Liverpool Banter Archive October 31 2014

31 Oct 2014 16:33:43
ED001 mate, you've said a couple of times that we threw away the league due to mismanagement of players - would you please expand on that?

I thought we just got unlucky, winning 12 games in a row is exceptional and losing to a Mourinho Chelsea is always a possibility.

cheers ed

{Ed001's Note - I understand what you mean, but the players fell through sheer exhaustion at the end, according to the man in charge himself. They were just knackered out apparently. For me, that comes down to mismanagement. If players are getting tired, then reduce their workload in training, rotate them and/or use your sub effectively to bring freshness into the team. None of those things were done.}

We lost the title because we should've played for the draw when Chelsea came to visit. We went out to try and slaughter them. Stupid move by Brendan. We then went to Palace and went 3-0 up and instead of sitting on that, Rodgers wanted to try and win the title on goal difference even though City were like 8 goals above us. Stupid move by Brendan.

At the end of the day, Brendan lost us that title sheerly by thinking he's the top dog.

But let's be grateful for Brendan getting us in that position in the first place.

31 Oct 2014 23:40:59
Disagree with Eusebio on the Chelsea game. It was even in the first half, neither side was going all out. But after Gerrard's slip, we had no choice but to attack. I can't fault BR for that game, they defended extremely well and we just couldn't break them down 2nd half (wasn't helped by SG shooting on sight to try and atone).

The Palace game I agree with you, had he just shut up shop and won, it would have put more pressure on City.

Actually quackers, he was going all out in the chelsea game. They were wasting time from the first minute because we were going at them trying to score. If he wasn't going all out, why was no one covering Stevie, a midfielder? It's because he pushed everyone up to attack. If he was playing for the draw he would've had the defenders further back, right?

Brendan was very cocky and too sure of himself to some extent. In my view, the loss to Chelsea put us in a difficult position. Before the game, nobody ever said we should go for a draw especially after all the injuries that and distractions with a CL semi-final Chelsea had. It was only after the game that people and pundits alike were saying it which is always the way it goes. It was the Palace game and the way we collapsed while chasing the impossible was what got my blood boiling. As Eusebio said, that match was already won and that would have put presure on City to win their game v Villa and who knows what would have happened. It was his pride and lack of respect for Palace, thinking he could put 9-10 goals past them that was his undoing. All in all, we should not beat him up too much because he was a big reason we were in that position to begin with and I will always credit him for that regardless that the outcome was unfavorable.

I still can't believe the urgency we showed early in the Chelsea game when they were slowing things down. I was sitting there imploring the boys to take it easy. In the palace game, when 3 up, you can't just blame Brendan, the crowd were yelling "attack, attack" hoping for a 9-0 repeat. Also ed, you say subs should have been used better to rest players who were knackered, what subs? There were so many games when you looked and the bench and wondered who could come on and add anything.

{Ed001's Note - that is because he refused to trust kids like Teixeira when it mattered. Lack of balls which are needed to win titles. You don't win leagues by taking easy decisions, you win them by making the big decisions and getting them right.}

It was the Palace game that ended it for us, the defence crumbled and that destroyed the belief they could do it. Remember the Suarez reaction and Stevie consoling, pushing the camera away? They lost the title there and they knew it.

So whose fault was it? Everyone's there, no scapegoats.

Like you said ed, kids. When managers don't play certain players, it's easy to question them. I tend to think "I guess the manager isn't seeing what he wants to see in training."

{Ed001's Note - I find that many managers see what they wish to see in training but still ignore the kids because it is much easier to pick experienced players when there is something to lose. It takes bottle to take a risk. I find it ridiculous to suggest what you have, and just shows the kind of blind faith that saw people still worshipping Rafa when the club was falling apart because of him. The manager isn't always right.}

Watch yourself ED01 you'll have the natives bullying you, you know they don't like the truth. , keep up the good work.

{Ed001's Note - adding your support will ensure that I am sure!

Ridiculous to suggest what? That a manager sees and knows more about his squad than we do? I have no problems playing youth. I would like to see less spending on potential and more playing of what we have, not necessarily at the pointy end of the season though. Use them at home against supposedly weaker opposition and in cup games. And I take exception to your blind faith insinuation. I judge based on observation and experience, not blindly. I also know my limitations. I don't pretend to know more about players and managers than I actually do. I also don't believe the manager is always right, see konchesky, Hodgson and poulsen for example.

{Ed001's Note - yes it is ridiculous to suggest a manager knows more about his players than his coaches, who were very much in favour of Teixeira getting more time, for instance, after his one cameo spot and vanishing back to the reserves act that Brendan decided on. It is also ridiculous to suggest that a manager does know more, when it is quite clear that so many know so little. Has Rodgers proven himself over a long period of time? No. So there is no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt over a clearly cowardly decision to hide behind experience rather than trust in youth. Please don't point at players like Flanno as examples of his faith in it, he would have been nowhere near the first team if there had not been such a lack of experienced players for the fullback roles. Also, his move over to the left, rather than bringing in one of the young left backs at the club, shows that Rodgers would rather stick with what he already knows than take a risk. His handling of youth players has been simply appalling. You don't bring a youngster in for a sub appearance, have him play well, then drop him from the squad never to be seen again. That just destroys their confidence. You don't mess around with them being on the bench game after game and never even giving them a run out as a sub, when the team is crying out for their creativity, as he did with Suso. You don't continually buy and loan in players in the positions we actually have outstanding youngsters in, just so you don't have to turn to them when injuries happen.}

Some good points there ed. If you're right, then Rodgers has a staff that disagree with him regarding decisions with youth. As mike marsh is a relation, I guess I'll take it up with him then.

Getting players in onloan when we have youth players who can play there is a head-scratcher for me as well.

31 Oct 2014 12:29:13
Hi Ed033.

I was just wondering mate, what has happened to the 'Liverpool Teams' page? It seems to be nothing more than an alternative link to the 'Other Liverpool Posts' page.

It's definitely not right though. Is this something at my end, or at your end?

Kind regards,

{Ed033's Note - Hi East Midlands Scouser,
There was a small error, thanks for the post. The Liverpool teams page now shows teams and formations. The Other Liverpool posts page is for Eds to place posts they don't want to put on any of our other pages.

Cheers Ed!

31 Oct 2014 09:44:31
Are we selling Lucas this January? I feel we should sell him and I don't understand why we need to buy a DM. Emre Can was supposed to be a DM right? If he is not supposed to be a shield for our defence why do we have so many attacking midfielders?(sterling, Coutinho, Allen, Markovic, Lallana)? I would rather see Hendo returning back to attacking role once DM problem is resolved.

I like Emre Can. However I'm not keen on the idea of our two options at defensive midfielder being a 34 year old attacking midfielder (Gerrard), a 20 year old box to box midfielder (Can) and a 17 year old (Rossiter).

Can for me has the potential to be moulded into whatever role we choose for him. He could comfortably adapt to a holding role. I just feel that it'd be like buying a Ferrari to pick up the morning paper. It would compeltely shackle his runs from deep that he is so good at (ala Yaya Toure). In my opinion, he is made for a 4-2-3-1 formation to play as part of the 2 alongside a more disciplined holding midfielder. I honestly don't think he was the right buy for us in hindsight.

I still think he'll be a massive success here, I just think we will either waste a lot of his talents, or mould him into more of a Henderson box to box type player.

Having said that, I would gladly revamp our holding midfield role. I'd use Gerrard far more sparingly, sell Lucas, gradually integrate Rossiter into the role and in the mean time sign a proper holding midfielder who hasn't been wrecked by injuries. I wish we'd pulled our finger out and signed Alonso but I'm going to be really controversial and put forward Jack Colback as a realistic option. I'd love to get Bender (from Dortmund) or Kevin Strootman but I just don't see them coming to us and think Colback is one of the most under rated players in the league. My other wildcard would be to see if Pirlo fancies a new challenge for a couple of years. Again though, I really doubt Juventus would want to sell. The other option is Khediera but I think a lot of teams are gonig to be after him this January. Teams with a lot more finacial muscle than us.

Pirlo? Colback? As an Everton fan I'm right with you on those. What about Ian Rush up front? Get him back. He could still do a job! I think you should look up Stanley Matthews too.
East Midland . You're the guy that championed Balotelli right?
Why don't you start a campaign to bring Heskey back. If you ask me I think you should be drafted in as advisor to transfers at liverpool - and given your own office so as you can 'think' and come to up with new ways of doing things. You're an ideas man, East Midlands. An ideas man!

I can't believe an Everton fan is bleating about football knowledge haha. The fact you ridiculed Pirlo is incredible. Probably the best midfielder in the world right now after Xabi Alonso. Have you seen the way he runs Juventus's team?!

The Colback shout is more of an shot in the dark as he's I player I think he is excellent but hasn't really been appreciated as much as he should've been. He did get a recent England call up mind you though. Perhaps we English people are going to start respecting technically gifted and tactically astute players rather than always looking for pace, height or power. I wouldn't expect an Everton fan to understand much about one of the more exquisite positions in football such as holding midfield though.

Are you implying that football knowledge is the sole preserve of Liverpool fans? Seriously. ?
The majority of Liverpool fans are indeed fair and I applaud your fans treatment of a sublime Ronaldo recently at Anfield where he received a standing ovation. Your response tho almost sounds plausible. but it's groundless; Pirlos best days are behind him. The mans 36 years old ffs. The premier league is beyond him at this stage of his career.
As for colback - he's no better than what you have.
I question your judgement - particularly in regard of your vehement stance on Balotelli. You criticised every person that tried to put an argument as to why he wasn't for liverpool. Suarez was the liveliest of live wires - and Balotelli is static in comparison. He was never going to fit into your system. How you couldn't see that is beyond me. You needed a Berahino or similar.
So excuse me if I fall around laughing at Pirlo and Colback. As I said MOST liverpool fans are knowledgable. Alas, not all.

First, I suggest you go and check how old Pirlo is.

Second, I said Colback is a controversial choice. He is a very good player who will either take to a top team like a fish to water, or fail to make the grade. I personally see the ability in him to make the step up if somebody took a chance on him.

Regarding Balotelli, I was optimistic about his signing. I only ever asked that people gave him a chance though. I still have a belief he will come good but I am starting to have my doubts. I never suggested he was like Suarez, but I honestly thought Rodgers could get him to up his game like he did with Sturridge, Henderson etc. If my confidence in anybody was misplaced, it was my confidence in Rodgers couching ability. He is completely failing to get anything out of Mario, let alone his best.

So if you want to come onto the Liverpool page and start throwing your keyboard warrior crap around, turn up with some basis for a debate next time. Yeah, I was wrong about Rodgers getting the best out of Balotelli (so far). So was a team of carefully selected transfer experts higher up in the game than anybody on this site. People make judgement errors. Does that mean I'm not knowledgeable? In which case, nobody is. Because every manager gets things wrong. How's Kone doing for you guys btw? Just wind your neck in mate. I put forward an opinion on a few players and backed them up with my reasoning. If you disagree, tell me why. Don't just turn up trying to patronise me because I'm not right 100% of the time.

Colback may not be the finished article, but he is a damn good player and it's typical of the English not to notice his more technical qualities. Your attack on Pirlo though! Don't even get me started! A man who is the engine of both his club and national team and seems to get better every season. Tell me, how old was Gary McAllister when Liverpool signed him? Pirlo is 35 btw seeing as you're incapable of using an internet search engine before you jump on your high horse.

I could literally pick your post apart all night but I've got better things to do than justify my right to an opinion to some toffee fan who probably thinks Gareth Barry is still in his early twenties.

{Ed001's Note - I can't believe you are suggesting Colback! He is not physically powerful enough or fast enough to make up for his technical deficiencies in my opinion. Average player at best. Oh and his set pieces are absolutely appalling, because his technique is lacking.}

Don't forget Ed, Colback is very new to this role. He's only been playing there about a year but he looks made for it. I did say from the off that it was just a controversial idea. I never tried to palm him off as a ginger Alonso ;)

Just a thought Ed. I don't think he is world class but he is a realistic option for a specialist position that we're currently desperately lacking in. I'd take Bender, Strootman, Cabaye, De Rossi, Khedeira etc all before I'd take Colback. I just can't see us attracting or having the money for that calibre of player. I genuinely believe that with better players around him, Colback would grow into a very solid holding midfielder. I just think he is massively under rated.

I accept that you disagree because at least you've actually backed up your opinion with an explanation rather than just been childish about it.

Childish?
Whats childish in my disagreeing with you? Yet, an ed disagrees with you and its fine. You're a yes-man EMS.
And Balotelli? That's all Rodgers fault is it? It was you that wanted him - even before Rodgers got to coaching him. It was a worthless silly idea to bring Balotelli to any club let alone a team based on fast-paced-attacking-football.
Oh, and i haven't once slated Pirlo - he just isn't up to the pace of the premier league at this stage of his career. that's not a slight; its a fact. As for Colback!? Seriously?
Yeah sure i'm an everton fan does that mean i don't have an opinion. I been to more liverpool games than you have had hot dinners. My mates attend near every game and often i go along. I seen way more than you. but hey you're the genius!

31 Oct 2014 00:28:34
So I am of the thinking that Lucas should start against Newcastle.

A player in the middle that can break up attacks is crucial away from home, especially considering Newcastle have found a little scoring from recently.

Problem is, where does that leave Gerrard?

I like Gerrard and I think he offers a lot to our play when he's on it but a midfield with both these two in it would be so slow. Yes, you might say 'drop Gerrard' but if we know BR then realistically it's not going to happen is it?

Perhaps a diamond with Gerrard at the tip and strong legs in the middle, maybe Henderson and Can/Allen?

Whatever Rodgers decides to do this is a big game for us and a must-win really to hopefully kick-start our season after the win against Swansea.

31 Oct 2014 08:01:05
Lucas is one of the least disciplined players in the league - the amount of fouls he gives away is horrific. And we are one of if not the worst at defending set pieces. Playing Lucas is asking for trouble

{Ed001's Note - he gives away those fouls to protect the back line from a player running at them at pace, it is about discipline, not a lack of it..}

Lucas is miles better in the defensive mid role than gerrard ever will be. far better to use gerrard in a more attacking role

31 Oct 2014 09:40:43
We have to get Coutinho on the pitch, he is returning to good form and when he is playing well I think he is our best player. Whether that is fitting him in the midfield in a formation that sees 2 up front, or playing him as an inverted forward, he needs to start. I liked him on the side of he diamond last season, but I understand your point of needing legs and protection in the midfield

31 Oct 2014 10:04:47
I don't think he's a bad CDM, and with a better defense he'd probably be one of the best. But a lot of his fouls aren't protecting our defense - they are needless, meaningless fouls in the middle of the park when there is very little danger. He doesn't have that inch he had pre-injury back and it's still noticeable. For most teams that wouldn't be a problem - a free kick in the middle of the field is just a bit of possession play. But considering every free kick against us is like watching a car crash in slow motion, we cannot afford it. Not for me atm, not yet anyway. Once/if we get our defense sorted enough so not every single direct ball results in a good chance, then he can play every match

The fact that he is giving away meaningless fouls in the middle of the pitch surely means he is doing a good job and stopping the attacks at source no? Rather than letting players run past him and having to make last ditch tackles on the edge of the area which is eminently more dangerous no?

Defenders are there to defend regardless if its a long ball from a free kick on the half way line or an attacker running directly at them, i know which one i would rather defend!