Liverpool Banter Archive January 03 2016

03 Jan 2016 22:22:34
One big problem we seem to be having is consistency. I think this is due for the most part in the inconsistency of our better performing players. Can and Coutinho being the prime examples. Cout's will be man if the match one game and fade to relative obscurity the next. Can is great when we're pressing or pushing forward, his energy and drive really shines but then if we are under the cosh a little he becomes prone to hot headedness and costly defensive errors like Saturday, he spent most of the match getting by passed. He isn't the only culprit by any means. This along with the fact we cannot play the same team twice due to injuries is not helping our situation. We have to bear in mind that Klopp is still working with Roger's squad and its numerous deficiencies, we knew it was a long rebuilding job. It's going to take patience.

03 Jan 2016 22:39:02
Coutinho will become more affective when he has runners in behind that will both open up space and also allow him to play defence splitting passes.

04 Jan 2016 00:04:46
Can't agree with Cout criticism. we have a lot of similar players and Klopp is giving Firmino Couts usual spot so there's an adaptation and style change that comes. Furthermore, Benteke is not able to work at the creative level of Couts. The latter has made some spectacular plays that have come to nothing with a Benteke heavy touch or missed run.

And I don't want to seem like I'm slagging Benteke, I'm not. The two just haven't found enough common ground yet.

03 Jan 2016 21:36:13
Hi ed02 I read a little earlier a post from you saying that previously you said the road with klopp would be bumpy and likely to continue as he adds kids that will be overrun in epl. Just wondering if you could expand a little on the last part. Will he start to leave senior players out to introduce a few more kids. So far he has given plenty of chances to the established players. Or do you mean the players he will look to sign will be young and not ready I. e Grucic.

{Ed002's Note - I don't think that is what I said.}

03 Jan 2016 22:10:52
Just looked at it again you said it was never going to be easy with klopp and I suspect it will get bumpier when he adds some kids who will be overrun in Epl. Would love if you could elaborate please.

{Ed002's Note - You need to cut and paste the words that I used, I can't recall what I wrote specifically.}

03 Jan 2016 20:34:19
Well on the plus side of yesterday's result, so far under Klopp we didn't lose in two consecutive games. It is no guarantee for anything of course but it may be the kick in the ass we needed before Tuesday.

03 Jan 2016 21:34:59
or maybe he is no miracle worker and needs more time so he can make the changes he need to turn us into a winning force. Give him a break, we only have one fit striker.

04 Jan 2016 00:20:51
Actually at Dortmund, klopp spend first 2 seasons to clear dead wood and beef up defence. 3rd season was defining one when lewandowski, kagawa came brought in to fire up the attack that when title won.

03 Jan 2016 19:07:24
Hi eds, spurs are a lot more consistent this season to pochs 1st season in charge which I'm guessing is down to fitness and adapting to how he wants to play.
Just wondering wat ure thoughts on our inconsistencies and weather u think the majority of players can turn a corner as over the last few games they have looked lost.

{Ed001's Note - I think most could adapt given enough time, but it does depend on which stay, as I expect a fair few to move on. In the main though, increased fitness will bring a lot better performances on its own.}

03 Jan 2016 20:07:17
I saw something the other day about how many people got moved on after Klopps first season in Dortmund. Think it was 17 players! Not saying he's going to do the same again.

03 Jan 2016 20:33:17
Another poster said he moved on 22 players in his first two seasons. I know it may not happen but it's getting more likely.

03 Jan 2016 21:18:42
That needs to happen because for some players here who just think turning up and pulling on the LFC top is enuff, need to be show the door. Klopp will improve the squad over time and with a full preseason, they'll be ready to roll, IMO.

03 Jan 2016 22:44:54
I don't think players are just turning up. I think there is a major imbalance in the team and it's affecting everyone.

03 Jan 2016 19:08:37
Any idea how much Subotic would likely cost ed? Can't find out much in terms of cost, transfermarkt value him at 9.8 million, think that's a fairly decent price. But not sure if BVB value him at that.

{Ed002's Note - I really don't want to get in to costs - and ignore anything said by Transfermarkt about player values, it is all just made up. And a currency always hels when throwing number around.}

03 Jan 2016 20:56:12
Okay ed thanks.
Would it be a case of if sahko is sold we would look to bid for subotic or are the two unrelated?
Thanks again.

{Ed002's Note - Unrelated.}

03 Jan 2016 17:14:10
Hi and A Very Happy New Year to you all. I haven't seen the posts myself but I believe there were some suggesting JK get sacked. Well it's probably someone from another site with a big wooden spoon or people have had some sort of temporary break down. Klopp will use this season to assess the squad and add where it's necessary. As Ed001 has rightly said let's just right this season off. We all want what's best for the club and we all want to win so let the man in charge do what he does best, we will get there.

03 Jan 2016 18:23:29
all the best barry,

i agree, no one can judge klopp with this bunch of players, they are not his players all he is doing is making the best job with what he has got and what he has got is not very much, he has not had a full squad to pick from yet so as ed001 has said write this season off and let's just enjoy the good moments as things to come because that's what i'm doing, I've still got a feeling that we will get in the top 4 there's no reason for it has its just a gut feeling, all we need is for sturridge to get fit and stay fit for the rest of the season and for him to hit a bit of form and for us to win a run of games, we might sign a decent player who will get us goals, if we have a player like that it will take the pressure off our defence and goalie, but again i'm just waiting for next season when klopp has had a chance to get a pre season under his belt and for him to have a few of his own players in.

03 Jan 2016 18:29:43
The thing that makes it harder to say this season is a right off is the fact that everyone is dropping points this season.

The top four this season will have the least amount of points on record I'd imagine.

Such a shame the players can't up there game because its the easiest season to get top 4 IMO.

03 Jan 2016 18:48:10
Im not sure the idea is to write the season off. So much to play for, League Cup, FA Cup, Europa League and maybe a top 4. Off course the team should always be trying to the end of the season to see what they can achieve. Who knows? To write the season off sounds like we should give up now, experiment the rest of the season and introduce a load of youngsters. i'm sure that's not in Klopp's mind. He will want to do the best he can until the end.

03 Jan 2016 19:13:37
Anyone suggesting Klopp should be sacked are tentaferes who need to be sacked themselves.

03 Jan 2016 20:30:25
All the best Mbrock99.What I'm trying to say about"Writing off"the season is JK and the fans not having to high expectations of where we can finish. Yes of course top 4 would be fantastic especially as Lavers pointed out all the other teams are dropping points and maybe even a cup. But for me it's about JK getting to know the squad and deciding who stays and who goes.

{Ed002's Note - So from the perspective of the owners - would they be happy to write iff another season? They gave consideration to the very significant cost of switching managers near the start of the season. They crave success, they want financial pay back for their vast investment, they don't want to be investing another £200M or so. Crippling debts and borrowing against the future - and when the future comes, will the fans remember the money has already been spent. Other teams change managers and get on with a reasonably smooth transition. For some reason Liverpool change managers and the fans expect vast investment and at least a couple of years of transition.}

03 Jan 2016 21:28:24
Fans always talk about writing off this season. What does that even mean, exactly? So we should just give up and stop trying to win games while top four and a trophy are not out of the question? Thank heavens Klopp doesn't share the opinion of such "fans".

03 Jan 2016 21:40:03
"Writing off" this season for me means I no longer get p-ed off if we drop points to Watford because I'm looking at the bigger picture.
I want to win every game we play but it won't ruin my weekend if we don't this season because when you change manager midseason you can't have unrealistic expectations.

03 Jan 2016 23:35:08
I think this season is a right off to some degree, but mostly in terms of judging klopp. I think we still have the potential to win a cup but I can't see us getting top four this year. We are no where near good enough at this stage. I think couts will leave in the summer and I think we can expect 50 million in today's market. I like couts but am happy to sacrifice him to re-invest in the team. A lot of the discussions and arguments appear to be on loop and repeated time after time on here. We just need to hold tight and see what and where klopp takes the team. I am very confident in the long term but am not expecting short term success. You cannot change a manager and expect instant success, as he will have to implement his regime and during this spell some players will get on board and others won't. In the end we all have to trust in klopp. Just my opinion but I happen to believe in it. YNWA.

04 Jan 2016 01:43:30
Excellent post Topboy that's exactly what I've been trying to say but I'm useless at wording my posts properly doh! Ed002 has said it's going to be a rollercoaster with JK in charge but I believe we have the right man in place.

03 Jan 2016 16:54:08
Ed2 any update on whether subotic will be arriving this window?

{Ed002's Note - No.}

03 Jan 2016 16:26:34
Hi Everyone
Like most of you I have been bitterly disappointed with performances of late, admittedly we're not good to watch at the moment. One thing I can say though, usually this time of year I'm glued to this site, Sky Sports News and the back pages for transfer gossip, this year I'm not going to be hoping for transfers.
Having sat and looked at things, having many discussions with fellow reds at the match, at the pub and in work and listening to the doom and gloom of we need a total rebuild again, I have to disagree. I think bar winning a cup we can write the season off but at the same time we can look to a bright future. I think we have a core of players that can go on and do fantastic things with this great manager. A few players out, few choice ones in and a few back from loan/ injury and I think something special will be on the horizon.
I think the current Liverpool squad including loanees have a good foundation and this is the squad in my humble opinion could develop into a great one in years to come.
Keeper:
Danny Ward
(Understudy brought in)
Defence:
Gomez
Sakho
Lovren (if continued progress under Klopp)
Clyne
Moreno
Smith
Flannagen
(Another centre back brought in)
Midfield
Can
Henderson
Lucas
Rossiter
Coutinho
Firminho
Ibe
Kent
Markovic
(One more brought in)
Strikers
Sturridge (if can cure fitness)
Ings (Klopp type player, excited for his return)
Origi
(1-2 other's depending on Sturridge)
So in summer I think we only need 3-5 players. I think Migs, Skyrtel, Toure, Milner, Allen, Lallana, Enrique, Benteke, Bogdan, Balotelli should all be moved on. They are either past best or it hasn't worked. Hopefully then we can make steady progress and in 1-2 years be established top 4 side before kicking on to complete for the big prizes.

03 Jan 2016 18:03:10
Super post.

03 Jan 2016 18:33:35
good post but i would let lucas go, he has his good points but he has so many bad points which a lot of fans don't seem to see or they just ignore because he is a good person, for the time he has been here he should have got a lot better but he has not i know injuries have not helped him but he is still giving silly free kicks away, he is not strong enough, he panics when he is closed down and he just kicks the ball forward to anyone and in many of the goals that we concede he is in the passage of play, so when he gives the free kicks away it means our team is under pressure because of where he gives the free kicks away also he is very slow and getting slower, he is a spoiler type def-mid in my mind, he does not score goals and he does not set many goals up there are better players out there imo who could come in and do a lot better.

03 Jan 2016 18:30:04
Completely agree i just think that lallana isn't as bad as what people make out. Yes we over payed like normal but under klopp he's doing well he's definitely no worse then any other number 10 at the club at the moment.

03 Jan 2016 19:15:24
I am super pumped for Danny Ings to return, is he likely to be out for the entire season or will we see him back at the end? I know his injury was very severe, so I'm under no illusions that he'll be back next week or anything.

{Ed002's Note - I guess "pumped" means different things to different people. Maybe it is a Liverpool thing as that is how I understand Steven Gerrard used to get all of those groin injuries.

I think it extremely unlikely Ings will play again this season.}

03 Jan 2016 21:41:53
Spot on, John!

03 Jan 2016 14:14:28
Alrights lads (and ladies), Ed002 mentioned further down the page that perhaps we should engage in a more civilised discussion of improvements the team needs (as opposed to rebuilding the whole team! ) .

So with that in mind, what realistic changes would you make to the team over the January transfer window if you could? Try to keep the changes minimal, affordable (as far as we know) and realistic.

1. Sirigu - confidence begins at the back and I feel like an experienced head in Sirigu would help provide a sterner base with which to build the rest of our play on. He is currently second fiddle to Trapp however I have no idea if PSG would be willing to sell in January and if they were, at what price.

An option suggested by Ed002 would be Begovic however this was more of a suggestion for the summer.

I would avoid trying to go for a young keeper like Butland/ Leno ect as we have our own young keeper who Ed001 has spoken a lot of in Ward.

2. Subotic - while Lovren has improved in recent weeks Subotic would bring some much needed experience and leadership to the backline, would link up well with Sakho and has worked with Klopp before so knows what is expected of him.

Ed002 has said that Dortmund would be willing to sell given the right offer. What this would mean for Skrtel in the short term is another question.

3. Finally I'd want a fit Sturridge for the remainder of the season. I think we can all agree that at this moment in time Benteke is not quite working and in the summer decisions will have to be made regarding our striker situation however a knee jerk reaction this window is not what is called for. Our best bet is to do our best to keep Sturridge (and to a lesser extent Origi) fit as I think other players will play better around them (particularly Coutinho) .

And that's it! I'd take the rest of the season to see what really needs to happen and what players need to be brought in/ moved on.

Interested to see what you guys would do!

What do you think Eds?

{Ed002's Note - Great job Dan - just the sort of post that really improves the site.

Sirigu is a very interesting thought if Liverpool were to look for a change in January. Several sides are looking at Sirigu. Milan, Monaco, Newcastle, Roma and Aston Villa have all declared an interest. Approaches to his agent from Lazio and Trabzonspor have been rejected and it is clear that he is not interested in a relegation fight with Aston Villa.

Dortmund will be willing to let Neven Subotic, who has been of interest to Spartak Moscow and Arsenal, leave in January. I suspect the interest of Arsenal has moved on but I would not rule out an offer being made by either Hannover or Liverpool in January. He will be avialable at a good price and he is a player who Klopp has worked with at his two previous clubs.}

03 Jan 2016 14:44:50
I still believe our weakest area is our midfield. I used to think we had no top drawer midfielders as Can is young, and Henderson was out, but I do believe the two are good, particularly hendo after watching how we play with and without him. Can is labeled as a box to box midfielder on this site, but I've rarely seen him get into the attacking box outside of set pieces. Deploying Can and Lucas in midfield, and having no one getting forward leaves us little option in the box. Joe Allen gets a lot of stick on here, and he didn't manage to score with a free header yesterday, but the fact remains that he was the only midfielder on the pitch for us that would try to get in the box.

Now, speaking of Lucas; ed, do you see Lucas moving on soon, As in this window or summer? I'm not saying I want him to, in fact I don't, but his situation seems to be reverting back to what it was when he was pushing for a move. Allen moving on, as well as Lucas would be small, but much needed sum for the club right now I imagine.

{Ed002's Note - Lucas won't be leaving in January.}

03 Jan 2016 15:11:31
Any chance of seeing one of the youth strikers on loan getting recalled since benteke is our only fit striker.

{Ed002's Note - Sturridge is effectively fit and Origi will be in a couple of weeks. Firmino and Sinclair are available.}

03 Jan 2016 15:19:14
Im happy enough not to buy any one in January, maybe try to move a few players out if possible. Some of the loans maybe who don't have a future, Enrique possibly. It depends on how much Klopp wants a player, say Subotic for instance. The clubs hand might be forced to try and do something in Jan if there is interest in him. Over all it has to be as you were for me. let's try and see how we fare at the end of the season, then Klopp should have an idea of what he needs.

{Ed002's Note - It is not that simple - paying to cancel loans and possibly needing to make space in the squad is a problem for a club with significant debt, ongoing FFP issues and a large squad.}

03 Jan 2016 15:30:20
Is Sinclair's contract negotiations hampering a call up at the moment.

{Ed002's Note - I can't imagine for one minute that he is in the thought of the manager at all right now. The club has no shortage of strikers and if some are injured the club needs to ride it out like any other side.}

03 Jan 2016 15:36:31
I'd look for one, maybe two players. A third if the right option and right price came along, but I don't feel it's a priority.

1. I'd like to see something done at the back, and for me it doesn't necessarily have to be in the middle, though the type of player I'd want would probably play that position rather than out wide: I want a strong, vocal leader, preferably weigh a little experience, who can take control of defences and get everyone on the same page when it's obvious things are spiralling out of control. Of critical importance is the ability to control and dominate set plays, which seems to be our biggest Achilles heel at this moment defensively.

2. I'd like a central midfielder who is established and has the ability to settle with smart and incisive passes. It should be noted this type of player usually isn't available until the summer. We have lots of options in the midfield, and some good potential, but I think we're missing that element which takes us from a disparate group to a unit. Couts is great going forward, but he isn't a complete midfielder. Hendo is the closest we've got, IMO, but I'm not sure he hits all the notes for me.

3. That left back spot concerns me. While I do like Moreno's graft, he has a few too many brain cramps to make me comfortable.

Really, though, I think the best this team can do is grow. We have a lot of elements who are not the complete product yet, and we have a coach who can work with them to make them better. While it would be good to see a player or two come in *if they're upgrades* I want to see what Klopp can make of this bunch, which has a lot more to give I think.

If there's a wildcard here, it's Flappy Bird. Mignolet is a wonderful shot stopper, but he's not a complete keeper by any stretch. Is that a matter of confidence, better coaching, or something he'll never find? I don't know for sure. I know as a hockey fan I watched a good goalie become the best in the world when a great coach was brought in - incidentally the best signing by the GM by a long shot, and that includes a few really good players. If Klopp and Liverpool can find a coach like that, aces. If not, then I can't see them not looking for a replacement even if nothing happens now.

Personally, I think team building is a process. It would be great for Klopp to come in and turn us into a CL team, but really, that was always going to be a longer shot. I'm quite enjoying how he's changing things, warts and all. I know it's tough to take with this club and its history, but that was history and this is today. It's a process.

03 Jan 2016 15:44:48
I agree with everything Dan has said but I also agree with TJ Red, Midfield is a weekness. We just don't have the ability to break teams down that Come to Anfiled and sit deep. It's not very often we see a really decent, defence splitting pass, nor do we see cross field, diagonal passes to switch the play. The Midfield would probably be one to be looked at in the Summer if players were moved on.

Defence also really needs to be addressed, as I've said before, set pieces, corners are still a significant weakness. Lovren has improved in recent games it's fair to say.

Both goals conceded yesterday were from aerial attacks, we have to get this sorted if progression is to be made. I've not seen much of Subotic but would be happy with Klopp's judgement on this.

03 Jan 2016 17:53:33
Ed001, would you care to share your opinion on this one?

{Ed001's Note - could we not just recall Ward and use any cash towards a forward?}

03 Jan 2016 19:25:37
Okay Ed, but can you realistically see us having 5 strikers on the books until the summer (plus firmino and a few others who can also play up top)?

{Ed002's Note - The issues surrounding bringing another striker in is that the club has Ings (out for the season but will be back); Benteke (who I appreciate the fans don't like but he certainly won't be going anywhere in January, and perhaps not in the summer unless the club find a buyer and are willing to take a significant hit; Sturridge (who as I have said all season might be worth selling on if he can prove his fitness); Origi (no idea); Firmino (again the fans are turning on him but the club vastly overpaid and it would be a serious hit to sell before he has had the chance to get his act together); Balotelli (who will go in the summer); Sinclair (seemingly going out of the way to make life tough for himself). So who would you look to add - and when?}

03 Jan 2016 22:30:04
Exactly Ed002!

03 Jan 2016 13:25:46
Just a thought but I think when we face the teams we can't break down, we might be best to hold back and try to pull them out and make the pitch bigger to play in the space. It's better than loosing atm until we get the best players suited to breaking the defensive down.

03 Jan 2016 13:39:54
That's the thing, I'd rather klopp try to get his style of play going straight away and have the up and downs we're experiencing rather than set up not to lose but in a style which we won't be adapting moving forward ( as that will just mean it takes longer to reach our goals)

03 Jan 2016 13:39:54
That's the thing, I'd rather klopp try to get his style of play going straight away and have the up and downs we're experiencing rather than set up not to lose but in a style which we won't be adapting moving forward ( as that will just mean it takes longer to reach our goals)

03 Jan 2016 12:50:17
Loved Klopp's honest remarks yesterday post match. He clearly felt the pain of real Liverpool fans. This is a man driven to succeed. As animated as Klopp was during the press interviews, the highlight for me was his facial expression when being told by a reporter that the player who fouled Moreno was the guy who ran 100 yards to score 20 seconds later. There was admiration there, you could see it in his eyes. Some great posts on here today, many calling for patience and realism. I echo those views. We have an excellent manager.

03 Jan 2016 12:00:48
I'm just wondering Eds in your opinion, will JK start to jettison some more senior players from now until the seasons end to see what younger players can make the progression to first team regulars? Is he under pressure with FFP to sell senior players and use youngsters coming through to then free up some cash to bring in his own players?

03 Jan 2016 09:31:29
Hi eds,

Quick question. Liverpool got rid of Andy Carroll at a huge loss because He didn't have the attributes to fit the style of play Liverpool wanted.

I wonder how the transfer committee And Liverpool agreed to sign benteke considering what happened with Carroll.

Benteke clearly is Not mobile enough to play the way klopp wants.

What do you think the long term future holds for christan and can you see the club investing in a striker with the current injury problems up top?

{Ed001's Note - because the manager wanted him. The long term future is up to him, it is unlikely he will go anywhere before the end of the season, so he has a few months to change minds.}

03 Jan 2016 10:15:02
Can't wait for Danny Ings to be back, got a feeling he will become the main main up front.

03 Jan 2016 10:44:26
Benteke is lucky Ings and Sturidge have been out injured, he would have been benched most of this season otherwise.

03 Jan 2016 11:20:10
The usual 'the guy who doesn't play is our saviour' stuff. Ings and Benteke played last season in two teams that were not that different from each other (Villa finished just one place above the relagation, five points more than Burnley) . Benteke played 33 games and scored 15, Ings played 37 games and scored 11.

Sturridge is a different story but he will actually benefit IMO by playing together with Benteke rather than as sole striker.

{Ed001's Note - no one benefits from playing with Benteke, as he does nothing to help them. Sturridge would play better with Ings. Your stats are crap as they fail to take into account style of play and chances created and numerous other factors.}

03 Jan 2016 11:44:16
Thanks ED001, I know we got six points out of the Last 9 but klopp looks very unhappy especially in the final third. We don't seem to penetrate. Can you see us trying to sign a striker to help the situation improve. Maybe even a loan option, I know Rossi and Jesse of Madrid Have been linked. It just seems benteke is not for klopp and leaves only origi as an out and out striker we can rely on. What are your thoughts?

{Ed001's Note - I think it is likely that it will wait until the summer, when he can offload some players to make space in the squad.}

03 Jan 2016 12:32:23
The summer is probably the right time as better players will be available. Let's make no mistake! tho we do have good players we will never achieve anything with this team as there are no leaders when Henderson isn't playing.
Also migs has to go or we need a new goalkeeping coach as he never comands his 6 yard area the way great keepers do, half the goals we concede could be stopped if migs came to claim the ball.
Personally ad get rid of moreno and use Smith his final ball and runs are better than moreno's. Hopefully flanno will challenge Clyne, a think couts will be gone, agen personal opinions ad try sell lallana, allen, benteke and sum of the loan to buy players will be gone.
With gomez, ings origi and hopefully Sturridge all fully fit for the start of next season, ad like to think that klopp would only need to ad a new keeper, centre half and a bit of a hard man in midfield in the summer and with youth we should do well next season. Like a say that's just my opinion cheers.

03 Jan 2016 13:33:17
Hard man will likely be bought from better clubs like crystal palace, west ham.

03 Jan 2016 13:33:17
Hard man will likely be bought from better clubs like crystal palace, west ham.

03 Jan 2016 07:12:34
IMO we have three main problems.

1. We lack quality across the pitch. Anyone who can't see it is in denial. A PL player needs to have a set of skills depending on his position, such as movement without the ball, controlling the ball under pressure, accurate passing, crossing, finishing, tackeling etc. A lot of our players are, at best, good in only one of these, and lack skills in other department bit time.

2. You can say, OK let's just wait few transfer windows and get quality players. But here is the second problem we have. Almost every player coming to us seem to be so much worse playing for us compared to their previous team and also keep deteriorating and losing confidence while playing for us. I mean Firmino, Lallana, Milner, let alone Benteke, they were 10 times better in their previous teams, the statistics shows it and we have all seen them play better. I mean Benteke, who I like, looks worse now even compared to the start of the season for us when he at least won the balls and headers with his back to the opposition goal. Now he just can't do anything right. Coutinho, with each game his shots at goals go further and further from target. He used to hit the target with every other shot.
Ibe, who I admit I never rated, became even worse in the last year since coming back from loan.

Somehow the name LFC, the pressure, expectations, call it whatever name you choose, play on these players mind. The only three players uneffected by this - Sturridge, Origi and Henderson are injured (two of them constantly injured it seems) .

3. Now we come to ths issue of style of play. People here talk about players who don't suit our style, too many players with the same role, etc. I agree with all that but it seems we have a bigger problem. Our style doesn't suit the quality of players we have, not just one or two players. If you are playing the short passing 'always going through the centre' style we are trying to play, when we are the team dominant in possesion, you need players who are fantastic at passing and controling the ball under pressure, very good going behind opposition players, can stop the opposition in midfield so our defence is less exposed to counter attacks, etc, skills that you can find in CIty or Arsenal or Barcelona, not with us, not since Suarez-Sterling-Sturridge were the spine of our forward game. With the players we have, you think if we came to games letting the opposition get more possesion, close our game and go for counters like West Ham or Leicester or Watford, we would be more effective. But as we are LFC everyone, including ourselves, expects us to dominate possesion and we don't have the team to do it.

Unfortunately I don't have solutions to any of the above as these are all major issues which will take years to fix.

03 Jan 2016 09:04:54
The amount of pure drivel articles such as the one above from supposed fans on this site is getting silly.

Liverpool have already shown in Klopps short tenure that they are capable of good performances. against chelsea, city, saints etc. so saying players aren't good enough is absolute bipolar rubbish.

Klopp like the players isn't perfect and will make mistakes and hopefully learn from them as players will soon learn to adapt or be moved on, not to mention the fitness levels needed to be achieved to apply Klopps style effectively, this will all take time and the sooner fans realise this the better, bad performances will happen, there is no need to call for wholesale changes after every poor game, its pathetic.

03 Jan 2016 09:09:43
I agree with your problems but I don't think it's as bad or as long term as you do.
Much of it is related to confidence and momentum. I think the best time to bring players in is when the team is confident and improving. Now is not the time except for a goalkeeper if one was available.
It will take Kloppo at least this season and a pre-season to get the players fit and build a cohesive group with a definite style of play. It won't happen this season, he will improve us and lay the foundations but he needs a pre-season.
Sadly the internationals will disrupt pre-season so that's another potential confounding factor!
I've virtually written this season off because I know we won't see any consistency from this team. I want and expect us to win every game, but I don't get frustrated if we don't anymore because as I say - this is a false season and the Players will struggle.

Next season things will be different but the pre-season disruption will probably see us underperform again to a degree.
Expect a league title in 2017/ 18 😎.

03 Jan 2016 09:15:53
You forgot about our 4th problem fanobip. The severe lack of patience and realism from the vast majority of our fans.

{Ed001's Note - that is the biggest problem of all.}

03 Jan 2016 09:38:00
We are only capable of good performances against teams that *let us* play football. That is why we are good against the big clubs, because the big clubs are not interested in trying to bully us out of the match, they just want to play football too. When we are allowed the time and space to play football, we perform well- most of the time.

However, when we play a team with inferior players, but superior physicality, they will bully us into submission, not allowing us to play. It works every single time. It's obvious how down-trodden and uninspired our team looks after they receive physical battering.

So in one sense, we do need a few new faces, but in another sense we do not. Our players at their best have the required skill, but unfortunately at the moment they completely lack that inner bulldog to knock those niggling inferior teams out of the way. They don't understand that against the likes of West Ham, they need to earn the right to play first.

So, it's not really bipolar, it's just an exposure of major shortcomings against skill-limited teams particularly well-equipped to expose those shortcomings. To solve this problem, we need players that are more all-rounded. They need to love a clean game, but they also need to know how to have fun in the mud too. Of course, that won't solve all of our other problems, such as our 'keeper, our current striker issue and arguably our defensive midfield, but it's a major improvement.

03 Jan 2016 09:58:20
87red, I don't see what is the problem with the fans. We all believe in Klopp and are happy to give him time but in the meantime we comment on what we see. Otherwise you can close this site for 12-18 months depnding on when you hope things look better and not let anyone talk until then. I hope, like everyone here, that things will improve in the future. But I still watch our games this season and I don't see what is the problem with me or others here trying to discuss what doesn't work and why.

{Ed002's Note - The problem is that the fans have returned to being hopeless flakes after any draw or loss - it is Hodgson, Dalglish and Rodgers all over again. There is no rational discussion about what could be improved - simply the same old turning on all of the players, yesterday the owners were targeted again (you remember, the people who have plunged the club in to massive debt in order to placate the fans by constantly changing players and management) whilst Klopp remains the second coming in the eyes of just about all of the fans. The posts after the game yesterday were a complete and utter embarrassment to Liverpool.}

03 Jan 2016 10:17:27
I cannot believe there are actually so called LFC fans out there calling for Klopp's head. What the f**k happened? WE lost a game but its not big deal. Its not even his team, its Brendan's. Give the man time to stamp his mark on the squad and then we can start judging him. There was no shortcut to the top of the ladder after all the money the club squandered in the past couple of seasons, it was always going to b a long and bumpy ride and these flakes like ED002 famously calls them need to get their heads sorted.

03 Jan 2016 10:30:12
I understand that Ed002 but some losses or even draws and you know what sometime even some wins are so uninspiring and listless that they just leave very little optimism for the future, at least the near future. Especially in terms of scoring goals. It is hard to accept that only three teams in the PL have scored less goals then us (and two teams as many as us) .

I don't look high to teams like City or Arsenal or even Spurs. But even when you look at a team like Everton, they may have less points then us and are awful defensively but they are at least entertaining, look like a football team when they go forward and score goals. Or the current Stoke even, very inconsistent but at the moment every other game they give a great show. With us it is more like one great performance and then 6-7 really dull games.

{Ed002's Note - Right, so a sensible discussion might be to rationalize about which forward should be replaced and consider the relative merits of the players the club is known to have been looking at, and perhaps one or two others that would suit the way the team are playing under Klopp (which is not fundamentally dissimilar to Rodgers - as I will explain below) whilst not breaking the bank. As for teams being entertaining or more attractive, you can only look to the manager or coaching staff for that.

Rodgers system was described by one player as "the six seconds of panic" which related to what has to happen when the ball is lost. Klipperty has tried to establish the well named kopflose huhn style of play at Liverpool but will continue to struggle for a little while - and perhaps he will need to adapt. A bumpy ride for a while - you will no doubt recall that was made clear when he signed.}

03 Jan 2016 01:11:01
There's also a paradigm of supposed double-standards involving Klopp and Rodgers. Apparently it's double standards to blame Rodgers for our losses, and credit Klopp for our wins. Well, no, not really.

Given our spineless, partly mediocre, bad habit-riddled team courtesy of Rodgers at the moment, results such as this against West Ham are quite the par level of what we expect in Klopp's early Liverpool journey. Everyone knew it would be a bumpy ride because of results like this. So blaming Klopp when these results come around is pretty frivolous and illogical. For example, they criticise Klopp for tactical mistakes. I'm sorry, but what amount of tactics is going to offset our glaring weakness against physical teams?! Due to injuries, a few mediocre players and a soft underbelly, this team is quite tactically limited at the moment.

They then criticise him for naively persistent team selections. Again, wrong. Klopp has often persisted with the same under-performing players, like Lallana, because he needs to assess them properly. The whole team at this present moment is on audition before next season. Klopp will not be able to make a fair judgement if he drops certain players too quickly.

When we win such games against City and Chelsea, that is way above par of what we expected, and those games 95% come down to Klopp and his staff's brilliance. 5% down to Rodgers for recruiting the fielded players. I believe some good results against Arsenal and United are without doubt highly achievable. We do well in these big games. If the crowd fires up and the team fires up, I'd be putting my money on us.

If this were an ideal world where Klopp is not making these apparently avoidable mistakes, then we'd be on top of the league right now. Klopp *needs* to make 'mistakes' so he learns more about the team- who stays, who goes, what needs fixing, what needs tinkering, what needs to be left alone.

We can not judge Klopp too much until he gets a full opportunity in the transfer market, and until he gets a full pre-season under his belt. Until then, I will keep take perpetual swipes at the players like Lallana and Benteke every time they play like fairies. All I ask of the team is a bit of ticker and a bit of fight and aggression. Then I will know that they did their absolute best.

03 Jan 2016 03:17:57
It is the morally dishonest fans that are criticizing Klopp and he will never be the reason for all our issues until the squad has his hands imprinted on it. In a perfect world, Klopp should have come in straight after the Stoke game last season but alas, that was not to be but better late than never.

His mistakes only expose the depth of BR's incompetence and the mess he made of our squad with enormous funds he was given. He has achieved a lot more in three months overall with a squad he had no control over than BR could ever do in his las fifteen months so those who want to slate him had better take a chill pill.

I don't care about the mistakes he makes because really, he can't win either way and he himself, would never have signed some of the players BR bought. I know we will be ready for the Arsenal and Utd games because unlike BR, he will get the boys ready to give them hell at Anfield instead of talking crap in the media and gift them the win afterwards. But the games where grit and fight is needed is where the players are failing him and that must be hard to swallow for him.

03 Jan 2016 05:38:04
Seriously under BR its impossible for those big wins vs man city Chelsea and Southampton. U dun win big by just tiki taka with your defenders and GK.

02 Jan 2016 23:49:23
I hope that as soon as Rafa Benitez leaves Real Madrid that we appoint Xavi Valero as goalkeeping coach. We have a world class manager with 2 of his most trusted allies but the rest of the coaching staff were already in place. If we are to give Simon Mignolet a new contract the we need him to be given more coaching about commanding his area, which I believe John Achterberg will let him down.