Liverpool Banter Archive January 02 2017

02 Jan 2017 22:47:15
Happy New Year to all Ed`s and Reds alike and best wishes!

The Sunderland game was a roller-coaster and indeed, was not the result we all wanted and there are positives to take away from the game and I would like to focus on one thing for a second.

First off, I`m never one to comment on referees and their decisions cos their jobs are hard and having played the game at a decent level, I excuse a lot of dumb stuff that they get wrong. However, not today

Can I just say how Anthony Taylor and his assistants were a right shambles in that game? Having played a very intense and energy-sapping game vs City and with only 44 hours to prepare (or lack thereof), I think our boys played outstanding football vs a team (tho, in the same situation BUT had the home crowd to push them all game) that set up to frustrate us. We created a hat load of chances, 15 shots on target, dominated possession, gave up only 3 shots on target (all which Migs comfortably saved) and should definitely have won. Not saying Taylor was the reason we drew BUT he definitely contribute his own two pence.

On the first goal, Wiji and Klavan hesitate and Ndong gets the ball. He then, dives into the gap btw both players, drawing the contact from Klavan by diving into his leg (as if contact is no longer allowed in the box anymore) and Taylor gets mugged and blows for a penalty.

Then on the near goal by Defoe and then Borini. Ndong is offside by two yards on the through ball and yet goes for the ball. The flag should be raised right there as he`s interfering with play but it does not. Defoe tells him to stop running and takes over and were it not of for the quick thinking of Migs, we`re 2-1 down right there due to two ref howlers.

On can`s penalty, Taylor can`t give it cos a) he wasn`t sure or b) he is trying to do a make up call cos he prolly knew he messed up on the first penalty warded.

Then the worst, the second equalizer. He gives a FK for the "foul" on Defoe where as there was NO foul. Defoe turns away from Lucas` challenge, then turns into Can who then steps in front and takes over possession. Defoe dives and then complains and the free kick is awarded and you know the rest. Taylor gets mugged again and so do we. Whereas a few minutes before that, Studge gets destroyed from behind and the ref and assistant don`t do a thing? See what I mean.

My point is that PL games are already extremely difficult to win especially under the circumstances we were under BUT when the ref starts meddling into things in favor of one team (just like the hapless Mike Dean did in the WH-Utd game) the job becomes three times more difficult and I can`t blame Klopp for being severely irritated in the post match presser cos he prolly didn`t want to slate the ref in public as that`s not his style. Now were that to be Mou or Pep or even Moyes, he (especially Mou) would have called out the ref by name and given him a right verbal thrashing. Let me know what your thoughts are, guys.

03 Jan 2017 00:50:02
I see what you're getting at Hamilton but too often on here the focus seems to be on what happened leading up to a pivitol incident rather than the incident itself. A number of times Migs and Karius have let in easy goals and then been absolved of blame because their defenders allowed a shot at the keeper. Sometimes the blame can be shared around but with Sunderlands second goal it was quite simply Manes fault. The free kick was debatable (although i think the ref was correct) but Migs looked like he had it covered anyway. What was Mane doing? It was half a meter from his body so he wasnt protecting himself.
I agree the ref had a pretty average game but i disagree that he was tesponsible for the end result.

03 Jan 2017 00:55:36
I'm sorry but don't really agree with this view - the first was a clear penalty and so was the second. Even the free kick given was at least a 50/ 50 foul by Lucas. Can handball was 50/ 50 and we were lucky it went our way.

The real problem was we were sloppy in possession and not as sharp as we should have been playing the ball from the back, and we missed the zip through midfield we normally have. We also missed the mobility Hendo normally provides ahead of the defense with most of the poorer tackles coming in because we were a yard off the pace and defenders isolated 1-1. Late tackles and fouls like those are symptomatic of the opposition being a yard ahead and having too much time and space on the ball themselves.

I also noted the forwards also struggled to link up (as they did vs. City, with players often looking a bit isolated and then giving away possession with a loose pass or poor first touch (particularly Firmino) .

It's easy to say in hindsight but we missed Hendo badly and the setup wasn't quite right given the tired legs. We needed at least Stewart at base of midfield and we should have played Origi upfront and given Firmino or even Mane a rest IMO.

03 Jan 2017 01:03:35
Also, can't see how the ref could give anything but a pen for Klavan sticking out a leg.

03 Jan 2017 01:59:25
I respect your opinions. Just to clarify. I never said that the ref`s decisions cost us the game as that is too easy a conclusion to make. Also, I never absorbed Mane of any blame for the penalty as that was a stupid thing to do.

What I was saying was that under the circumstances, we played quite well, created chances, showed more than decent movement (more than I thought we would) and could easily have scored three goals. Anyone who was thinking that there would be no drop off in energy levels, link up play and overall output after a tough energy-sapping game vs City with 44 hours of preparation (or lackthereof), must have been been deluding themselves. I totally expected it so of course, there would be some sloppiness, ragged defending, patches of disjointed play and passes going astray.

What I did not expect is that a ref would make as many howlers as I saw, all in one game. I can understand he didn`t see something or got no help from his assistant on one incident. What I can`t accept is an accumulation of howlers cos at that point, the players and manager start getting frustrated hence, the reaction we got from Klopp in his post game comments. The FK that led to the penalty incident, was a shambles and even ex players on TV, said so cos last I checked football is a contact sport so no FK, no pen if you follow logic. Also, Ndong literally launched himself into the gap btw Klavan and Wiji so of course, there will be contact and again, footie is a contact sport and Neil McCan on commentary said the same thing.

My point is that tho, we missed Hendo and Can was average in that position and there was an expected performance drop-off from Sat, we still did more than enough to win the game under the very difficult circumstances and cos we didn`t win, should not change that fact.

03 Jan 2017 02:28:56
I see your points but reality is I don't think we played well and our touch has been slipping even before today. If we weren't prepared to make any real changes to the side which hasn't exactly been playing as slickly as we're capable of, against a bottom team in a mess, and after just 48hrs against a sapping game vs. city then we either have an extremely poor bench or Klopp missed a trick.

Easy in hindsight but I think we should have played Stewart (or Lucas) to rest Can, and played Origi and Sturridge as a pair upfront in place of Firmino.

03 Jan 2017 02:29:57
Guys,

Please stop justifying our short comings. Same thing happened in the chat page.

Fact is the players were not 100% sharp having played man city game and hendos absence was felt a lot.

Can was very nervous and it spilled over to others.

Though Klavan was at fault for the first penality, it was Wijnaldum who gave the opp player a free run forcing Klavan to make that clumsy work.

We were very lucky to not have gone 2-1 down when referee ignored a clear hand ball from Can.

Klopp also could have shown the same grace that he does during interviews where he is so honest instead was clapping sarcastically when Sturridge was sitting and Sunderland did not stop play. Would we do that if we were chasing the game?

Though Sturridge is a top top striker he his not helping himself with his attitude.

We were 2nd best with so many misplaced stuff and Klopp rightly took Wijnaldum out.

It is not getting the points against smaller teams that will end up costing us.

03 Jan 2017 06:07:49
lol Hamilton so all blame goes to the referees now. You are one of a kind mate.

03 Jan 2017 10:24:00
Whilst we lost the game because of our own stupid decisions in the box I do agree with this view as a whole. Yesterday I had the luxury of watching 3 games (Boro-Leicester, ours and United-WH) . All three games were littered with horrendous decision making by refs - mostly focusing on the decisions not made (and I think Hamilton gave some good examples from our games with the offside that wasn't given and the demolition job on Sturridge, but the United second goal was the biggest one) or the consistency of punishments (including reds for very little and yellows for criminal offenses) . I have been told that the issue was even greater in lower leagues and that in League 2, two games saw the ref 'subbed' at half time for injuries.

It was concerningly poor yesterday and to me it does bring about to me another question of the controversial Christmas schedule - it's all well and good to discuss whether the players are fit enough for them, but can the refs keep up?

03 Jan 2017 12:24:06
Mostly agree, some dodgy refereeing yesterday. But the real robbery is when Sturridge is kicked to pieces. Sad to see a professional ref miss that one.

03 Jan 2017 15:24:41
THank you Hijkle, and Andy for at least giving thought ful responses to this thread. Zimbo, I agree to disagree with you on the performance issue and that is fine. As for hindsight, if you don`t believe it matters so why mention it? It doesn`t matter what Klopp did per his selection cos provided we didn`t win, people (in hindsight) would criticize and try to rewrite history. Why? Cos it doesn`t matter and had we won, would Klopp had still missed a trick or would the bench had been stronger? Notice I never did any of that hindsight stuff for these basic reason.

Harry, it seems you have not read any of my initial comments I posted. I propose you read the first two paragraphs of each comment regarding how ref decisions as not being THE main factor we didn`t win and then get back to me. And you are right, I am one of a kind.

02 Jan 2017 14:16:29
Hi All

Hopefully another good performance today and more importantly 3 points.

Whats the best site to watch the game online today?

Cheers 🍻

YNWA.

02 Jan 2017 14:50:46
Found one called fromhots
Been using that one for a while now it's the best I have ever managed to find online.

02 Jan 2017 14:55:10
There are few high quality (in terms of visual) websites that do not have connectivity issues. I'd personally recommend Zorrostream (formerly Batman stream and before that something else I forgot) - has a bunch of links and is generally as stable as your internet connection. If you only got a poor internet connection though (like less than 20mb) then it might not be so good. Alternatively cricfree is good and pretty reliable too though again not great in terms of quality.

02 Jan 2017 15:58:32
Modro class picture as well.

02 Jan 2017 20:14:23
there are a couple out there.
myp2p
firstrowsports
livefootballol (this requires software like Acestream and Sopcast)

Shame about the result today.

02 Jan 2017 13:37:38
Any team news on Henderson?

{Ed002's Note - I think it will be unlikely that Liverpool would take a risk with him today. I damn it, but they haven't purchased a player to replace him yet.}

02 Jan 2017 13:54:57
Just what the hell are these bloody american owners doing ed2, despicable we haven't bought someone yet.

02 Jan 2017 14:10:16
Just seen the lineups. Hendersons not included.

Thanks for the input Ed, I think.

02 Jan 2017 14:51:40
Out for arround 10 days.

02 Jan 2017 21:53:49
We missed him today as well . but quite a few players looked very heavy legged. maybe the rest will be good for hendo ready for Southampton! And if not definitely for the 15th!

02 Jan 2017 12:55:30
Ed 02 you stated the club is in a lot of debt yet the owners say this is not the case. How much debt are we in?

{Ed002's Note - How much doesn't matter. I have no idea why the owners have said that - perhaps they need to look at the accounts and do their sums over the stadium?}

02 Jan 2017 17:01:04
Ed, surely there's something out there that proves Liverpool is in big debt? This is why people are confused, because literally everyone else with a voice in the media is saying otherwise.

{Ed002's Note - The accounts last year show a big debt and the owners also writing off a very large debt to get it off the books - since then they have made another payment for the stadium - but you keep trust everyone one in the media if they are saying that is not the case.

So what are the media saying then?}

02 Jan 2017 17:23:34
The media are saying that they're not in big debt, as the owners are. This is why it's so confusing.

{Ed002's Note - Keep saying the same thing doesn't help Nick. Who in the media is saying what? Who within the owners doesn't understand the accounts, doesn't understand the £60 odd million write off in the last set of accounts nor payments made for the stadium work and what are they saying about it?}

02 Jan 2017 17:25:45
Maybe that's why the media say otherwise, because the owners wrote off a debt Liverpool owed them.

{Ed002's Note - They did - but they get it back when they sell the club - all they have done is offset debt against their investment (devaluing it) - so who in the media is saying what about the debt the accounts show and the further payments for the stadium? You seem to be (again) struggling with simple finances Nick.}

02 Jan 2017 17:35:57
It's more the fact that the media *don't* say anything about any large debt associated with Liverpool, despite the fact they used to a few years ago, that's why it's hard to find someone in the media. To be fair to you I should have worded it better.

I'm not that bad with finances, I just wasn't aware they only temporarily wrote it off. But anyone on this website is going to look like a financial pleb compared to your knowledge, so go easy.

{Ed002's Note - Ok Nick - I think we should let this go - the new argument that the media are saying nothing about Liverpool's debt means that there isn't one doesn't hold too much water. The Debate Society of Berkeley would struggle to persuade me of that being true.

On a brighter note, there was nothing in the press today about Reus joing Liverpool this month - makes you think?}

02 Jan 2017 11:09:31
Hi Eds, first time posting love the work your doing! Quick question,
Joe hart? Is it true he wants a move to Liverpool after he been telling his friends he jump to the chance to go? . Do you reckon we will make a loan move or put a official bid in if we are interested?
Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - I am sure that Joe hart would welcome a move to any leading English side. I am not aware of any interest from Liverpool and he certainly won't be moving to Liverpool in January, nor on loan at any point.}

02 Jan 2017 10:18:22
Ed can I ask, do we really need to buy anyone in January?

I mean this squad of players are performing outstandingly this season only had small blips, and yet to really intergrate our better younger players into the team, Gomez, Ojo, Chirivella, woodburn, grujic, juanma and Wilson are yet to really be given more game time and we have been without couts and matip for a few games also.

If anything we should be looking to find clubs for players who are not going to have a future here, like sakho and illori.

cheers.

{Ed002's Note - The general guidance is if you have a successful mix (as Liverpool do) then don't screw with it unless someone is avaiable at a reasonable price who can make an improvement.}

02 Jan 2017 10:38:54
I agree, we need ttp focus on outs more then ins. We have a quality team with great youngsters at the ready to step things up. Imo we don't need anybody in this window. Biggest thing I can hope for is to see Sakho out the door.

02 Jan 2017 11:07:53
The team is never the finished article, it can always be improved. But that doesn't mean we buy for the sake of it. I think we're in for a quiet window but the summer will be interesting again.

02 Jan 2017 11:59:59
Its Correct not to buy anyone just because the window is open for the sake of it.
But we are in the enviable position where if there is a player available who the manager thinks can improve the squad available, then we can go for it.
Klopp seems to be the real deal and not willing to buy for buying sake.

02 Jan 2017 10:31:03
thanks ed, yeah I feel we need very little over the next couple of windows. Maybe a long term partner for matip in the summer, and gk and lb perhaps need to be closely watched, karius has to find his form or ward to really develop, and juanma and Moreno will need to have decisions made on them, but that's about it really.

thanks again ed.

02 Jan 2017 13:31:37
Can anyone remember the last window when we didn't get anyone in?

02 Jan 2017 09:49:06
Happy new year everyone! I would like to hear opinions on Matip and Coutinho, when fit do they walk straight back into the team?

02 Jan 2017 10:01:46
I think coutinho probably starts on the bench in his first game back. It's a bit different for a CB you don't want to mess with a pairing during a game, for me he will come straight into the 11 but klavan has played well to be fair to him.

02 Jan 2017 10:17:34
Tough one, depends on opponents.
If Matip is fit for ManUtd, I'd prefer him to be facing Zlatan and Martial than most others.
I'd start Coutinho straight away, then take him off when we're 3 up or after an hour.

02 Jan 2017 10:22:00
For me Coutinho should be eased back to full fitness from the bench but has to start once match fit. Matip should be made to wait for his chance. an injury or loss of form as lovren and klavan have been excellent.

02 Jan 2017 10:40:47
I agree with ron. Coutinho on, save matip.

02 Jan 2017 10:53:35
It'll be a lot easier for coutinho I suppose because he'll take mane's place when he's gone, klavan has done really well since coming in so it's a tough one, lol 3.0 up Ron I like it haha.

02 Jan 2017 12:20:13
Klavan Matip anyone, don't know their preferred sides, but think Klavan has done really well, calm and confident.

02 Jan 2017 12:53:04
Lovren is still not good enough. If it could work, I;d prefer Klavan and Matip at the moment. Lovren does not fill me with confidence.

02 Jan 2017 06:06:09
{Ed's Note - We have posted a new article entitled, Premier League Preview

02 Jan 2017 07:28:02
summed up perfectly thanks ed001.

{Ed001's Note - cheers.}

02 Jan 2017 07:30:11
Thank you ed1.

{Ed001's Note - very welcome.}

02 Jan 2017 07:30:11
Thank you ed1.

{Ed001's Note - very welcome.}

02 Jan 2017 08:12:40
Good one Ed01. 😎.

{Ed001's Note - you don't know what you have done to me with these Harry!}

02 Jan 2017 09:09:21
Ha ha. I have improved you by 100% 😄. You have become like Henderson. I have more plans for you coming up 😄. This is just the beginning. You deserves a lot more ha ha.

{Ed001's Note - oh god, now I am really scared!}

02 Jan 2017 10:23:58
He might even run round naked again for you ed! Lol.

{Ed001's Note - please no!}

02 Jan 2017 11:54:18
Wow ed1, that's an excellent summing up, have you never considered doing it for a news organisation. Doh what am i thinking, how would you manage this site if you did that, and what would we do without you. 😉.

{Ed001's Note - hahaha you would probably be all a better off without me! Except Harry, who can't live without me....}

01 Jan 2017 23:34:52
A steward outside the ground yesterday told me that the players used to walk in front of the fans after getting off the team bus, rather than the bus driving straight through the entrance, she told me Gerrard made it like that. Why? couldn't believe he would be so ignorant. Could Ed001 confirm this or back it up based on Gerrard as a person?

{Ed001's Note - it is possible, as he didn't like having to spend hours signing autographs etc. He always had minders with him briefed to pull him away after a few minutes so he could pretend it wasn't his choice. However, I do not know anything of him doing that with the team bus and it is more likely to be a security thing I would think.}