Liverpool Banter Archive October 05 2016

05 Oct 2016 17:54:19
So, a bit of a distraction from the mundanity of an international break.

Of the current crop of EPL players, especially those in the second half of their careers, who do you think has the best potential as a 'top top' manager and why?

I was going to limit this to Liverpool players, but we've only got a couple who are in their late 20s or early 30s - Lucas and Milner - out of the regular first team squad, hence widening to whole EPL.

For me, I can see John Terry becoming the new Sam Alardyce - combative and working well with bottom half teams scrapping relegation.

I can actually see Lucas making a good manager. He's learnt from Rafa and Klopp, he's shown tremendous versatility, and therefore understands positions from AM back to CB, and from what I see of his character, I think he has the likeability factor, as well as the competitive steel.

I can see Rooney trying it, but not lasting long. A bit like Bryan Robson. I think Wayne will get too caught up in enjoying his money!

I think the most likely candidate, if he can be persuaded to stick with football following retirement, is Vincent Kompany. One of the cleverest all round footballers ever - 'Vinny' was in a mate of mine's MBA class at Manchester Business School a few years back! He's got the intelligence, has played at the very top level and will therefore have the respect too.

So that's my picks - Kompany, Terry and Lucas - what other views?

05 Oct 2016 22:41:49
Lucas is a great shout.

I reckon that Deeney might be good at it!

05 Oct 2016 22:43:02
I do not mean to shoot down your post but it simply does not work like that. The ability to be an effective cog in the machine of a football team doesn't reflect the ability to manage, lead and coach whatsoever.

Case in point, jurgen klopp. Great manager, self confessed average and unheard of player.

On the flip side, legends such as seedorf, inzaghi, neville, stam, hyypia and yes, even maradona, have had poor or mediocre careers in management.

As a result i think the only way to know which current footballers would be best at management would be to know them personally and their characteristics. The ability to lead, manage people, teach and get results is entirely different than being good at football, so i think it is impossible to tell.

05 Oct 2016 23:35:35
Neville and legend don't belong in the same status mate.

05 Oct 2016 23:47:17
Think a lot depends on who influences there career the most, Bielsa influenced many, his disciples include Pochettino, Sampaoli. Cruyff was the biggest influence on Guardiola. So Xabi Alonso can use a bit of Rafa, some Mourinho, little bit of Guardiola now some Ancelotti and what about a swan song next year under Klopp;-)

06 Oct 2016 01:16:50
I think the next generation of top managers will be players from the lower leagues who had to stay in the game because they are not multi millionaires and need to stay in the game, the cream will rise to the top.

06 Oct 2016 01:45:46
Impossible to know though. I Remember ferguson saying he was shocked how some of his ex players were/ were not good managers.

06 Oct 2016 04:54:20
God forbid anyone should try a hypothetical type question without thinking of every type scenario. And on the flip side anonymous these great players went on to be top coaches; pep, anceolotti, bobby Robson, Diego simeone, jupp heynecks, conte and our very own Kenny! So it's not exactly unheard of.
Maybe we should pick players we've never heard of and predict whether they'll be great managers? Erm.

I always thought teddy sheringham would make a great manager because he was so intelligent on the pitch but that's yet to transpire. Lucas is a great shout because he seems to have the respect of his colleagues. I'm going to say Xabi Alonso, is a quality player and seems humble enough considering. Not sure if that's a quality that makes a good manager but hey as Wool pointed out its kinda fruitless 😉.

06 Oct 2016 08:10:11
So difficult to predict. Most thought Hansen would be a good manager but King Kenny knew better : "not enough passion" was his verdict.
That's the thing we can't judge because we don't know their character, but there are some who could do a good job.
A bit out of left field but I think Craig Bellamy might make a good job of it.

06 Oct 2016 10:54:28
It's so hard to predict who will make a good manager and who won't. If I had had to bet my house on who would do well I would have said Sami Hyypia, a master of reading the game and a real leader, turned out he was pants. Solskjaer is another one that everyone assumed would be great but was awful at Cardiff. I think our basic assumptions about what makes a good manager are off the mark, we think it's the players who show calm control on the pitch but I think those guys may be just very good at following instructions, giving good instruction is much harder.

I think an important distinction is that the best managers know that the most important thing is winning games and then find the most effective way of doing it. That may sound obvious but I think it's rarer than you'd imagine. Manager's like Mourinho and Guardiola, even someone like Allardyce, know that it's not the style of play that's important it's winning. Rodgers' biggest fault was that he thought if he got the style of play right results would follow.

How do we recognise that win at all costs mentality in current players? Possibly it's those players who, when things aren't working, take the game by the scruff of the neck and win it themselves, they recognise that a change is needed and then do it. If there's a shred of truth in that then Gerrard may actually be a great shout as a future manager.

06 Oct 2016 11:50:06
I think good managers need to be good thinkers, and also very confident, commanding people.
On that note, I feel Lucas feels a little submissive and may not make the cut.
Vincent Kompany would be my first pick. Other than him I think Santi Cazorla, and maybe even John Terry. I would also not be surprised if fabregas and Michael Carrick made Good managers.

06 Oct 2016 11:55:59
As a starting point, I'd say you need two vital things: Passion for the game and the ability to influence all those around you. The example of passion is best shown by Simeone, who successfully translated his onfield passion as a player to the side lines and added whatever else was needed. In terms of ability to influence (it's a rather vague thing I agree, but it's a combination of leadership and charisma, and we all know and have seen people who have this ability) I'd use Mourinho and Klopp as prime examples. Even if they weren't managers, people would still sit up and pay attention once they walked into a room - it's just personality.

Using these two criteria, I think Kompany and Terry fit the bill. And I would add Luis Suarez (maybe force him to wear a muzzle at all times), Diego Godin, Mascherano, Ibrahimovic (why not? ), Sergio Ramos and maybe even Arturo Vidal. I know i'm going to get a lot of disagrees, but this is just my thinking of what is needed for a great manager as a start. A lot more is needed, of course, but further down the road.

06 Oct 2016 20:59:50
For me it'll be the types like Flanagan that will make the best of the next generation of managers.

Hard working, passionate - reached a level high enough to have played with and against some top quality players.

06 Oct 2016 23:22:03
AW, yep, my thoughts are completely flawed, but it's a bit of fun! I'll save down the post and revisit it on these boards in 10 years. I'll still be here!

06 Oct 2016 23:24:04
BTW, was trying to pick up just what you said in your last para, hence I am not picking the most talented footballers (no Messi or Ronaldo or Suarez) but trying to extract those qualities from what I know and can see of the players I watch.

07 Oct 2016 09:19:14
Think kompany and Bellamy are two great shouts I wouldn't have thought of! I know not premier league anymore but drogba I'm sure I read was doing his coaches badges with a view to being a manager in the future. Think he could certainly get a few jobs inspiring a team for a short term goal.

07 Oct 2016 11:00:49
You need to be intelligent, that's the key attribute. Blood and guts only gets you so far. A good brain is what you're looking for.

08 Oct 2016 14:19:13
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Jamie Carragher as a potential manager. Pretty sure he was asked often enough about it when he was still a player and he was open to the idea. Out of all former-Liverpool and current Liverpool players still in the game, I'd think Xabi Alonso and *ahem* Peter Crouch have the best chances of being managers.

05 Oct 2016 19:12:05
Sorry about this ed001, has my post from an hour or so gone aswell now?

{Ed001's Note - still no idea sorry.}

05 Oct 2016 19:42:36
They have mate, people disrespecting Hillsborough, that's enough for me. Good luck with the site ed001. Cheers.

05 Oct 2016 20:27:37
Waro you certainly have a taste for the dramatic. let the trolls be trolls
Mate. It helps them cope with their own sad lives.

05 Oct 2016 21:04:05
The sitecis open to anyone- I think some poor quality kids pretending to be man U fans must be reading the site and just disagreeing with every sensitive post.
The disagree/ agree buttons definitely need to go, at least on the banter page.
Can we have a voting thread?
Dont let's have an anonymous button based poll- if you a view on it, write it here and let the Eds know how many of the readers are for and against the buttons.

{Ed001's Note - it is not club based as it happens on every site.}

05 Oct 2016 21:39:22
Yes but why can't we just get rid of them? Completely pointless unless u can explain eds? Do not serve any purpose whatsoever do they? Not sure what's happened but in general they cause nothing but problems and they don't achieve anything. Eds?

{Ed001's Note - then ignore them.}

05 Oct 2016 22:24:25
I'm with you on this one Waro, bit out of order that post been removed.

to the other posts, this isn't about the disagree button. i agree it's a pointless feature though but what can we do, as ed1 says. ignore it.

05 Oct 2016 22:50:39
I didn't see the offending posts but it doesn't matter which club you support, disrespecting the memories and the families of those who suffered at Hillsbrough is totally unacceptable.
That said, our fanbase needs to get its own house in order with respect to tragedies like Munich.

05 Oct 2016 23:01:28
Very true indeed Ron.

05 Oct 2016 23:23:43
Any fellow United fan disrespecting the hillsborough tragedy is scum and no fan of United, not as far as I'm concerned. Same goes to any fans disrespecting the Munich victims. Life is more important that a game of football.

06 Oct 2016 01:50:18
Was the post anything to do with the book that's getting released. End of the day it's not good to mock any tragedy or loss of life, be that sport or otherwise.

06 Oct 2016 00:07:54
Stand-United - I couldn't agree more. it's just football. this we're talking about are PEOPLES lives. some just take it a step too far.

06 Oct 2016 10:42:10
Waro and fellow Reds and Eds,

Waro mate I feel your pain : (

Hillsborough is a very emotive subject, and there are cretins everywhere who use this, purely because it is so emotive and they know they will illicit an angry response. The same for Munich, and any other tragedy regardless of whether it is at a sports venue or any sort of accident. The loss of loved ones should never be used as a means of getting at a another human being, but it is such a sad indictment of today's society that innocent deceased can be mocked so easily, without a second thought to the feelings of those who are affected the most. The dead cannot respond to such mockery, but the living will always do so against anyone tarnishing their memories to the departed. Although it is difficult to ignore, don't let these people deter you from posting, if you do, you let them win. These people have the IQ of a dead slug, they are grade A moronic keyboard warriors; to quote Mark Twain " 'Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. '

Rise above this mate, Ignore the morons, you are better than this :)

Peace out to all
YNWA.

05 Oct 2016 11:47:08
Hi everyone, I've missed out on all the fun over the last few days, everyone seems mighty grumpy at the moment. I want to ignore all that and have a look at how we've started and talk about where we go from here.

The fact is, one slip up aside, we've had an great start to the season, we've beaten (or at least outplayed) four of our major rivals, we're in the CL spaces and we're only two points off the top. As it stands we're at least matching our ambition for the season and maybe even outstrip them (Ron, I know your ambition is to win the title but most of us had our bar a little lower) . The one caveat to this great news is our defence, we're yet to keep a clean sheet and we have to look down to 11th to find anyone who's conceded more.

The question now is do we stick or twist? I'm pretty confident that the current team playing the way it is now will make the top four, there's even a chance that we could nick the title but history doesn't really favour high scoring, high conceding teams in a title race. Although I'm sure Klopp will be fine-tuning things for the rest of the season the question is should he look to find that change that takes us from title hopeful to front runner?

To me, these are the areas where we could look to improve the team. First of all I'm going to rule out anything to do with keepers, Karius deserves and will get the chance to demonstrate whether or not he can develop into a world class keeper. Looking at the back 4 I back Matip and Clyne to be starters for years to come. I know Clyne has his detractors but I think a lot of the complaints come with the territory when you're a full back in Klopp's team. As for Matip it's early days but I'm quietly confident that we've got ourselves a gem. It's the other flank where gains can be made, Lovren is OK but we can improve on him and even if Sakho gets back in Klopp's good books I don't think he's the answer. I'm delighted with how Milner's doing on the left but could a genuinely class left back do even better? Milner can maintain his level for a few years yet but I would like us to be looking now for the guy who'll be our starter in two years time.

In midfield I'm over the moon at how Henderson's doing, I like nothing more than a player proving how wrong his detractors were. Lallana's doing the same, he's having his best season for us by a country mile, we need to judge him over a longer period of time but it looks like Klopp's figured out how to turn his undoubted ability into end product, a midfield birth is his to lose. The only area of doubt is Wiji. Don't get me wrong, he's been perfectly decent so far this season and he has plenty of time to be great for us but of all our players he's the one I'm least excited by. We've got Can and Grujic waiting in the wings who both have huge potential, if either of them force their way back into the team I think it will be at Wiji's expense.

As for our forward line I personally think Klopp should be doing more to find a way to include Sturridge, I will always maintain that he's too good to be a support player. I also don't think that Coutinho's best position is cutting in from the left. Having said that our forward line is on fire at the moment and any criticism is churlish. Mane's been brilliant, Firmino's doing exactly what Klopp wants him to do and Coutinho keeps demonstrating just how good he really is, can you believe he's only 24?

So what do you guys think, should the team be left alone for now or should Klopp be striving for another level?

05 Oct 2016 12:54:58
I think it should be left alone and agree only potential change if things don't improve at the back could be to try a new CB partnership with Matip, but I'd give it another few games before making that call - Lovrens been excellent at times and deserves the chance to build a partnership.

In midfield I don't see it as any one individual being a weak link but simply a potential of brinngin in horses for courses eg. Hendo, Llalana and Wiji is quite attacking setup, so for certain games perhaps we could look to Can or Stewart to lock things down. Likewise for some games I'd like to see Couts drop back live vs. Swansea.

In the forwards I'm perfectly happy with Couts, Firmino, Sturridge and Mane with Origi, Ings and Ojo in reserve. Who should play? I think Firmino, Sturridge and Mane personally but tough to leave Couts hence why I'd like to see him in midfield.

05 Oct 2016 13:23:30
personally I think Lovren has improved a great deal and could be the main man in our back 4 for the next few years if he continues to improve. Matip looked a bit shaky Saturday but I agree with you, I think we've bought a proper defender there. Milner hasn't put a foot wrong and you know what your going to get from him, like you say, a LB for the future is what's needed, one we can use now as cover and for cup games. Clyne is ok, great pace but just tends to switch off. I'd still have a fit Flanno in our back 4 any day. He's a proper full back!
Hendo is doing a very good job there at the moment, his energy and simple passing is great to watch. Lallana is now showing the form he did at Saints and has developed into a really important player for us under klopp! Wijnaldum does a lot of the unnoticed graft, the stuff that doesn't get you the headlines, but I think that's what's being asked of him. I like Emre Can in there with his physical presence and direct forward running and I think he's majorly unlucky to be out of the starting 11. Also Coutinho is effective from deep as his vision is brilliant and he gets his head up and terrifies the centre halves by running at them. But if he plays there then he needs 2 physical players in there to make up the 3, Hendo and Can are the obvious choice but I think Lallana has to play when fit. Mane and Firmino are looking very vary dangerous and teams must dread playing against the 2 of them. Who knows what level Firmino will reach but I think he will certainly become our main man. I don't agree with you about Sturridge though, he's a quality finisher and a top player but he just doesn't fit our style of play now, our game has moved on. He seems too laboured and can't press like it's expected from klopp. I think his past injuries are beginning to take their toll. I'm not saying he's a bad player, but I'd pick Origi over him now, his pace, power and direct running is a different threat for teams. That's just my view on things currently.

05 Oct 2016 16:58:11
This team needs to be left alone. There is a day and night difference in terms of confidence between this team and last year's (despite majority of the players being the same) . This year confidence is improving game after game, and that's the wave we need to ride to get to the finish line first (yes, I hope for us to finish first, you are reading me correctly! ) . Klopp is developping a core group of 15-16 players and that will be his rotation, except for injuries.

What stands out for me is the fact that Klopp knows his players now, and knows them really well. That's the reason for the success thus far (how many other managers would play Milner, Wijnaldum and Lallana where they are playing now? how many would continue with Henderson and Lovren after last year's form? ) . Certainly the most exciting times ahead since the last few years.

05 Oct 2016 22:01:39
The great thing is we are reaching the point where we have very competent pros in almost all positions, so future buys will be fewer- maybe one or two top quality players each year, and then only if they are better than what we have in their particular position.
That sort of stability has usually been a foundation for the winning teams.
By the end of this season the current squad will be performing like a highly tuned machine and will probably come within half a dozen points of winning the league, but personally I would agree that if a top top quality LB and CB were available, they might make the first team even stronger.

07 Oct 2016 17:46:45
No matter how good you are, there is always someone better at it. The keep is the ability to adapt, a plan B if you will. ManCity were out pressed but Spurs. What if we meet a team who can do the same to us. I trust Klopp, but I remember Ed02 saint something about he being found out. He needs more than one trick.

05 Oct 2016 09:08:58
{Ed's Note - We have posted a new article entitled, Arsenal Premier League season so far

05 Oct 2016 09:34:29
Another good read, I actually think Arsenal this season will do well, I fear them more then Spurs to be honest. A loss and a draw then 5 wins off the bat. Wengers time is nearly up. he means business this year i think . Plus the Arsenal signings in the summer in my opinion was pretty spot on.