Liverpool Banter Archive May 04 2017

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04 May 2017 21:40:08
Hi ed1 prob not going to be liked for this lol but here goes i've been having a debate lately about fergie the ex man utd manager i personally think he is over rated for what he achieved and all this he's the greatest british manager ever etc just doesn't sit with me. Why do you think he had so much dominance in the league for so long what were his strenghts and weaknesses i would say his europe success was a major weakness tbh but success is 2 champ leagues in 26 years apparently. i was born in 83 in aberdeen so don't recall his europe win with the dons but i beleive this was at a time when aberdeen had lots of money a bit like man u as when he was scotland manager he was unsuccessful what's your thoughts on fergie and how successful / good was he actually?

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{Ed001's Note - he certainly isn't the greatest British manager ever, Paisley was. So, if someone rates him as that, then they over rate him. However he was an excellent manager, though a lot of his success was rooted in bullying officials.

It started in Scotland, when he would instruct his players to intimidate officials in order to get decisions to go the way of his team. His excuse there was that he needed to do something to even up the advantage that the Old Firm otherwise had of being favoured by the refs. In England, it just added to the advantage of being in charge of the big team that get the balance of decisions going their way.

His strengths were his man management, he did not treat all players the same, he knew when to give a player leeway and when to be on his back. His treatment of Cantona, who would be allowed to get away with almost anything, because Fergie knew he would put in the effort on the training ground and pitch anyway. He was careful to try and protect the team and it made them grateful to him, which made them try harder.

He also was not afraid to delegate to the right people. Fergie was not a hands on coach, he would have a number 2 who ran the training, which freed him up for other things.

The main weaknesses were tactically he could be done, he suffered in Europe because it was more tactical. He was good, but not top class, which is not enough in Europe most of the time. You need to be top class when you get to the final stages.

The other weakness was his dictatorship turned sour in a lot of ways, costing the club a lot of promising youth players who would not sign for his son's agency.

To be honest, he had so much more money than the competition for huge portions of his reign that it is difficult to really judge him. Even the team of 'kids' was far from a youth team. It had a core of expensive signings with a few kids sprinkled in. For the time it was a hugely expensive squad he assembled, though it does not look it now. Money still has to be spent well to be an advantage though, so that has to go down as a strength, he spent well, in the early days.}

04 May 2017 22:39:02
For me he's one of the greatest manager of all time. The amount of time he spent at the highest level and continued winning trophies for so long its unbelievable. don't forget he continued building United squad/ teams w/ o struggling in epl which is amazing.

{Ed025's Note - im with you kopite..

05 May 2017 05:10:07
He won the league a few times in the end with a terrible team of players (imo) that as individuals you would really want but somehow always got over the line.

{Ed001's Note - his longevity alone, in terms of continuing to win trophies, make him one of the greatest. However, no one can compare to Paisley's incredible record and the way his team dominated the whole of European football in a way no team before or since has.

However, Fergie is up there with Busby and Clough etc as arguably the second best ever.

Realised I missed a couple of his strengths out above. He was ruthless with those who needed to go, for whatever reason, unlike say Shanks, who was too loyal. It was only at the end of his reign that he stuck with players who were not good enough.

Also his decisive substitutions were a big part of his success. Unlike many other managers, he was always willing to make changes to go for a win. Or, if he had been done tactically by the opponent, he would look to make changes to wrest control of the game from the opposition. Many managers will just have their players drop deeper and try not to lose by too much but Fergie ALWAYS wanted the win.}

05 May 2017 07:07:25
ED001.

I'm so pleased to read your post regarding Fergie. I gave similar debates with a group of pals that support ManU.

They just can't admit, have the sense, do not know their clubs history or are just too young to realise that Fergie spent huge in his early days to secure his first league title, remember it took him from 86 to 92 to achieve this!

Martin Edwards funded Fergie for big money named signings from 91 onwards, knowing that the riches of the premier league were just around the corner and of course the club first floated on the stock exchange in 91 to help find the new stadium and invest in the team. It really Dora's make me laugh then they slate city and Chelsea for busing the league lol.

I remember going to old Trafford away in the early days and seeing "Fergie out " banners around the stadium. The investment given to him by Edwards and the money jnjected into the club from the first floatation certainly saved his arse.

{Ed001's Note - you have to congratulate Edwards for having the sense to realise that Fergie needed backing rather than replacing. Also Fergie has to be congratulated for not taking the easy way out and placating the players there when he arrived. He saw the problems and worked to fix them.}

05 May 2017 07:39:43
Edwards also realised that football was about to embark on a totally new era and that the whole dynamics and principles of football were about to change. Unfortunately our board stoold still and have paid the price big time in doing so - in my opinion.

My point regarding Ferguson still stands and that he did not build his teams on a shoe string budget.

Could you imagine if Rupert Murdoch’s British Sky Broadcasting corporation's bid to take over United was successful! Being blocked by UK competition
authorities was s good thing in my opinion!

{Ed001's Note - agreed.}

05 May 2017 08:20:22
Agreed, he was lucky to have Edwards and at a time when no other club in england could foresee the huge riches ahead. Makes everyone else look daft really with hindsight being 20/ 20 and all. Still a quality man manager and the team he had towards the end had no right to win anything really. Yet they did.
He built at least two quality teams and would be regarded higher if a) he'd left the team in a decent state and b) dominated in Europe more. Both of these Shanks did and thus is no 1.
Not bias tho. 😉.

{Ed001's Note - you mean Paisley surely?}

05 May 2017 08:22:08
Where would united's present manager fit into the discussion?

I know he's not British but love him or hate him (hate) his record speaks for itself.

He's come a long way from when he was Bobby Robsons translated at Barca.

I don't remember much about Shanklys time only really the shock of the resignation but I remember Bob taking over and the magical times enjoyed on our clubs rise to domestic and European dominance.

Compare who you want ever from world football against Bob Paisley and in my book Bob wins, hands down.

Modesty, dignity and decency are words you can't associate with Fergie, Clough or Jose but they describe Bob Paisley down to the ground.

{Ed025's Note - yeah paisley was very good, not the best ever though imo but a very nice guy and football man, liverpool supporters have this thing that every manager has been the best manager ever and that every liverpool player is the best player in the world, add to that your supporters are the best in the world and i think you know where im going with this...there is nothing wrong with it i suppose though dermot..

05 May 2017 11:03:00
Ed where would you rate Brian Clough, Ron Saunders, and Bobby Robson who were managing at the same sort of time as Paisley, and each having a measure of success?

{Ed001's Note - I love Bobby Robson but he was defo next tier down, as was Clough. Not so sure about Saunders, I would put him a tier down from them.}

05 May 2017 10:48:35
at the very top with some quality players for absolute years yet only won 2 European cups. Not enough for the players and teams he had.

05 May 2017 10:49:13
This goes beyond rivalry, you acknowledge and respect those who transcend the game and Fergie did that. I didn't always like him but he's, by a long way, the best manager in my era as a fan.

05 May 2017 08:44:47
The way Paisley dominated Europe alone pits this argument to bed. As Ed001 correctly pointed out.

{Ed025's Note - it was a knockout then nicky and anyone could win it on their day, plus there were not many teams in it mate..

05 May 2017 09:45:51
Agree ed25 paisley was great no doubt but can't be compared to fergie tho. We are talking abt 25 yrs of success and the situation was completely different. Fergie had to build a side who hadn't won a league for 26 yrs.

{Ed025's Note - no argument from me there kopite..

06 May 2017 01:15:59
Thanks for the reply Ed. (I think)

If not Bob Paisley?
Who do you think was the best ever?

{Ed007's Note - Jock Stein.}

06 May 2017 23:54:30
Thanks for reply ed.

The Lisbon Lions.
Now that will never be seen again.

The great Jock Stein is a legendry figure in his own right.
He won 8 or 9 titles in a row and the European cup with the Lions.

He also spotted and guided a young Kenny Dalglish who was no 8 at the Bhoys and was made captain as well I think.

The main difference between Stein and Paisley was Stein went into international management whereas Paisley didn't.

Celtic are a huge club here in Ireland and I may get in trouble for saying this but for me Paisley was the best bar none.

I'm sure you may not agree.

{Ed007's Note - I'll admit my bias, for obvious reasons but if I was a Liverpool fan I'd probably agree with you about Paisley.

04 May 2017 20:06:43
Ed01 I was listening to a podcast, a bunch of guys that do stats on every game pretty interesting. One stat stood out for me. Wijnaldum has the least amount of touches on average when playing teams outside the top six. However against the top six teams he touches the ball 20 more times on average. Against Watford he touched the ball 40 times, the least of any player that played more than 60 minutes. I know it's stats but what is your opinion on Gini? He does seem to go missing but I obviously can't see runs off the ball, defence positioning etc. What is everyone's opinion on Gini so far? I love him sometimes and other times I forget he is on the pitch.

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{Ed001's Note - I think he is growing into the team. The amount of touches is irrelevant, against the lesser sides we have more space and control of the ball, so the ball tends to end up with the ball carriers and players while he makes forward runs to create space for them to work. Whereas he sits deeper against the top six, so gets more of the ball, rather than doing the unselfish work of making space and dragging people out of position.

To be honest, the touch map, heat map and touches of the ball stats are pretty much irrelevant.}

04 May 2017 21:12:25
Thanks Edd, I know stats like those, on its own is irrelevant, just found it interesting. Gini is not the type of player every fan appreciates. his one touch passing and strength on the ball is very important to how we play. Once again thanks for your response, its always good to get different opinions if you're willing to learn.

{Ed001's Note - that is what I like about him, he doesn't tend to dwell on the ball, he is always looking to move it on quickly. If you move the ball quickly, you don't have to have pace to open up defences. I think it was Paisley that used to say to let the ball do the running.}

04 May 2017 22:28:34
I think that Gini will improve a lot next season, I get the impression that he needs to give the ball to a better team mate, next season, he will have more confidence . he will turn out to be a really good player for us .

04 May 2017 23:06:18
I commented a while back when asked for player of the season that I can understand Mane and Couts getting the nod, but that a player like Gini is only missed when he's out, much like Hendo. He'd be one of the first players on the sheet for me. Wasn't overly impressed with his first half dozen games or so, but he's been so consistent since then.

05 May 2017 09:05:38
Wijnaldum needs to add goals to his names to be called a top top CM.

05 May 2017 10:51:11
Could someone explain what is his role in Klopp's system. Apparently my understanding is limited and any opinions would be highly appreciated.

05 May 2017 10:58:06
I really like Gini, I think he's going to be a big players for us next season, but I do think he steps off the gas against the 'lesser' teams, I've noticed it a few times that he seems a bit sluggish against them, first touch is sloppy and he always wants to shift the ball and responsibility onto someone else. Hopefully its just a case of finding his feet and his place in the team and it won't happen as much next season.

05 May 2017 11:15:24
Would you say he's justified the price we payed for him? And has he exceeded your expectations?

05 May 2017 20:00:38
Harry, Gini's role will not flash on MOTD highlight reels BUT to only those who watch him closely, will see all the dirty work and good work he does on and off the ball.

His role is to make sure we keep possession of the ball in midfield and keep it moving. He repertoire is the same as Joe Allen's BUT more versatile as he is MUCH better than Allen.

Wij can play the B2B role easily as that was his role at PSV and Newcastle and with Holland at the last WC in Brazil. He has shown that he can score and assist (5 goals and 6/ 7 assists in all competitions) as well as get forward to support the attack, all the thinks Allen could never do here. It is a new role for him but he is adapting well and growing into the position. The hope is that he gets better.

04 May 2017 16:19:39
Rhian Brewster has just scored two goals for the England under 17s, its in the Euro championship in Croatia, he took them well, more so the second, bet he bags more, I think they get at least 3 games, the lad from Man City looks really good .

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04 May 2017 15:01:39
I really hope we keep sturridge this summer. I know his injuries are an issue but he still is one of the best strikers in the world never mind the league when fit. He came off the bench against watford and nearly scored minutes after coming on only for a great save from gomes. Give him one more season with a full pre season and I am sure he can be firing again. He went to the euros last year and impressed and came back injured. Should consider international retirement I think.

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04 May 2017 16:02:44
You have to put sentiment aside and look at it objectively
If we keep him it may mean no replacement will arrive and if (as is highly likely due to his recent injury record) Sturridge misses half the season or more then we will be short upfront
I do feel for the lad but footballers must be able to play.

04 May 2017 18:11:01
Looking highly unlikely. Excellent player and one of my fav at the club. We are hard core runners and our trainings are highly intense. Sturridge wouldn't survive!

04 May 2017 19:39:20
I agree it's time to put sentiment aside in regards of Sturridge. If we want to take that next step forward we need to be a bit more cut throat and get rid of unreliable players. I like Sturridge, I think he would propel us to the next level if he was fit at least half of a season but he's not. And the only reason he has stayed fit for several months this season is because he never plays. We need another forward. A forward that can cover out wide and up front. In order to get a top player we need to move players like studge on. I think ings should probably go out on loan too. That would leave us with origi and firmino as our central strikers. We would need one more that can play that role, and it has to be a player better than what we have already. I just think it's best for both parties if Sturridge searched for pastures new, I hope Klopp agrees.

04 May 2017 20:42:02
I think that Sturridge will stay and I think he has a huge role to play next year.

He'd be mad to go as he is on great money at us.

He has champions league football to look forward to.

He's great with the younger lads comeing through.

04 May 2017 23:04:14
Nothing would make me happier than to see Sturridge have an injury free season. Even without the pace of previous years he'd still get at least 20 goals a season if he stayed injury free. But it won't happen, we need a top class striker that won't be injured for half the season. Genuinely feel for the lad though. Top bloke as well according to the eds.

05 May 2017 08:21:30
You only have to look at how many games he's missed in the past two years. I love Sturidge as much as the next guy but if west ham are willing to pay 30-40 million for someone who is injured 80% of the season i would take that and invest in someone who is some more reliable.

05 May 2017 11:12:32
Spot on, Kman92. It is high time people stop talking about a player that no longer exists. The Studge that was tearing it up 3-4 years ago is nothing but a distant memory. The one we have now unfortunately will never be the one we knew and loved before.

Time to put sentiment to the side and cut our losses for the sake of the player and the club. Talent is worth nothing if you cannot be on the pitch to show it on a consistent basis. Sad but true.

We need a forward who can paly week in, week out and contribute, not one who could get injured after running laps on the training pitch. He imply cannot be relied on to stay fit hence, you can't built a team or prepare for a game with him in mind as you don't know what will happen with him in training the day before the game. Studge won't be here next season and I have been at peace with that since last year. Time for everyone to move on.

05 May 2017 11:18:28
best ability is availability. and unfortunately Sturridge has not been consistently available for a long period of time.

I think that most of us would love a fit and firing Sturridge. That goal in the Europa League final is evidence of what he can do for us. So I, like I am sure many of us, hope like hell he can get his body right and stay with us.

It may be something that he needs a year or two to sort out. But like a 20 yr old academy grad, can we hang around that long to wait and see?

05 May 2017 19:56:06
Sturridge needs a new challenge and we need a 20 goal striker who is not injured for half the games in a season. He will be fondly remembered but its time to cut our losses which let's be fair have been considerable when taking account of the games he has missed over the years.

I really don't know who we will target but i hope he will not be a second tier or promising player but someone that adds instant quality to our front line. We will have ings as back up next season, but he will need time to regain fitness and form and origi needs time to fully learn his trade so should not have the pressure of leading the line all season.

05 May 2017 19:57:22
So what happens to Firmino if a new CF is brought in? Should we persist with Bobby next season as our main striker. We also have Ings and Origi.

05 May 2017 20:02:25
No we can't, Faith. We've been doing this for over two seasons now and nothing has changed. Like you said, Best ability is availability. His inability to be fit, makes him unavailable and hence, of no use to us. We have no time to waist so I guess we have to let him go and wish him luck.

05 May 2017 23:29:48
I agree best ability is availability, but unless we are bringing in a top quality striker this summer, he needs to stay, he has a quality that Firmino and Origi simply don't have. He scores goals, end of, simple and is a hell of an option currently of the Ben Chaplin. Personally of he's ready I'd start him against Southampton. Maybe Ings can come in next year (hope so) but you just never know with these injuries, Ings may not come back the same player as he was.

04 May 2017 13:36:49
Just popped over to the Man Utd page for a look and I couldn't believe my eyes. There was a Liverpool fan on there wishing them good luck for tonight and saying they hope they win it. what has the world come to? I hope they get embarrassed both home and away. No Liverpool fan should ever want them to win! One Manc fan even had the audacity to mouth off about Liverpool in his reply about us getting all English teams thrown out of European competitions!

Believable24 Unbelievable7

04 May 2017 14:09:55
It's good for English football if they win it, though.

04 May 2017 14:00:35
Iago Aspas for the hat trick! Rooney to fall over and miss a 1st minute penalty that ultimately causes irreparable mental damage to the rest of their season.

04 May 2017 14:20:19
Only until the end of the season, MK?

04 May 2017 14:32:44
I don't really care but if they lose the final by a disputed penalty in injury time of extra time - that would be the ideal scenario 😎.

04 May 2017 14:57:11
It is potentially good for LFC in that they may take their eye off the league challenge and slip up again in a way that helps get top 4.

04 May 2017 15:19:12
I don't want them to get champs league. With their money they can pretty much buy anyone, only the lack of champs league might stop them. Don't want them getting in a position to be winning the league again for 20odd years like us! 😂.

04 May 2017 16:07:38
I am that guilty party but let me explain:

I am a football fan, I am a fan of the premier league, but what was once the dominant league in global football is running the risk of slipping into the peripheries as we have had little success within the major tournaments for too long. European success is paramount to us keeping the 4 spots. Imagine if we finished 4th this year but didn't qualify for champions league because we had lost out final place last year? Nah, not for me.

Furthermore, some say they don't want UTD to have CL next year due to the players they could obtain. Firstly, as much as we hate it, they are one of the biggest names in sport, they will attract global superstars with or without CL. Additionally, don't get me wrong, I want us to win everything, but I want us to do that by beating the best, that's what will make it exciting. I would never wish to be in the position PSG or Bayern have found themselves in recently.

Finally, look at Chelsea this year, having no CL is a blessing in the race to Prem success, do we really want UTD being able to cruise to the title next year?

It would be boring if UTD slipped into obscurity, those derby days are what makes it such a great sport.

04 May 2017 16:18:15
I work with a United fan who is adamant that they will win the Europa League and therefore he doesn't care about the top four anymore. It would be an absolute joy to watch United put all their eggs in the Europa League basket and then drop the basket right at the last.

04 May 2017 16:19:18
Dont't want them mancs doing us any favours that for sure!

04 May 2017 17:40:04
Cotsi, regardless of how they get on in Europe tonight they have already qualified for Europa through League Cup, personally I'd prefer they had Thurs sun Thurs football than sat tues/ wed footy.

04 May 2017 18:38:31
I'm with unconditional here, let them have European footy but europa league on a Thursday. The premier league doesn't need Man Utd in the champions league to grow, it's the best league in the world regardless! I'm supporting Celta tonight that's for sure! Then Arsenal on the weekend, then celta next week, then Spurs. you catch my drift.

{Ed025's Note - i get your drift welsh...you are extremely jealous of united..

04 May 2017 19:12:39
With the amount of money in the Premier League compared to other leagues, there's no chance of English football "slipping into the peripheries".

04 May 2017 19:53:03
Sorry cotsi but that's just not how it goes. You don't wish success for the enemy regardless of the situation. You're either a foreign fan or you don't suffer any abuse from united fans. I get your thinking, but I don't think it's an immediate risk, I think it will be if England continues to fail in a few years but not now. I don't want united in the CL it means they have even more of a chance of getting top class players and even more of a chance at winning the league, look at the bigger picture. Thursday Sunday is detrimental to any top team, however being in the CL has proven not to be. Who has ever won the league being in the europa. Did any United fan wish we'd win the europa last season? Or maybe you where living under a rock at that point lol.

After that season where Everton legit refused to go out and beat city and their fans hardly celebrated their goals I put love for any of the rivals aside for good. That season I was happy to see Everton challenging for top 4 and actually wanted them to do it, they did not feel the same way about us. Never again will I want another team to do well.

At least you where man enough to admit it.

04 May 2017 19:53:44
I'd love them to loose the final in the 93rd minutiae 1-0 by a pen from a blatant dive.

Will put mou post match interview on repeat and make a cuppa.

04 May 2017 20:30:05
Utd getting all the way to the final and losing would be no bad thing either.

04 May 2017 20:55:57
WHeres that come from Ed 25? No Liverpool fan wants them to do well (except Cotsi) . It's a shame you lot weren't a bit better, we'd be worried about you instead. Instead of trying to win your mini league with the likes of Stoke and WBA you should come and compete with the big boys sometime!

{Ed025's Note - we will do next season welsh..and you can take that to the bank, you seem to be obsessed with wanting united to fail, now i can see the rivalry thing but dont you think it would be more productive to concentrate on your own side instead mate?..

04 May 2017 21:24:34
Always next season! Of course I want united to fail, I always have, same as they want us to fail mate it's a mutual thing. If we were playing tonight I'd be concentrating on that wouldn't I but we are not so im following Celta. I know a few Man Utd fans and the minute our game finishes, if we've lost I get bombarded with texts gloating, how can I not want them to fail?

04 May 2017 21:50:08
For me Ed, it's not about wanting united to do bad, more for my reds to do better, by them having difficulties that surely helps our chances, so in conclusion yes want them to do bad haha ;) all typical rival banter
Hope Aaron Lennon gets the necessary help he needs to make a speedy recovery.

{Ed025's Note - im all for the banter UL but sometimes it can turn to hatred, both sets of supporters are equally to blame though as it occurs on both sites, on arron yes its a very sad state of affairs and i know people will think how can a guy with his sort of lifestyle have problems, but mental health knows no bounds and can affect anybody, would anyone have thought gary speed would have committed suicide? the human mind is a very fragile thing and as you so rightly say he needs help and support from as many quarters as possible, its nice to know that people like you care as this sort of thing transcends any sort of rivalry...cheers mate..

05 May 2017 11:21:05
I think that if we needed man Utd to beat someone on the last day of the season in order for us to win the title, then I may consider being a manc for at least 90 mins. alone at home with no one else watching of course.

what's my point? Better not to speak in absolutes, cos eventually there will come a situation that you will have to then wrestle with the moral high ground you've sat on for so long!

05 May 2017 09:05:18
I'm with the both of you on the Lennon matter, I've had a family member suffer from mental health issues and it's a horrible illness. Like you say, it doesn't matter what profession your in or how big your bank balance is, the mind can be very fragile. I'm certain he'll receive the help he needs and I hope he can get through this. When things like this happen it puts life in to perspective and makes you see football is just a game (team rivalry Ed 25) and life is precious. Good luck to the lad YNWA.

{Ed025's Note - i echo all of that welsh mate..

05 May 2017 10:01:55
Thanks ED 1 amazing response as always, and i totally agree, have to look at the positives and the negatives to see the total package, but what i will say is a positive for us, seeing man u in the state there in cause he took his eye of the ball has definitely been a positive for a liverpool fan lol.

04 May 2017 09:49:56
Eds, I see some questions being asked repeatedly. Perhaps, you can create a FAQ section and update it once in 3 months or something?

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - That exists already in the form of the Sharkopods.}

04 May 2017 10:04:55
Is there a new Sharkopod due soon mate?

{Ed002's Note - No, you had one recently. There are a couple of others to do first.}

04 May 2017 22:56:22
I speak for the majority when I say we're very grateful ed 😘.

{Ed002's Note - You are very sweet.}

04 May 2017 09:04:24
hi eds, According to an exclusive report covered by Read Liverpool, the £50million rated ($64.5million) central defender (virgil van dijk) has agreed to sign for Liverpool if we can qualify for the next season's Champions League. Do you know whether this is true? also do you think van dijk is as good as everyone says?

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{Ed002's Note - I answered this yesterday Joe.}

04 May 2017 10:16:24
Brief answer Joe;

- Liverpool are very naughty for attempting to tap up players in the past.
- Other teams do not like this (who would have thought it? ) .
- If Liverpool make 'verbal agreement', that is considered naughty again.
- Liverpool could be in trouble/ more trouble.
- Liverpool probably/ hopefully have not made initial contact in this way.

As to ability, most seem to think he is very much a superior Skrtel, with all the flashy big tackles and terrible positioning/ general defending which comes with that.

04 May 2017 13:55:04
No such verbal agreement exists as that is against tapping-up regulations and LFC had better not be doing that.

Spot on, Jolly on your last point about VVD. Great description of an overrated, MOTD highlight reel-defender.

04 May 2017 13:57:06
He isn't as good as Skrtel. In a deep defence Skrtel was solid. You only need to see how well he played under Rafa, Kenny and Clarke to know that.

It is only when he is asked to play higher up the pitch and make risky decisions that Skrtel became a liability and thus unsuited to the Rodgers/ Klopp styles.

Van Dijk cannot even stay in position in a deeper defence because very much like Harry Maguire, John Stones, a young David Luiz etc. He thinks he is better than he is and sets off on marauding forward runs until he or his team loses the ball and then he can't get back in time.

He is a really average player who looks good only on highlight reels. Skrtel was easily exposed in certain systems, but if you played to his strengths he was actually a good defender. Not top class, but good enough to win our player of the year award! Van Dijk is just a liability in any system.

04 May 2017 14:58:57
Sorry but have the say the whole problem with Skrtel was he was the one forcing a deep defence when others tried to push out and that directly caused problems - see the Palace draw as a good example of the panic that sets in when we allow teams to come onto us. Not saying current is massively more reassuring but pushing play away from our penalty area is a must.

05 May 2017 11:14:27
Great description, MK. Notice how some are saying that Mcguire would be a good signing for us. Yeah, that happened for the same reason people think VVD is worth 50m. Sheesh!

VVD has always been overrated and is quite simply a poor defender who wouldn't hack it in the system we play in where CB's are exposed to one on one situations. The obsession with him in the media and a part of the fan base simply shows that they have no clue or simply don't watch games closely.

04 May 2017 05:21:45
I see some big numbers been thrown around the papers this morning. Notably Chelsea and United.
I know nothing about ffp and finances. And I know the eds don't like to discuss it. But how can a team like United after paying loads for pogba and others. Still be in debt and still throw crazy transfer fees and wages around.
Especially with limited success recently.

And how are the likes of us, and other medium to big teams in the premier league supposed to keep up the pace financially.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - because they earn so much more. It is really that simple. If you earn more than me, you can spend more than me. United have a much higher income than we do.}

04 May 2017 06:20:17
United are desperate to get success again and buying the so called house hold names for stupid money just to remind people that they are still one of the biggest clubs in the world despite not winning much in the last 4-5 years.

Let them do it, all they are doing is buying mercenaries who want a big pay day. Pogba for instance not really done anything this season for a massive price tag and massive wages.

04 May 2017 06:57:28
I can't fathom out how a club in so much debt can be classed as one of the worlds richest clubs.
Where as teams like Arsenal, with no debt, seem to be more constrained by FFP than United.
I know United have bigger sponsorship deals but that shouldn't be a factor. They're hundreds of millions in debt.
It's pretty ridiculous.

{Ed001's Note - Arsenal have debt too. No idea why you think they don't?}

04 May 2017 06:59:01
I guess I'm confused at how they earn so much more.
For instance they have a bigger stadium but fat Wayne is on what now 300000 per week? Aren't we capped at 150000?

Not a fan of big money in the sport but it is the way of things I guess.

04 May 2017 07:37:10
Why do they earn more?
Much bigger stadium
More recent success
More sponsorship
More popularity in emerging football markets
More matches
Aggressive successful marketing when the team was winning.

It not that difficult to figure out. I don't know the numbers but I'd imagine we're miles behind in terms of income.

04 May 2017 07:28:14
Ed would be helpful to understand exactly how they earn so much more given their league positions last few years. is it still their global fan base and how do they monetize that so effectively, or is it sponsorships or TV payments or something else? Do you think Liverpool will ever be able to compete and what would we need to do to get there? I know you don't really like to talk money but curious to know if you feel able to share. Thanks.

{Ed001's Note - Ron has pretty much explained it. They marketed themselves around the world, built up their stadium etc, while we stagnated under Moores. Ever since then we have been playing catch up, but without our former success on the pitch, while they have had a recent history of success.

The only way we will ever compete is to win more trophies over a long period of time and market it properly.}

04 May 2017 08:41:25
I was always led to believe they had no debt. I was obviously wrong!
My point still remains that if you are significantly in debt, you can't, or shouldn't, be classed as rich, no matter of your income.
I earn more than a friend of mine, yet he has paid off his mortgage whilst I haven't. I know which one of us has more money (it's not me) and I know which financial position I'd rather be in (not mine) .

{Ed001's Note - it depends how much more you earn. If you earn enough you could easily pay off your mortgage at any time you chose, then you are not really in a bad financial position. Man Utd have such a large income stream that they would have to suffer massive financial mismanagement of the kind of scale that only a merchant banker could manage to produce. Which is why it is quite heartening to see a merchant banker running the club nowadays ;-)

04 May 2017 08:46:54
Although They have much bigger spending powers than us and Jose always gets a big transfer kitty, don't buy in to all the paper talk that they're going to sign every Tom, Dick and Harry! I mean in today's papers alone they've agreed to sign Griezmann for £89 million in £280k a week, had a £70 odd million bid rejected for Mbappe and a ready to pay £62 million for Boletti. every day the papers say Griezmann is a done deal but the money details change daily, so who actually knows? They're just guessing!
On a side note, if there's any truth in Willian being moved on I'd love us to go after his signature! Really can't see why Chelsea would let him move mind, the guy is quality!

04 May 2017 09:07:25
Great responses guys. Thanks.
Mind boggling how much more I guess.

Lol at the investment banker thing. I've always said that United were pyramid scheme and I've been waiting for it to tumble. Still not happened.

04 May 2017 10:08:12
Ed001, can I ask your views on the breakaway league that ed002 has talked about.
All the richest clubs joining it.
Do you think it'll happen and, if it does, would you want us to be part of it?

{Ed001's Note - I am pretty sure it will happen eventually, but I hate the idea and hope we have nothing to do with it. The Premier League is bad enough.}

04 May 2017 10:22:07
I suppose an away trip to Bayern Munich may be cheaper than an away day to Arsenal though. ;)

04 May 2017 11:13:52
Thanks for the reply Ed - I'm based in Asia at the moment and noticeable how when 13/ 14 happened so many more reds tops were around. Think in Asia in particular where PL is massive but allegiances aren't set in stone, the style of play and results are key to building global recognition. Klopp has also had a good impact and IMO will repay his wages many many times over if we can even half way emulate what he did at Dortmund.

{Ed001's Note - fingers crossed.}

04 May 2017 11:43:17
The trouble is the tv money would go with it but it may see English football back on terrestrial, younger English players getting regular football so pros and cons. I'd expect us to go with it regardless if we are still performing at the right end of the prem table.

{Ed001's Note - streaming rights will soon kill TV rights anyway.}

04 May 2017 12:24:20
Don't be blinded by the suggestion United have only just started spending big etc.

If you go back to 1991 when they first floated, it really has been moneybags there after.

04 May 2017 12:45:52
Hi eds

Do you think they can actually still attract players in the ilk of greizman without CL football next year?

{Ed001's Note - some, yes.}

04 May 2017 13:43:28
United could simply buy any player under the sun. The hard earned money over the past two decades of sheer dominance on European football. They are a bigger entity than both Real and Barcelona combined. They could probably sell Pogba for free and walk freely away.
Money will buy you success, Ask Chelse and City. Both from nothing to something!

04 May 2017 13:46:53
I have travelled a fair bit to Africa and the Middle East on business and the overwhelming attitude amongst the up and coming generation is "who are Liverpool? " Lack of recent success and ignorance of the past underpin this attitude.

04 May 2017 14:53:04
Does debt have any relevance with FFP?
I thought FFP was directly related to gross income.

{Ed002's Note - Yes, there are limitations on money that can be thrown at the club by owners beyond what a club earns itself.}

04 May 2017 16:03:49
Thanks ed 😘😍.

04 May 2017 21:39:49
Harry

According to Forbes, Real Madrid (694 million) and Barcelona (675 million) both had higher revenue in 2016 than ManU (625 million) . Plus ManU debt as % of value is roughly 10 times larger. So not sure how you came to idea that Manu is bigger than Real and Barcelona combined. Do you have any figures to back up that claim?

03 May 2017 23:23:52
Fabregas won't be coming to lfc . slow, legs have gone and too expensive.

Believable11 Unbelievable0

04 May 2017 13:44:13
David Silva has slow legs. Best player in the league on his position by a country mile. Fabregas is a gifted artist on the ball. Excellent vision to pick players. Terrific range of passing. If you are deeply obsessed with running players OX would be a good shout! No brains unfortunately.

04 May 2017 13:52:52
I'd happily take willian off their hands. Read somewhere he could be leaving.

04 May 2017 14:56:28
Old, slow and lazy and on stupid wages. No thanks.

04 May 2017 15:00:32
N Red which Chelsea player are you referring to?