Liverpool Banter Archive August 31 2015

31 Aug 2015 22:18:26
Read that Suso is possibly leaving Milan on loan. Interesting that the club were slammed on here by some when Suso left, saying he'd been Brendaned. Maybe he just wasn't good enough?

31 Aug 2015 22:32:55
He's 21 still learning,he went on loan to almeira at 19 and performed well in 13/14 came back for game time,got nothing. found that BR had purchased a few players in his position,and wasn't allowed to leave that summer. He needs games,nothing has changed,he may get that elsewhere and come back a better player,instead of being wasted on a bench for an entire season stunting his growth as a player.

31 Aug 2015 23:02:25
Hard to believe the witch hunt was wrong?

{Ed001's Note - how is it wrong? This is idiocy. I am going to delete imbecilic comments like this in future. If you don't understand youth development, you would be best shutting up, the pair of you. You just make it obvious you have no idea what you are talking about when you gob off like this and embarrass yourself with a complete lack of insight.}

31 Aug 2015 23:46:08
How nice to have hindsight on your side. Suso played well when called upon and was never seen again. Brendan was slammed for that you will find. The same has happened with Teixeira and Rossiter, both were given one appearance at some point, made very good accounts of themselves, and were never seen again. Rossiter finally has been given another chance this season.

01 Sep 2015 03:37:51
Milan is in a shambles hence, proves nothing about his ability. Every player needs to be trusted and given confidence in order to excel and at Milan, the club has been a shambles for years with a revolving door of managers and lack of funds. Not defending the boy but just telling the situation at the club as it is. I would know because I've been a Milan fan sice the days of Gullit, Van Basten and Rijkaaard.

01 Sep 2015 05:28:14
it depends on whether he was given as much chance as he was with us. By 'good enough' I would assume as a 19 year old that looked pretty decent whenever he did play was as much as anyone could expect and should have been enough to warrant more of a chance. he was never given a good run of games no matter how well he did as a sub.

01 Sep 2015 06:23:46
Ed001, bit harsh mate, I simply pointed out what may be happening with Suso and opined that if both clubs can't find a spot for him in the team then maybe he isn't as good as was hoped? This isn't what I would consider "gobbing off" and certainly don't consider it embarrassing myself, just a straightforward observation.

{Ed001's Note - I was referring to the 'witch hunt' comment. Ron's constant defence of the way our manager has failed the kids is embarrassing. This is the problem with blind faith merchants, they refuse to look at things from a fair perspective and accept that even the best make mistakes. Sadly Rodgers is not even the best manager currently in the club's employ, let alone the best, and he has, and is still continuing to make mistakes. In particular with his utterly awful use of youngsters.}

01 Sep 2015 07:47:25
Couldn't agree more Ed. If memory serves me correctly, it was Hodgson that gave Suso a run out as a 16 year old.
I hear Rodgers hardly ever attends youth games. I was back in the UK just after Kenny took over from Hodgson and took my lad along to watch the academy boys playing in Kirkby. My son asked me who the bloke was scoffing down the pie in the tracksuit and I had to take a second look before recognising it was Kenny, legend.

{Ed001's Note - Kenny would attend every time he could, I asked how often Rodgers had been along to watch and no one I asked could actually remember him personally attending. This is why people get personal about him, as he has time to have his teeth whitened, shag his secretary and the fake tan applied, but not enough time to bother doing his job and watch the youth teams play. All of those players are possible players he could be picking from for the first team, yet he doesn't even know them. For me that is a sacking offence all on its own.}

01 Sep 2015 08:25:56
..........deleted..............

{Ed002's Note - I assume you posted this in error Davey. You will need to go to that porn web site and apologise for posting about Suso.}

01 Sep 2015 08:44:19
''Oh no you didn't''. snap haha

01 Sep 2015 11:15:42
It's truly a disgrace that he doesn't watch the youth teams. His reputation for giving youth a chance is false, it only happens when he needs a player due to injuries or whatever, then he puts in players that somebody else tells him about because he has no choice. It was interesting to see Van Gaal say he'd go watch the 2nd team instead of watching the Champions League draw. This reminds me of Trapattoni with Ireland,I don't think there's any point forcing Brendan to watch games if he doesn't want to, we just have to replace him with somebody that actually eats, sleeps and breathes football.

01 Sep 2015 11:51:27
Our youth squad must know they do not stand a chance with us if the first team manager cannot put down the san Tropez and have a watch. If he actually watched would he then realise that I did not need Lovren, Lallana and Allen?

01 Sep 2015 13:49:11
Nope.

It was in reply to the editors use of a word in the above reply.

01 Sep 2015 13:59:19
Ed01, you will find that Ron has no prob making an arse of himself while making up fantasies in defence of his indefensible BFF. He has spent months doing that and frankly, his comments lack credibility, logic and are filled with unsubstatiated fantasies. ED01 has already mentioned that BR has no time for the kids which is why he doesn`t even know who they are because he`s barely ever seen them play. He is too busy doing everything else BUT his job and people wonder why he has been a failure

31 Aug 2015 21:24:53
Everyone on this forum appreciates football has moved on from the tika-taka Barcelona played 4-5 years ago

Football has moved on
Reference Germany hammering Brazil
Bayern hammering Barcelona

We stumbled on this new style of play when we played Suarez / Sterling / Sturridge up front
High press and Moving the ball as quick as possible to these front three who had pace and trickery and went directly for goal as a front 3 - it was all about attempts on goal

It proved so successful that it nearly won us the league
Within 2 seasons we lost these players
Lost all the pace and trickery

And trying to play the en vogue 4-2-3-1 but with the wrong type of players
Secret to this system is still pace and trickery in the counter-attacks
City realised hence - sterling + de bruyne
Chelsea realised hence - Pedro + failed gamble cuadrado and Oscar
United trying with - depay + young (failed with Pedro and di Maria )
Arsenal - Sanchez + showing not working with Ozil
Reason for failures is because the system needs place with electric pace and quality trickery to beat defenders to create genuine goal scoring attempts

See Bayern with robben and ribery

31 Aug 2015 23:04:07
Yes very true . Balance pace and at least! One midfielder who can control the game and deliver a ball from deep and can be deft enough to play in front of back 4 . Full of limited utility midfielders we are . No pace . Blueprints of any good prem lge sides are built on these fundamentals . Palace Swansea for e.g use this basis and it's showing . Excuse the pun but " we are going nowhere fast!!"

{Ed001's Note - it is not about pace, it is about moving the ball with pace. This is why English sides have fallen so far behind, the obsession with physical ability over technique.}

31 Aug 2015 23:46:21
What a load of tosh. Any system with players that follow the instructions will win you the league.
I also get the feeling you may well be harry.
Atletico won the league in 2014 with 4-4-2 a formation consigned to the history book and got to the final of the champions league,and Bayern in all their years of playing 4-2-3-1 only won 1 champions league.Ribery is quite frankly a myth,with poor finishing and crossing and very little trickery,I was astounded he was ever in with a chance of player of the year. Barcelona once again returned to the elite this year playing 4-3-3,but utilising player in numbers of roles.Suarez covering back,iniesta ticking the play over keeping posession,rakitic looking for space inbetween players to spread the play,with Messi and Neymar keeping defenses spread by staying wide.I could go on with Atleticos 4-4-2 but I won't.


The trick to any team being successful is having no weak links,a regular playing 11 of pure quality who know each others games,the lines they need to draw,passes to make etc etc. If pace and trickery is what was required how come a slow Atletico won la liga and got to the final of the champions league taking it to extra time? how did Juventus get to the final last year and win 3 scudettos on the trot? Why did Bayern during their glory years of Robben and Ribery lose 2 bundesliga titles to a Dortmund of Goetze,Gundongan,Hummels,Lewandowski,Bender,Kehl,Subotic etc etc.

01 Sep 2015 01:30:41
Well a few years ago we signed a manager that was supposed to develop a style of play that didn't require the worlds best players; for the simple fact that we can't afford the worlds best players.
However, our fearless leader abandoned that idea, and abandoned the tactics and intelligence that made him a great prospect at Swansea. He is simply trying to become his mentor. A man that will rely on big names, rather than nouse. On starpower over willpower. We can never move forward if we try to play the same financial games that Chelsea and City play.
We need something else, something that a few clubs still have, but is becoming very rare, and will die out entirely if we don't revive it. (Dortmund of a few years ago, Bilbao of a few years ago, Atletico overcoming Barca and Real, Stuttgart, Wolfsberg etc, Even LFC in 08-09)

That something that sets you apart from the pack, that isn't unlimited money. It still exists, but we need the right people and attitude to find it.
In all honesty, we have a squad that can challenge, but our manager doesn't seem to believe so.

01 Sep 2015 05:30:38
yeah barcelona's tika taka system looked dead last season. they didn't come close to beating anyone decent or winning any trophies.

{Ed001's Note - they have never played a tiki taka system, they certainly never played it last season, no matter what crap the media peddles.}

31 Aug 2015 20:37:53
Jakub Błaszczykowski has just signed for Fiorentina. Should put those rumors to bed.

31 Aug 2015 21:04:25
Messi couldn't help us with bodger in charge!

01 Sep 2015 02:05:49
I'm sure B Rodgers could squeeze Messi into a wingback position ;o)

31 Aug 2015 18:52:57
Hi Eds! i know it was a while ago, but can you tell me why Daniel Agger was actually sold?
I know he was injury prone but when he played he was our best Centre Back.

{Ed001's Note - because Rodgers didn't want him.}

31 Aug 2015 19:19:35
Everyone is conveniently forgetting that his performance level was not good enough during 2013 14 season after yet another injury at the seasons beginning.

31 Aug 2015 19:34:41
Just like he is trying to sell another "best CB at the club" in Sahko

31 Aug 2015 19:59:17
Best CB you are joking aren't you?

31 Aug 2015 20:24:50
Agger was not a good centre back IMO. The current lot aren't much better but Agger had lots of weaknesses.
I think people were bowled over by his ability on the ball for a defender, but he lacked the ability to defend.

31 Aug 2015 21:24:31
Agger was massively on the decline. A club legend and seemed a superb lad but he had slowed down and was off the pace in tackling and heading/marking.

31 Aug 2015 21:34:17
Ron Keague ladies and gentleman, expert on defending and fan of Brendan Rodgers

31 Aug 2015 21:41:34
Here's a scenario. you have a two year old child and you take them to the shopping centre, one minute they are running away from you the next stopping or going backwards because they've seen something.

Fortunately you can put reins on a child.

Now replace child with Skrtel on a football pitch - unfortunately Agger couldn't put reins on him either and ended up having to cover him and his desire to do what he wanted rather than the team!

31 Aug 2015 22:17:58
Cheers Essex but I don't need any support from you thanks

31 Aug 2015 22:46:05
Sean, absolutely bang on.

01 Sep 2015 03:41:06
He wasn't

31 Aug 2015 16:33:06
Borini to Sunderland confirmed.7.75 rising to 9.75.Good to get a half decent amount for him,hopefully get rid of some more before the deadline.

31 Aug 2015 16:05:18
Would really like to wish Fabio well I'm his career.

Whatever you think of him at least he always tried his best and gave 100%.

31 Aug 2015 16:14:07
Decent player who deserved better treatment from Brendan and the club. Hopefully he helps Sunderland nick a few points of our rivals. Best of luck to him and his family.

31 Aug 2015 16:39:16
The caged lion has been free'd

31 Aug 2015 16:39:28
Or nick points off us Indian buzzer? Though in my opinion Borini was never good enough!

31 Aug 2015 17:19:17
Don't know how any player deserves better treatment.
If he's deemed not good enough why should he be selected?
Anyway good luck Fabio, bag a few against Man Utd

31 Aug 2015 17:39:42
Deemed not good enough by a hopeless manager though Ron who would rather give game time to ballotelli.

31 Aug 2015 17:49:25
@ Indian.

The only mistreatment he could've gotten is if he was led to believe he'd get decent game time last summer if he stayed. Idk if that happened or not.

His goal record in the Premier League between ourselves, Chelsea and Sunderland is 1 goal in every 6.7 games, and bear in mind half his goals are penalties he scored at Sunderland. That's about the same strike rate as David N'Gog, and worse than the much derided Andriy Voronin. And I don't his work-rate was all that exceptional, it just looked exceptional compared to Balotelli. He did his share of running, but he wasn't Dirk Kuyt.

Nice fella and all, but not really good enough to have warranted any more chances than he got, imo.

{Ed001's Note - to be fair, Borini usually played out wide.}

31 Aug 2015 18:12:38
While also taking into account that he didn't really ever get a run of games which I'm certain would help any striker score more goals

31 Aug 2015 18:17:37
The fact he was completely outcast is a good example. There was no reason, not one, why you would have had Mario Balotelli In that squad last season ahead of him.

31 Aug 2015 19:43:00
Ron before you trash Fab, remember that it was your BFF who signed him and called him "a very exciting" player so if he has failed the blame should also go to your BFF or will you offer up another excuse for BR buying a flop? You know what? Don`t answer that.

31 Aug 2015 13:33:21
just wondered if we have an interest in any fullbacks? If Rodgers sees Moreno as a winger we only have gomez and clyne. Also, what do you make of United getting Martial for 36 million? Makes Firmino look a bargain in my opinion.

{Ed002's Note - Firmino was far from a bargain - and it is nothing to do what other clubs pay for players.}

31 Aug 2015 13:55:32
Firmino was no bargain irrespective of what Martial just went for. W paid close to 40 million Euros for a player we did not need in the first place. wide forward would have been a better fit than another CAM

{Ed002's Note - More than €40M with the potential to rise to €50M.}

31 Aug 2015 14:44:29
What`s your prob with Firmino? He can play anywhere in the forward line and he may be overpriced but so is Martial who is not in Firmino`s class and who went for even more that Firmino did so still don`t understand your pointless rant, really.

31 Aug 2015 14:57:03
Where exactly did i rant? i'm just saying there were other players out there who would have been better value for money and suited our style better. Its my opinion and the first one i have given on Firmino. Never said he was not good enough or anything of the sort.

31 Aug 2015 15:10:49
Ed, will the fee rise to €50m if he wins trophies or is that set in stone anyway to rise that high

{Ed002's Note - It will be subject to several criteria as it was with, for example, Sterling, Aquilani, etc.. Sometimes appearances, sometimes Champions League etc..}

31 Aug 2015 15:11:12
That may be the case but if your op is there was someone better. OF COURSE, there are better players out there like I don`t know Messi, CR, Bale or whoever else so again, I don`t understand your opinion. IMO, I just thought you were having a go at the poor boy who was actually, the only bright spark in a deplorable perf on sat. If you have your op, i have mine as well

31 Aug 2015 15:25:50
I never said i wanted a better player than Firmino redohio. Read carefully before commenting. I wanted a player than our squad needed more than Firmino as we already have too many CAMs. A wide forward would have actually been a better addition than any CAM this season but unfortunately Brendan screwed up as usual.

31 Aug 2015 15:47:47
indian buzzer , i think firmino is more of a striker than a c.a.m he can play as a main striker he can also play as a wide forward , he has scored a lot of goals at his former clubs more so than a player in a c.a.m position , the fact he can also play as a c.a.m means there's more strings to his bow than just a wide forward , look at sterling who was a winger until BR arrived at our club then he used his as a striker not because he had the skill or composure of a striker or even that he scored a lot of goals from the wing but just because of his pace now sterling thinks he is a striker when in fact he is just a winger who is fast , so the fact that firmino can score goals has the composure and the skill and is also fast and direct means he is more of a striker central or wide than a c.a.m , let's give firmino a chance of more than a few starts before we judge where is best position is , i also think sturridge can play as a wide forward has he has played in tht position on a lot of occasions in fact i think he is better as a wide forward than a central one , with benteke in the team he is going to be the central striker and we will have sturridge on one side of him and firmino on the other side both as wide forwards , so i don't see the need for us to buy another wide forward ,plus with jordan ibe being so young he can learn to play other positions , i'm not the manager and i don't know his thinking or his tactics for the coming eason or when we are in europe , what concerns me more is our def-mid position because teams have been running through our midfield at will putting our defence and goal under pressure , we need a player who will stop this happening , that's what i think any way

31 Aug 2015 15:55:25
Again, you don`t understand my post. Firmino is an upgrade on our CAM`s. If anything, BR screwed up on buying Milner and not selling Allen. That is my opinion on our team as it stands now. Our squad just needed some tweaking but like you said. BR bought Milner who we did not need, in. Firmino IMO, we did need.

31 Aug 2015 20:32:53
Milner was a free agent so he wasn't "bought" by anyone

{Ed002's Note - Aside from the very significant signing on fee.}

31 Aug 2015 22:21:15
I would imagine all England international players have a very significant signing on fee, but defer to your greater experience ed

{Ed001's Note - still doesn't make him free.}

31 Aug 2015 22:49:26
And his obscene wages

31 Aug 2015 10:52:21
not really liverpool related but have been looking on other team rumours pages & couldn't really see much. can ED002 if he/she has a spare couple mins give us a quick update with potential deals?
I would be really surprised if I don't see man u & Chelsea make a few major signings in next 30 hours. I understand it more a lfc sale than buying market at the minute but have you heard of any snipets of any potential deals that may include us in a domino effect with any potential deals?

many thanks for all the hard work u guys & gals put it.

{Ed002's Note - I am not going to get in to detail here but I expect a lot of business to be done by English sides still - Manchester City has already got there business done with de Bruyne. Manchester United are still looking to get deals completed for players and Chelsea are trying to make a couple of significant signings. The situation with de Bruyne looked like it might force Bayern to look again at the market - they wanted him for next summer, but that won't happen now. There will still be a few random players changing hands to plug a few holes in various squads as well. I think Valencia may be done now. Zenit certainly aren't and the leading Italian sides are still working on a number of transfers. There will be some movement in France and Spain today as well. So edge of the seat stuff for another 30 and some odd hours for you.}

31 Aug 2015 11:25:19
cheers ED002, your reply has been mostly appreciated I watch in anticipation as to what will happen in the coming hours.

31 Aug 2015 12:38:23
Excellent response there Ed!

31 Aug 2015 14:00:24
Surprised juve haven't signed some more, they've lost a lot of top players

{Ed002's Note - They are working on it.}

31 Aug 2015 09:22:18
Ed001, I would be very interested in your thoughts of how we can improve, whether it's using different players or changing tactics.
Thanks again

{Ed002's Note - Ask again on Wednesday - the Eds are going to be busy with transfers today.}

31 Aug 2015 10:03:50
Sure thing! Apologies for being inconsiderate

{Ed002's Note - No problem.}

31 Aug 2015 08:20:38
Morning reds,

Weekend loan update.

Ojo was a 60th minute sub and played a staring role as wolves came from 1 down to beat Charlton 2-1, claiming an assist for the second goal.

Lloyd Jones was an unused substitute as Blackpool lost 4nil at home to Walsall.

Vigouroux and Stewart played the full 90 whilst Randall was an unused substitute as Swindon lost 2 nil to Sheffield Utd.

Wisdom was a 30th minute sub due to Whittakers red card but was unable to prevent Norwich losing 3 nil to Southampton.

Danny Ward helped Aberdeen win away to Partic Thistle keeping a clean sheet as they run out 2-0 winners.
Its 5 wins in 5 for Aberdeen now who currently sit 2nd to Celtic but a game in hand. Up next, Celtic!

Luis Alberto came off injured after 30minutes as Deportivo drew 1-1 with Valencia.

Balloteli was an unused sub as AC Milan beat Empoli 2-1

Markovic wasn't in the squad as fenerbache won 2-1

Maguire was an unused sub as Leyton Orient beat Bristol 2-0.

Wilson was an unused sub as Crewe lost 1 nil to Wigan.

31 Aug 2015 08:50:22
Thanks for the update Carra.
I look forward to further updates.

31 Aug 2015 11:17:00
Cheers man. We appreciate the work you have been doing on the loanees.

31 Aug 2015 13:24:20
Did you mean Williams instead of Randall?

31 Aug 2015 13:37:30
i watched the Norwich game and i thought Wisdom looked good, he wasn't at fault for any of the goals and when he went forward he looked decent.

31 Aug 2015 17:54:27
Yes olivander sorry, Williams not Randall. To many to remember lol

31 Aug 2015 18:42:52
Top notch carra as always 👍 appreciate the effort as I'm sure most do on the site

31 Aug 2015 04:52:10
Lovren needs to be dropped. Not good enough. Price tags mean nothing. He has been given a full season and is still not up to scratch by some way.

Give somebody else a run for goodness sake.

Sakho,Toure, Ilori, Gomez, Wisdom, Lucas, Can, Sturridge - I don't care - just try somebody else.

It's frustrating to see BR give Lovren a prolonged run but hardly gave Lambert, Moronic, Ilori and others a run .

31 Aug 2015 07:16:35
Moronic and Boring have to be two of my favorite auto-correct players on our team.

31 Aug 2015 15:20:54
Gary Monk is showing usp BR with every game he coaches swansea in. the man has proven that football is a simple game and all you have to do is have a system, a plan a vision and then get the right players in to thrive on these and Bob`s your uncle. And if it doesn`t work atimes, the man is able to adapt. asd we saw last night vs Utd. I was just lauging after the game because in the end, he showed that he is not agenius BUT understands the simplicities of the game. BR could learn from him but I doubt it because he learns nothing hence, many are surprised that he still makes the same mistakes

31 Aug 2015 23:10:03
So would everyone be happy if FSG replaced BR with Monk?

30 Aug 2015 23:59:30
I haven't seen us look so tame. It was almost like watching the stoke match last season. There was no ambition, no penetration, no organization. It's like all Rogers does is to select the team, and ask them to improvise. We should just let him go and start rebuilding, the sooner the better.

31 Aug 2015 08:07:15
If purely feels like he just tell them to play. There is zero method in how to open up teams and it's been like that since the first game bar Arsenal because they for some reason were nervous playing us. but i'm happy we got a reality check this early we needed it because it means we have to now work on these issues and not avoid them because we get a few lucky 1-0 wins.

31 Aug 2015 11:19:14
After 3 years and over £300 million spend, I would like to ask Rodgers what the hcek he has been doing.

31 Aug 2015 15:27:18
He`s busy being LFC manager in name only with not a sausage to his name.

30 Aug 2015 20:07:54
Edward 1 . What do you make of our lack of pace offensively and the spoofer filling out midfield with utility players such as can Milner Henderson Allen and Lucas as the only dm ? Every top side in premier lge era had pace power . To boot our midfield lacks the ability to control a game as none of them are if that ilk and as I said they are utility . We lack penetration . Pardew and monk are showing him up for assembling their squads on the basics , pace out wide and variation of the midfield so as to maximise creativity and then add the hard work element . We really do look toothless and basic . There's nothing to fear from us . Rodgers imo won't last .

{Ed001's Note - I just think he lacks tactical acumen and other teams have worked him out. Even the changes he makes are just formations, not tactical. Having players like that in midfield should allow him to be tactically flexible, but they simply aren't good enough players mentally to work it out. Milner is not a captain, he leads nothing on the pitch, doesn't act like a manager on the pitch and struggles to spot where he should be running. He is little more than a headless chicken once in the centre.}

31 Aug 2015 10:58:16
A lot of the time, the players just stand about, it seems like the don't where to be. You could see that every time, Lucas for example, had the ball the players ahead didn't show up neither did they run forward, and so he ended up passing it to one of the full backs. There's no passing triangles, there's no overloading the wings, there's just nothing.

31 Aug 2015 11:09:14
I think how well Sterling is doing in Man City shows how much difference having a good coach with a clear tactical plan can improve a player's performance.

31 Aug 2015 20:21:12
Spot on Jax with your City analysis. Pellegrini has learnt after almost getting the sack at city that what he has been doing no longer works and a change is needed. His 442 no longer works and that system left his CB`s exposed each time they got outnumbered in midfield. He has switched it around to a system that not only protects the CB`s, it allows Silva to play in the hole where he is lethal and the team is not only playing well but keeping clean sheets (whis shows the diff b/w keeping clean sheets by limiting the other team`s chances and our clean sheets which rlies mainly on the other team being woeful in front of goal or the refs bailing us out). same thing Sat, he switched to a 442 when the system wasn`t working and that opened up the game and they won. BR did none of that vs WH nad the game was already lost before he did. Pello is a coach who has learnt his lessons and his team are the better for it. BR had better learn fast because this time, there will be no marsh, pascoe, Balotelli, the pitch or Studge`s injuries to blame for his failures should he not get results