Liverpool Banter Archive October 06 2013

06 Oct 2013 21:24:39
Directing this towards YNWAdam after reading your post the other week about us being better without playing Gerrard & Lucas together. Was just wondering what your thoughts were on yesterday's game as you always provide a worthy insight. Did you see an improvement in the team & with Gerrard essentially taking up Lucas' role do you still feel that he would be better utilised as an impact sub? Cheers

07 Oct 2013 09:49:51
Hi mate. I was pleased to see Henderson given a go in midfield against Palace. I think his second half performance has really shown up Gerrard and Lucas. I don't know whether they are lazy, complacent or just unfit, but both seem to lose control of the game as it progresses beyond the 60 minute mark. I had considered the fact it could be Rodgers tactics though. He does seem to want to blitz the opposition for 30/40minutes then try and hit them on the counter. I think this is Rodgers trying to accommodate Gerrard if I'm being honest. Gerrard cannot maintain the tempo for more than that but he can play defence splitting long passes that are perfect for counter attacks. Unfortunately though, because he cannot maintain the tempo and must spend an hour of every game conserving energy we drop deeper, which is why we have conceded 6 out of 7 goals this season in the second half and only scored 1 in the second and admittedly 2 in the cup ties extra time. If you are sitting back, its obvious the opposition will be getting more possession and higher up the pitch for that matter. If Rodgers wants to persist with this counter attacking approach, he cannot drop Gerrard. However Hendo provides more energy and pressing than Lucas so I'd play a Gerrard-Hendo partnership. My preference though would be for us to maintain the high tempo all game and blitz the opposition from start to finish. It was Rafa's defensive counter attacking football that resulted in so many bore-draws. Therefore I'd prefer to see a Hendo-Lucas partnership with Coutinho ahead of them in the hole. That's not to say Gerrard has no role to play. We seriously lack an impact player on our bench. Gerrard can still maintain a high tempo for at least 30 minutes. I'd still love to see him given Coutinho's free role for half an hour. I would rather have 'Steven Gerrard' for half an hour. Defensively he is very poor positionally and closes people down at the wrong moments allowing the midfield to be bypassed (Shelveys goal vs Swansea is the perfect example). In a forward position he will not be relied on to maintain shape. He'd be a match winner again. I tend to believe Lucas is a bit of a sheep and that when Gerrard drops deeper to conserve evergy, he does the same. Therefore I believe that alongside Hendo, he'd continue to press higher up the pitch. It all depends on where Rodgers is planning on going with this team. If he is going to carry on playing the second half on the counter, Gerrard is undroppable. Lucas or Hendo will never play a 50 yard cross field screamer! I read Hendos post match interview though and apparently Rodgers asked the team to maintain the tempo and not lose control of the game. Obviously Henderson was the only player who heard that, but you could tell Rodgers wasn't happy with the second half. As I say though, it's down to Rodgers really. He is the one making Gerrard look bad by mismanaging him. So long as we keep winning, he'll keep getting away with it. As soon as the team hits a bad patch though, he'll be ripped to shreds by the trolls and the media. I don't think it's disrespectful to put a legend on the bench. Last time I checked, Fergie did it to Giggs, Ferdinand and Scholes regularly. You have to utilise players in a way that gets the best out of them and for that reason, I cannot justify Gerrard being utilised in a way that only gets 50% out of him just so he can be on the pitch all game. Rodgers system is very dependant on youth and energy and once again that showed against Palace. Can I just add as well that Sterling had a great game in my mind. He gave away a silly free kick but it was Enrique, Gerrard and Toure's lack of communication that resulted in the free kick going in. They all stood there and waited for somebody elae to mark the Palace man, and in the process completely blocked Mingolets view. Sterling would never have even been in that position had we not lost control of the game anyway. He also won a penalty that despite being soft, was a clear penalty if we are going by the rules. Hope this answers your question though mate.

YNWAdam

That's a good read mate, I'd agree with everything, there is absolutely no need to have Gerard trying to bust his b*lls for 90 minutes, the team is solid enough nowadays, gud defence and attack, our weakest area is in midfield however I do think a different approach with the same players would do the job just fine.

Thanks for the reply Adam, very informative as always! I think you're slowly starting to convince me that Gerrard would in fact make a good substitute for Coutinho in the last half hour of a game. It is a bit of a dilemma for Rodgers atm, but one which I'm more than happy for him to have as long as we keep winning. Personally, I can't see Gerrard being dropped anytime soon simply because Brendan wouldn't have the guts. He's been in charge for just over a year now & a decision which would see our 'captain fantastic' dropped to the bench can only be measured as high risk? A lot of fans would be oblivious to the tactical approach which you've just described & mixed in with a few bad results it could end up getting very ugly. As for Sterling, I too thought he played well yesterday although I just don't like the idea of him playing RWB & I think we would get punished playing him there against stronger sides. Here's hoping Johnson will be back after the international break because he's always been a player we don't fullly appreciate until he's out of the team.

Agree with pretty much everything you said too, Adam.
Except for your view that Sterling had a good game?
I thought he was woeful, as does everyone else I've spoke to since the match.
He gave the ball away pretty much everytime he had it, was indecisive in possession and is so lightweight it is unreal.
The penalty he won was actually a free kick on the edge of the box, and he dived to make it look worse too!
As for the the free kick he gave away for the goal, this was totally avoidable and while I agree we should have defended it better, it should never have been a situation we found ourselves in in the first place.
I like the lad, and want him to succeed, but he needs to try a lot harder, and play with his head not just his pace.
By the way, anyone saying he played RWB are wrong too.
BR played a 3-4-1-2 formation, so the midfield was simply a flat 4.
Sterling played RW, Enrique was actually the one out of his natural position (used as a LW).
No-one seems to have mentioned that though?!

But, not trying to have a go unnecessarily mate; I really think you're spot on with your analysis and opinion regarding Gerrard and Lucas etc.
I actually think Lucas needs to pick up his game too; the constant yellow cards are a sign that he is too slow in the tackle at the moment (or is it maybe he's forced to press and tackle too much, when Stevie's not pulling his weight?)

07 Oct 2013 12:35:12
I appreciate what you are saying Tonic with regards to Sterling, but when I say he had a great game that is when taking all factors into account. If he was an experienced pro playing his natural position, I'd say he played very average. However he is an 18 year old playing out of position. I have an idea why you think we did not play with wing backs. A right wing back is essentially a right midfielder with a few more defensive duties. Enrique and Sterling still had a lot of defensive duties and were required to track back to provide width to the defence. There is a fine line between a right midfielder and a right wing back, but there is a slight difference. There is certainly a massive difference between a right wing back and a right winger! A right winger plays on the right side of a front 3. Sterlings natural position is actually on the left side of a front 3. It was all through his youth career and at the start of last season. So while I see your point that Sterling was not compeltely out of position as he has still been trianed to play the flanks, he was operating on the opposite side of the pitch to which he is accustomed, and with a lot more defensive duties, be that as a right midfielder or as a right wing back (however you chose to look at the formation really). I think when judging a player you judge them relatively, and how many 18 year old left wingers would've played that well at right wing back/right midfield? Probably not many, if any at all. Thanks for all the replies by the way and I hope I manage to convince you fully Irish! A lot of people have gotten the wrong idea and seem to think I don't rate Gerrard which is simply not the case. I just want him utilised differently.

YNWAdam

07 Oct 2013 12:59:19
Tonic? Sorry thought I typed it all out. Torbens picnic*

YNWAdam

07 Oct 2013 13:30:04
YNWA.
Just one question to you. Is Kelly better than Sterling in that Position?
I think Yes. He would have done a pretty good job defending and he is pretty ok going forward.
Y was he not picked is beyond me.

07 Oct 2013 14:18:51
When fit, yes Harry. Kelly would be much better at right wing back than Sterling. He's suprisingly quick and very good going forward. However in this system, the wing backs do more running than any other player on the pitch and considering Kelly is just back from an ACL injury, I'd think that's why he didn't play. Only Rodgers and the fitness team will know the true answer, but my guess is they are protecting Kelly from another long lay off that would essentially end his career at Liverpool.

YNWAdam

07 Oct 2013 15:40:46
YNWA.
Kelly is availble from Weeks for selection. He didn't even make it to the bench to come on after 60-70 mts.

Adam, even taking into account Sterlings offensive display only he was still poor, as for him playing right instead of left, I think he is right footed yes? so when he plays on the left he cuts in and shoots/passes with his stronger right foot, so why when playing on the right on saturday why did he many times cut/drift inside on his left and weaker foot? Poor game whatever way you try and portray it.

Give him some time, last season he was good and got a few goals, the young lad has been through a lot this past few months just needs to get his confidence back. but he wouldn't find it reading this site.

08 Oct 2013 00:15:06
I thought Raheem had a decent game.Not good, not bad, he tracked his player well, but his final tackle wasn't great ( work needed ) also his final ball into the box could do with a bit more composure ( work needed )
But please bear in mind his young age, he is still learning the game at the top level, I think he will make a tidy little player, he reminds me of Macca when he runs with the ball, the defenders don't know which way he is going to go, hence the penalty at the weekend.
Get behind our players and support them! Would you rather see him play for the Mancs?

06 Oct 2013 19:01:52
Fantastic results for Liverpool this weekend. As for the recent Sterling debate some of you guys have to give him time, he's 18! Not everyone can be a Michael Owen. One thing I would say though is I don't think Aspas is good enough, still early days but I don't see anything special about him, I hope in time he proves me wrong but I can't see any qualities in the lad which would make BR buy him

06 Oct 2013 20:55:23
I think he was bought to cover the first 6 games.
Its shame he isn't getting any game.
games like yesterday 3-0 scoreline, he should be put in place of sturridge or suarez.

06 Oct 2013 18:18:37
Great result and I agree with BR, can't take games for granted as practice make perfect and we'd not want to do this against a top team. A problem that i've witnessed over the past couple of seasons is that the goals scored only comes from our forward line and hardly any where else and I do believe we desperately need goal scoring midfielders which means we are doomed if the forwards have an off day or rough patch, just saying no club wins silverware or achieve success in CL qualifying with just forwards banging in goals. It was good to see moses score from open play, we need more of this to progress. BTW please give Ibe a chance BR he looks so direct and full of eagerness to score or create. YNWA cheers mates.

Do you not think?
I swear United havé been getting away with it for years. Agree it would be nice though

06 Oct 2013 18:03:10
Fabulous Sunday with Tottenham being eaten up by West Ham and Arsenal being drawn at Westbrom and we stay at the top for the next 2 weeks. I was not expecting this especially seeing Spurs being destroyed at White Hart Lane. Wow what a Sunday!

Agree with some of your post blood red, but the mistake in it is that we are joint top with the gooners and on paper we sit second .sorry mate

Agree with some of your post kingluis74, but the mistake in it is that arsenal are called "the gunners" it is their supporters that are called "gooners".sorry mate

06 Oct 2013 17:49:23
For all them cussing the youngsters such as sterling hope your watchin ravel morrison ex Manchester United youngster yess he had problems and united dint keep faith but look at him now what a good player he has become

Keep faith in young sterling hel become a top player one day

Abbas lfc

Can everyone who is complaining about certain players (sterling/henderson/aspas)getting stick for below par performances get off their high horses, Nobody is asking for them to be flogged in the centre circle as pre-match entertainment they are just saying they are not good enough to play for our club at the moment, and very few if any are saying the players getting criticised will never
make it as good succesful players

{Ed002's Note - Thanks but we don't want to get in to gossip.}

06 Oct 2013 15:48:51
Hi Eds and fellow fans

BR is absolutely right when he's not happy with the team's performance in what he called 'lack of control'. Don't the rest of us feel sometimes in matches we tend to be on the edge of losing control? He kicked a few water bottles around yesterday and hopefully will drill into players' heads to don't let games go and keep holding games by the scruff of their necks.
Very happy otherwise. YNWA

06 Oct 2013 13:10:22
{Ed033's Note - New blog entitled 'Liverpool are years ahead of other clubs' by poster, RuddocksForehead, now on the Liverpool Blogs page

06 Oct 2013 16:16:01
Just read it mate. Short and sweet. I thought it was a good read and you made some good points. The only part I'd personally disagree with is that we are years ahead of the other teams. I think for a long time, we've been years behind. We are now catching up financially and as you say, we've over taken most in terms of youth. However Tottenham and Arsenal in particular have some great youngsters. I do believe ours will prove to be better though. Perhaps I'm biased, but we'll find out In the coming years. Great read though mate.

YNWAdam

06 Oct 2013 13:12:47
I prefer going to aways these days, as the atmosphere is much better. Everyone stands up, plenty of singing, a bit of pyro, it's much better craic all together.
But what I would ask Waro, Ozone etc is how comes LFC tickets are available through touts / agencies whatever the game?
Surely it's the beloved season ticket holders who are selling them on and making money.
This is a real issue for most of the top clubs, not just Liverpool.
I don't know what the answer is. If you're not a STH it's tough to get hold of a face-value ticket, unless you know someone.
But there must be people who are making a mint out of the match.
It's a shame. And doing it via these people is sometimes more expensive than Thomas Cook.
So it's not that simple lads. There's lots of fans who are trying to get in to games but any means possible. But it doesn't mean we don't sing.

Im Australian, currently living in Canada. I've been to Anfield 5 or 6 times over the lat 5 years and have struggled to get tickets. Luckily I still have family in Liverpool and they've known someone with a season ticket that have helped us out. I was in the front row a couple of years back against Wigan when they led twice and we still won 3-2 from a dirk kyut winner. great experience!

06 Oct 2013 11:42:53
Before you judge any player you need to take into consideration the key factors which may affect whether the player does or does not perform to the standard expected.

1) How old is the player?
2) Is the player playing in his 'most effective' position?
3) Has the player been playing regular football?

For example.
Sterling has been subject to criticism for his performance yesterday and if you take into consideration the factors above it makes it easier to understand why his performance yesterday was not his best.

1) He is 18 years old.
2) He was played out of position.
3) The game yesterday was his first start of the season.

In my opinion he did well yesterday and offered a more attacking approach as opposed to Henderson's defensive approach. His only fault was the free kick which he conceded but he is not familiar with the RWB position. His strength is his pace and ability to go forward. His physical stature and lack of experience affected his defensive capabilities but for me he did a decent job.

When the team is not performing and are sitting in mid-table I can understand the frustration of the fans but when we are sat at the top of the league and every player is giving their all (even when asked to play out of position) I can not understand why "fans" can criticise certain players. There is always room for improvement and in our case we as a team need to improve our second half performances but common sense should tell you why individual players do not perform as well as they have in previous games.

Red Rum

Nothing like moving the goal posts to suit ure argument is there!

Difficult situation for Sterling.

He has been thrust into a situation (first team at LFC at top of the table) for which he is not ready.

But he cannot get better unless he plays.

But the more he plays, the more criticism he can expect.

The concern is that he is now no better than he was a year ago.

A loan more for him in January, perhaps?

06 Oct 2013 00:25:50
Henderson is going to cause BR a few headaches when we have our full squad back. top notch again

Excellent again. He provides much needed energy to the midfield, especially in Lucas' absence today. He also has a lot of quality and much like Lucas is now a very important member of the team, unfortunately they both become scapegoats when we don't perform. Personally he's needed for balance, if possible in certain games i'd like to have the option to take Gerrard off a bit earlier and move Hendo more central. might preserve Gerrard a bit longer for the course of the season.

06 Oct 2013 09:53:09
Drop Mosses and free up gerrard to forward with sturridge and suarez.
Hendo looks solid in the middle and would do very good with lucas.
But As it always happened, BR would put him again at RWB.

Drop Gerrard more like it Harry. If BR plans on playing both SAS, and with everyone fit and in contention, Gerrard is the one who needs to go to the bench. Defensively he simply isn't good enough to play a holding role, and for me he unbalances our side, and if it wasn't for the 'C' next to his name, he would be on the bench already as he is simply not performing effectively enough.

Neither Gerard nor Moses should be dropped because I believe Henderson is not yet technically prepared to play holding midfield against the bigger teams and he should be one to be replaced by Coutinho.

06 Oct 2013 21:00:27
Nonsesne. so u rate Moses better than henderosn?
Jesus christ.