Liverpool Banter Archive September 04 2014

04 Sep 2014 17:37:22
Player for player, on paper I don't think there's much difference between the two sides. I think we have a higher quality of player in Rooney, Di Maria, De Gea, RVP and Falcao but I think you guys have far better squad players and as a result a stronger unit. - with us having some stronger individual players.

If this team gels well it could do really well, but there are a lot of ifs and buts in all of this.

The same way I don't believe Liverpool will be as good this year because teams will be wiser to the tactics of Liverpool having had a year to watch them. - but that's just my opinion and of course could be completely wide of the mark.

I still expect Liverpool to challenge for the top 4, but I don't think anyone can call which teams will get in it. it's just way to early.

We've got 5 teams fighting it out for 3rd, 4th and 5th - United, Liverpool, Arsenal, spurs and Everton. I also think Hull will be surprise team and push like Southampton did last year.

But, you can't call it yet, it's just too close. United may gel and win every game from now on, Liverpool may fall apart, Arsenal may find the switch to turn on the finishing of Welbeck, Spurs may decide to play as a team and not sack their manager - there are so many different variables at work here.

What if Falcao, RVP, Rooney, Mata and Di Maria gel instantly and score 6 or 7 a game like Chelsea was doing under Ancelotti? What if Liverpool carry on like last season with Sterling turning out to be as good if not better than Bale was for spurs?

I think one thing we can all agree on is that all of the teams have strengthened, a lot of excited purchases have been made and the fact we don't really know what the top 4 will be (for the first time ever) makes this year so exciting.

For all we know, the top 4 this year could be; Chelsea, City, Everton and spurs. Leaving United, Arsenal and Liverpool out the UCL. - it's certainly a possibility this year.

Also, I think we're all underestimating some of our rivals playing staff - IE I'm not convinced that Henderson is that great.

You guys think our Back 3 is terrible, perhaps Rojo, Carrick and jones may play together and be brilliant? god knows.

My point is that for the first time in god knows how many years I'm excited about what might happen in the Premier League and the new talent that's on show.

I'm excited to see what Welbeck does at Arsenal, I'm excited to see if Sterling can up his game further, I'm excited to see Spurs finally click, I'm excited to see Falcao and Di Maria do well.

This year is going to be a roller coaster.

Now why didn't you just say that in the 1st place lmao

United have bought a lot of quality this window, but I think you've let yourselves down by not improving your midfield or defence, this is what will prevent you from getting top 4, as well as the silly points you've dropped in your first 3 games, in those 3 fixtures, Chelsea, City, Pool and Arsenal, will all likely pick up 9 points, which gives them a 7 point advantage.

Simonpw - it's no fun just being straight up about things, got to play a slight game ;).

BantandDec (great name btw).

You may well be right, at all of LVG's former clubs he's gone on big winning streaks after they've got used to his way of playing.

Even in the failed season at Barcelona he won every game in the UCL, and with Bayern he done really well as you all know. (btw, it was agreed he would leave at the end of that season before he was sacked).

So, hopefully history will repeat itself and we'll have a bit of a winning streak.

You are right though, we already at a bit of a deficit, if Arsenal continue their ability to duck things up at the end of the season we may find a way in there.

Long way to go yet though, we could pick up maximum points form Arsenal, yourselves, City and Chelsea which would obviously mean we're back in the race.

You're going to get beaten a few times unexpectedly, so are we, so are Chelsea, arsenal, etc. etc.

So we'll see what happens but I'm already excited without all the twist and turns that are to come.

I'm a huge NFL fan and this is shaping up to be just as excited as the NFL.

Everton in the Top 4? That is a good joke.

04 Sep 2014 19:07:35
Looking at the Man U team, I'm genuinely envious of one player: De Gea.

The rest I really think we have answers to or better players.

Yeah, Rooney, Falcao, RvP, Mata & Di Maria gelling is a threatening prospect. So is Sterling, Sturridge, Coutinho and any one out of Lallana, Markovic or Balotelli. And we have the advantage of knowing that Sterling, Sturridge and Coutino can already operate effectively with each other and be part of an attack that scored 101 league goals. Rooney and RvP are an effective partnership at the highest level, but there's questions about the integration of the other three.

And we have better central midfielders and defenders.

Why aren't you convinced Henderson is that great? He has been getting better and better now for the past 2 season and has started this season, surprise surprise, in excellent form. His passing and his vision has improved hugely, his desire and work rate his top class, his tackling is good, his finishing needs work but his goal conversion rate is edging higher (though is definitely an area on which he could improve), he dominates in midfield.

If he was called Hendinho and played for United you'd be spunking your keks over him - as it is he plays for us and has a mundane surname. Come to think of it yeah you're right, he isn't that good, what sort of name is Henderson like?

I agree with something red tbh, I think that players like coutinho and henderson are vastly underrated. IMO Coutinho like mata, just far more mobile and skillful, and henderson is far better than Herrera. Although I do relish the banter thatwe have, keeps me on my toes with all the mancs at school. ;)

Agree your forward line is a good as ours when firing both are deadly defence is very suspect from either team city showed that midfield is equal enough yours sligtly better as you have more depth our goalkeeper is better by a distance but we for the first time in 5-6 are very equal

Im baffled how anyone can class Rooney as being anything other than average. Even their own fans wanted him gone. Not even close to the player he was as a kid.

How can Rooney be classed as top quality.

He has been one of the most over rated players of recent times.

Rooney is crap simple as that, and he shows exactly why the England squad will do nothing special for the next few years.

I personally think Rooney is on the way down, he was a bloke at 16, so has had twelve years full pelt in the premier league, I'd say his body is the equivalent of a 33 yr old now, wouldn't be surprised to see van gaal drop him, captain or not

Jose, I just don't see how you can put United in the running for 3rd, 4th or even 5th if I'm honest - not yet at least.

You don't have a team yet, you have a group of expensive signings that will take time to gel and not all will cut it here in the PL - and I include LvG in that. The transfer policy seems to be largely short-term / high risk but hey - Keep up the good work!

I do agree that it should be another great PL season. Everton v Chelsea was a great game the other day so the early signs are that even Chelsea might be watchable this season.

Before the season I thought Everton, Spurs and United for 5th, 6th & 7th (in any order). Three games in, you don't even look top half and that's based on your performances not just looking at the table. I don't know where I think you'll finish now.

Chelsea and then City have proved in the past, if you spend enough you can buy success but I am not sure United will find it so easy. City and Chelsea are settled squads and have the wealth and stability to maintain top 4 for years. Liverpool and Arsenal have built young dynamic teams which you'll find hard to match - As Fergie did once upon a time. Spurs are trying to do the same and Everton under Martinez will be pushing once again.

Buying a top 4 birth is a lot harder proposition these days. I think the league has moved on and I expect you have some years in the relative wilderness of Europa league places ahead of you.

I think United have lost the plot.
Panic Bought.
Falcao great player but how does he help when you can drive a bus through United's defence?
Until they rectify their defensive problems then they will struggle and they are only playing 1 game a week until January. A lot of players to keep happy.

-Something Red -

De Gea is a wonderful player and you're bang on the money. If your guys can continue their relationship and grow then you'll have a great looking attack of young players.

Seano -

It has nothing to do with his name, I just think you need more than one good year to be called a class midfielder. So far he's looked impressive, very impressive and he's dominated teams just like Ramsey does (I don't know where his form for England is though).

If he played for United I probably would appreciate him more, when you first signed him, and throughout that first year, United fans were happy we didn't move for him and I would say 90% of you lot were calling for his head in the same fashion we have been with Cleverley.

But, he's proving to be a very good player and I hope for the sake of his own career that he can keep that up.

The Shrewsbury red -

I think that Coutinho is very under-rated, he's a great little player. perhaps not as prolific as people like David Silva but he's certainly a top lad who you got for a bargain price.

Question mate, how much have you seen of Herrera to make that assessment? - I would say Henderson is far better than Wilshere or Cleverley I would say it's debatable between Henderson and Herrera both are at a similar stage in both of their careers. - Herrera just has more experience of making things happen in a big side.

Irish Rover -

Wayne Rooney pre 2010 was incredible, in fact he used to do what Sterling does now just slightly differently, Rooney used to have a burst of pace, out muscle a defender and go forward, Sterling just skins defenders and moves forward.

Rooney imo has failed to adapt his game for the good of the team. He's certainly a talented player but not the player he once was.

I'd have him in my team but he'd be a rotation player, nothing more. When he's on form though and he's confident there are very few better all round players in the EPL. - It's just a shame he hasn't been on form for a good year now.

Lavers -

Does that mean Gerrard is crap as well then? his England career even with the 'golden generation' done absolutely zilch.

Of course Gerrard isn't rubbish though.

I would say Rooney is as over-rated as many other English talents. It's just the way the press build things.

I think he's a good player who scores goals even when he's playing poorly, but everyone including Sir Alex knew his time had come last year and we needed to get shot of him.

I think you'll actually be surprised about the next few years, he'll be off before Van Gaal imo.

A big difference between Liverpool of last year and utd of this is the season prior to last Liverpool had already started to play very well and were just not getting the results, be it unlucky, poor finishing or whatever. Last season and so far this United have looked sh&t and I can't see that changing till mid November at the earliest. By then champs league will be gone.

Also I don't see how you can get falcao, Rooney, rvp, mata, di Maria in the same team. Dropping Rooney would make sense because he's gone turd but he's just been made captain.

I personally think utd have bought terribly this summer, a lot of expensive luxury parts and it looks great but the engine is still from an old 91 ford mondeo!

Jose

Rooney is crap at club level pal.

{Ed001's Note - did you really need to add 'at club level'??}

05 Sep 2014 08:06:57
Henderson for England has been Hodged. His best weapon is his workrate and mobility. So Hodgson, in his almighty wisdom, restricts him to a tight midfield covering role and doesn't let him harass or run at anyone. He shouldn't be playing for England, and neither should Wilshere - Barry, Rodwell and Carrick should be there instead. They aren't even close to the quality but at least the game Hodgson plays works with their strengths, not pressing random players into random roles

04 Sep 2014 17:33:22
Morning/Afternoon / Evening everyone
Following on from mikeys post
Really enjoying the site last couple of days with the mancs visiting
Some good banter there. Makes a nice change from transfer talk

Makes a change from endless Sturridge song posts as well.

04 Sep 2014 16:16:58
Are you happy with the business done this window? Ins yes I'm very happy with the players that came in & wouldn't fault or change them. Outs no I'm very disappointed with the lack of outs, borini, aspas, skrtel, lucas, suso & coates should all have been SOLD. johnson should have been released or sold or loaned. Ilori should have been given a chance. Alberto I'm undecided on so can see why he went on loan. Suarez had to go but maybe went cheap at around £60m. Kolo should have been gone to leave sakho, lovren, ilori with the likes of Lloyd Jones getting a chance if need be or not loan out wisdom.

04 Sep 2014 14:53:29
I think one thing that is a bit lost on the United vs. Liverpool comparisons is age of the squad.

Gerrard aside, the oldest player on the pitch for us against Spurs was Mignolet at 26, about the same age as Juan Mata.

Herrera is a bit older than Henderson and Allen.

Sturridge is 6 years younger than van Persie, Balotelli is 7 years his junior and on-loan Falcao is also a fair bit older than both.

Rooney is a good 9 years older than Sterling.

Young and Valencia are both pushing 30, whereas Manquillo is 20 and Moreno is 22.

Evans is older than both Sakho and Lovren, although I honestly didn't realize how young Jones is until I just looked it up.

Point being, even with your additions, the squad you have is still aging rapidly whereas there is a good chance in 5 years, bar Gerrard, we could field exactly the same team that played against Spurs on Sunday with the oldest player in 2019 being Mignolet at 31 and Sterling would still be younger even then than Di Maria is now.

I've heard looking like a potato does make you look a few decades older, unfortunately for poor Phil Jones.

Lol, Jolly Red. To be honest, I'm amazed Mata is only 26. He's got to be about the oldest looking 26 year old I've ever seen.

Now let's not discuss Falcao's age we shouldn't open that can of worms ;)

To be compared to a potato out of a team that includes Wayne Rooney is really unfortunate.

Left that one a bit nebulous, always a red.

Here in the US, people do similar things (without the illegality) by holding their kids back from starting elementary school until they are a year (or more) older than their peers so they have a leg up in high school for athletics. Pretty sad really.

Well RDL he's not the first person to add or taken away a few years, hell most woman over the age of 29 often forget their date of birth. By the way 'nebulous' that has got to be word of the day shame on me I had to Google it.

It is also probably worth mentioning that LVG will not be a long term man at Man Utd. He finds a way to piss people off and leave or get sacked.

Well guys don't open this can of potatoes:-D

I would think you're probably correct, real AG. Some of the comments from the United players already seem a bit at odds with the whole 3 at the back thing.

04 Sep 2014 14:08:33
I just wanted to clear a few things up from my post yesterday.

1) Van Gaal has been successful everywhere he has been, and I'll take that as good will, I think he'll do really well at United when the team settles into the system. How many of these lads would have ever played in a back 3?

2) Rafael is rash, Johnson is simply terrible, personally given the choice I'd rather have neither in the side and I'd love to see someone like Seamus Coleman at United.

Valencia has been played at fullback on and off for the past 3 years, he's not great but he's certainly okay as a back up. As a wing back I think he'll be decent, the same goes for Young - Admittedly I'd rather sell them but they do have some use in our squad. I would say they're no worse than Kuyt playing there in the WC for Holland and he done okay.

I rate Henderson, much more so than I did a few years ago, but I don't rate him as highly as Liverpool fans, he has been fantastic for you but before last season you were all calling for him to be sold along with Carroll, Downing, etc.

Part of me is not sure if he's just really come on and developed incredibly well or if he's just playing within a confident set up. The reason I say that is because Central midfield is a very hard position to call - Steve Sidwell was amazing for Wigan in central midfield in that top half year they had, Cleverley was our best player for 2 months - bossed the City midfield, Arsenal's, Spurs and Boltons a couple of years ago - he was confident in a confident team and once he returned from injury he was poor - The same can also be said for Anderson. Therefore I'm a little wary about a midfielder who's currently playing well, it's a position that you earn status from consistency and currently Henderson has only done well for a year.

That said, he's currently a fantastic player for you.

I do believe Herrera to be a better player though, maybe not currently but he's to Bilbao what Gerrard has been to you. He made that team tick and to replicate half the form he showed their for United would be incredible.

He's on the fringes of the Spain side, and when you look at that midfield are you really surprised? It's very talented. He's in the same position as players like Koke, Laporte, etc.

If we're basing it on the past 2 years, then Herrera is a better player, if we're looking specifically at last season then I think it's a tough call - one which will cause much debate.

And obviously we can't talk this season yet because Herrera's only played once and then got injured.

Luke Shaw will never live up to that £30M price tag, and I rate Moreno extremely highly, he was a player United heavily looked at in January and was another option to Shaw. Moreno is a better play at the moment and that's not even up for debate. But Shaw is going to be a fantastic LB, he's 19! Playing week in week out for a massive club and he's only going to improve from there.

I also think his defensive game is strong in comparison to his attacking game, he's not AMAZING going forward, but he'll develop that part of his game. Last season I thought he was very good defensively for Southampton though.

Gerrard is hands down better than Blind, I think Blind will be a fantastic signing for United - He'll do what Hargreaves did but without the injuries. And Hargreaves isn't as good as Gerrard. I think you've all been a little generous here.

Sterling, once again a great prospect, Real Madrid may have looked at him but he's not a first choice target otherwise they would have got him, we should all know by now that Real get whatever they want whenever they want.

I like Sterling though, he's looked very impressive - I'm probably going to get some hate for this but he reminds me of the Anderson we bought from Porto, watch some of Andersons clips and you'll see a lot of similarities. It's great to see a young player taking players on and beating them.

It remains to be seen how far he can go in Football though, England have a huge thing for overhyping wingers - Young, Wright-Phillips, Walcott, Ox, Lennon, Downing, Townsend, etc. They never lived up to that expected potential even though they broke through and were incredible at a young age. He's one to watch but I think calling him the best AM in the league is a little OTT - I mean let's not forget David Silva at City.

In comparison to Mata, I would say it's a close call.

People say that Mata hasn't done well for United but he's been fantastic (18apps 7 goals and 5 assists). I think that's a very good return.

He's not been as good as he was at Chelsea though, and that's a concern. I would say they're also very different players - Sterling is much more forward, likes to take men on and run with the ball whereas Mata let's the ball do all the work for him.

Both excellent players though.

Di Maria vs Lallana -

I'm a huge fan of Lallana and I have been since his Bournemouth loan all those years ago. He's a good player, but he's not a great player.

He can make something out of nothing, which is a great ability but he's less effective than Di Maria.

Di Maria thrives on taking players on, he'll run at anyone, his crossing is superb and as you saw last night vs Germany (albeit a friendly) he was devastating.

Lallana was a great bit of business at £20M but I wouldn't consider him one of the top midfielders in world football, whereas many would consider Di Maria to be the best winger in the world (perhaps being Reus) and many would also consider him to be in the top 10 best players in the world (probably in the latter half though).

I think Di Maria is the better player without a shadow of a doubt. You don't be a UCL final Man of the match for nothing, especially when you've got players like Ronaldo, Costa, Modric, Benzema, Alonso, Bale, etc. all in the same game.

That's not taking anything away from Lallana though, he's a very good player but I think he's in the same category as players like Nasri, whereas Di Maria is in a Category with players like David Silva.

Lets talk about the Forward line -

I like Sturridge, I'm not sure if he can improve on last season but he's a very good forward and there aren't many in the EPL as good as he is at running in behind.

He'll certainly be weaker without Suarez in the team, that's a given the amount he assisted was unreal, so although I think he'll score 15-20 goals this year I don't think he'll be as good as last year.

Balotelli - He'll be a good signing IF you can sort him out, the difference between Balotelli and Suarez is that Suarez was always excited to play football, if Balotelli isn't the star he won't bother trying to play well. it Happened at Inter, City and AC Milan. Why would things change now? (not to say they won't, just why would they).

He's a huge gamble and he will score some spectacular goals but I'll be surprised.

13/14 - 14 Serie A goals in 30 games
12/13 - 1 EPL goal for City in 14 games
11/12 - 13 EPL goals for City in 31 games.
10/11 - 6 EPL goals for City in 17 games.
09/10 9 Serie A goals for Inter in 26 games.

To me that's not the record of a top forward, a good squad forward but not an out and out first choice forward.

Also, 19 of those goals are penalties. Meaning he's scored 24 goals in 118 apps. (this might be slightly off because it doesn't take into account only League penalties but it also only gives results up until march 2013 - so he's had a year as Milan's main penalty taker so It's probably about right).

I won't bother talking about Borini and Lambert because I don't think either will score more than 10 goals.

When we look back at Rodgers comments made last season he says that Liverpool need 70 goals to qualify for the UCL, not to win the league, to make the top 4.

Do you think in Sterling, Balotelli, Sturridge and Gerrard you've got 70 goals? - I'm not so sure myself. I think you'll have around that amount but It's not a dead cert.

Last season you scored 101 goals, Suarez scored 31 of those goals and assisted a further 21 - I think it's fair to say that you'd have still scored 10 of those 21 with Coutinho assisting for example. But that's a further 11 you've lost.

Taking your goal tally without Suarez involvement down to 59.

Also, when you look that City scored 102 and haven't really lost anyone with the exception of Negredo, Chelsea scored 71 and have added Costa and Fabregas, Arsenal scored 68 and have added Welbeck and Sanchez, Everton scored 61 and have added Eto'o, Spurs scored 51 and now have had that year bedding in period plus a new more attacking manager and United scored 64 but now play a more open brand of football, with additions of Di Maria and Falcao.

I think you'll need closer to 85 goals and I'm not sure if you've got the fire power (on paper) to secure 85 goals without Suarez. There's only so much Sturridge and co can do.

Looking at United;

Van Persie will likely score around 15-20 goals, he got 12 goals in 21 games last year.

Then Rooney is probably good for 15 goals (he scored 17 in 29 last year).

Not to mention Falcao, who I think is good for around 25-30 goals - providing he stays fit and is getting the right kind of service.

It is true that Falcao has scored a lot of penalties in his time which boost his goal scoring stats, but even without it his goal scoring record is still impressive.

For Athletic in his final season, in all competitions he scored 28 goals in 31 games having a total of 123 shots - I think that's a very good record.

He'll probably continue to take penalties at United seeing as his record is better than Rooney's and on par with Van Persie's.

He's very good in the air and he's now playing with a better creative core than he has at any other club in the world.

Mata, Rooney, Herrera, Carrick, Januzaj and Di Maria regardless of what you think about them are all like to be putting balls through to Falcao.

I don't think he'll score 50 goals or anything stupid but I do think he'll do very well.

One last thing, while we're on the subject, I saw a post on here the other day saying whether it's a wise move better Sturridge to outscore Falcao and pretty much everyone was like 'yeah, easy money'.

Well, I'm not saying Sturridge can or cannot out score Falcao - What I am saying is that it's a very close bet. There probably isn't going to be much in it come the end of the season and if an injury occurs to either one it'll be game over.

Oh oh oh!

Liverpool fans have also been calling Falcao injury prone.

Do some research lads, He's had 4 injuries in his entire career where he's been forced to miss more than 2 games.

He's had 2 knee injuries but you'll do well to realize it was his other knee. he's injured both his knees and once, one was for 3 weeks in 2011, the other was a much debated Cruciate Ligament injury - a freak injury much like the ACL that can just happen, it has nothing to do with fitness or previous injuries.

I'm happy to have a good discussion lads but let's try and be as sensible as possible.

Falcao isn't going to score 30 goals mate, behave. Lol
Pulling up his stats from athletico prove nothing, you could pull up Torres's stats from Liverpool to prove he can score 30 goals (he can't). Sturridge will have a better goals per minute ratio this season.
The most rose tinted specs and bias post I have ever seen.

04 Sep 2014 14:43:05
Jose

I'll try and be sensible.
Gk:Have to agree with yoi there
RB-Both are useless. I could play better than Rafael and Johnson
Johnson is better as a player technically but rafael works harder
Valencia agreed good squad player but only at rb
Young I am astounded you guys are still keeping him.One of the worst players I have seen play for man u can't cross or can't take on his man
Blind may overtake Gerrard in a season or two. Gerrard legs will ultimately give away
Remember the question was about a diamond formation and Herrera in a b2b role
Herrera would be better than gerrard in the deep lying playmaker role ad his passing is very good but compared to hendo in the midfield role b2b he is behind. Henderson is the energy.
P.s center backs we have better
Di Maria vs Lallana
for me it depends on the FORMATION AND POSITION
in a midfield Lallana would be more useful and better suited but on the wings Di Maria is ahead (who I think isn't world class)

Going to your Sterling Anderson comparison
difference is Anderson had no ball control no shooting abilities no technical aspects bar his pace no shooting abilities
Sterling has all of them
All players you mention were flash in the pan with nothing but pace and NO COMPOSURE (which sterling had in hands)
On present form future prospect and depending on the formation (Mata I think needs pacy wingers which a diamond does not allow)
I'd pick Sterling
Suarez is better than Balotelli and Rooney combined FACT
The stats you give about Balotelli are mostly from a substitute role at City and a very inferior Milan team
Id rather judge him on what he does for us
Pre falcao was better than Sturridge
but will this falcao be?
That remain to be seen
Just remember Knees are the brains of a footballer. Serious injuries there can bring about the ruining of a players career see torres (although falcao doesn't rely on acceleration like torres)


This is my most unbiased view

04 Sep 2014 14:47:27
Good read, this.
We'll just have to wait and see, I suppose

Fair play Jose for coming back - not sure the post needed to be that long ;o)

I really think you need to forget about which player is best / better.

If you have two CD's that like to sit back and a DM that likes to be a bit more forward thinking it could leave a huge hole for the opposition to play in and hurt your team; that being said all three players may be deemed the best in the world in their position but they still will be vunerable to attacks due to the space.

Different players have different attributes; it's been a long time since I played Football Manager / Fifa but would pressing the opposition / covering angles thus stopping players passing to other players be called an attribute? It's not always noticed or appreciated but it can be the difference between winning and losing.

You do not need to have Great players in a team (as you've stated Lallana isn't; but he was still voted as one of the top 6 players in the league last year so therefore there can only be a maximum of 5 players deemed as Great status in our league at that point).

It obviously helps to have great players but only if they are great within a team; flashes of brilliance help but they don't happen multiple times every match.

Just accept you've spent a lot of money and on paper look like you have some amazing players; but if you play 3 at the back you still do not have some positions covered or are you as strong in - Defence being the main area.

Furthermore you pay £30m for a left back in Shaw; he's still not a LWB; he may become an amazing one but some of your spending has not been well thought out (you could argue the same about ours however at least we have cover in every position).

Jose Moonrinho, don't forget LvG got the sack at Barcelona and Bayern Munich leaving them 18th and 5th, in leagues he should be winning comfortably.

As united are so good it'll be good to have you back next may so I can congratulate you on winning the title

Jose,

The single biggest factor in the problems that Manchester United have, is they don't have Ferguson in charged. He somehow managed to get an average team playing like champions. He is proof that if you have the right manager it doesn't really matter how good your team is individually, it is how they play as a team - and right now your lot look like they have never played before. In the last 20 minutes at Burnley, if Ferguson was in charge, you would have had at least 10 attempts on goal, but those days (thankfully!) appear to be behind you. There has been very little urgency to win since Ferguson left, IMO. It wasn't your players that won you all that silverware, it was your manager. I think that any manager coming in will find it tough, and that includes LVG (can't remember if he looks like Beavis or Butthead?). He will struggle this year, and I am sure it won't help having Gout Nose lurking in the stands, so I hope he keeps turning up. We have a better team than you, regardless of the quality of the players. Milton Keynes Dons have a better team than you for hecks

04 Sep 2014 13:02:22
Why is everyone comparing our squad to United's? Shouldn't we be comparing our squad to our closest rivals? City, Chelsea and Arsenal.

Red Rum

Awesome mate

Yeah but they started it. Lol
I'm hoping some posters come over from the arsenal, city and Chelsea sites to do the same.

05 Sep 2014 08:21:17
Mikey
Arsenal-don't expect them. They have grown very bitter recently under the influence of the everton ed
Chelsea-I fear Ed002 so no comments
Man City-I don't think more than a dozn msn cityfans ffollow their sites right ghost town over there

looks like we will have to make fo with the man u guys
still its better than everyone asking for random players anf criticizing everyone involved with the club

04 Sep 2014 10:43:02
Without being biased, here is my take on this United/ Liverpool comparison.

GK) De Gea 7 - Mignolet 6
RB) Manquillo 7 - Rafael 5 - Johnson 5
CB) Lovren 8 - Skrtel 6 - Jones 6
CB) Sakho 7 - Smalling 6 - Agger 6
LB) Moreno 7 - Rojo 7 - Shaw 6 - Flanagan 6
CDM) Blind 7 - Gerrard 7
CM) Henderson 8 - Herrera 6 -
AM) Di Maria 8 - Lallana 7 - Coutinho 6
AM) Sterling 9 - Mata 6
CF) Suarez 10 - Balotelli 7 - Rooney 7
ST) Sturridge 9 - Falcao 9 - Van Persie 8


These are based on the start of this current season. In the case of those who have not played, it is based on the last time they did, and I saw them. 6 is an average rating, anything lower is on the negative side. I think I have been reasonable here, and maybe even overrated some Liverpool players. I am sure some will disagree.

I'm confused. You accused me of being biased then basically agreed with me using numbers instead of words. The only difference was I had Rafael slightly above Johnson and you have Di Maria slighty ahead of Lallana.

The Di Maria part aside though, I pretty much agree. I think people will be suprised by his lack of world class ability. He got 17 assists in over 30 games. Suso got 8 in a team not even half as good in about 20 games. Di Maria also scored just 4 goals to Suso's 2. Suso is 5 years younger as well.

You can't take goals and assists too seriously in that league.

04 Sep 2014 11:50:34
Um, Suarez? - He plays for another team.

''The Di Maria part aside though, I pretty much agree. I think people will be suprised by his lack of world class ability. He got 17 assists in over 30 games. Suso got 8 in a team not even half as good in about 20 games. Di Maria also scored just 4 goals to Suso's 2. Suso is 5 years younger as well.

You can't take goals and assists too seriously in that league''

Why mention it then?

I think the only bias I saw with your post was the fact that Lallana was higher than Di Maria, which for me is an obvious choice. I am sorry, I should have specified what I was referring to. Di Maria in that United team will not have success, but as a player on his own, he is one of the best in the league in my opinion. I usually agree with what you have to say :)

04 Sep 2014 12:44:54
It is always something that's important to bear in mind when looking at assist stats. Suso's from last year are no doubt slightly inflated by being the best AM option in the team so seeing more of the ball than most players will be in a match. More opportunities = more assists. But that's theory. What we can be absolutely certain of is that Di Maria's are a boosted stat because of players like Ronaldo and Bale collecting average passes and doing something phenomenal with them. A normal pass 35 yards from goal turns into an assist cause one of the best forwards of his age then put his boot through it!

Personally I don't rate Di Maria at all - he's too wasteful and doesn't have anywhere near the end product people think he does. He's good off the ball but when an attacking players best attribute is when he doesn't have the ball, it's not world class. I disagree that Sturridge is as good as Falcao (when both are at their best anyway). I'd rather have Sturridge for age/money/injury issues etc but Falcao at his best is unstoppable and to me is the superior footballer and striker. I'd take our team over United's any day. Actually tbh the only top 6 team I think wouldn't be better than United's player to player is Spurs, but they compensate by having a much better balance across their squad and no obvious serious weak point

04 Sep 2014 12:54:02
Some of these haven't even played this season how are you rating them?

Suarez and Agger?

Fair play Piledriver. I can see why some people would currently rate Di Maria as the better player. I think that opinion will shift by the end of the season though. Lallana just has more to his game for me. He doesn't rely on pace or superior team mates.

And btw Bobatron, I mentioned it to back up my point that he is over rated. Players frequently double their goal tallys when they move there, or equally score half as many when they leave. Soldado, Ronaldo, Morientes, Negredo, Robinho, Aspas, Michu, Pablo, Ozil, Suso, Falcao etc. The list is endless. Attacking players just find it so easy there because the hole style of football is engineered towards scoring goals or passing it around in defence. that's why the best clubs have a field day; all the smaller clubs are too stubborn to play boring football so they just go out to win and get taken apart.

I'd change the following:

De Gea - 8
Rafael - 6
Shaw - 7
Di Maria - 9
Mata - 7

Remove Suarez and Agger. From the 5 above then ya I'd see yours as a little biased but I've only upped them by one each. I do think you have definitely under-rated those 5 though at least.

Di Maria is better than any player Liverpool have . Falcao is better than Sturridge and balotelli combined . Has a better goal scoring ratio. Shaw is far better than Flanagan. Rooney better than Sterling. Mata better than Coutinho.

Do you not see the massive contradiction in what you wrote? You can't use stats to back up a point in 1 sentence, then in the next say goals and assist stats shouldn't be taken seriously.

I means eriously you've used falcao in that list who's not even played in the BPL and was out for the majority of last season.
negredo scored 23 in 48 which is better than he did in spain, this inlcludes coming on in bit parts as a sub for a fair few games, and being injured.
Suso doesn't even get a game at Liverpool, ofcourse he's going to improve his goalscoring abroad.
michu scored 15 in 37 for vallecano, and 18 in 35 for swansea?

Seriously sometimes I look at what you write and scratch my head.

With your argument Alamin, it is hard to come up with counter. I don't know if it is your lack of statistics, reasons or any semblance of proper discussion.

I think that the way you write statements without any of these pillars of argument, is what proves so persuasive. "Mata better than Coutinho"; can't fault that logic.

A squad that came second and a squad that came seventh. Summer signings that have yet to play or impress in the Premier League. A team without a style of play, and another with a style and an improved general squad.

I guess we will have to wait to see who has the best squad come May.

04 Sep 2014 09:53:46
Suso wants a new contract at Liverpool - give him one!

I think he just wants to play games, give him a game. Shouldn't have bought markovic and used suso instead in my opinion.

I think Markovic will surprise a few people this season. Especially when the team has "gelled" more - I think he's going to take some teams apart in the last 20 mins of matches.

I hope your right hoola and I don't doubt the lads ability at all. I just don't see him as an improvement on suso really. The situation now is that markovic will be mostly on the bench this season anyway, we should have just had suso on the bench and saved ourselves 20m plus wages. Suso won't get a look in at all now and we are also paying them wages. Should have had one or the other and not both.

04 Sep 2014 12:58:05
If you don't think he's better than suso then you're seriously underating his abilities. Markovic is twice the player & will be an important player this season unlike suso

Markovic offers different skills to Suso though.

Not many ways to sit on a bench AG lol
I just see him as a bit of a vanity signing really. I would rather save the cash and play suso.

04 Sep 2014 03:58:22
none of my replies to posts on the banter and rumour page are going through? are you actually receiving them? posted replies about 5 times in last couple of days.

thanks

{Ed001's Note - no idea, but this one came through.}

03 Sep 2014 22:25:43
Hi guys, i'm a long time reader, and I decided to register. I'm 14 and a massive lpool fan since istanbul. Never forget when Shevshenko missed that last pen. Anyway thought I'd introduce myself. Cheers

Welcome to the party.

04 Sep 2014 08:28:56
Welcome TSR. Watch out for Wonder Dovs and sharp mohawks.

Welcome to the site mate.

You were 5 when Liverpool won the champions league. I know it's probably a memorable thing, but that's incredible to me. I can't remember much from 5 years ago, never mind when I was 5!

Ik mate, I remember the penalty shootout pretty vividly though, even though I'd never supported Liverpool before then I went crazy. Watched it since though so its hard to say. :)

03 Sep 2014 21:33:41
I would consider myself to be the most unbiased of United fans.

But let's get something straight here, everyone is saying United have a poor squad, are you for real?

It's not the most talented in the world but it certainly isn't poor.

De Gea and Lindegaard are two solid keepers.
Rafael and Valencia are both good attacking wing backs.
Rojo, Evans, Jones and Smalling are a good group of center halves.
Shaw and Young are a good first choice and an okay second choice wing back.
Blind, Herrera, Carrick, Anderson and Fletcher are a good core of central midfielders, not great but good.
Di Maria, Mata and Januzaj. 1 world class player, 1 top quality player and 1 with just as much potential as sterling.
Falcao, Rooney, RVP & Wilson - 3 out of those 4 are considered by man to be some of the best players in world football.


How can you call that SQUAD poor? I think it's got a good amount of talent, certainly good enough to make the top 4. if you got top 4 with your SQUAD last season then theoretically we should with this squad this season.

Also, on to Shappy's debate;

De Gea is better than Mignolet hands down.
Rafael offers more defensively than Johnson (although it's still not a lot.
Skrtel and Sahko are better than Jones and Rojo.
Gerrard is better than Blind
Herrera is a better player than Henderson in every way.
Di Maria is better than Allen and Coutinho if you want to swap it around.
Sterling is better than Mata currently, but let's not forget at one point Mata was the best number 10 in Europe with Chelsea. and Sterling as good as he could be is vastly over-rated currently. People would think he's an English messi.
Suarez is a different league to Rooney.
Sturridge as good as you may think he is, and he is a decent forward, he just isn't as good as Falcao.

How some of you can say Sturridge a man who has achieved nothing in his career is better than the best forward (goals to game) on the planet (bar Ronaldo and Messi) is ridiculous.

And then Di Maria isn't world class? but Sterling is? really?

I think SOME of you need a reality check, I understand all you're excitement at being back in the top 4 and challenging for titles again, but your squad isn't world class, your first XI isn't world class either.

A few weeks ago I saw someone post on here than Liverpool with the squad you have should reach the Champions League Semi-Final, be in the top 3 in the league and win a Domestic cup.

So, you think you're in the top 4 teams in europe? wow.

Like I said, I try not to be biased, and I like to think I'm quite fair but some of you hate United way too much to have a sensible conversation.

Others of you are a good laugh and great for a bit of a banter.

The thing is we know what Sturridge can do for us as he's been doing it for 18 months plus. Falcao, however, has yet to kick a ball for you, is coming off an injury, and wasn't nearly the same level as he previously was at Monaco.

Time will tell and Falcao could be just what you needed to drag you back to the top or he could well have Mata-level form for you- essentially your entire squad is a bit of an unknown quantity and frankly I'm not convinced Van Gaal is the right person to mesh the pieces into a coherent side.

Firstly, two good centre backs? Disregarding the fact that you say jones is half decent, chris smalling is not a adequate replacement for a club like united in my opinion and neither is Evans. Both your full backs offer little defensive skills, so when you're starting falcao, van p, Rooney, herrara, mata, and Maria, who else apart from blind will help the 4? I'm not denying they are world class players, but a plethora of attacking superstars doesn't guarantee success. Balance and teamwork will, with the superstars. If things aren't going your way, yes they might skin a player, but holding on to a win, whose got the grit in there?
In my opinion our ideal starting 11 doesn't include Johnson or Allen, but lallana and manquillo. Besides the point really, but manquillo has the potential to make rafael look like glen Johnson.

Henderson would run your midfield. And your car.

04 Sep 2014 01:50:04
i disagree with a lot of your propositions but the one that sticks out is herrera is better than henderson in every way. No . just no.

Nobody is disputing the quality of your players. Its the quality of your team at present that's the issue. Before you signed Falcao, you hadn't won a game in the premier league. You have a group of players who haven't played in the premier league, let alone played together yet and a manager who is trying to get a bunch of players to play together as a team. I have no doubt he will succeed at some point. At the moment we have a better team and more settled squad. We will continue to do so until you prove otherwise. Now get off your high horse before you fall and break your neck.

TBF you must be an unbiased Utd fan with your screen name.

I've actually not got involved in this player is better than that player blah blah blah.

However a few points on your post:

Rafael gets sent off / should get sent off far too often - 11 players normally beat 10 players on the majority of occasions.

Herrera is better than Henderson. How? by sitting on the bench? No point in me backing Henderson to the minions - i'd rather we just smile and pat you on the head when you make comments like that.

Sterling - over rated? Ask Real Madrid who they would prefer - actually ask them who they want.

Valencia and Young are wingers not wing backs - you are more than willing to put them in that position - actually you have; how's that worked out for you this season?

I'm not saying Sturridge is the best striker in the league; however 34 or 36 goals in 50 games; outweighs 11 in 20 for Falcao in a poor league when he is untried in our league (not saying he is not class but at the end of the day other than Suarez who scored more last season in EPL?).

Final comment - I think Man U other than defense on paper have an abundance of talents; that being said a lot are untested in our league; furthermore if your shipping goals then confidence will be fragile.

04 Sep 2014 01:18:45
I think you're having a laugh if you think Herrera is better than Henderson. Jordan Henderson is the toughest player in our squad to drop. Also, Sterling is overrated? Look at Wayne Rooney if you want vastly overrated. Other than that, I'd agree with you. Falcao was better than sturridge; now we haven't seen him play in months.

You forgot to mention managers. Your current manager talks like moyes; he's the next footballing genius. Rodgers over moyes, I mean van gaal, any day.

The problem with Manchester United fans in general (you including) that you lot are emphasizing too much on the big name stars/individuals and expecting to shoehorn all those stars into the starting 11 (majority of them are attacking minded players). Hoping that they will batter most of the teams like it's football manager. But unfortunately not only those players require time to know each other strengths such as link up and fluidty between them but also a balance is needed between attack and defence.

If LVG is really considering to continue with the 3 in the back formation then teams can quite effectively sit back and counter against an inexperiance proven defence with pace.

My opinion is that LVG will try to follow the Liverpool route last season i.e you score two, we score 3 mentality. Which works for a certain time but we have become stuck in a fer times against a hard drilled defence last season.

Instead of focusing on which man u player is better than Liverpool player. try focusing on getting three points on the board. You guys may have talented players but Liverpool have players that are hungry and plays as a team. PS. Henderson all the way!!

Hey, I suggest you take a long, hard look at your team. Liverpool have a team full of up and coming young players playing in a system that akes them better and a manager that actually KNOWS what he`s doing and will only grow with time. On the other hand, Utd have a squad that is unbalanced with certain mediocre players (Jones, Valencia, Evans, Young) and some world class players who are UNPROVEN in the PL along with a manager although successful, doesn`t have a clue about coaching in the PL. Falcao and Dimaria are class BUT will play in a seemingly disjointed syatem that will have to accomodate them and the rest of the egos on the team. Herrera is not WC by any standard and saying he`s better than Hendo when he hasn`t even kicked a ball yet doesn`t even pass the laugh test. If he was that good, why has he not played for Spain or been called to the squad? All in all, I think Utd have bought UNWISELY and the areas that needed help were not addressed hence, they will struggle to make the Top 4 for sure.

Don't think Utd have a poor squad/first 11 I agree In fact, since the new signings I've said one thing "no excuses. None.". I anticipate you'll be challenging Swansea for 7th.

04 Sep 2014 08:31:53
Funny really sum if the lad comments make no sence!
Sterling is ripping team apart right now. And little anders so good he can't get a sniff ahead of fletcher so that says a lot really. Falcao could yet be a missive 26m mistake. Not proved in the prem (we all remeber morientes now) and also not played a competitive match since january was it he did his acl!? Plus average age of the united fromt line in what say 28/29 ours is 23/24 I think. So there's ya difference united panic buying end of and also with 3 forward effectively past there best (footballers averagely peak at 26/27 say) where our strike force for me con only improve. Hope united have fun scoring 2 and conceding 5 ;)

{Ed001's Note - Herrera got injured, hence him not playing.}

Your attack is Champion's League, your midfield is midtable and your defence is Championship.

Also, for a supposedly world class manager, LVG wasn't get half so much attention when he was within days of managing spurs. All he did was wait for Moyes to get sacked and talked himself into the position. Seems that is his only definable trait yet, talking. That and moaning.

I won't get into the players debate, it's tit for tat, but this sentence.

''How some of you can say Sturridge a man who has achieved nothing in his career''

36 goals in his first 50 games for Liverpool is only 2nd to one other player.

He also holds a premier league medal, champions league medal, and 2 FA cups medals. Since your fans like to chat about how many medals the attrocious players have ahead of Stevie G

Unbiased? that's a laugh based on some of your assertions.

"Rafael and Valencia are both good attacking wing backs." - Rafael is vastly over-rated and incredibly clumsy and wreckless in the tackle, how he hasn't had more reds in his career is beyond me. Or at least that's what I would have said a year ago, to be fair he improved a lot last year but I still wouldn't want him and I think Flanagan is a better player already and a far better prospect to boot. As for Valencia, he is decent attacking but he is not in any way shape or form a wing back.

"Rojo, Evans, Jones and Smalling are a good group of centre halves." - From what I have seen of Rojo he is good alright but none of the others have lived up to potential and all three of them should have been replaced, they are not Manchester United standard. You would possibly struggle to find buyers for all three of them.

"Shaw and Young are a good first choice and an okay second choice wing back" - Young, like Valencia, is not in any way shape or form a wing back. Shaw is good. and has potential to be great so I'll give you that one. Ye did over pay but that hardly matters now, its done.

"Blind, Herrera, Carrick, Anderson and Fletcher are a good core of central midfielders, not great but good" - Anderson is rubbish. Illness has taken a lot out of Fletcher who was solid but never great to begin with, needs to be replaced. Carrick is good but he is nothing better than a mid table midfielder he is slow and over rated. I don't know much about Blind but it seems from everything I have read that he is a very good player. Herrera is a good midfielder alright but question marks remain over his ability to adapt to the premier league.

Anyway I think people call your squad poor because you have a weak defense and midfield (in particular defense), and very little on the bench to replace any of the players in defense or midfield should they tire, or get injured, or have suspensions. Your attacking options are very strong and really to succeed this season United have to play with the mantra of "whatever we concede we'll score more". I also think 3 at the back is a mistake and United definitely should play with 4 at the back and as crass as it sounds route 1 football would pay dividends for ye whereas trying to play the ball around in midfield might be a dangerous game depending on the opponent.

1 more thing "Herrera is a better player than Henderson in every way" - I'm guessing you haven't actually seen much of Herrera and you are basing this on things you have read. If you watched enough football to be able actually assess Herrera then you would surely have seen plenty of Henderson too and there is no way you would be so dismissive of a talent like Henderson. His passing is top notch, did you see his assist for Sterling in the game against Southampton.

Rooneys awful, every attribute. Well past it, united fans need to forget the name and start looking at the player.

Your squad is poor, look where you finished last year. Then look where you will finish this year. Then come back and say sorry. Lol