Liverpool Banter Archive June 28 2015

28 Jun 2015 23:39:02
Pay 30 plus million for a striker to sit on the bench (squad player) or if sturridge is fit,play along side him and it weakens the team. The front three will be sturridge, continho and firminho When fit.
Benteke is a good player but I donot see how the transfer benefits Liverpool And himself. He does not suit our play and we do not play to his strengths. Not to forget he is massively over priced. It is a potential bad buy if it goes through.
The transfer policy again looks to have no clear pattern or thought And to add to that what younger players will get a chance now that the squad is being overburdened.

28 Jun 2015 22:17:02
Bacca was a better option than benteke . Granted the age thing and re sale value wasn't an option . But he was a better option and intel on he could have contributed more to the team , and we could have gone for top 4 . That would recoup the fee to a degree . The risk for me was more on benteke . Injuries and suitable for our style etc

28 Jun 2015 22:51:23
What a way to come crashing back to earth after Firmino.

Surely £32.5million would buy us someone more suited?

28 Jun 2015 23:42:31
Benteke is a terrible signing Andy Carroll mark 2 imo

29 Jun 2015 00:44:50
We're about to make the same mistake again, IMO.

28 Jun 2015 20:14:36
I'd not mine if LFC send Sterling on his greedy way to ManC bench for 35mil plus Bony.

28 Jun 2015 21:25:40
Bony is not good enough. Do people not realise we need a natural goalscorer. Someone who's monile and fits our style who can constantly grab 25+ goals a season

28 Jun 2015 21:31:28
Agree DBol! The striker that would suit us is Aubameyang! His pace and movement is electric and his finishing is also very good! The premier league imo is perfect for him! Just imagine him, Firmino, Sturridge and Coutinho all in the same team. sorry I've just had a little accident in my pants just thinking about that;)

28 Jun 2015 21:51:34
I like Aubameyang but he isn't really a prolific striker, played on the wing quite a lot.

That's not to say I wouldn't want him and I would take him over Benteke who isn't a bad player but we would never play a style of football that would help him score goals, Aubameyang is blindingly quick, great movement but he isn't an out and out goalscorer.

28 Jun 2015 22:05:50
No but with an attacking line that I've just mentioned, we'd walk into the top 4 (plus with the right manager) and we'd score a shed load of goals. I'm just very surprised that the club are looking at Benteke and aren't considering Aubameyang who Ed002 says wants to move to Italy or stay at Dormund. Pity really because he is the one realistic striker that I want so badly!

28 Jun 2015 23:09:45
Bony would walk into your team. And there's no way city would pay you £35m plus bony for an over rated winger with no end product!

28 Jun 2015 23:52:39
Aubameyang would be perfect for us I agree, he played mainly uptop last season I believe. 16 goals so not too bad in a struggling Dortmund team. One of the quickest players in the bundesliga and can play any position across front 3 him, firmino and Sturridge with coutinho pulling the strings would be amazing Henderson and Lucas providing the base

29 Jun 2015 00:34:42
But not striker because Ciro airmobile was the striker.

29 Jun 2015 00:35:26
Sorry, I meant, Ciro Imobile!

29 Jun 2015 00:55:02
Bony would definitely improve us. He'd also be a lot more suited than Benteke.

{Ed002's Note - And he is not moving to Liverpool.}

29 Jun 2015 01:12:03
No worries Ed002, didn't think it was happening I was trying to keep the banter realistic. E.g. Jovetic, Benteke, Bony - none of them are awful as posters are suggesting (referring to posts the past few days/week) but these players get slated unfairly just because fans don't want them.

29 Jun 2015 01:55:02
Airmobile Ohio, auto correct at its finest, outside of someone recently typing that Ilori and Sakho would be a "soiled" partnership.

29 Jun 2015 04:51:00
just check the highlighits of Bony at Swansea and tell me he is not good enough playing in a similar side that play possession football quick wingers yet his touch and movement makes him not only fit in but also scores goals which we need.

28 Jun 2015 18:51:55
Is it likely that the Sterling deal has already been done but we are waiting to announce so we can get deals done without even higher price tags? Similar to when Bale to Madrid

28 Jun 2015 20:15:41
No mate, have you seen the Firmino fee. i'd presume city are waiting until july to make a fresh bid due the ffp issues.

29 Jun 2015 01:23:05
Why does it matter when they bid if the transfer can't go through until July anyway?

28 Jun 2015 17:04:42
What would everyone's thoughts be on a move for Hernanes? Is a good player though at 30 we'll only a get a good 2-3 years from him. More suited to the deep suited role than kovacic and also considerably cheaper than Kovacic. Saying that i think kovacic is the better player.
Ed1 what do you think about hernanes as player mate?

{Ed001's Note - not really seen enough of him in recent years to judge him.}

28 Jun 2015 19:54:17
He's still a good player, my only worry is that he is a creator and not very good at the defensive side of the game. I don't see what he would add that we don't have already besides a dead ball specialist.

28 Jun 2015 20:00:15
Not needed at all

28 Jun 2015 20:17:08
Wouldnt it be better to get him and when he leaves our youth will be ready e.g chirivella,rossiter,williams

28 Jun 2015 21:21:53
He is not a deep mid . He breaks the lines and gets forward . He's a good player . He's lively

28 Jun 2015 22:55:32
We have no dead ball capability or threat so he would be a great addition / option.

29 Jun 2015 00:47:21
And who leaves when he comes, where will he play and who will replace or do those questions no longer matter? He's not needed and we will not sign him. Next!

29 Jun 2015 03:44:49
Anyone would think inter have a squad equal to Real Madrid judging by the way we have shown interest in their players. They haven't finished above 5th in the last 3 years in a poor league. Other than kovacic who is still young and developing we should steer clear of most of their players.

28 Jun 2015 17:56:03
Hi eds, first time poster. Loving this site at this time of year.
2 questions.
Is there any teams interested in taking joe Allen off our hands? Imo he's simply not quite good enough.
Secondly, have we shown any interest in Robinho? Or has he sealed a move to santos permanently?
Cheers

{Ed002's Note - Liverpool has shown no intention of selling Allen that I know of although one of the Eds suggested he had been offered to Swansea. Liverpool has no interest in Robinho.}

29 Jun 2015 00:49:27
Robinho scored a goal and suddenly should be of interest?

28 Jun 2015 17:27:25
Hi eds, who among Hernanes, Illaramendi and Cheryshev would you consider to be a more realistic target for us ?

{Ed002's Note - Measured how? I have explained the situation with all of these players - try the search function.}

28 Jun 2015 18:44:03
Kovacic and Illaramendi would be excellent.

28 Jun 2015 17:17:19
Eds,

You've mentioned that 2017 may be the year that Liverpool and other clubs may become attractive to potential buyers.

How long generally would it take for a buyer at that level to register interest, due diligence done on both sides, money in place and purchase concluded etc.

My guess is this isn't something that would happen over a short period of time and at the price FSG would be looking at there wouldn't be an abundance of consortium's with that sort of cash .

If 2017 is a potential date that FSG may sell would initial conversations already have taken place and do you know of any interested parties?

No rush for me to sell as FSG are great owners , a change of manager only needed and we can be back challenging again no doubt.

{Ed002's Note - Sales can take place in a couple of months or so - as with FSG buying Liverpool.}

28 Jun 2015 15:06:51
Hey Eds. Is any deal for Bacca now dead in the water?
Cheers.
Dodge.

{Ed002's Note - There is no Liverpool deal for Bacca - Liverpool has not placed a bid - why not just read the posts.}

28 Jun 2015 15:34:28
There is a Sky sports article on firmino following his performance for Brazil yesterday.

"Firmino's display will have done little to convince Liverpool fans he can be the one to reinvigorate their mis-firing attack."

Granted by all accounts he had a poor game (I haven't seen it myself yet) but come on. He hasn't even properly joined up with us yet. Poor lad hasn't started and he's getting stick already. If he doesn't start well that price tag is going to start weighing down on him. Like it often does in football.

28 Jun 2015 16:17:51
There isn't any player that doesn't have a bad game. Unfortunatey some fans will read that as gospel and slate him before season even starts.

28 Jun 2015 16:31:41
I guess they failed to mention how the other 10 players didn't play too hot either. Brazil seems to have similar problems to us last season. They lack a dominant center forward. They have a poor coach. And I think they'd do better with two strikers. Problem is, they don't really have even one. Robinho did okay I guess.

28 Jun 2015 16:39:12
apparently emre can was as bad,if not worse

28 Jun 2015 17:02:18
@Wordup
So what?

28 Jun 2015 17:13:39
So as per sky's article, torres, suarez, fowler or owen never had a bad game???
Wait and see after 1st season then judge.
kit

28 Jun 2015 18:27:07
Yeah I actually watched that game having a look at him playing up front but bar coutinho who all things considered still managed to look a classy player no one in the midfield did anything.

So firmino didn't really have a bad game just a game where he only had a couple of instances where he had any chance to get on the ball. they were also no better after he came off either so again people are looking way too much into this.

29 Jun 2015 00:54:14
And who played well in that aweful game for Brazil, exactly?

28 Jun 2015 15:16:22
Are all these rumours of Liverpool being interested in Hernandez just people getting him confused with Hernanes ?

28 Jun 2015 14:11:07
Hi folks, general question with regards Benteke. On the surface, he scores goals, he's a big lump - a big battering ram. He has a presence up front that we lacked somewhat. No one will like playing against him.
However, I have read much negatives about him from the eds and others.
Is it his attitude? Is he lazy? can't he play the pressing game? Is he another Mario?
Anyone got any insight?

28 Jun 2015 14:51:29
Square Peg for a round hole if you ask me (I'll happily be proven wrong though).

His touch isn't the best; we are the lowest crosses of the ball in the league (2014-2015 stats).

I'd prefer a more mobile striker that will close the opposition down / pressing.

28 Jun 2015 17:42:08
Quoting stats like lowest crosses in the league last year doesn't really make sense. I would expect us to have been, with Sterling up front why cross? If we have Benteke then I'm sure we'd cross more with more success. I don't want him at that price we are entering Andy Carroll territory unfortunately

28 Jun 2015 18:30:02
But why buy a player to change the style of play effectively is the point. I'm sure we would cross the ball more to him but why not get a striker or use one of our own who at least we don't have to change the way play to accommodate basically.

28 Jun 2015 22:24:07
Have you considered that the reason we are the lowest crossing team is because of the lack of players like Benteke. Every team plays to its strength and so crossing the ball to Sterling was always a waste of a cross.

28 Jun 2015 22:39:28
ShaneK, do you remember us crossing the ball when Lambert was on the pitch? If we sign him it will immediately be a mistake and a very expensive one at that. I'm not slating Benteke at all here, it's just we've seen so many times that Rodgers has some kind of agenda against crossing the ball.

28 Jun 2015 14:08:04
Hi Ed002,
the club will try to sell Borini, Balotelli and Lambert as I understand. What about Origi next season - starter, bench or going on loan? thanks.

{Ed002's Note - No idea, sorry.}

28 Jun 2015 17:14:16
Balotelli is going to take some shifting. No one in their right mind would pay more than £2M for him now.

28 Jun 2015 17:49:26
Why not Lenin?

A bargain if he goes back to the Italian league where he is proven.

29 Jun 2015 00:56:56
There are clubs interested but the club is asking too much

28 Jun 2015 12:53:24
Can see 3 options for Ilori at Liverpool.

Option 1

One more year for Toure, Skrtel signs new deal in summer and Ilori goes on loan at Championship club for a season to gain experience in English football.

Next summer Toure is replaced as 4th choice CB by Ilori with a view to becoming 1st choice following season.

Option 2

Skrtel leaves this summer and he comes in as 4th choice a year earlier than above. Gets game time in cups and when injuries to Lovren, Toure & Sakho.

3rd Option

He can't be convinced he has any future at the club is sold and goes on to be the outstanding CB I think he can go onto be at a top club on the continent for years to come while we chop and change CB'S for the next 10 yrs.

Ideally I would not have kept Toure, got his wage off the books and brought Ilori in as 4th this season , with a view to selling Skrtel next summer .

Hopefully whatever happens there is a long term future for the kid as he has everything needed to be top class

28 Jun 2015 13:35:17
I think he's going to be starting next to sakho myself.
Toure and lovren as back ups and skrtle to leave.

28 Jun 2015 13:40:45
He is better than the Championship and I doubt he will want to go out on loan again. His situation has been grossly mismanaged and I would not blame him for looking to move elsewhere. He needs a chance with us and I hope he gets it.

28 Jun 2015 13:50:44
I've heard so much about this kid - but never actually seen him play.
Is he as good as the majority of posters on this site seem to say?
And if so. then why don't we just play him?

28 Jun 2015 14:19:30
Somefella there highlights of him on YouTube in this year's euro u21s, and Jesus he's got pace. I think he'd be perfect for a pressing defensive system similar to what carra and hyypia and skrtel agger where. Ilori closes down and hassles the strikers where sakho covers and watches for any through balls and crosses.

28 Jun 2015 14:24:10
He is. Sadly Brendan Rodgers is a tactical genius and prefers Skittles

28 Jun 2015 15:09:44
Hasn't it already been said that him and can have been promised they will both be given a chance this season.

28 Jun 2015 17:02:20
He's not ready for me yet to go straight in the team regularly every week but in a year's time , after gaining experience of English football , I see no reason why he can't become Sakhos long term partner in a flat back 4.

With Clyne & Moreno either side we could keep that defence for years like Chelsea do giving us the stability needed.

Only concern is his injuries but hopefully like Gerrard he can overcome these.

28 Jun 2015 17:15:56
Somefella - He's deceptively quick, very aware, good with the ball at his feet and can and does carry it forward on the counter.

28 Jun 2015 20:12:14
I can see llori becoming another one who br was desperate to get rid of becoming a first team player who becomes a nailed on starter. ala Hendon. I really for the life of me don't understand how he shuts out some of these young players so quickly. Anyway I hope I'm right. every time I see him play he looks perfect for us. But hey Wat do I know.

29 Jun 2015 00:59:37
BR bought him yet never plays him. Brilliant!

28 Jun 2015 12:11:33
My only concern

Back 4 sorted, players in place all they need is someone working with them, choose the 4 and stick with them Clyne Moreno, enough pace, just work on defensive player and centre backs defend first, getting it down and playing is a bonus, stop taking risks.

Midfield more than enough energy pace and creativity, competition for places should make than play at a high level, for Lucas to go as he has lost a yard of pace. Cam hendo Milner are base with 3 attackeing players
Need a forward.
Optimistic, was a Rogers fan, not sure as he's not learning tactically and he let the season drift after sorting things out in November but most importantly do I want a gaffer who let's his coaches go and doesn't do the honorable thing.
He has to learn that a drew when you're not at it isn't a bad thing, see Chelsea.
Coaching staff. Where are they ?
Playing staff . If we had a forward line delivering 20 goals we'd have been 4th. We have the players.

28 Jun 2015 10:44:48
Hi Eds, after letting the young keeper Ward go to Aberdeen on loan would you expect us to get another keeper or go with just the two?

{Ed002's Note - I am sure even Liverpool are not stupid enough to buy players to replace people sent on loan.}

28 Jun 2015 11:50:20
Want to bet ed?

28 Jun 2015 17:17:30
{Ed002's Note - I am sure even Liverpool are not stupid enough to buy players to replace people sent on loan.}

PMSL. Sarcasm at it's finest.

29 Jun 2015 01:18:43
Why replace a player who wasn't going to play anyway?

28 Jun 2015 09:56:27
Liverpool target Luiz Adriano is available for just £5.5m claims Shakhtar Donetsk boss Mircea Lucescu. (Sunday Express)

28 Jun 2015 09:44:18
Very disappointed to see negativity towards Firmino - he has one bad game. There was so much optimism when we reported that he was signing - let's welcome him and the other new signings and get behind the team.

Also with Gerrard now gone I hope a few people are practicing free kicks - we need a threat from free kicks and don't really have a dead ball specialist.

{Ed002's Note - Cue Hernanes.}

28 Jun 2015 10:28:30
Yes I had noticed your May post about him and his attributes so wondered the same.

Lots and lots of competition for midfield spots if he comes in as you'd have to say that Coutinho, Firmino, Milner and Henderson are going to be v difficult to leave out. That's before you discuss the best position for Can and (two of my favourites) Ibe and Lucas. It's great to have genuine choices and different types of players. (I know I've not even mentioned Allen, Markovic and "youth").

28 Jun 2015 10:14:38
like it Ed, I still think you no more than your sharing on Hernanes mate lol.

28 Jun 2015 10:17:36
Ed, do you know if we have made any enquiries on Hernanes?

{Ed002's Note - Nothing has happened overnight.}

28 Jun 2015 08:59:16
Hey Eds,

Been a good year since I've posted but still keep checking up with latest info you guys get.

There's obviously been loads of speculation for all manner of players as is the norm at this time of year. I see that Clyne is virtually done and that we're still in for a striker would you expect a striker and a defensive midfielder be the last of our business in terms of buying? That's if we even go for defensive mid, personally I'd like to see Can play there. Thoughts? They're always appreciated as always.

{Ed002's Note - I would not want to speculate. It will be a year of transition no doubt.}

28 Jun 2015 10:44:11
If we keep buying half a dozen plus players every pre season it's always going to be transitional . maybe that's BRs thinking so he doesn't have to own up to the fact he hasn't got a scooby.

28 Jun 2015 11:15:25
By the time the season starts, Brendan will have Firmino, Milner, Clyne and possible Benteke and Hernanes to bed into the first team. Ings, Bogdan will hardly see any game time so not too bothered about them. But this whole mess reeks of another transition period and i will kill myself if those words come out of Brendan's mouth.

28 Jun 2015 11:59:55
U forgot Origi too

28 Jun 2015 17:19:47
Indian Buzzer - aspirin, razor, gun or rope?

28 Jun 2015 08:45:03
Eds are we confident City will return with another bid for Sterling?

{Ed002's Note - I have no idea but I suspect that they will.}

28 Jun 2015 08:28:35
These irrallamendi rumours won't go away Ed, strange really seems as we have no interest.

{Ed002's Note - I have no idea what you are talking about.}

28 Jun 2015 06:59:50
Hi Ed

It may be vague but I hope you get the gist.

Just to gain a better knowledge on transfers, is it possible for you to explain the different "Options" of an accepted offer and which one would be the best. And why would that club choose the one over the other?

For example, a selling club has 4 offers for player XXX, which one would be the best offer to accept.

Thanks

{Ed002's Note - Any offer has to be acceptable to both the club and the player, and that is what is most critical in terms of completing a transfer where there are several acceptable offers. So I will try and provide a couple of example scenarios.

Scenario (1) 19 year old "wonderkid" with partial third-party ownership from Brazil - with offers made by an EPL side, a Portuguese side and a Russian side. The offers might all be for the same amount of money - in which case the club will be consider the terms of the transfer and the player will be considering where he wants to go if (a) the EPL side need him to go on loan for two years but are offering him more money and his club payment over 18 months and third party owners cash up front; (b) the Portuguese side are offering him less cultural change, retention of third party ownership but a year or two playing in Portugal with some time in the Europa League; (c) the Russian side, who already have three Brazilians in the squad, will pay good money to the player, cash to his club, cash to the third parties and a contract for the player which makes any future move easy.

It is also not unusual to see player options or partial ownership deals on young players at the same club rolled in to negotiations. There is one EPL side that are part owners of a number of Brazilian youngsters which they have picked up over the years - these can be traded either way during negotiation.

Scenario (2) 25 year old solid international making the first major move of his career since arriving in Italy from South America. Speaks Spanish and Italian with a smattering of English. Culture change is no issue. Offers arrive from Germany, Spain and England, with a second offer from Spain including a player as part of the transfer. So the considerations for the club and player are (a) the English offer is higher than the others financially but spreads payments over a three year period. The offer to the player is better than the Spanish but not as good as the German one. There is a language issue and it remains unknown if he can easily settle, but he is mature and he should be fine – the club propose to employ an old friend of his to help out. (b) The German offer to the club is €5M lower than the English offer but it is a single cash payment. The offer to the player is slightly less but the German side are multi-national and they have been successful in national cup competitions. (c) The first Spanish offer is the lowest cash offer with the money spread over one season – half up front and half at the end. The offer to the player is lower, but language isn’t an issue and the team has consistently got past the group stages in the Champions League. (d) The second Spanish offer is for a small cash some, paid up front but a player the selling club are interested in provided as part of the deal. The offer to the player remains the same. The selling club know that chances of doing a deal for the player they want from Spain will not be so easy if they sell to England or Germany.

Scenario (3) 18 year old English defender playing for a Championship club in the South of England. Four offers from the Premier League, a top four club based in London, a mid table club whose ambition is to stay clear of the relegation zone, a first time ever to the EPL club looking to play good football and establish themselves and a top four club based in the desolate North of England where there is choking smoke from the pits rolling across the snow covered, wind-swept moors – where the “beast” roams free at night. (a) The London-based top four club offers £5M up front with another £5M based on winning the league again within three seasons. They offer a good life-style and regular Champions League games, but will require the player to go on loan for one season and then to be integrated in to the squad with perhaps a few League Cup games in the second season. Wages are not an issue. (b) The mid-table club offer £7M spread over two payments paid within a year. They are reasonably low profile but the player will be paid well and will be part of the match day squad from the start. (c) The new to the EPL side offer £8M paid over a one year period with a £1M bonus if they stay up. The player is straight in to the first team squad on good wages but will lose 50% of them if they drop out of the EPL at any point. (d) The Northern club offer £4M up front but up to £3M in easy to achieve bonuses based on qualifying for the Champions League rather than the Europa League. The player is offered the best salary and is part of the season’s squad but not initially the match day squad.

These are all possible scenarios and the sort things that players and clubs need to consider when negotiating a transfer.}

28 Jun 2015 09:59:38
Ed002, your knowledge on these subjects is awesome, truly amazing. Its a lot more complicated for the average supporter to understand. Thanks for explanation,really gets home the message about the difficulties of signing a new player. Nothing is certain until they sign, clearly.

I hope you are well Ed i havnt posted a lot recently, but i am an avid reader of your comments, and humour. How you get time to respond to articles while your getting your nail varnish done i will never understand.

{Ed002's Note - Thanks Tel - I hope you are keeping well.}

28 Jun 2015 10:08:25
Great post ed. 👍

28 Jun 2015 11:39:03
Yes, very interesting and amusing.
Do you know how Liverpool's Firminio deal was structured ed002 ?
And, if the situation with Greece and ECB goes heads up, what effect that may have on the Euro exchange rate - could be some bargains to be had ?
Are PL players ever paid in Euros by the way ?

{Ed002's Note - I have no interest in getting in to that in any detail J.}

28 Jun 2015 16:56:39
Thanks for your knowledge and time ed002.
I had to read it several times to wrap my head around it.

Your are a true gem.

28 Jun 2015 00:15:41
Hernanes is a good player but you would have to imagine inter would want something like 10-15 mil for him. It seems like a lot of money for a 30 year old, Anyone know if he's still the player he was a couple of years ago? I've seen very little of him.

28 Jun 2015 04:37:18
Why pay 10-15m when for a few extra million we could get kovacic.

{Ed002's Note - Another reason we don't discuss finances.}

28 Jun 2015 00:05:38
I know we don't have the best manager, especially based off of recent viewpoints, but this Brazil game has been so poor. They have the superior players but are getting out fought and in my opinion out coached. least we don't have Dunga

28 Jun 2015 04:52:41
At least Dunga has won things as both a manager and player. Brendans biggest achievement is a golden handshake from Reading.

28 Jun 2015 07:26:48
15 viruses? 15!? Willian was struggling? Heck, Willian was there most exciting player at many stages of the game; bar Coutinho, none of them looked like they could create anything.