Liverpool Banter Archive December 05 2016

05 Dec 2016 23:04:19
Karius needs time, not convinced me so far, de gea was a joke 1st season. Lovren has been a weak link for a while now and needs replacing.

05 Dec 2016 23:58:52
I hope you're right about Karius.

I know he's young for a keeper and needed better protection in front of him than he got at the weekend.

But even considering the above I don't think he has improved from the preseason games where he broke his hand punching Lovrens head instead of the ball.

Maybe he should have hit him harder. .

Again I hope you are right.

06 Dec 2016 00:41:17
That's the spirit lads. Karius is already light years ahed of Migs in the footwork and distribution depts., both critical in Klopp's system. He was already making some half decent saves and making next to no critical mistakes up until everything crumbled around him and he didn't pass the his first pressure test. He's not been outstanding but Pepe and DDG were jokes in their first seasons. Even Courtois had a poor season last year so great gk's aren't immune to mistakes. Give him and support him and for at least two seasons and if he does not pan out, he gets replaced.

06 Dec 2016 01:19:15
If I remember did reina find it hard with the same thing karius I maybe wrong.

06 Dec 2016 07:36:08
reina survived that howler vs everton, karius can overcome this display but we have to support him.

06 Dec 2016 08:18:15
Noone needs replacing, we have been fine for months now. Top of league the other week. Own loss and its all over.

Remember Barcelona getting tonke by like 6 against barca. They didn't get rid. Sometime rubbish happens aslong as continue with a 2 losses every 14 games, we should win the league.

06 Dec 2016 14:39:48
Agree with all your posts lads. The comments that do my head in are the ones saying Migs should be brought back in because he was in fine form. Fine form? When did that ever happen? I don`t know who these commenters are because they must have really short memories or have been living under a rock for the whole period Mingo had been stinking up the joint with his hapless goal-keeping. Karius needs time, support and encouragement as the talent is there IMO, and we already know Migs is a known failure and is not the answer. He needs to be playing and learning quickly, to show us what he can do and 8 games is a ridiculous way to judge any new signing, foreign or domestic.

06 Dec 2016 19:30:42
Supermane, you're the one who said we need a new keeper, now your saying no one needs replacing?

05 Dec 2016 23:10:49
Couple of quick points.

As someone who thought it was unfair on Migs to drop him I now have to say get off Karius' back. Klopp hopes that Karius will end up being top class, to get there he has to give him game time and he has to accept the occasional bad game. Yesterday was the first time Karius cost us points, so far it is a one off and not a trend. If it becomes a regular thing then we can talk about Migs coming back in but right now Klopp has to demonstrate he has faith in the lad.

I made a point about our CBs last week, I know stats can be misleading and are only part of the story but this makes stark reading. With Matip in the team we've conceded once every 110 minutes, that plummets to once every 30 minutes when he's off the field. I hope Gomez gets some opportunities this season and I'd love it if he ended up being a star but if he's still a year or two away from being a starter then our transfer priority has to be at CB.

06 Dec 2016 00:50:59
On one hand, you say we should get of Karius' back which I agree with, and then on the other hand, you say his error cost us points. You are contradicting yourself, my friend. He should have held on to the shot but where was the defender to protect him in case a rebound happened? Where was the protection in front of him when our defence were all over the shop? Also, Migs was not unfairly dropped. He was dropped because he's a three year failure and he's still making mistakes prior to his benching and going back to him now is just as dumb as we know who he is. Even if Karius is not the answer, something we can only know after two seasons at least, Migs will STILL not be the answer and he'll b off. Stuck with Karius and support him as Migs time is past.

06 Dec 2016 06:34:57
Getting rid of goal keepers without making any change in the defense wouldn't make much difference. You have to investigate how the ball reached the 6 yard box.

06 Dec 2016 08:38:22
The ball reached the 6 yard box because there's 2 teams on the pitch and one of them is trying to score against us. You can't keep a team out of your area in every game for 90 minutes. I've been critical of Karius after that and rightly so it was an awful performance but I don't want rid of him. I'm just hoping that this is the kick up the backside he and the coaching staff need to improve. We won't win anything if our keeper can't make basic saves.

06 Dec 2016 11:18:03
Hamilton, It's times like this I feel you don't actually read the posts you respond to.

06 Dec 2016 11:21:42
Until karius gives away an indirect free kick for holding onto the ball for half an hour, I'll support him. His kicking was excellent on Sunday btw.

05 Dec 2016 22:40:56
Just did some half arsed research on squad cost/ squad wage and manager wage Vs league position. The correlations are obviously there.
We, Chelsea and Arsenal are about 2 up, West Ham, MU and Palace are the big negative anomalies.
But got to be said most teams are right where.

06 Dec 2016 00:04:03
Please explain further.

05 Dec 2016 20:37:33
I see Klopp and the lads flew out to Barcelona straight after the Bournemouth game, and will be at the Barcelona v Monchengladbach match tomorrow night.
Chance for Klopp to get a first hand look at Dahoud maybe.

05 Dec 2016 21:13:02
Indications are that LFC are no longer pursuing Dahoud.

05 Dec 2016 21:19:33
We moved on last summer and signed Wijnaldum. There has been no interest from us this season.

05 Dec 2016 23:26:56
Dahoud has looked pretty impressive this season which was to be expected, it's a shame that we didn't pursue him when we had the chance but he would have cost a fortune, having said that £25m that we paid for wiji would have gone some way to doing that. I hope we do look at midfield in the summer though, I think it's been a problem area for some time now but has gone under the radar somewhat because of defence.

06 Dec 2016 00:52:17
The Dahoud ship has sailed. Move on.

05 Dec 2016 19:20:35
Liverpool vs Newport or Plymouth in the FA cup, a decent chance for the young guns to impress I would have thought.

05 Dec 2016 14:13:59
Hi ED

A couple of things the performance told us yesterday.

1. We really need someone to partner Matip, both Louvren and Lucas can play alongside Matip and provide us with decent cover however if Matip is out they are just not good enough to be our main defender. In Louvren we have a player who always tends to make a big fcuk up in the game and that's not good for a top 4 club. We need someone who can play alongside Matip and take control when he is missing. It just highlighted how important Matip is to our side this season and i'm sure Klopp will sign someone when we get rid of Sahko.
2 We seem to lack a leader in the middle of the park. Hendo is a great player but goes missing when we need a bit of calming down. Someone yesterday should have taken the responsibility and calmed the game down by passing our way out of trouble to kill the game. I remember when Alonso came on from the bench one game when we were being overun in a cup game, he just took the ball at every opportunity and played us out of trouble. We need someone who can can manage games like these.
3. Experience is king - the loss may have be beneficial to us in the long run, we are much better being the hunter not the hunted. I do not feel we have the experience yet to lead from the front, for us it may be better to keep touch with the top 2 and make a move late in the season. Since being at the top we looked a bit shakey, its just down to a lack of experience so a few games with a little less expectation may do us good

Evered.

05 Dec 2016 21:14:19
I think Virgil van Dyke would be an excellent partner for Matip. Sure van Dyke has issues, but I think it is something Klopp can iron out.

05 Dec 2016 23:37:10
Putting things into perspective I think sahko was originally supposed to be the player that partnered matip as he was our best defender last season. So in sahko you had at least a second choice quality centre back that was very good most of the time, whereas lovren had really good games and then really bad games. Sahko not being involved in the squad anymore hurt our options at the back as lovren was clearly our next best defender. Lucas can cover centre back but against opposition that will attack and press us he doesn't look comfortable there at all, and klavan seemed to be somewhat of a panic buy for sahko and he's nowhere near his quality. Lovren cannot be relied upon as our second choice centre back with all his inconsistencies, so I would say centre back is the only area I hope we strengthen in January. Sell or loan sahko (sadly) and go for at least a second choice quality centre back.

05 Dec 2016 13:34:05
Reading some of the so called supports slagging off some of the players etc. pretty sure most people would be happy with being 3rd 1point of second 4 of 1st and in semi final of the only other cup we have played in is nkt exactly a bad start when most people didn't think we would be challeging for title. Plus we have only lost 2 games this season. We are suppose to be one of the greatest set of fans around let's get behind the team and see where the season takes us.

05 Dec 2016 13:46:51
Lfcleee, the ship of us being the greatest set of fans sailed a long time ago, I`m afraid. I can understand that people are frustrated as we have no business even conceding a goal in that game as we were that dominant. however, we messed up and that can happen. That should not define the season (that`s not even half way yet) as not even I, thought we would be where we are right now so I`m not going to act like I did.

As for those talking about the title, they really need to pipe down and look at the whole picture. This is Klopp`s first year with the team and judging by yesterday`s result, we are not ready for a title tilt this season as a team going for the title should not be losing a game like we did.

We are in for the top 4which was the target going in and we are right on schedule. People need to stop listening the hype in the media as they are setting us up to fail. Do I want the title? ABSOLUTELY! But I`m saying we need to walk before we run and right now we are walking briskly. The next level is to run and we`ll get there BUT we must learn to stick together, persevere and not look back as history is becoming a burden on us. Go Reds!

05 Dec 2016 20:34:33
LFC still has the greatest supporters. No question.

05 Dec 2016 23:04:18
Hamilton,
Can I ask why we shouldn't talk about the title. We had one of the toughest set of fixtures to start with and came through with flying colours. We bet the best and at one stage were deserved top of the league. We are easily good enough to win the title and in my opinion that's what we should be talking about.

I don't care where in he league I thought we'd be at this stage or where anyone else thought we'd be. We showed great grit and determination to get to the top of the league and its poor performances that have seen us drop to third.

We have not been bettered by any other team, we have been guilty of awful individual errors and yesterday in a complete capitulation. That in my opinion is not acceptable from professional footballers at the level we have. We threw away three points yesterday and points against Southampton when we were also the far far better team.

We can win the league and I believe should win the league it may require a new CB in Jan as Klavan isn't good enough, Loren is starting to look poor again, Gomez is not ready and Lucas is not a league winning CB. We need quality not quantity. The team should be told off harshley after that awful capitulation and maybe Klopp needs to look at his tactics if similar situations arise in the future.

But with the rest of the squad we are good enough to win the title and I for one will be screaming and arguing that case with opposition fans until Hendo lifts that cup.

05 Dec 2016 23:41:15
I am still seething about yesterday but have certainly not given up on the title. I said before the game yesterday that we are the only team that can consistently dominate teams to the point where they can't get into the game and for the best part of 70 minutes we did just that. That team played at the Emirates and had more possession than Arsenal which tells you just how good we are at what we do. What happened after that was unfathomable and largely down to Matip missing and Karius not saving a routine shot for the second goal. If he makes that save (which I truly believe I could've saved) then we win the game. That being said I stand by what I said about us before the game and I really do think we have an outstanding chance of lifting that trophy in may.

06 Dec 2016 00:55:29
McGoveb, your last two paragraphs just explained my point. You're welcome, by the way.

05 Dec 2016 11:26:16
Disappointed with yesterday but sure you can't win them all. looks like we need to add a bit of depth and quality to our squad starting with the defensive side. Sako is out so who is out their in a CB position that we should look at? Lovren needs his had held just to cross the road . we could do with a leader in either CB or holding midfielder who we can throw on in the last 20mins to see the game out and control the ball.

With klopp tactics, I am happy that they work in 9 times out of 10 and we will have the odd hiccup. Don't forget that b'mouth and Burnley deserved their 3 points. they more than earned it!

05 Dec 2016 13:46:01
I strongly disagree with u that u need quality player.
LFC player even if most were not first eleven but they are far better than Bournemouth's player.
They were not committed to the match in second half.
Bournemouth for me they did not deserve victory at all because they were dominated until 74th minutes that's when things got worse us.

05 Dec 2016 14:05:46
candy, Depth is always needed in a squad but that is not why we lost last night. Had we won 3-1, no one would be making that comment about depth and defence as we were all over them from the word go till the last 15 mins. We did not manage the game and we let our guard down, something we have never done this season. We will recover like we did after the Burnley loss as the players and coaches know what needs to be rectified.

05 Dec 2016 19:28:47
I still believe that at 3-1.we could have changed the tactics by throwing on an experience leader to see the game out. 15 mins we shouldn't be giving the opportunity of anything. ball comes into our box and it should be sent packing anywhere away from our goal. but to continue to use the same formation and leave the door slightly open will cost any team points. we haven't got that experienced head to throw on at the moment to sit in and do 'old school' tactics. I watched manure yesterday and after they went 1 up they went into time wasting mode to see the game out. only for JM throwing on the wrong player in side show bob. the weekend results would have been a lot worse 😬.

05 Dec 2016 19:58:15
You are globally correct, Candy. The leadership part will come with time as our team is still young. I did laugh my head off when I saw Fellaini do the "job" as he normally does. At the end of the day, I don`t blame Fellaini really as he is who he is. I blame the "best manager in the world" who put him on.

06 Dec 2016 00:13:30
Like Mourinio did with Felanni.

By changing the team structure you can invite trouble too.

05 Dec 2016 10:46:35
One defeat in 16 and out come the fickle fans. Football is a roller coaster you simply ain't going to win every game and these things happen let's get over it jeez there is so much to be happy about with the team the club you would think we were bottom of league 2 going out of business. Keep up the good work eds
Up the pool.

05 Dec 2016 14:09:26
Redan, I guess such fans can always go support City, who are a complete mess. City has only won 2 of their last 6 league games, kept 2 clean sheets in all competitions all season with an "experienced" GK who is worse than Manninger and two CB`s worth 80m who wouldn`t make our bench and a pompous, overrated manager who is being found out with every game. If that was LFC`s record, there would be rioting on the streets. I know what team`s situation I`d rather take.

05 Dec 2016 09:28:22
I'd rather we lose to Burnley and Bournemouth and win at Arsenal and Chelsea than the other way round so trying to look at that as a brightside. It's not that we lose games that is frustrating it's that we lose them when we either dominated the whole game like at Burnley or from a 3-1 lead like yesterday it's the way we just seem to lose concentration when we go ahead. Make silly decisions and can't seem to hold out for the win. We only seem to have one way to play and we keep rushing forward with quick passing at 3-1 when slowing it down and keeping possession wins us that game easily. Fair play to Bournemouth for putting us under pressure and getting the win but the way we seem to collapse as soon as a team score against us is scary. Makes for an exciting time to be a Liverpool fan but I'd love to feel secure when we get a 2 goal cushion for once instead of biting my nails and grimacing. It's clear that without matip our defence has little to no organisation and we could do with another CB as assured as him. Injuries aren't helping, mane coming off really hurt us. Hope it's just a little knock. And lallana can get back to form ASAP. We're not out of it yet guys. YNWA.

{Ed001's Note - but we didn't keep rushing forward at 3-1, we took our foot of the gas and they pressed us back.}

05 Dec 2016 11:08:53
Hi ed001, it's more like we re out of gas. Not sure if it's those intense training taking its toll. Origi had opportunity to pressure for 4th goal but he shrink back.

{Ed001's Note - no it was not. If you think that then you really have no idea what you are talking about. There was plenty of energy left, they just kept dropping off because they thought the game was won and then lost the initiative and panic set in.}

05 Dec 2016 12:41:25
In some way, that goal form Emre was the worst thing that could happen. It pushed them into a false sense of victory.

05 Dec 2016 14:35:33
Even tho it is never the worst thing to score a goal, I agree with your point, Nick. We stopped doing the things that got us into the position we were in with 15 minutes to go. That was the difference.

Bourmouth were never going to lay low even if we were up 4-0 because Eddie Howe nor the fans won`t stand for that. They played till the final whistle, we did not and that is an attitude and lack of focus and intensity issue.

The panic in the box was appalling each time a ball went into the box and this is where a leader like Matip was missed but without him, we still should have closed that game out. definitely a wakeup call for the players and fans and Klopp already mentioned that.

05 Dec 2016 08:29:19
It's been clear for a long time achterburg needs to be moved on, but I have full confidence in karius he's a brilliant keeper.

05 Dec 2016 10:50:31
Even for arguments sake, if we can assume that Karius and Mignolet are at the same overall level, I'd still go with Karius. We've seen Mignolet for 3 straight seasons and I have no confidence in his ability to improve on any of the areas that need improving. He just does the same things over and over again. Karius, on the other hand, has tremendous upside and potential. He can only get better. If we need a keeper of Reina's (best) level to challenge for titles, then I would argue that we have a better chance of getting it with Karius (or even Ward in the future) than with going back to Mignolet.

05 Dec 2016 14:38:44
Spot on, boys. I would rather work on potential and high upside with the hope of striking it big, than persevere with a known failure.

05 Dec 2016 15:05:26
But Square Tomato, Achterberg is a luverley fella apparently. can't train a keeper for toffee like but hey he's a nice fella!

04 Dec 2016 23:49:07
So much negativity, quite embarrassing tbh. When you consider we have only lost 2 games out of 14 lol, if that was predicted before the season started i'd of been like yeah alright then, out of been realistic, we've done fantastic and today wasn't our day. IT HAPPENS!

So many plastic fans who won't get behind the team because we have a day like today, it's pathetic, towards the end of the game today I briefly looked at the live chat section and couldn't believe what I was reading, shame on the majority of people who was on there.

Eds I don't know how you do it on days like today, it wound me up the amount of plastic fans suddenly coming out the woodwork because we lost, I had to leave the site alone for a few hours.

We all know Karius had a shocker today, doesn't mean he always will does it? Players can't be 100% every sinlgle game, plus we can't just blame him, end of the day it's about the team, we do need a new CB but that's about it, we really struggled without Matip today.

I find it unreal the amount of people wanting to splash cash all of a sudden because we lost one game, how about support the team you claim to love instead of slating them.

05 Dec 2016 02:20:45
LFC16, you are so right. You would think we just lost our fifth game of in the PL where as this is only our SECOND loss in all competitions. ALL COMPETITIONS! We know what went wrong and Klopp did not mince his words and went straight to the point. He said our energy and intensity levels were low even in the first half which was telling to me. We just lost our focus and normal intensity levels because we thought the game was won. As for Karius, he was found wanting today under pressure BUT I could point up to five players who were just as bad so no use blaming individuals as the whole team failed Klopp and us in the last 15 mins. We need to refocus and get back to what got us in this great position we are in and we will be fine.

05 Dec 2016 04:19:41
"It doesn't feel too good right now but sometimes we need it. Of course this can help us. No road is without rocks and stones. " - Klopp.

05 Dec 2016 04:25:40
As good as your post Liverpool FC, We have to accept this team has issues at the back and this goes to 3-4 years behind. Lovren is an extensively average defender who Southampton robbed us for the money and when ever I tried to claim it on the page I got the stick from people. He has generally one critical mistake every game and I wouldn't be surprised if West Ham target him on Sunday again!

TBH I would be gutted if we hand over the title to Chelsea or City! One game doesn't make any big deal but there has been many games with the same score line.

Our manager has said in the past he wouldn't care one bit if we concede as long as we keep winning. I am not a big fan of this set up if you ask me.

At this level you cannot buckle under a half decent pressure from a very average team!

Good week ahead 16.

05 Dec 2016 06:26:15
It's a but unrealistic to expect fans to be cheery and upbeat after a defeat of that nature. I know in a day or two everyone will settle and (hopefully) have a more realistic outlook but defeats like that sting, fans are perfectly within their rights to be unhappy.

{Ed001's Note - they are not within their rights to act like spoilt brats, throwing their toys out of the pram like they have been. It is pathetic and no one has any right to act like it after one defeat in 16 games. People need to grow up or just don't type and subject the intelligent amongst us to their childish petty whines!}

05 Dec 2016 07:29:12
ever since jamie carragher retired we have never had a leader at the club and that includes gerrard. that is what we need to buy in january. it is the reason arsenal have not won the league for so long as well we have the best team in the league but some weeks we need to win dirty. chelsea have it, because they play that way.

05 Dec 2016 07:20:09
Ed1 mate what do u expect especially when u read here from some of our respected posters saying "League is our this season" I think we need to be realistic with our expectation.

{Ed001's Note - not sure how the two are related, we are still there in contention for it.}

05 Dec 2016 08:04:38
What is the problem in challenging for the league this season or any season? How would tennext season would benefit us? Y would some team just bow down to us next season?
Some people makes me laugh when they set these realistic targets. The team sits in the third position and some want to remain there for the rest of their life!

{Ed001's Note - what are you wittering on about? No one has said any of this stuff apart from you. As usual you just make up nonsense in your head.}

05 Dec 2016 08:10:34
The lad above Ed01 ✋.

{Ed001's Note - he did not say any of the things you are saying. Just stop making stuff up in your head. You do this constantly. You read one thing and take it to ridiculous extremes. Everything is hyperbole with you. Just take a deep breath and calm down. No one said anything about wanting to sit in 3rd place forever.}

05 Dec 2016 08:52:29
The worst is to see so-called "devoted fans" come online and gloat with their "I told you so" and "see, I was right" after a defeat. It's really pathetic to read -especially on that live chat. Sure, everyone is entitled to their opinion - positive or negative. But I subscribe to the view that if you can't say anything nice or at least be analytically objective in your criticism, then why bother posting "petty whines" on here? I usually get irritated with Ed002's small digs at LFC fans. But ultimately he is right. A lot of the "fans" on here simply don't deserve a winning team. They're much happier wallowing and expressing negativity and projecting negative energy.

05 Dec 2016 09:13:48
If you quoting me Ra, Then I guess you could skip and move to the next thread. There are latest 600 posters on the site and close to 40 new threads everyday. You will find plenty of supporters you could interact.
Everyone cannot be like you!

05 Dec 2016 09:22:34
Analyticaly objective is a great point. I find some of the more reasoned posts worth reading and often offer insight. Unfortunately there are in the minority.

05 Dec 2016 09:46:25
Harry I never said we shouldn't go for the title mate. When we win a lot of our fans get carried away and when we loose its like end of the world lol. Still a long way to go mate there will lots of twist and turns.

05 Dec 2016 09:54:02
Nothing would make me happier Chin Music. Your posts rarely have any intelligent relevance. But you carpet bomb the entire Liverpool pages constantly, so it's impossible to avoid reading your posts or even responding to anything where your opinions are not involved - your hunger for attention is so great. I stay away from your posts but you perceive it as your God given right to butt yourself into mine. And then tell me to move on. Not only have you appointed yourself as these pages "superscout" (with your frivolous praise of assorted non LFC players) but you assume the rest of us are blind to what else is going on in football. You committed to staying off the live chat, but of course, had to throw in your negativity last night. Stay off my posts. And everything wil be fine.

05 Dec 2016 10:04:09
I wanted to add - Apologies to all the other posters on here to have to read my previous post. It's not the purpose of these pages nor my purpose in being here. And it's really petty childish stuff that we can all do without. But sometimes, to make someone understand, you have to use the lingo they're able to understand.

05 Dec 2016 10:14:14
Kopitef

No worries mate. Chill!

Ra
That is not completely true. I ever knew you own this site mate. I oblige.
Thanks and Good luck.

05 Dec 2016 11:38:58
We used to have a leader in Luis Suarez and we sold him off at 75mil pounds . fkin cheap 75mil pounds only.

05 Dec 2016 14:50:05
You are wrong, Harry. Everything Ra1969 posted about you is SPOT ON. I could read it for days. It would take me a life time to describe your conduct and posts on this forum, the way Ra did. Bravo, sir!

05 Dec 2016 16:23:56
Ra, spot on.

I'm going to try to wait out until Harry goes on another sabatical from the site as I too am fed up with the mindless trolling of every post to spout his latest garbage.

I'm just fed up of it and that's to the detriment of the usual banter and debate that draws me to this site!

05 Dec 2016 18:29:03
Leek we was lucky to get that for him. You post some utter nonsense at times but that's out there in Pluto.