Liverpool Banter Archive February 04 2017

04 Feb 2017 20:42:26
I'm fairly down after that game I'm normally a positive guy I could do with a ron pick me up post.

04 Feb 2017 22:14:02
I wonder if you can a"Ron post"on percription?

04 Feb 2017 22:50:28
Farno stay with me mate.
You learn more about the team from a defeat than you do from a victory. We are building. We are in the top 4 in February after not winning for 5 games. Usually at this stage of the season we are striving to make up the gap to the top 4.
This has still been a positive season where we have made progress. If Chelsea win the league then they have thoroughly deserved it. They are more focussed, confident and resillant than us.
Champions league qualification will be a big step for us, it will allow us to attract more quality.
We're building, we're not there yet but we are getting there. On our day we can beat anyone, we just have to have more of our days.
Keep believing 😎.

{Ed025's Note - great post ron..

05 Feb 2017 00:18:17
Ron you have really cheered me up.

05 Feb 2017 00:54:04
Ron you da real MVP.

05 Feb 2017 01:09:39
Just read rons post and feel stupid after posting the most negative and frustrated post i have ever written about the side.

05 Feb 2017 02:17:17
Keep
Calm
Carry
On.

05 Feb 2017 04:39:35
Thanks Ron.

However, I am getting more and more frustrated with Can. It sounds like I'm putting the blame on him. I shouldn't, but I couldn't help it.

05 Feb 2017 07:01:40
Top man Ron that's cheered me up a bit.

The saddest thing for me about yesterday though is that I wasn't shocked by it and almost expected it, I think the fans confidence is as low as the players at the moment.

05 Feb 2017 08:30:37
We won't get champs league with this group of wet lillies, no fight, just colapse when under adversity.

05 Feb 2017 08:45:00
Haizan I know where you're coming from. It does look like our form has coincided with Can's poor form. However, let's be honest, the whole team is struggling. We don't have anyone playing well. If we did then Can's form would not influence the results.
It's so easy to say - 'we need 5 new players' or 'bring in a few youngsters' but we are right in there for Champions League qualification. Klopp has to tread carefully which is why we didn't get big January purchases.

05 Feb 2017 09:07:47
Great reality check Ron.
Yes, all defeats hurt and poor performances frustrate, but as my avatar says .

05 Feb 2017 09:46:23
klopp needs to try something different in these games. we played better against man utd because we changed the way we played. Albert Einstein exclaiming “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.

05 Feb 2017 10:01:30
Understand Ron. Whenever I feel dissappointed, I tend to find reasons. When I couldn't find them, I tend to point fingers, which most of the times it's never a right thing to do.

05 Feb 2017 10:10:23
I'll tell you what I find the most baffling and frustrating:
- we have 15 corners and don't score one, they have 1 corner and score

It's set pieces AGAIN.
Last season Klopp worked on set piece defending and sorted the majority of it out. We need to work on it again. We saw against Chelsea that the team simply switches off at set pieces. For me it's down to coaching but also we need a leader in defence. Usually it's the keeper but we know he can't be relied on. Someone needs to take responsibility for making sure everyone is disciplined and ready to defend set pieces. I would like Klopp's men to work on this first and foremost.

Second problem is we have 3 times as many shots, but the same number on target. That's worrying.

05 Feb 2017 11:59:49
Nice pick me Ron top man!

05 Feb 2017 11:15:23
Legend Ron, absolute spot on.

05 Feb 2017 18:57:37
As usual ron top post from a top man.

04 Feb 2017 17:32:44
Regarding Klopps last year at Dortmund:

I could well be wrong but I seem to remember they started struggling in the league - was that mainly down to players leaving or being tired or teams learning how to play against them.

I know it's probably too early to say and no reason for us to panic, but do you see any similarities with that last year at Dortmund and our recent struggles? Or is it a case that we need to remember that we were in all honestly probably were slightly overachieving in the first half of the season considering our squad etc.?

I fully believe Klopp will get things sorted - just needs time to build squad etc. And we are still in a good position for top four which would be a huge improvement on last years 8th place.

04 Feb 2017 19:12:14
We are under achieving against teams who are certain to get relegated. Our system has been found out months ago but Klopp has no other plans. Except the same result next week or week after. The fact that we have half of bang average players plus pure one dijrvsinal dunning football makes it easier for our downfall.

04 Feb 2017 19:22:30
Jim, depends on who you be I can't really say what really happened there as no one really knows. As for him right now, something REALLY needs to change and if players need to be benched just to get a spark in the team, so be it. Lallan has gone back to being Johan Cruyff again, Can has been shocking for a month now yet he plays, Wiji had a good game last time and scored YET he didn't play today, the lot. If he doesn't sort it out this season, top 4 will be a pipe dream and massively disappointed judging by the way we started the first 4 months of the season.

04 Feb 2017 19:34:58
Hull are hardly relegation certainties Harry. They have been brilliant under Silva.

Having said that, it is alarming that Klopp now looks set for his 3rd straight season without a trophy or a decent league position.

Ed002 warned us all he was having a bit of a mid-management career crisis! He has become so obsessed with players who run a lot, that he might have lost sight of how important it is to have a few players who have a little composure who don't leave their position. We dominate every team we play because we are stronger and fitter than they are. But if we are spending so much time training on fitness that we cannot work on tactics and breaking teams down then perhaps Klopp needs to find a balance.

He has been figured out to some extent. However the players seem to be lacking Hunger and drive in the last month. Teams can set up to counter us, but if we play to the max, that would be irrelevant as we'd win anyway.

I do think we are carrying a handful of average players though. I don't think we need a complete overhaul in the summertime, but we could do with better full backs, a new centre back, and a replacement for Sturridge and Can.

04 Feb 2017 19:36:10
For me, I think its a bit of both. Teams clearly have figured out how to beat us, if you park the bus and have 8 or 9 men in the box then any top side can struggle. The sad part is, apart from the top 5 teams, pretty much every team will do this in the PL. I don't feel this is something new for us though, Liverpool have always had this problem, the "weaker" teams always give us trouble.

With that being said, I think we clearly did over achieve in the first half of the season. Everything went right for us. Now it is going poorly. I was hoping the reintroduction of Mane would help stretch teams again and create spaces, and while the Africa Cup of Nations will have had a bearing on this, he won't be as sharp and will be tired, I fear we need change up our game slightly against teams like Hull, Like Swansea, Like Burnley to get results we need. We will always have the same problems though, if we can't improve our defence and goalkeeper situation, and those issues have been well documented, we all know where we need to strengthen. I think all this is also down to the fact that a few of our star players just aren't at the races. Coutinho, Firmino, Lallana just aren't at the same level they were before Christmas. I don't know what we can do to get back to how we were before christmas, I don't know if it is a confidence issue or lack of fitness or just that their accuracy has gone. I hope with the lack of games and once CL/ Europa kicks back in that we will start reaping the benefits.

I believe Klopp will get it right and he will bring us success, I don't think now is the time to panic or ask for a change. We will get there, but we need understand, we have probably the weakest team in the top 6. We need be together as one.

YNWA.

04 Feb 2017 20:22:50
I don't think the system has been found out as such. We have pretty much stopped the press altogether for some reason in favour of building possession. I get the feeling Klopp has done this to try and stop conceding. Yet we still an not defend for toffee. I honestly will be gobsmacked if Migs Lovren and Clyne are at LFC next year and to some extent Milner. We can not rey on an of them to actually help keep a clean sheet and sadly in the case of the fullbacs, a decent 1st time troubling delivery into the box.
We aren't pressing when we need to, mainly because I believe the players up top don't trust the ability of the defenseif the press fails, and quite franly I don't blame them. We were doing well at first pressing but conceding many goals, then teams just sat back and countered, the problem was that our defense couldn't stop basic 3v1 and 2v1 counters. There's only so much the attack can bal you out, especially with the likes of Bobby, Mane, Hendo and Lallana putting in HUGE shifts.
I mentioned previously we had handed Chelsea the title on a plate and this was more than a''DIP'' in form. The confidence and team ethic has been shot to pieces. It's no surprise that you are seeing Lovren being openly berated ont he pitch by team mates, mane slepping the hands by his sides when Clyne once again puts in a woeful cross or delays his overlap, or cuts in and attempt a right footed cut back straight to the centeback. Can too is being heavily criticised on the field.

From my point of view we have a title winning attack, who have become fed up with a relegation fodder defense and it's showing in the cohesion, team performances and camaraderie.

04 Feb 2017 20:34:18
We've gone backwards and if teams really have figured out how to defend against us then we have to change.
We have to become solid at the back. We have to learn to defend like teams like Hull or Saints. They are not more talented than us, but they are more organised. This is something the managers and coaches need to work on starting right now.

We build from a solid defence.

04 Feb 2017 21:03:00
Well that was pretty awful. Despite having what is probably our best line up other than gini for can. Don't understand that selection Lucas was for injuries apparently. We really need another plan. We're better against the bigger teams because they try and play and we get spaces. We continue to struggle to break down teams. And we continue to get ran through when we lose the ball far to easily. It's happening over and over. I think a lot of it is a mental thing. Because at times in games and earlier in the season when we knock the ball about it's crisp and confident and we look superb. As soon as we concede or the pressure is on some of the boys crumble like cheap biscuits miss placed short passes a flap or bad kick from migs and it spreads throughout and and everyone seems to lose all composure. I thought we would turn it around here after the Chelsea performance but we were terrible. Always hopeful but starting to worry. YNWA.

04 Feb 2017 21:03:47
Chileanred what u going to press mate? there's nothing to press coz mid table teams are happy to give us 80% of possession and just shut the shop and wait for the final whistle . u can't blame everything on defence when our manger has set us attacking from midfield to full backs infact our defenders have got no protection at all like other top sides.

04 Feb 2017 20:55:52
Ron starting right now? Klopp should have improved the awful defense he inherited. I'm not saying fix as that will create an overload on this site but he should have improved that defense. I honestly think that our current defense is worst than its ever been. That's a huge fail from the manager and no excuses should be accepted.

04 Feb 2017 21:32:25
We should have spent £25m on the best keeper we could find last summer instead of spending it on Wijnaldum. Our team has such glaring defficiencies in that position that I fund it difficult to believe the 'experts' running the club can't see it.

04 Feb 2017 21:40:26
All i know is when relegation threatened clubs see Liverpool next on the fixture list they think great " 3 easy points ". The player spineless and gutless and all of the bar 1 or 2 should never wear a Liverpool shirt again. Klopp should take some of the blame as he has not found a way to stop the rot. Liverpool fc the team that keeps giving (3 pts away)

04 Feb 2017 21:54:41
I see more similarities wirh klopps first 2 years at dortmund. Learning the style, building the team etc etc.

04 Feb 2017 22:00:34
You press on the triggers. clearly teams aren't giving 80% posession. When I say triggers I mean poor touches, goal kicks, throw ins, You try and smother the middle isolate the ball to one player in a wide position and force th posession surrender or a long ball, or in i back high up. Teams aren't throwing 10 men behind the ball against us an inviting pressure. they're simply being disciplined.
However we have had multiple chances that clyne and milner waste by not putting in good or 1st time crosses. We the have had the proble that Can Gigi and to n extent today Lallana won't go forward as often to join the attacks.

We have been found wanting constantly at set pieces and counters hich I;m sorry to say most of those faults have ben solely down to poor defensive marking, particularly by lovren and Clyne, as well as Migs not being commanding enough.

The defense has plenty of protection, that's PRCISELY WHY Lallana previously put in bigger shifts and Hendo and Firmino, so the ball got nowhere enar them, but they can't do it week in week out. Hendo is there protecting them too. Mane and Lallana in particularly have usully worked their socks off and yet we still concede. Our full backs are getting forward but I wouldn't say they are effectively attacking.

04 Feb 2017 22:44:34
Mcgoveb,
We can ring our hands and mourn past mistakes, or we can look to how we can move forward.
You don't get anywhere by dwelling on the past, you've got to learn the lessons and make a change.

05 Feb 2017 02:52:48
For what Klopp has spent net (after outgoings) on the team since he came and the players he has brought to the club, I'd say have been really good buys, all value for the money spent.
All are at a good age and Karius has potential.
TheRe are pre Klopp era signings that he has chosen to work with some of whom have caused us huge frustrations in previous seasons and who have been given every chance to prove themselves but their time now is surely up.
My suggestions are.
Ring Rodgers at Celtic and swap Migs for Gordon.
Ring fat scam and swap SaKho for Lovren.
Let Klopp use his german no us to sign jung for right back and Rodriguez at left back.

Then we have a 1st team capable of challenging.

05 Feb 2017 09:26:15
I don't think teams have found out how to play against us. It is just that too many players are not performing. Firmino and Coutinho are both world class but right now they just cannot shoot straight for some reason. Lallana is struggling and Mane is too. In the midfield, Hendo is now even below mediocre. Sturridge and Origi, let's not even go there. Point is that when players lose confidence and start playing like crap, no system in the world will work. I really think Hendo needs to be out. Maybe play Milner and Wijnaldum in the CM role and hope for the best. Klopp has said that players need to be smart. Our players unfortunately are anything but, right now. I just don't understand running at full speed at the opposition to tackle. The other player just has to move on the side and go past you and with your mad speed rush, there is no way you will be able to slow down, turn back and catch him. But still all the midfielders keep doing this. We are now playing many more crosses in but 90% of the time, there is only one player in the box. We get 100 corners in a game and we all know that we will have 100% success rate of not converting them. Its too early to complain about Klopp but I think that he needs to realize that some of these players are just not cut-out for a top tier EPL team.

{Ed001's Note - what on earth? The last game against Chelsea everyone was raving about Henderson, now you want him out? Why him? He is a playmaker in need of players to provide him some options to play the ball too. Against Chelsea the players were up for it, provided movement and he was able to pick them out. Against Hull, the usual complacency struck and the players returned to being statues, so there was nothing for him to pick out. He is the one of the very few players we have that does not deserve to be dropped.}

05 Feb 2017 10:58:07
Spot on ed; absolute joke to have a go at Hendo. He is one of the players who IS performing and does seem to care!
Also, how is Mane off form? After what, 1 and a quarter games?!
And playing Milner in mid? Based on what? Hasn't played there all season and with all due respect to him, is poor playing there now. LB or out of the team, not replacing Hendo.
Absolutely crazy, knee jerk response!

06 Feb 2017 09:24:58
Ed001. Hendo is good in one game and then really bad in 5. He does not have the ability to pick long range passes and his short passing game is only based on side or back passes. He cannot dribble past a player. He cannot hold on to the ball (unlike Milner and Wijnaldum who can at least hold on to it) . His tackling is again average. All he brings to the team is some energetic running. In such a critical position, you need better quality.

{Ed001's Note - nonsense, he has never had five really bad games in a row since his first season at the club. You are clearly just a hater because he doesn't do the flashy dribbles. Hold onto the ball? Wtf? Do you even know what that means? No one should be holding on to the ball in our system! We need better quality analysis than this, not a better quality player, someone who understands a player's role before they criticise him based on nonsense.}

06 Feb 2017 13:42:34
Ed001, I am not a hater at all. I would not want anything more but Hendo to succeed but unfortunately he just does not have enough quality. Let me try to address each point a bit less emotionally. Dribbles: No one said he should do flashy dribbles but he should have the ability to get past players when needed. Unfortunately, as soon as a defending player comes in front, it is a back pass or a side pass. Holding the Ball: Ability to hold on to the ball means that when you are pressed, you can retain the ball or draw a foul or in other words you don't lose the ball. If a CM should not have that ability then I think we are talking about different sports here. Let me agree that I don't understand the player's role, can you kindly tell me what is he suppose to do in his current role. I am not saying that getting rid of Hendo is the solution for all our problems. I am just saying that he does not have the same quality of the midfielders available to other top 6 teams. If we want to challenge we need to change a few players and he is one of them.

{Ed001's Note - you do not dribble past a player in the deep role that he is in, please understand his role before claiming he can't do something. He is not in a position to do that, so there is no way of knowing whether he can do so or not.

Why would you want a player to hold the ball, when our entire game plan is based around moving it quickly? Again try and understand the game rather than talking through ignorance. His role is to move it quickly, as should all the rest. It is not his fault that he is surrounded by players who are failing to enact their instructions while he is still doing so.

Hendo is fine, as has been shown time and again, this is just you failing to understand what he is in the team to do and what the team around him is meant to be doing.}

04 Feb 2017 17:06:45
Hi all

And that's all I've got to say about that.

04 Feb 2017 17:21:05
Good evening mate 🤝.

04 Feb 2017 14:06:04
Today's lineup was fairly predictable, and I guess is Klopp's idea of our best 11. For me i would prefer the mobility of Wini over Can, but maybe Can will show his colours today.

04 Feb 2017 14:34:26
Klopp seems to have a serious blind spot when it comes to can. Maybe it's because he's a fellow German? Who knows but it baffles me.

04 Feb 2017 16:45:43
Can has shown his colors today - he was anonymous in both attack and defence and influenced nothing at all in our play. He is not the only one guilty but he has been one of the most consistently poor players this season.

04 Feb 2017 17:08:47
Sorry but Can is terrible. End of.

04 Feb 2017 19:27:29
Can should never have started that game today especially in place of Wij, who had a great game vs Chelsea. Awful decision.

04 Feb 2017 13:44:50
Holy damn, Hazard surely just scored goal of the season.

04 Feb 2017 19:29:27
Well, it would have helped if Koscielny had not turned his back and back-pedalled all the way into his own goal thereby, escorting Hazard into a position to score.

04 Feb 2017 13:39:59
At last Klopp is wising up to the fact that we need to manage games butter as Chelsea do. No Kamikaze football. Rather exciting football peppered with Italian mentality (ie protecting a lead) . Pleased to hear that.

04 Feb 2017 13:55:24
Confused about where Klopp has said this. Kamikaze football, what utter BS.

Klopp plays pass and move football and expects it at a very high tempo along with making sure the ball gets taken from the opposition ASAP.

Very surprised Conte has improved Chelsea on one massive scale compared to last season. Had my doubts about him. Tactics and 3 at the back he used at Juventus seems to fit in very well with the squad he has.

I would cringe if Klopp decided to revert to 3 at the back on a permanent basis when we simply do not have the wing backs or CB's adequate to make that system work.

04 Feb 2017 14:48:12
People forget that this is largely the same Chelsea side that won the league 2 seasons ago. I don't think conte is some miracle worker, in fact I think it says a hell of a lot more about the players considering where they finished last season and where they are now.

04 Feb 2017 17:01:37
Alonso Kante Luiz Pedro moses? None of the 2 seasons ago.

04 Feb 2017 19:37:39
Northern, that is not Lfc hopeful's point. The majority of Chelsea's team especially the key players, were there two years ago when they won the PL. They literally stopped playing for Mou last season hence, they had a bad season cos they seemed to be interested in getting him sacked than anything else.

That does not change the fact that they were a vry good team and the squad is pretty much intact. Now, they have a manager hey like and trust and are ready to run thru a wall for. That makes a big difference and it's not like they weren't talented to begin with.

04 Feb 2017 11:57:12
Is there any truth in the roumors that Microsoft are planning to sponsor lfc or accuire a hefty percentage of our club.
I was told that they are front runners to take over or replace standard charter as our sponsor.
They also want naming rights to the stadium along lines of Microsoft anfield stadium.
Any news on this would be appreciated.

{Ed002's Note - No.}

04 Feb 2017 12:25:53
Thanks edd2.

04 Feb 2017 11:47:16
Defenders Liverpool have signed since FSG bought the club:

Sebastian Coates, Jose Enrique, Mamadou Sakho, Tiago Ilori, Kolo Toure, Alberto Moreno, Dejan Lovren, Nathaniel Nathaniel Clyne, Joe Gomez, Ragnar Klavan, Joel Matip and the loan signings of Aly Cissokho, Steven Caulker and Javier Manquillo.

Just looking at the above list, no wonder Liverpool have a defence which is not up to scratch. 14 defenders since the 2011/ 12 season and only 6 remain pending Sakho's exit this coming summer.

Matip has been a breath of fresh air. The only other players who can really be classified as a 'success' are Sakho but ended up digging a hole for himself and Toure. Gomez has been limited due to injuries so we will have to see how things go for him pending if he can stay fit.

Lovren I am afraid is no better than what we had, he has improved some aspects of his game but has been shown up time and time again.

Other than that, we have either overpaid for players and made pointless money wasting loans. Hopefully going forward we sign defenders with the aim of improving the squad, not just add players to fill gaps.

04 Feb 2017 12:05:39
People really have a short memory of sakho. He was as shaky as they come, silly fouls, lunges and miss kicks.

04 Feb 2017 12:17:55
More evidence of really poor scouting.

04 Feb 2017 12:19:22
I would agree with that Benny. He's no Van Dijk😉😉!

04 Feb 2017 12:20:01
I would rather have Sakho lining up next to Matip compared to Lovren. That is just my opinion of course. Pity Sakho could not grow up and face the mistakes he made putting the club into disrepute after the club had fully backed him with the drug ban saga.

Lovren is as shaky and mistake driven as they come.

{Ed025's Note - lovren is better than klaven though max..mind you thats not saying much mate..

04 Feb 2017 12:25:53
Got to disagree with that view benny, off the field issues aside, and looking past the fact he moves awkwardly but is not actually awkward he was by a long way our strongest cb last year. the potential partnership of himself and Matip could have been formidable but sadly because of his own actions it won't be. This doesn't take away from his ability though our best cb after Matip and would have been his ideal partner. Your assessment of him seems ridicukous, shaky as they come, he held our threadbare defence together and played with Moreno beside him and Mingo behind him it wasnt him who looked shaky.

04 Feb 2017 12:57:36
100% agree with you Benny. For everything good sakho would do he'd then have a brain fart and do something stupid. I know ed 01 and others have better reading of players than me but I could never see how people thought he was so brilliant. Good yes but brilliant no. Every time he had the ball at the back and was passing out I'd be nervous as hell even though most people said he was the best passing defender we had, but you know what they say- opinions are like arses, everyone has one and this is mine.

04 Feb 2017 12:30:12
Klavan did not cost an arm and leg though. At the price Lovren came in at he should be above and beyond Klavan which is not the case. Not Lovren's fault for the club signing him at an over inflated price but surely Klavan next to Matip would make no difference compared to Lovren next to Matip.

The only solution is to finally start getting things right in the transfer market.

04 Feb 2017 12:30:12
Klavan did not cost an arm and leg though. At the price Lovren came in at he should be above and beyond Klavan which is not the case. Not Lovren's fault for the club signing him at an over inflated price but surely Klavan next to Matip would make no difference compared to Lovren next to Matip.

The only solution is to finally start getting things right in the transfer market.

04 Feb 2017 14:12:51
Sakho was like bambi on ice. He improved a lot under klopp like so many of the squad, but he was always dodgy at the back.

04 Feb 2017 14:22:08
So you are suggesting to buy a few more and cross the 20 number mark? We need defenders but we also need to know how hot to defend. This team as a whole cannot defend.

04 Feb 2017 14:12:40
Largely bargain basement though, that's the real reason.

04 Feb 2017 19:40:29
OP, FSG don't select the players or defenders that get signed. managers do so if they are poor, the managers are your prob, not FSG. Just saying.

04 Feb 2017 09:58:42
Whats the opinions on best player for LFC so far this season.

Reckon Mane will take at the end. What a signing he has been. Worth every penny.

{Ed025's Note - very much so max..

04 Feb 2017 10:09:56
Firmino up there too, the work this guy puts in goes unnoticed. Anywhere and everywhere on the pitch. If I can some up Firmino in two words it would be 'team player'.

04 Feb 2017 10:32:48
Partly agree on Firmino, but I would prefer him to be 'clinical finisher'.

04 Feb 2017 12:19:56
The away fans 👍.

04 Feb 2017 13:04:12
Definately agree with Mane, Matip a close second for me.