Liverpool Banter Archive November 30 2014

30 Nov 2014 22:53:58
I think liverpool will still suffer unfortunately because we don't have mobile forwards who can take on a player and be busy up there and have pace
As u can see for city aguero does a lot upfront which has a huge impact to the team
We don't have pace or trickery upfront
Except for sterling so until that is addressed
I can't see anything else except a lot of indifferent games from now until Sturridge or a forward is bought who has those attributes because I think it's vital to the way liverpool play
I honestly think liverpool seem shackled because of a lack of pace upfront or that run in behind the defence

You are right to a point however, we seem shackled mostly due to a manager who employs a slow possession system that does not fit the players we have (Sterling, Studge, Coutinho, hendo, Lallana and Can) who on the contrary, are suited for the high press, up-tempo system.

30 Nov 2014 20:18:32
After reading on transfer rumor sites that we are linked with certain top players, then clubs like City, Chelsea, United etc. come in and offer bigger wages and a better fees for the said top players, do the eds think it will ever be a level playing field? will it ever be fair? these clubs buy the best and we can't compete, well not only us of course, will the powers that be change the rules? or is their too much money involved?

{Ed001's Note - it will never change, they don't want a level playing field.}

30 Nov 2014 21:11:28
Jack

Not always, in fact we got 90% our transfer targets.
None would pay 27 mill for Lallana. 20 mill for Markovic.
So it's not always the money. The fact remains we overpaid for every player.

30 Nov 2014 21:34:42
The fact remains we overpaid for every player.

=====================
Not every player, Sturridge , Coutinho were very good value

And have been doing that for the past 3 yrs. Pathetic!

A level playing field is nearly impossible to do at this point. The gulf between the likes of Burnley and Manchester United is ridiculously big and I don't see it as likely that even Liverpool would be happy to see it leveled considering we're in the top 25%. It always struck me as rather strange that American sporting leagues are far more socialist/level than the EPL, though.

Surely Liverpool do the same? don't they pay more than most teams in the PL? Sour grapes if you ask me. We are hardly the shinning beacon.

Actually as much as the USA franchises, nba mlb and nfl tries to even the playing field, the teams are still pretty mismatched.

NBAThe celtics and lakers are still so far ahead, and always up there.

MLB your yankees giants and cardinals are still there almost every year.

in the NFL the so called big 5 have appeared in about 75% of finals winning just under half.

I think this is true of almost every team sport. whereby There's a certain times of change, and If you aren't there to take advantage of that, you fall behind the pack, in getting players, finance etc.

Financially, they are a bit that way, but drafts and playoffs are a big leveler. In the NBA, NFL, etc. everyone has a shot, even if for some it's a bit less than others, at being champions, whereas over the course of 38 games a newly promoted club has pretty much effectively 0 chance of ever winning the PL.

For one who lives in the States and follows American Sports (NFL, for sure), I can tell you that firstly, MLB doesn`t have a salary cap hence, the Ynkees, Red Sox and maybe the Cardinals always make it deep in the playoffs. Also, the teams might have a level playing field on paper BUT in reality, that is not really the case because in the NFL for example, a perrenial successfulf franchise like the New England Patriots are one of the most expensive franchises in sports and the levellers (the draft and salary cap) do not apply to them because they don`t really use the draft (cos they trade their picks to other teams to get better players thru free agency) and hence, their salary cap is not affected with such dealings.

01 Dec 2014 03:11:58
Roy

Y do we go behind Countinho so much. How many goals has he scored till now? 10 goals in 3 years?
He is not going to give us a Mammooth profit.

I know Coutinho isn't world class yet and see your point, but its more like 12 goals in just under two years. That's a pretty rough figure but it's more accurate than the claim that a man who signed for us in January 2013 has been here for 3 years!

01 Dec 2014 09:09:07
Passion/Harry (I think)

Coutinho has been here for 22 months and a week (rough figure)
He was signed in late January 2013

Harry doesn't stay hidden for long does he

30 Nov 2014 20:02:02
Hi eds, with Dortmund now bottom of the bundesliga and rumours that klopp is considering resigning, do you think there's any possibility that if he left Dortmund fsg would pounce and sack Rodgers regardless of the next few results? Personally I feel we should stick with Rodgers but I'd wet my knickers with klopp and the players he could bring with him, reus? Haha we can only dream

{Ed001's Note - if Klopp became available there would be a stampede of clubs looking to make him their new manager. I would be very surprised if we didn't try to get him.}

30 Nov 2014 21:13:58
Ed01, spot on mate. Klopp would want a new challenge and certainly not a ready made team.
Liverpool and klopp compliment each other.

30 Nov 2014 21:37:47
I would be very surprised if we didn't try to get him.}

========================

It will depend if we will be looking for a new manager at the time his is available .I think he is Arsenal bound

Nobody knows if he would want or not want a ready made team. Maybe he is sick of the rebuilding process he`s been doing for BVB over the yrs that he now wants a true crack at the CL (which he almost won in 2013) and would maybe want a ready-made team as you say. Bottom line is nobody knows what he wants and if he did want a challenge, I would be very surprised if he picked us (don`t believe too much in the "he`s an LFC fan stuff because all coaches wanna win first and foremost) because there will be more capable suitors to choose from than us. However, I`ll love to have him and like Ed, would be surprised if didn`t at least go after him.

Klopp - another flavour of the month with no playing pedigree. Not for me.

No playing pedigree? what's that got to do with it?

01 Dec 2014 01:04:55
Klopp has Dortmund at the bottom of the league is he any better than Brendan imo no way.there is strange decisions going on at r club I'm only hearing rumours but ballotelli is rumoured to not be brendans choice and the reason Remy failed his medical was not the dodgy knee if you all get my drift.if there is any change maybe it's this committee needs changed we have had enough internal arguments holding us back over the years.

Does Mou have playing pedigree? Stupid post!

No news there, Tommy! BR pretty much said Balo was not his choice in the media like the amateur that he is at the microphone and as for Remy, it is common knowledge that he has a heart prob and has been diagnosed as such when he almost failed his medical at Marseilles in `10. Nobody knows why he failed his medical BUT his heart prob is real.

{Ed002's Note - I have explained that two players were not his choice this summer, but I would think he could have blocked the moves if he had wanted to.}

Ed001,
I do not agree with you ob Klopp.
Why do people think Klopp will be better than Brendan?
Klopp lost gotze and lewandowski and lost his winning ways.
We lost Suarez and have Sturridge injured and dropped behind.
If Sturridge had been fit we would have 9/10 points more.
Players make the difference at the end of the day, last season we had stars upfront and that the only reason we came close.
Remove ronaldo from madrid or messi from barca and they will feel it.
We lost 60 goals + the fear factor gave to other teams.
Klopp won't change that only a world class srtiker will.
Malta.

{Ed001's Note - wow you really have no idea do you? Klopp has lost a huge list of star players, mostly to Bayern, yet he has made them competitive for years. The fans absolutely adore him and are still chanting his name at every game and begging him to stay. It is not about two players, and it is complete ignorance to suggest so. Yet Rodgers has won nothing, Klopp has won 2 league titles, one cup and a couple of German super cups plus got them to the Champions League final. This despite Dortmund losing their star players year in year out. Despite Bayern being able to outspend every other club in the Bundesliga by a significant margin. Bayern are as far clear of the rest of the Bundesliga as Celtic are currently in Scotland, so any trophy is a huge achievement when you aren't with Bayern.}

I don't get it, though, Ed001, Dortmund has an excellent squad still, and they've shown that they can still get things done in Europe. I mean, the likes of Gundogan, Hummels, Mkhitaryan, Aubameyang, Reus, Sven Bender are all available for selection, aren't they? That team can't be anywhere near bad enough to be at the foot of the table, however many of their players have been poached by Bayern

{Ed001's Note - it becomes an attitude problem, players lose their appetite and desire when they see the club selling its best players and lacking ambition. It was always a matter of time before it happened, especially as they have players there, such as Reus, who are just busy trying to get away to their next club.}

Vlt, BVB for the last 5 seasons have been more than just Lewandowski and Goetze. They lost Sahin 4 seasons ago, and the likes of Barrios, Kagawa, Goetze, Lewandowski who were all at some point BVB's best players so clearly Klopp has shown he can rise above adversity even with losing his best players on a regular basis and that too without spending big money on replacements. Klopp has also had to make do without the likes of Subotic, Bender, Gundogan, Kuba, Piszcek who are all top quality first team players for lengthy injury periods. Yes, they may be having a bad season but just look at how many of his players including Reus are suffering constant injuries through bad luck. Brendan on the other hand spent over 200 million GBP in 2 seasons and still has not replaced Suarez or found a decent replacement for Gerrard. Unlike Brendan, Klopp built BVB from a bottom half of the table team to Bundesliga and UCL challengers with next to no investment apart from money from player sales. U really cannot say the same about clueless Brendan.

01 Dec 2014 09:10:39
Im assuming those two players were Markovic and Balotelli Ed002? Could have just brought Remy for half the price and given Ibe a chance. The club would have been richer by around 25m GBP and actually paid off some debt.

{Ed002's Note - Right.}

30 Nov 2014 15:28:11
Any interest in redmond

30 Nov 2014 16:30:13
Wouldn't have been a bad buy in the summer. ya know an actual wide player

He is no where near as good as Ibe. Waste of money if we do.

And we do what w/ Ibe, Texeira, Markovic and the other academy youngsters while this unecessary transferis happening?

30 Nov 2014 15:17:00
Waro I'm disappointed to see you call me the king of the Stevie haters.

I love Stevie. So much so that I still have signed pictures of him on my walls, shirts with his name on them that haven't fit me for years, an episode of A League of Their Own from years ago saved to my sky box just because he was on it.

I grew up well and truly in the Stevie era. He is my absolute hero. It is because of my love for him that I don't want him playing holding midfield. My 8 year old cousin only knows Steven Gerrard as that slow holding midfielder who constantly gets beaten by his man, can only score penalties, and slipped over to cost us the title.

Rodgers' reluctance to drop Gerrard and use him as an attacking impact sub is completely ruining my memories of him and making the younger generation think he is nothing but an average player. That actually deeply saddens me because of how much I love the man.

He could still be our Frank Lampard. Coming on off the bench to play behind the striker and score winning goals for us. But a defensive midfielder? He never has been, isn't, and never will be a top player there. It is only damaging his reputation as the most formidable attacking midfielder in football history for me.

The Gerrard that used to drag us over the finish line is now being made to look like the one holding us back. Even if Rodgers turns this season around (which I hope but doubt he will) I will never forgive him for what he has done.

Captain fantastic will now retire with the nickname "Slippy G" because Rodgers didn't have the bottle to do what he should've done.

So please, don't call me a Gerrard hater. I'm far from it. He is literally my childhood hero with me being just 20 years old. However, I refuse to let what he has done for us in the past blinker what he is failing to do for us now. There is no room for sentiment in modern football. I don't want Gerrard sold or dropped completely. I will stand by what I've been saying for the last 18 months though; let him be captain fantastic for half an hour behind the striker. Not "Slippy G" for 90 minutes in front of our defence.

East Mids, I would have disagreed with you at the start of the season because I thought that Stevie's talent would mean he could play anywhere on the pitch. What has become obvious is that even with his determination and skills, he's simply not as good as Lucas in the holding role. What he is still brilliant at is playing just behind the striker(s), where he has played his best games for us. Rogers should just accept that is how he should play Stevie, and I agree, play him as Lampard is used at Citeh. We had another good example of that just now when he scored again. Get Stevie contracted for at least another season and use him to his strengths. Of course, that's only one piece of the puzzle, getting in a competent and effective defensive coach and using a player who can organise on the pitch is equally imperative.

Spot on ND.

He was actually he most productive playing on the right actually under Benitez and score more goals.

30 Nov 2014 17:18:46
Redwin.

He played behind Torres under Benitez and just above two world best player on heir position
Mascherano and Alonso.

Well said EMS. Gerrard has been made to like like a muppet at CDM. He is no doubt one of the best CAMs around, and the best during his golden years. Unfortunately the CDM position requires the player to have a very good positional sense which Gerrard lacks. His lack of anticipation and reading of the game coupled with his aging legs not to forget starting nearly every game has made him look bad. Brendan should take a leaf out of Pellegrini's book and watch how well the Chilean handles Lampard. Gerrard would have a bigger impact coming on after 60 mins and supporting the striker than playing CDM where he is no good.

30 Nov 2014 17:59:46
Indian

How could you start a match with a player whom you aware of lasting only 50mts every match?
All this tweak just to accommodate a player?
Would you play him above Countinho, lallana, Sterling as a CAM?
If not, He like every other player need to be dropped.

Harry
You mention Coutinho, Sterling and Lallana as if they have been outstanding this season. They alsohave been stuck in a rut. No different from Gerrard in my opinion.

Spot on EMS

NO, Was defiantly off the right he had his best season, do some research because it's fact

Awesome job, EMS! Like you, SG gave me some of my best yrs as a Liverpool fan and he will always be one of if not, the best player I have ever seen play in a red shirt (and I saw KK play so I would know). However, he`s a square peg in a round hole at DM because he is incapable of playing that position, period. thos are the facts and that doesn`t mean we hate him BUT just means we are facing the hard reality which some on here simply CANNOT take. He is fading and in 18 months or so, will no longer be here and I have moved on knowing that and many on here need to move on as well because a young, spriteful SG ain`t coming thru the dressing room door anytime soon.

30 Nov 2014 13:15:28
Im sure there is at least one Liverpool poster who could find out how much ground Gerrard covers compared to other Liverpool midfielders per game. Just to see if old father time is actually catching up with him. Might be interesting reading against the likes of Hendo, Allen, Lucas and maybe Lallana.

{Ed002's Note - I am not so sure that is a relevant statistic. Take for example a team chasing around after the ball retained by another side for most of the game - you will find the "lesser" teams running much further.}

30 Nov 2014 14:34:01
Apparently he regularly covered over 11km a game last season, but has only done that amount of running once this season.

That being said, putting Gerrard where he needs to do a lot of running is not how to use him, imo.

30 Nov 2014 14:38:37
Noted Ed002, but i am comparing against his team mates so surely it would show if a player is slacking so to speak.

{Ed002's Note - Would you expect a "holding" midfield player to run as far as an "attacking" midfield player? I wouldn't.}

30 Nov 2014 14:45:17
I would expect it'd show that a player is nearly 35 when the oldest of the team-mates you wish to compare him to is 27 rather than show a player is slacking.

{Ed002's Note - Perhaps we could club together and get him a Segway?}

Champions League stats are the easiest to find for this as they are on the UEFA website.

Gerrard has played 381 minutes, covered 49, 247 meters or 129m/min.

Sterling has played 373 minutes, covered 45, 401 meters or 121m/min.

Henderson has played 337 minutes, covered 43, 951 meters or 130m/min.

Manquillo has played 360 minutes, covered 42, 871 meters or 119m/min.

Those are the top 4 in total distance for us in the CL.

So there you have it, Gerrard can't run, oh wait.
I reckon if Gerrards stats were bad there would be plenty on here highlighting them saying "I told you so"

To be fair most of that running is just pointless jogging around running to his own team mates to get on the ball so that he could end up doing more one two's, and also slowly jogging back to catch up to play. I don't care how much he runs, what's more important is what he runs for as he switches off at all the most inappropriate times.

Distance stats are pretty misleading though. I bet you didn't know that Peter Crouch averaged 14k per gane at one point in his career?

Average sprints made, number of times dribbled past and take ons would be a far better basis for an argument that Gerrard still has legs. Sometimes though, you just have to put down Opta, and just watch the game.

Some might argue that a holding midfielder running that far is pretty awful. What does that say about his positional sense?

{Ed001's Note - I was thinking that myself. Stats are only of use if you have the ability to analyse them correctly. Which is why I hate them, as very few, even of those employed to do so, have the ability to do so. It is difficult to remove your emotions and look at things coldly, without bias, and examine them properly. Also people tend to have problems identifying which stats should be given more weight, usually they interpret them due to some personal bias, which often leads to misleading results. Which is why someone like Comolli can make such a mess of buying players through the stats alone.}

Adam, the point i was making is that if his stats were bad there would be posters ready to jump on the bandwagon and one of them would have most likely been you, you use stats when it suits your argument and ignore them when it doesnt, even your buddy ED01 has told you that in the past when you two wasnt as "close" as you are now.
I suppose I have set myself up for a telling off by Ed01 now, ah well, I'm a big boy and can take it.

{Ed001's Note - hahaha no mate. I do agree, stats are an annoyance.}

30 Nov 2014 12:40:18
Finally Brendan gives us something to cheer about, A win and a clean sheet, and most of the (ab)users on this site, finds other things to be negative about. I know it wasn´t the greatest performance, but why do you keep focusing on the negatives instead of the positives?

Fuzz, IMO, many of us are not focusing on the negatives (some are to your point) BUT sounding the alarm at the issues this team still has regardless of yesterday`s much-needed win and if you watched the game, those issues still exist. It was only when we upped the tempo in the last 30mins that we had them on the rack atimes. It is clear to see that the slow possession system does not fit the players we have (mostly those who will thrive in a high press, up-tempo system of last year which was present in the 2nd half) and placing 90m pounds of signings on the bench is also a scathing indictment on BR and that dreadful commitee while playing off-form players and not giving players like Lallana, Can and Borini a chance is what most are moaning about and rightfully so, IMO. I`ll take the win anyday BUT this team still has problems and only time will tell if BR has learnt his lesson.

I agree with you redohio why can't other fans see that? we were awful (to put it mildly) against Stoke they should have at least got a draw we won but we scraped it! wait till we play the likes of United, if we win then i will be happy to eat humble pie.

On that point Jack, playing 30mins of decent football will NOT win us games on a consistent basis in any league and that will defo fail against better teams as you rightly point out. You need to be on your game for 90-95mins and with BR palying that failed system for 45-60mins, we are hamstrung and have wasted 2/3 of the game chasing shadows instead of putting teams on the rack from the blast of the whistle which was our strength last season.

Ha ha, we finally agree red! love it.

30 Nov 2014 10:42:44
What's with the negativity we are low on confidence we aren't going to turn things around in a week we need to pick up points and get confidence up everybody knows this so stop moaning take it game by game come on

INDIAN BUZZER, STURRIDGE yes, but coutinho debatable, very debatable, to inconsistent, always gets subbed, always on the periphery of a game, never dominates a game, a nearly player, so out of all his signings to date only STURRIDGE is a success.

Wembley, I disagree mate. The only reason he always gets subbed is because BR won't sub stevie or hendo!

He was one of the best players on the park against Chelsea along with Can and yet the whole crowd knew who he would take off. Hence the boos when it happened.

You can't expect the lad to get any momentum and form going when he's constantly in and out of the team!

Look at Can, hasn't played since his great performance against Chelsea!

30 Nov 2014 10:16:12
if we could sell balotelli in january could
cherlie austin be an option eds ?

thanks

{Ed002's Note - Liverpool has shown no interest in him.}

30 Nov 2014 11:03:11
Ok I'll be the first one to bite. Charlie Austin. WTF!!!!!!

30 Nov 2014 12:00:22
Jesus Christ.

We have come down to Charlie Austin now?

Must b a whined up.

30 Nov 2014 04:21:54
Hi Ed002/Ed001,

I had asked about the probable candidates for DOF to look after our football strategy in case we appoint one. Ed002 answered saying that rather than appointing the best candidate, we would look who is the best fit for our club. I would like to know some names in the Eds' minds. (Would also appreciate the managers that could work under them like Johan Cryuff + Frank de Boer) Also, what do you think of Frank Arnesen?

Thanks

{Ed002's Note - You need to go back and look at what I have said repeatedly. The owners are looking at a much bigger picture.}

Correct me if I'm wrong Ed I think there looking to change things big style from top to bottom.

{Ed002's Note - They are looking to figure the problems out and will change what is deemed necessary.}

Ed as the owners are not footballing people isn't it the most critical point that they utilise Top class footballing people to advise them. If they use the wrong people surely we could get into worst trouble?

Do you know who these advisors are?

{Ed002's Note - I am aware of a couple of folks who have been consulted and I am aware of an approach for someone to come in as an independent assessor that was rebuffed by his management. I really don't see any point in getting in to naming names as it simply lead to more people who don't deserve it getting abused by the Liverpool supports.

I can however assure you that the owners will take a reasoned approach.}

I would love to see Arnesen. He was also one of my favourite players in his day :-)

30 Nov 2014 00:23:13
one small step for man kind one massive step for the team, i can't ask for any more, the way our confidence is, a win, 3 pts and a clean sheet, for a team to turn around bad performances it needs a little luck we got that today let's hope we can do the same in our next game, before you know we will be walking then running instead of sxoing it step by step

We will have to see if it is a massive step for the team. At the moment I think it is still just one small step for the team as well. If we don't win in Leicester mid week we are back in square 1. Let's see how the next 4-5 games including the ManU and Basel go. If we win these 2, some of the more critical of us (including myself) will have to shut up for a bit.

The problem is, performance wise we are not there yet and the question if this is just due to lack of confidence, lack of quality, or poor manager is still out there for the Jury (I am quite concerned it is more than just lack of confidence).

But you can't argue with a win and a clean sheet. If someone had told me in the summer that we'd start a PL game without Sturridge, Balotelli, Markovich, Lallana, Can, Lovren, Moreno and Manquillo (and Gerrad) and still win 1:0, I would probably be quite impressed as long as he didn't tell me why all these didn't start and what happened in the previous episodes.

29 Nov 2014 23:03:01
Waro, it's not the Stevie haters as you like to call them mate, it is anyone who takes a place in the team who is not doing the business! doesn't matter who it is and when he came on what did he do? score? create? neither is the answer.

What did he do when he came on? Good god. Hold together a cogent argument at least. You've clearly never played football lad. Didn't the stevie haters want him dropped and to only come on for the last 20 mins? So now you crowd don't even want him near the team by the looks of it.

Stevie is still the best footballer at the club, he is just used incorrectly by a manager who thinks he's better than he is.

I am not a Stevie G "hater" as you put it but i am a realist! if the man is out of form and playing like a 60 year old he should not be in the team and that goes for every player!