 2014 15:25:09
Good afternoon Eds

I've been reading your comments down the page about our aims this season. Do you think we are good enough and will even challenge a top 4 spot?

{Ed002's Note - I see Liverpool in the mix for the lower European places - 4/5.}

Cheers mate, that's what I think tbh. Do you suspect BR position may be questioned if we do indeed finish 4th or 5th?

{Ed002's Note - The owners are in this for success on and off the field. All I can suggest that if BR cannot deliver it would make sense to look for someone who can - look what happened at the Red Sox.}

27 Oct 2014 12:16:50
With Chelsea running away with it, I think the most exciting thing this season will be between us, Arsenal and United for 3rd and 4th

27 Oct 2014 12:45:18
If City don't pick up, they'll be in that fight as well and it'll be 2nd, 3rd and 4th. You might say they definitely will, but I'm sure people said that about Chelsea last season as well

27 Oct 2014 21:47:24
Agreed, think chelsea are the only team in the BPL that show any form of consistency. Think unless things change dramatically they'll walk it, also think they are the only english team with any chance of getting near the CL. Real showed the difference between us and them but think they'd do the same to city or arsenal as well

27 Oct 2014 11:49:06
Hi edds a quick question if I may.

If you had to pick a manager for us who and why would you pick them?

{Ed002's Note - Guillermo Barros Schelotto.}

Bielsa, for me he is a great manager at getting the best out of his squad . He is however a bit of a firebrand .I would love to see his team talks if he was witnessing the level of performance we are producing . .

That being said if Brenda can up his learning curve he will be a good manager for us I am sure . I just think that inexperience only tends to show when things go wrong.

{Ed002's Note - Thinking more about this, I would not discount Ron Jans. Perhaps Tab Ramos as a general manager helping out BR?}

I actually agree, someone coming in to assist BR would be great .

I expect Sami Hypia will be available very soon .I think he would be an ideal addition to the coaching staff .

I do however think that it would need BR to buy into and that might be an issue for him.

Ed I've literally never heard of any of them 3 guys! Can you shed any light on why you think they'd be good fits?

{Ed002's Note - Schelotto speaks English, is a nice guy, has a growing reputation as a coach. Ron Jans is a very good and very experienced coach. Fluent in several languages and always looking for a new challenge. Tab Ramos has been approached about a general manager position by a European side and USSF have warned the team off. At some point he will take a role in Europe.

They all fit.}

Rudi Garcia?

27 Oct 2014 15:33:33
Ed002 are you a spy? You seem to know everyone. It's quite impressive; I can barely keep up with who is running for senate.

{Ed002's Note - I cannot tell you that.}

Schelotto and Ramos have no experience and are still wet behind the ears in my opinion. Too much of a risk for FSG.
Jans is a bit hit and miss, he tends to finish mid table in his first season - not good enough for LFC.

It needs to be someone with a track record of success in my opinion not a newby with no knowledge of European football.
I'd go for De Boer or Klopp.

I personally like lucien favre, He plays a brand of football much like Liverpool did last year. Although I've only seen 4 games. since 2013, but I was impressed.
For the time being I'm happy with BR in charge, does it look like any one is in for favre at all?

27 Oct 2014 10:49:51
Saw a bit of an argument about last season's performance from Ed001 and a few posters. It's quite clear Ed001 isn't a fan of Brendan and neither am I to be honest.

The argument is about how well we played last season but did we?

The first half of the season, as Ed001 pointed out, was quite poor and it looked like the top 4 would run away from us. If it wasn't for Arsenal's abysmal collapse, Chelsea having an actual striker who scores, City's team being arsed and Tottenham not having a complete looney of a manager we'd have struggled.

We was awfully defensively and if we didn't have the best striker in the world we wouldn't have come anywhere near top 4. You lot keep saying we still win without Suarez. We played the first 4 games of the season without him last season. 1-0 1-0 1-0 and 2-2. If it wasn't for Mignolet we could've drawn 1-1 against Stoke, could've lost 2-1 to aston villa and Man United could always have nicked a goal. Swansea gifted us goals as well. Rodgers tactics last season consisted of getting Sterling Coutinho Suarez and Sturridge as attacking as possible. It worked, but now Suarez has gone we have no idea how to score.

27 Oct 2014 12:31:24
nevermind how many of our rivals weren't quite up to it, we amassed enough points to easily win the league under normal circumstances and blew teams away in the process.

funny how people are questioning "how good we actually were" now when the chips are down and not at the end of last season.

Actually 87red, I was worried every game with our shoddy defence. I was always worried Suarez would get sent off too. We was lucky we had the best striker in the world. That's it. Take him away and we've got an average 6th place finish team. The point I was making was that Rodgers had nothing to do with it. He actually ruined our chances by going to Chelsea and trying to get a win. He should've played for the draw. Any other top manager would've.

I remember when the season finished, and I posted, why did we not win the premiership, no-one really replied, but I knew that we blew it, we were so so close, think if we had an experienced manager, knowing what we needed from the last 3/4 games, we would have been champions, BR is still making way too many mistakes, the biggest, not replacing the only world class player we had, with another, similar type player, just look at what he spent 40 million on, and are strikers cannot score from 3 yards .

27 Oct 2014 19:12:46
eusebio agree with you 100%.

27 Oct 2014 10:15:33
We have started the season poor I agree, but not only did we lose the best striker in the league last season we have also lost the second best striker in the league.

With sturridge back i'm sure we will see a change, balo offers no movement so on his own he is struggling.

Even though we have started crap how about city and arsenal neither team lost there best player but yet we still find ourselves around them.

27 Oct 2014 09:44:33
hello eds
just a quick question to ask what the implications would be if we don't qualify for the champions league come the end of this season

{Ed002's Note - Financially significant. FFP wise problematic. Owners would I suspect by unhappy. However if the owners don't act soon to start to rejig the club they could perhaps be culpable, at least to some extent. Spending vast amounts for yet another year of transition will not be a viable option.}

Ed are the owners aware of this amd do u no if they intend to do do something soon? cheers

{Ed002's Note - They will be aware.}

26 Oct 2014 20:09:20
Question for Ed1, Waro, Ozone and all those that want a change in management, ownership and/or players.

Since we are known to be knowledgable supporters and we all have different opinions, briefly what do you think would be the best scenario for the club? Who needs to go, and who would you like to come in and why? Can you explain why BR doesn't deserve time to turn things around?

I don't want to know what we should/could have done because the past is the past. I want to know what you guys think is the best way going forward.

Red Rum

{Ed001's Note - there is no brief way of answering so many questions. Sorry. As for time to turn it around, he is in his 3rd year and he has not turned anything around, that is time enough.}

While I have been critical of BR on many aspects, I don't think it is time to sack him. He has shown himself up as stubborn, which is a good quality if you are a willing learner. Unless there is a change in performance and results, I expect the pressure to mount on BR. It is therefor important that he puts aside his pride, and accept whatever help that he can get and more importantly, stop embarrassing himself with his interviews. Keep it simple, basic and diplomatic.

The best scenario for the club would be to win every game for the rest of the season and walk away with four trophies. I suspect that's pretty well not going to happen though.

I see no reason to do anything personnel wise so long as we stay a good distance from relegation.

At the end of the season, if we're not in a European spot, then changes need to be made. Personally, in that event my preference would be to find a very good DoF and convince them to take the job.

If we are in CL, no worries, BR's done something right and can continue, although I'd still take a critical look at the whole transfer committee concept.

A Europa League spot for me would result in serious discussions and I don't know how I would feel at that point.

I don't want Brendan to lose his job, I just think it is the most likely scenario at the end of the season. If he fails to qualify for the champions league, I think he will be removed. I think Chelsea, Arsenal and City will finish top 3 and we're in a battle for the other place.
If we don't get it, he will go.
As for possibilities: Klopp is likely to be available, we know FSG like him, De Boer is a possibility and maybe Simeone? It would have to be someone with a track record of winning in my opinion.

Ed001 what or who are you comparing Rodgers performance too when you say he has not turned us around? Under Hodgson we were in the bottom 3 after 8 games and were 12th, with a dire team, when he was dismissed. Under Kenny we managed only 2 wins in his last 12 games, again with a poor team after some shocking buys in the transfer market. Last season we came so so close to winning the league playing scintillating football. Much was down to Luis and Studge, but the whole team and BR were fantastic. We couldn't keep hold of Luis and it's been a disaster that Danny has been out for so long, but even taking that into account and knowing that the new boys would take some time to gel we are still only 3 points off City in third place. I just think very few fans are realistic in their ambitions.

{Ed001's Note - I am comparing it to when he took charge. The defence has got worse, the ridiculous system he failed with initially has been reinstated and is again failing. What Hodgson done is completely irrelevant and only blinkered people would suggest it is a useful comparison, considering Hodgson ran a team with no money on the verge of admin. Rodgers, on the other hand, has been given plentiful money and has made the team worse through his spending. We came close to winning the league last season because the rest of the league were shockingly bad, and then we threw it away anyway due to poor management.}

27 Oct 2014 08:11:47
Absolute rubbish ed001. You achy simply rewrite history to suit your opinions. The reason we were second last year is because we played excellent football and destroyed most teams in the second half of the season. The league is the same as it's always been, maybe a little more open. Chelsea are in the same position as arsenal were this time last year

{Ed001's Note - seriously? Is it not your delusion is blinding you to the truth. How many teams played well last season? Even we didn't in the first half of the season. Just because the truth is unpalatable doesn't mean it is not true and being gobby about it won't change the fact that you are wrong. The league was awful last season, the previous season's champions were in complete disarray, Chelsea were in transition, City were throwing away points they should have got easy, and Arsenal and Spurs are simply not good enough to challenge. Yet we still ended up second in a complete shambles of a league. Yes we played some exciting football towards the end of the season, but we were terrible at the start playing the exact same system and tactics as Rodgers have once again reverted to. The reason we were second last year is because Rodgers was not good enough to win it when the opportunity was there. Bias blinds you, sadly.}

Ed001 am I blinkered just because I don't happen to share your point of view? I don't agree that the team is worse than the one he inherited from Kenny. I don't agree that we lost the league last year down to poor management, we exceeded all expectations to get any where near winning the league. Utd were poor last year, and long may it continue, but how were City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Everton so bad? I don't think you are giving the team the credit they deserve for last year.I do agree that it is right for FSG to expect top 4 again this year after the investment they have made and no doubt BR position will be in jeopardy if we don't achieve it. I just don't think calling for a manager to be replaced 9 games into a season following the best season in recent history is the right thing to do. Blinkers back on.

{Ed001's Note - Arsenal were poor, did you not watch them capitulate a number of times? They are soft. City were too open and threw away easy results. Chelsea never ever went for the league last season. Everton are simply not strong enough, they don't have the squad depth to win the title. You are blinkered because you can't see that, instead you are going on about how wonderful our failure was! Sorry but coming second is not good enough for me, you might celebrate failure but I don't.}

The manager has bought some time in what happened last season but there where many mitigating circumstances that helped him last year which you don't need me to list as you should know them already ( one of which was stumbling on a formation/style of play because he wanted to shoe horn Suarez & Sturridge into the team ), but as I've stated many times already this season, he brought too many in and not in the right areas and he needs to pick what HE thinks is our best 11 and stick with them.

I'm not going to go into the owners again because if you have asked me directly in your post a specific question then your familiar with my opinions of them, what I will say though is, we may pay over inflated fees for players but they won't pay the wages, which is why were over paying for gambles, and it's no coincidence that the two times during F$G'S tenure where we have sold our best player to finance a spending spree, with minimal spending coming from the owners pocket, but they are just as much to blame as Kenny and Brendan as they will not buy the best player they can for the right position because of age for resale value and won't pay the top end wage bracket for the one or two high end players that can make that extra difference in grabbing a point when you look dead and buried ( i.e. yesterday ) or turn draws into wins when a game is petering out.

We where at a crossroads during the summer where the if the correct players where identified in the right areas, we could have gone that step further and won the league, but yet again the manager has to work in this transfer structure geared around transfer gambles on unproven young players who you an get most of your money back on if they don't work out! That in IMO is why people need to take the blinkers off with regards these owners. Hope that's answered your question mate.

{Ed002's Note - Liverpool's wages have grown considerably and are well beyond the FFP criteria for a breach.}

I see no reason for a change of management as long as top 4 is achieved. If not then money spent, players purchased and style of play will all come into question. I guess around Christmas we will have an idea of where we are.

{Ed002's Note - From the perspective of the owners the target after the amount of time and money wasted is not simply to make the top four. BR has promised more if they made money available - and they did. If not winning the EPL then putting in a damn good challenge would be expected in addition for challenging for the Champions League. Having a manager who comes out and says the club will do better in the second half of the season and talks of transition would not instil confidence. Just take a look at what happened at the Red Sox.}

Ed I don't celebrate failure I simply enjoyed watching us play last year, we were brilliant at times, and I am realistic on our chances now and in the future when you have to compete against the likes of City and Chelsea with their billionaire owners. the games moved on and we are unlikely to ever dominate like we did in 70's & 80's so if you can only get enjoyment from coming first I suggest unfortunately that you are in for a lot of disappointment

{Ed001's Note - so did I, but we failed and all that Rodgers earnt from that glorious failure was a chance to show he learnt from it. Instead he asked for ludicrous amounts of players, refuses to trust youth players (despite youngsters being the ones that didn't let us down repeatedly last season), and puts out a team to play his original boring negative failing system that had let him down in his first season and the beginning of last. Clearly nothing was learnt and he is failing once again to learn by his arrogant refusal to get help with the defensive coaching.}

27 Oct 2014 09:27:43
Ed001, So coming 2nd is a failure as far as you re concerned? Try telling that to all he silver medalists at the Olympics, or the runners up at the World Cup, Wimbledon The Open etc etc.
With the purchase power of Arsenal, Citeh, Chelski and Man U we had a massive problem getting into the top 4 let alone win the league. And but for a tragic slip by S

{Ed001's Note - I am sure every single one of them were there to win and would consider a silver medal little more than a consolation. They were merely first of the losers, no matter how much you try to gloss it over with this ludicrous argument.}

Edd001 agree with you on everything. All sense and truth to it.
The funny thing is you say last seasons league was poor, this season the league is worse IMO, just highlights how poor we are atm.

27 Oct 2014 13:26:58
Ed002
I appreciate what you have posted. For me i think the owners would be mugs if they sack a manager that is in the top 4. I also think they are mugs to believe that anything other than possibly getting past the group stages in the CL is ppossible. We shall see i guess. Cheers

{Ed002's Note - They crave success and have spent a lot of money to achieve that. The club is in debt and will be taking on more with the stadium. It is worth less than they have invested. That needs to change.}

Ed01 i'm in complete agreement, i would go as far as saying the way we played in the second half of the season was a happy accident instigated by the infectious leadership of suarez on the pitch. He is adamant he wants to play tika taka and he is doing himself out of a job because his stubborness. I certainly did not celebrate coming second, the equaliser at palace reiterated how inexperienced he is especially after the chelsea game. Although i do hope he wakes up from his brain fart and sets us up properly going forward because i don't think changing a manager every year is productive.

Waro and Ed001 have pretty much covered how I feel on the issue Red Rum. For the record, I personally feel Andy Carroll let Kenny down, we're certainly no further forward under Ted in terms of the quality in the squad but this is strangled by the detrimental transfer policy designed to ensure minimum risk exposure for the owners, if any, on each player as an asset. I genuinely believe if Kenny had been given another year, we'd be in a better place, it know plenty will disagree but that's my opinion. We played some great stuff under Kenny utilising natural width in a 442, I remember us destroying Chelsea in the Carling cup and the Lucas injury was the turning point in our season. If we'd acquired Diame in the January and the Evra incipient hadn't occurred, I think that season would've ended differently and maybe Kenny would still be at the helm. I certainly believe the money spent by Rodgers and co would have been better spent by Kenny.