Liverpool Banter Archive November 28 2014

28 Nov 2014 20:33:32
Couple of things.
Is it reasonable to assume that if sturidge had of been fit so far he would of scored 5-10 goals? That himself and Mario would have formed a half decent partnership causing an attacking threat?
That this would have taken the pressure of a stuttering defence? Given the midfield something to look up and pass too?
Like all things being negative is easy, blaming someone or three is easy! Get behind the lads because there is no alternative manager wise no quick fix. Believe in what we have because anything else is damaging to the club with no positive coming from it.

{Ed001's Note - by that logic, we would still have Souness in charge.}

Or Roy Hodgson too and even those awful Cowboys gillett and hicks.

Timo, please stop with this 'no quick fix' garbage. Brendan has spent over 200 million GBP and has been in the job for 2 and a half seasons yet you want him to get more time? your another of the LFC fans willing to accept mediocrity and blind faith in a manager who has no idea himself of what he wants from the team. Sturridge coming back will not fix the problems in CDM and the defense. Did we not concede 50 goals last season with the SAS? If those two could not ease the pressure at the back, how do u expect Sturridge to do that on his own? Making up stupid excuses will not solve the club's problems, being decisive and ruthless will.

29 Nov 2014 06:23:30
Lols. That's being said then Sturridge lad might be an excellent DM, CB, RB, and GK.

Come on lads br has got us back into Europe which we will qualify for the latter stages and we nearly won the league. Short termism as brendan puts it. Go back to on fifa manager I'm sure your great

{Ed001's Note - so getting us back into Europe, by spending huge sums of money, is now enough for you? Despite the fact it is clear that we won't be back there next season due to Rodgers. You need to go back to FIFA manager (whatever that is!) if anything! You clearly have no idea just what kind of position us failing to qualify for Europe next season would put us into. It is short termism to keep a failing buffoon embarrassing the club in interview after interview, spending money like it is going out of fashion and yet still managing to make us worse, in charge. By his own admission anything short of the title will be failure this season, yet we will be lucky to make it into the Europa League through league position. Amazing how your only reply consists of insulting people, when you simply have not got any kind of constructive reason to keep Rodgers in charge other than he had a few good months. How is that not short termism to judge a manager on one good half season?? Amazes me how you have the gall to insult others, when that is your only argument. Obviously you thought it was easier to provoke a fight, as you clearly can't win in a discussion with that line of argument.}

And you should get back to wearing your Red-tinted specs, I am sure you are great at it.

You are ignorant if you want to rely on past and not face the problems we have now, incidentally all created by BR.

Wasn't that good half season down to advice from another manager as well about tactics?

Owned!

N BTW, stop taking dumb lessons from BR because based on evidence, he has taught you nothing.

Well eds that was certainly to the point no holes barred. I'll have a crack at a response. I'm behind Rogers for several reasons. First off one bad month isn't enough to crucify someone to this extent. How can he be battered for his transfers when he s not in full control? Will it not take time then for the new lads to get into the Grove?
Is missing 50% of last year's goals in sturidge not really affecting our performances?
Do you want to conviently forget the brilliance of last season? We were the by far the most enviable team in the country and now "it was just a good few months " behave.
Are we not in a strong position to qualify for the last 16 despite being in poor form? H ave we a young manager who like the tm has potential to do something great? Of course things haven't started well but to repeat being negative and not getting behind the manager is pointless because there is no top manager around who will come.I think they are better reasons that let's get rid because we aren't in the top for now!

28 Nov 2014 18:21:31
I did have a previous log in forgot my details, anyway here goes, I read the sight every day and untill today I have been thinking Rodgers out, Now I think, to what end. Give the man a chance, If we grind results out even 1-0 if we can get the defense sorted untill January. If we were to go on a 5 game winning spree everything will change the nature of the job, changing manager every couple of years is not going to solve our problems. Patience fellow Reds! We will Rise!

A lot of wishful thinking there mate. How many 1:0 did we have under BR? You hope for 5 game winning spree? If I am not wrong had we lost to the Bulgarians on Wednesday it was the first time snce the 1950s that we'd lost 5 consecutive games in all competitions. What made you think, watching us this year that we can go and win 5 in a row? Our GK? Our defence? Our midfielders? Us going forward? Nothing wrong with hoping but if it is about making decisions (BR yes or no) it has to have some linkage to reality.

I understand people who think sacking midseason is not ideal. Maybe it is not - espeically if you don't have a strong replacement. And yes things can always get even worse if you change and can somehow miraculsly improve even if we don't make a change. But doing nothing about these consistent poor performances and expecting things will somehow improve of their own (and I am not talking about you here but about BR), is a bit hopeless in my view.

And miracles (or almost miracles) don't happen two years in a row to the same team.

As much as it hurts to say this but Fanobip speaks the truth. For us to believe in turning things around, there has to b something tangible to hold onto and right now, I see nothing that suggests that there will b a better tmrw and results will improve. Until that happens, we will cntinue to falter this year andfrankly, our club will be in more trouble financially and competitively if we miss out on CL next year.

Well said Fanobip. There is no platform for the team to build on, the players are not comfortable with Brendan's system so how can any LFC fan expect things to get better under Brendan? He has had plenty of time to make his mark, but things are back to square one since his appointment. Even if things do improve miraculously, the other clubs vying for a top4 spot all have a head start on us especially Man Utd and Arsenal who both have world class players to grind out results unlike LFC. Our defense is getting worse with each game, so i certainly do not expect that area to improve as long as Brendan is around. We need a new manager and FSG need to act fast. De Boer is available and seems down to earth and was honest with LFC 3 years ago when he claimed he simply was not ready for such a big job. He should be ready now and will not make ridiculous demands to the owners like Brendan did.

29 Nov 2014 06:29:57
Indian

De-boer is a realistic option but hasn't done anything outside a poor league or average league.
This might be another excitement on the cards.
Y not bring In a proven Man and fix the grass route level first?
LFC is still a big bloody brand name in world football.

Passion_Pride_LFC, the reason why De Boer seems the favorable option is he would be willing to work as head coach allowing FSG to appoint an experienced football man as DOF. De Boer would only be involved in the coaching aspects. The style of play and transfers will be taken care of by the DOF.

29 Nov 2014 07:34:12
I might be wrong, but the DOF who is no where near the pitch will be involved in any kind of tactical substitutions?
Or is it the head coach?
I favor an experienced manager involved in everything on the pitch with someone above him only for the transfers and marketing activities.

{Ed001's Note - the coach does the subs.}

28 Nov 2014 17:54:04
Eds fellow reds, just read we've spent £14.3 million on agents fee for 5 players who are shocking .have FSG and the clubs representatives not learnt anything in there time at the club .outrageuios fees imo

Still doesn't beat the 50 million that we shelled out for not having a stadium built. That will take some beating.

28 Nov 2014 16:07:10
Eds do you really think rodgers is going give chances to Ward and Rossiter against Stoke ?

{Ed002's Note - I really have no idea.}

Absolutely next to no chance. If the likes of Lucas, Kolo and Markovic can't get a game, do u really think Brendan will give game time to a bunch of teenagers? The guy has no b***s and no academy player has much of a future at LFC while Brendan is at the club.

Predictions for the line up are that Skrtl, Johnson, Gerrard and Allen will all start and we'll get battered by Stoke.

This is crazy! All this "Brendan isn't good enough" crap. Where was all the negativity last year when he was involved in setting out our team and bombing teams off the park. He didn't become a great manager overnight just as he won't become a bad one overnight.
For the cry babies out there Suarez is gone and Sturridge has been injured but some are forgetting that sterling hendo Coutinho and gerrard are still there and they were a major part in finishing 2nd last season. These same players this season haven't performed even 50% off last seasons form. How is that Rodgers fault.

I'll be the first to admit some buys have been awful but he also improved a lot of players. Gerrard was wrote off by a lot 2 seasons ago and he played a stormer last season. Henderson and sterling have improved under Rodgers.
Our football last season and very rarely this season is incredible to watch. Some have very short memories on here.

Give him the season and let him get on with it instead of all this negativity. For me the players have let him down badly and they should bleed for the shirt

{Ed001's Note - surely it is obvious how it is his fault? It is his job to get them performing or to drop them. How can you suggest it is not his fault? Madness.}

LFCDAMO
Correct, he won't become a bad manager overnight. He was never a good one to fall back to that status.
Suarez, Sturridge & Sterling clicked 'overnight' that was the story of last season.

Seriously? Newsflash, sir: If he is getting the credit for our success then he should be getting the blame for our troubles ESPECIALLY if most of them are strictly down to him and of his own doing. If the players are letting him down then is it not his job to wield the axe on said players or the players should drop themselves? Madness as the Ed just said.

28 Nov 2014 18:04:26
3 years running and still conceding goals up down and center.
Brilliant manager.

I know it's called the banter page but were now getting on to ed001 thinking he is an expert in management and little sheep on this site telling him he'd be a great manager ha ha and you tell me I speak madness! So we sack him mid season and start all over again or put some trust in him to turns things around and at the end of the season if we don't improve then let him go. As he said only a few months back he was manager of the year. Short term memories or unintelligent is what you's are

{Ed001's Note - so all you have is a few insults? Shows the lack of any sensible argument, just a petty little dig from someone with no idea but to suggest sticking with a failing manager and yet you call other people unintelligent? Shows the level of your intelligence that all you have in terms of response is stupidity and insults. By the way, if you would like to point out any time I have claimed to be an expert in management, I would be very happy for you to show me, but I know you won't find it as it would be a lie, being as I have never claimed to be any such thing. Now please don't try and return with more insults and childishness, try instead and come up with a good reason to keep a manager who has only had a few good months. If there is one, other than a laughable award for manager of the year that clearly should have gone to Pulis.}

Resorting to name-calling is not the way to go. Nobody`s an expert on this forum. All we do i'd drop our opinions and analyses on club-related issues and nothing more.

@LFCDAMO

'Gerrard had a stormer last year'.

No he didn't. He was an utter liability defensively - it's only now that Suarez has gone that people are seeing what I maintained all along.

That Gerrard was named in the PFA team of the year simply shows that the people who voted for him in team of the year are as blinkered as you.

The power of the English press hype-machine eh.

Also. Did you really write this?

'Short term memories or unintelligent is what you's are'.

You weren't even being ironic. Says it all really.

lol.

28 Nov 2014 12:02:39
Anyone mentioning signings is deluded we aren't going to turn this around the club needs a new broom unless we get Suarez back and take Sturridge to Lourdes . it's not going to be like it was last season it's quite obvious now the wheels have come off and ted hasn't got a clue what to do I don't hear anybody saying it's going to be turned around just mentioning last season. I only hope fsg don't act in haste and get the flavour of the month as manager . I hope rodgers sees out the season just so in 2 years time people aren't asking for him back from top to bottom this club reeks of inexperience stay away owners who ain't got a clue to Ian Ayre clueless to ted rodgers down to mike marsh Colin pascoe there wasn't many reds who thought we had a bad squad at the start of the season I did say to friends no Sturridge cover and mignolet no pressure on him but management is dreadful lions led by donkeys and the fans are the lions

28 Nov 2014 07:49:53
Ed002 what's your opinion on Rogers changing the style of play again tactics that took us so far last season I heard ed001 but not yours (if I missed it what can I search under please)

{Ed002's Note - Teams need to vary tactics on a game-by-game basis - perhaps that is where he has been going wrong.}

28 Nov 2014 07:49:27
Hi Eds,

You say Gerrard has a lot of power at the club - is this influence over other players or some of the staff?

If he were to be dropped what sort of backlash would be expected, what we supporters would not see?

Thanks for all the work Eds.

Loving Ed002's insight & only wish i knew half as much as them.

Crooky

{Ed001's Note - both. I would suggest you only need to look at what happened at Newcastle when Ruud Gullit decided to take on Shearer head on. The vast majority of the club took Shearer's side. Gullit had no chance of succeeding while engaged in a power battle.}

Ed1, do you think Gerrard would come good when a new manager is brought in? From what you say l expect that he will not have the balls to drop him. How would you play him if it was up to you if you could not drop him either.
Thank you for your reply in advance.

{Ed001's Note - personally I think his legs are gone, the power is no longer there and the pace is fading rapidly. Without those, he is simply half the player he was. Well maybe not gone, but going, would be fairer. I really don't think he will come good, I think he has been great but is a spent force who is not up to the physical requirements of the Prem. He would still be top class in a slower, less physical league, but just not in the English or Scottish ones, which require a lot more physicality than most.

If I had to play him, then I would surround him with more youth, more movement, and ask him to just sit in the middle of the park and direct the game. I have kittens every time he charges back to throw himself into a tackle, I would prefer him never to do that, instead ask the younger players to work on that, so he can concentrate on creating. It is not ideal, it is better suited to a lower end team, but it is the only way to get the best from him, in my opinion.}

28 Nov 2014 08:53:30
Gullit took both Shearer and Ferguson off from a match and got the sack 3 days after the match.

I like Ed001's idea, it would work if Gerrard is to play on. Best placed CM's to play around him for me would be Henderson of course, coupled with Can - who reminds of Gerrard in many ways and is not used enough. We got a class act in Can and he will not want to warm the bench for much longer.

I may get shot down for this but i honestly believe we should sell him, let him go play in italy. i have thought he has been on the slide since 2006. i think also due to his influence within the club all the players feel the need to play through him which affects the perfomance of the team

28 Nov 2014 02:50:44
I think Rodgers Should turn to youth for the next game vs stoke simply because it's a guarantee they will die trying to impress I'd bring in Ward for Mignolet he can't be as bad and hopefully he's can show us he's worth the 1st team. I'd bring in Rossiter for allen I think his tackling and the way he changes defense into attack is what we are missing. And maybe Brannagan off the bench for Lallana or Coutinho I think his through passes are sublime and would feed lambert or borini goals all day. Cheers just my opinion btw

28 Nov 2014 03:56:59
Ward will be a very good option for Migs. Rossiter is a very good defensive midfielder, someone who could replace Lucas.
Allen is a completely different player to Rossiter.

{Ed001's Note - Rossiter is not a defensive midfielder mate, he is far more than that, it would be a waste of his talents to have him holding. Allen is completely different in terms of level, but he does try and fill the same role that would best suit Rossiter.}

28 Nov 2014 05:48:09
Ed01, fair reply mate.
But would you play Rossitter along with Lucas or Allen?
I wouldn't play him alongside Lucas.

{Ed001's Note - I would play him alongside Lucas and Allen I would sell. Lucas provides protection for the back four and would give Rossiter freedom to do what he does. Allen is ok, but is too lightweight to offer protection and doesn't have the range of passing, nor mobility, to shackle Rossiter and allow him freedom. I just don't see the point in keeping Allen, all he is doing is blocking a spot in the squad that a youth player could take. He doesn't fit with us, unfortunately, so there is just no point in hanging on to him in the hope he comes good, as we would need to build our style around his way of playing to get the best from him and the rest of our squad just aren't built for that.}

28 Nov 2014 06:34:51
Ed01. Fair mate. But he was running the show at Swansea.
Nevertheless both Lucas and Allen are completely different players and only one should feature in the middle.
Allen keep the ball well while Lucas breaks up the oppositions play.
Play Lucas in the middle with two offensive midfielders alongside him.
Never going to happen though.

{Ed001's Note - Allen was not running the show back then, Britton was. Allen suited the way they played, but it was a totally different style to the one the rest of our players suit. I am not convinced he would be able to go back there and slot in to the way they play now. There is a reason they have moved forward without him, again not because he is not a good player, but because he is limited. He isn't mobile enough, physical enough nor does he have the range of passing or vision needed to make up for it. He doesn't have the skill on the ball that would mean he could make up for his deficiencies either. If we were a team built for a slow possession game, the one Rodgers has decided to revert to this season, then we wouldn't be struggling the way we are and he would be looking good. Unfortunately it just doesn't suit our team. Not one signing Rodgers has made since Allen has been for that style of play. It is beyond understanding why he can't see that.}

28 Nov 2014 08:55:52
Ed01, brilliant assessment mate

"If we were a team built for a slow possession game, the one Rodgers has decided to revert to this season, then we wouldn't be struggling the way we are and he would be looking good.""

Ed, referring to an extract of your reply, could you please clarify what is meaning of the above? You said if LFC were a team built for slow possession football then Allen would be looking good and LFC wouldn't have been struggling the way they are. Then you go on to say that Rodgers has reverted to the slow possession system and has abandoned the style of play we played last season. If that is the case, then according to your analysis, we shouldn't be struggling at all and Allen should look like a star!

The statements in your above analysis seem to be contrary to each other and hence is confusing. Would be best if you could clarify.

Anyway love what you guys do. Keep it up and thanks!

{Ed001's Note - only if the whole team was suited to the system Rodgers is trying to employ, which they aren't. Gerrard, for instance, spends far too much time hitting longer hopeful passes, which often turn over possession. Skrtel is simply not comfortable enough in possession. Johnson, well I don't think we even need to go there as I could be here all weekend listing his weaknesses! Mignolet is the first player I have ever seen to look like both feet are his wrong foot, I have never seen anyone, even my mate when he had broken his ankle and not realised it, look so disastrously bad at passing the ball. Sterling is currently trying to do too much, when the easy pass is the option needed in this system. Coutinho the same. So Allen is left in the middle of the pitch with ten other players, none of whom are on the same wavelength, so he is floundering. If Rodgers had kept Agger, then we would have another player suited to the system. Kelly is another who is very suited to it, he is very comfortable in possession, but again, for some reason Rodgers in his infinite wisdom decided he didn't want him.}

Spot on Ed, exactly my thoughts on Allen. However, would you agree that he should be a regular starter with Lucas until January when we can and should be looking to bring in better players to improve our midfield.

I think at the moment he and Lucas are the best of the bunch, even though they are far from good enough.

P.S. Don't let EMS find out what you think about Allen haha! ;)

Red Rum

{Ed001's Note - no, Can and Rossiter should be ahead of him for me, even Lallana too. Allen is just not right for us, though at least he tries, you can never complain about his attitude or application. I just think he deserves better than to be a bit part player in a team that works to his weaknesses rather than plays to his strengths.}

I agree totally with you on Allen ed001, i always thought Britton was Swansea engine.
Allen is a good player but is too lightweight and under pressure he plays the safe passes.
I would play lucas(holding) henderson(right) coutinho(left) in midfield.
Gerrard would play number 10 like a false striker.
Gerrard should be doing what opposition teams have been doning to him lately.
Gerrard should get in the way of there holding midfielder, once we have the ball he will come on the ball futher up the pitch.
Gerrard still sees the pass and still has a shot in him.
Malta

28 Nov 2014 10:54:12
Now I am worried a bit. Pretty sure BR ll realize it's all about Britton. A bid looming in jan. Lols.

Coming to your point Ed01. What's your take on the slump of lallana?
Played exactly where he was at Southampton?
Another one season wonder?

As much as I agree with many here on the poor tactics and style from BR. He had no help from his players either.

All the goals came through the legs of lovern makes him the worst defender on the planet?

{Ed001's Note - Rodgers tactics and coaching plus too many new players not knowing each other's game is the problem with Lovren and Lallana. Managed correctly they should be fine. Lallana in particular is far from a one season wonder. I fail to see why he is not starting more, though I also fail to understand why it was thought we needed him in the first place, much as I like him as a player.}

Thanks for clearing the confusion Ed. Much appreciated.

Now i am totally convinced that you should become the manager of our great club. You have far more footballing knowledge and tactical nous than Brendan "I am too stubborn to accept my mistakes" Rodgers!

I hope FSG finds you mate!

{Ed001's Note - they would need to put me through the coaching badges to do that, and I would prefer not to do them, as I have seen how hopeless the courses are! But then the English FA uses courses set up by people who were never really coaches in the first place, setting out how to be a coach. It is insanity. Ferguson was a great manager, but he was great because he delegated the coaching to his coaches, while he oversaw it. So letting him and Redknapp set up the coaching courses is madness. I mean Redknapp's idea of good 'coaching' is to tell his players to go out and play their natural game. There is no skill or art to what he has done on the coaching side. Unfortunately the European game has now decided that you have to have qualifications to be a coach, rather than just being good at coaching. Like any skill, some people are going to be rubbish at it no matter how many courses they attend, while others are just naturals. The game should allow for naturally skilled coaches to be involved as well as helping those who need the courses to become involved.}

Ed 001. I did my level 1 and 2 coaching a few years back. I've been lucky enough in the past to watch training at a professional level whilst at university.

I have spoken with some scouts(middlesborough) and high(ish) level coaches (guppy and walford), and they say If I want to become a coach. I should look into going to Germany or spain as it's cheaper and better quality.

what's you're opinion or have you heard about the foreign coaching abroad? I've coached some under 14's etc, but moved away from it to concentrate on coaching AFL. Any input you have would be great.

{Ed001's Note - I would agree with them, better to go abroad by a long way. Germany I would suggest is the best place right now, though Spain is good too. German football is closer to the English style though, so it would be easier to get work in English football afterwards.}

Ill look into that then ed thanks for the reply! :)