Liverpool Banter Archive December 07 2015

 

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07 Dec 2015 21:08:45
The biggest mystery to me is why tex is not being used in some capacity, Rogers didn't fancy him either, can anyone explain why this maybe?

Believable3 Unbelievable1

07 Dec 2015 21:31:05
People whinge about this player not being in the squad and that player not being in the squad, the same was said about Suso who as done absolutely nothing since leaving the club and is likely to be sold again, also the same with Ilori people were going must over him but what as he actually achieved? We need to trust KLOPP.

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07 Dec 2015 21:39:46
He's still developing.

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07 Dec 2015 22:39:00
People on here do count their chickens a bit, but in his one game is year he did impress, seems odd he hasn't featured at all.

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08 Dec 2015 00:53:42
I'm sure he would have gotten a run this week if he'd been registered. I also think Klopp is still trying to figure out his first team and will get around to integrating youth once he has a solid core. Not many youngsters have had much time apart from FB where we needed the cover to rest players.

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08 Dec 2015 01:05:34
I think he's still trying out all his players.
Tex did enough in his one appearance for Klopp to know he has a future.

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08 Dec 2015 05:39:58
There are 4 players ahead of Tex in the pecking order and as such, it is taking Klopp time to see how suitable that 4 is before turning to squad players. When there is an opportunity, he has put in Randall and earlier Brannagan and Tex, but with us getting to the semis of the League Cup and our Premier League having intermittent dips, and with Tex not registered for EL and the FA Cup yet to start, opportunities have been scant. I expect Tex to get more chances after the new year.

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{Ed001's Note - you are right, it is much easier to take a look at Randall, for instance, as there are not many other options to consider. Whereas Teixeira has to fight over a whole bunch of other players, who need to be tried out before they can be discarded.}

08 Dec 2015 06:22:21
We need wingers. How about Kent? Right now I would give anyone a go ahead of Milner on the flanks. Anyone?

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07 Dec 2015 21:03:15
I won`t give up on him yet because he has all the tools and the fact that Klopp wanted him to replace Lewa showed at least at the time, that he had a plan for him so I`ll let the man coach him up BUT he will need to up his game because Klopp won`t wait around too long. As for Milner and Allen? They should be shown the door because they are simply not good enuff especially Milner who is just aweful. At least Allen has been solid in games. I haven`t watched a game where Milner played well this year apart from the Villa game at Anfield.

Believable4 Unbelievable4

08 Dec 2015 00:04:46
Strange about Milner because he has proven over the last few season he has qualities to offer except just running around. At times he's saved city, hopefully he will settle in a bit more. Allen has had long enough.

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08 Dec 2015 04:04:22
Agree Fencey, I still think he brings something to the side even if it hasn't quite clicked for him yet.

Eg. you could see him coming on in a tough spot in cup final and hoping he'll regain control of midfield for you.

You can't say that for some others in the squad.

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{Ed001's Note - why do people keep saying Klopp wanted Benteke at Dortmund? It is not true, that is not what he said. He said they were aware of his qualities, but nothing about wanting to sign him.}

08 Dec 2015 05:47:33
I think Klopp wants to give Benteke, like Allen or Milner, an opportunity to show what he can do, and give him time to see if he can adapt to the demands Klopp sets out, and that is commendable. But these players need to start performing soon or I think Klopp will stick to the ones who does what he wants, and make them peripheral players before moving them on. So, if Beneteke wants to fit in, he needs start showing better movement, and if he hasn't been doing that ever, he better start it now. If Allen wants a new contract, he needs to be able to show more in midfield than the powder-puff stuff we see from him, and etc.

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08 Dec 2015 09:08:17
Thanks ed word for word what I posted the other day.

He said they knew about him but not that they thought 1/ he was good enough for Dortmund or 2/ that he was a good player but didn't suit Jurgens way of playing.

Its grinding on me same way as Origi must be great because Klopp wanted him at Dortmund.

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08 Dec 2015 06:25:18
AG

Financially that would be a disaster for the club. Benteke is far from a rookie. He joined Liverpool to play the main man and we did pay 35 mill for him.

How do you think the club would sell him? Pretty much the case with Milner. There wouldn't be any takers for Milner with the wage we pay him.

We need to plan a different set up to utilise Benteke and I am pretty sure Klopp would have got that at Newcastle.

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08 Dec 2015 12:40:33
What? So, Klopp should forego his management and coaching style to fit in Benteke because financially it is a burden for Liverpool? There is so much nonsense in that post Harry, I really don't know here to begin!

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08 Dec 2015 14:22:35
Then Ed, I am truly sorry because I thought I read somewhere that Klopp was interested in Benteke at BVB. My apologies for the mixup.

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{Ed001's Note - it was spin, he just said he was aware of Benteke's abilities and that became spun by the media.}

07 Dec 2015 17:57:00
Jurgen - we played rubbish.
Brendan - we showed outstanding character in our performance!
Im just so glad the pretenders gone an we got a man with a plan.
He will get it right lads but he needs time and patience and we really couldn't have got a better man for the job.
Its a crap result itl always happen i had a feeling it would yest but onwards and upwards ✊.

Believable16 Unbelievable0

07 Dec 2015 18:02:27
I am glad you think so highly of Rodgers because your home city could very well end up with him when they sack Monk.

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07 Dec 2015 19:56:53
I wouldn't be impressed if he returned garry should be given time.
The swans are struggling but this is the liverpool site.
I go to watch the swans because its my local team an iv been going since i was 7 but my heart belongs to liverpool always has.

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07 Dec 2015 20:59:03
Ignore him Swanseared, I don't think he understood your post.

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07 Dec 2015 21:51:50
I certainly understood his post. I also live in Swansea and Liverpool are my no 1 team. Most of my friends are Swans season ticket holders and they all have a good opinion of what Rodgers did for Swansea in getting them to the premiership. Maybe not good enough for Liverpool, but if you have been going since you were 7 then you have seen the rubbish we had to put up with for years before Martinez and Rodgers.

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07 Dec 2015 22:10:08
And now Swansea have the best manager out of all 3.

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07 Dec 2015 22:34:53
Rodgers didn't do a great deal mate he just carried forward with what was already in place. I wasnt fussed on him at swansea 2 be fair an i certainly wasnt expecting him 2 last 3 years at liverpool and he got found out eventually.
Jurgen has come in an instantly these not good enough players are performing a lot better?

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07 Dec 2015 22:45:38
Yes red iv stood on the north bank during the 4th division days i remember lol.

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08 Dec 2015 09:29:17
You couldn't have been for away from me then, because there wasn't many of us there in those days. On a more serious note if Monk doesn't leave the Swans will get relegated.

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07 Dec 2015 17:12:34
............dribbling removed.........

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{Ed002's Note - I am sure there is indeed a trail of slime left behind you.}

07 Dec 2015 17:01:21
{Ed's Note - We have posted a new article entitled, Not Quite Manchester United For Ron Vlaar as Chelsea struggles continue

Believable0 Unbelievable0

07 Dec 2015 15:41:48
Ed001 do you think Origi will be second choice behind Sturridge now? And will Klopp look to get Hendo fit and in the team asap to replace Milner? Thanks again. Keep up the great work.

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{Ed001's Note - it is a squad game, it doesn't work like that. Klopp will use what is available to him when he believes they are needed.}

07 Dec 2015 16:52:05
I just think Benteke dosent suit the high pressing game Klopp wants, is he willing to learn who knows he has only been with the club a matter of months so patience is needed with him. He was a question mark of a buy even when rodgers was there as the fast forward isn't his game, but he is here now so we either play to his ability or we use him as an expensive plan B. i would like to see both him and sturridge up top see what they can come up with together. Klopp said the lewondoski only scored 8 goals in his first season when he was bought and look at him now, don't get me wrong i am not saying Klopp will strike twice in the sense of making benteke as good as lewondoski but it is obvious klopp knows how to make a good striker. It is a shame that Danny S is so injury prone because that is one player i could see Klopp making world class.

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07 Dec 2015 18:34:26
My money is on Ings to become world class under Klop.

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07 Dec 2015 21:20:31
ings world class? no. A valuable squad member who can always be relied on more than origi and benteke? yes.

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07 Dec 2015 14:27:32
Its games like yesterdays that will help Klopp sort the chaff from the wheat. I think we will see some surprising exits from the team in the summer not overly surprised by yesterdays result with 6 changes from Wednesday its not hard to see who is lacking and who will be going.
I too have been shocked by lovrens turn around maybe he has suddenly realized he is playing for his future some others need to make a similar judgment.

Believable6 Unbelievable1

07 Dec 2015 13:30:47
As Klopp said the loss hurts but I am really not that pissed off. I know we can play much much better and we will surely get there.

I don't know why we played so poorly, but I do know every one of those players are much more capable as shown in previous few weeks.

I am guessing all the media hype got to them and they arrived at Newcastle feeling they already won and didn't need to work hard.

Well this is EPL for you, nobody can be taken lightly ask City or Chelsea

Anyways back to earth and let's get back to work!

Believable4 Unbelievable0

08 Dec 2015 00:38:52
This is exactly what i was planning to post thanks mate. Also not too disappointed, this was always going to be a finding his feet season and its a bonus that the team is delighting us with some great performances. No doubt klopp will quickly bring back the feelgood factor to both the club and fans alike. I do love klopp.

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07 Dec 2015 13:26:08
You lot do make me laugh. Last weekend after the Swansea win i was shot down for saying title talk was premature. A week later and people think we're mid table with a squad full of average players.

Honestly lads it's like living with a bunch of bipolar fans. We are top 4 contenders. That is what we were a week ago, and that is what we are today.

Can we please stop getting carried away after a win and then cuting our wrists after a loss though? I can't keep up with the emotions.

Believable18 Unbelievable16

07 Dec 2015 14:19:26
One game doesn't define anything, I'm not expecting a title but it's not unrealistic. City lost is there season over? Arsenal lost last week, did there season end there? The improvement we've had in the last few weeks in performances alone should be encouraging, bar Newcastle, I don't think coming on here saying 'I told you so' because we lost is a good reaction.

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07 Dec 2015 14:30:41
You ok Hun?

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07 Dec 2015 14:34:17
Top 4 should be a realistic target. Klopp will make changes in the summer go from there.

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07 Dec 2015 15:05:33
I would be ecstatic with a top 4 spot, at the expense of Utd. That would be lovely.

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07 Dec 2015 17:00:29
I agree with whatever east Midlands scouser says! Lol.

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07 Dec 2015 17:48:25
The way this season is going, if you're a top 4 contender, you're probably a title contender.

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07 Dec 2015 14:07:39
Tbh this is one fine chance to aim at the title. You don't see all three of Arsenal, City and Chelsea struggling so bad in a single season.

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07 Dec 2015 18:37:33
I see a cup and champion's league qualification as realistic.

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07 Dec 2015 21:03:02
"The way this season is going, if you're a top 4 contender, you're probably a title contender. "
=======================
Could n't be put any better .
I think we are in the race for both.

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07 Dec 2015 21:14:40
Why should we not aspire to win the title in a season where NOBODY is interested in actually winning the league? We lost a game. Big Deal! that doesn`t mean that we should just lay down and say "well, might as well not bother competing for it". I know we need to calm down and walk before we run BUT if we can take a stab at it after january and we`re right in the mix for it, why not? Don`t get me wrong, i would be chuffed with a trophy and top 4 BUT if it`s not the other teams, Why can`t it be us?

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07 Dec 2015 22:13:01
RO if you're going to say why can't we go for the title. Don't follow it up with no ones interested, If we're going to aim for 1st, why can't leicester? I certainly think they're ''interested'' pal.

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07 Dec 2015 23:12:24
You made my point for me, Boba. You think Leicester would say, oh no, we don't care about the title if they had a real chance at it. You need to re read my post, Boba. I said that if the other teams are laying eggs all over the place, why can't we get ahead of them PROVIDED we handle our business because as I said earlier, if the other teams can't get it done by handling their own business, why not us?

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08 Dec 2015 03:17:18
EMS - you have been around more than long enough mate. Surely you aren't surprised? It has always been that way. I love it - it is the pure highs and lows of footy mate. I love roller coaster rides!

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07 Dec 2015 11:13:47
Well, what can I say about that. I think that is the first time I personally think Klopp got the team set up wrong. Benteke was extremely poor yesterday. When Moreno crossed that ball to an empty box, Benteke only started to run when he realised he should have been on the end of it. His movement was terrible and I only counted two or three headers he won all game.
Jordan Ibe once again looked threatening; however, I have one niggling issue, his final ball. He does everything right up to his final pass. The amount of times he under-hit a simple 5 yard pass, or ran into trouble was so frustrating. Luckily, this type of stuff comes with experience, so can’t be too hrsh on him, was our most dangerous player.
Jo Allen was again rather limp. He just does not contribute either defensively (being shoved off the ball far too easily numerous times) or offensively. As for Milner, I didn’t even know he was on the pitch most of the time. Far too ineffective. I think the combination of both those players made life very difficult for Lucas in the middle.
Firmino was very quiet, though I do think the last few games may have had a factor in this as it seemed more a fitness thing to me.
One our major problems the last few years have been failing to capitalise on other teams dropping points. This was a game we should have won and closed the gap on the top four. However, we didn’t, and fair play to Newcastle, they deserved it. I won’t moan too much as it is still very early days for Klopp, and we are still well within touching distance of the top four.

Believable8 Unbelievable2

07 Dec 2015 11:51:02
Great post, Stuie. We need to learn from this slip up because it's the first game under Klopp where we were aweful from the first whistle.

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07 Dec 2015 12:07:42
Benteke is no better than carrol imo very lazy I was shocked at how poor he was yesterday. Firmino is a poor Coutinho an to be honest from what I have seen ba the city game he has been very average.

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{Ed001's Note - give him some movement around him and he will be fine, play him alongside a lamp post like Benteke and he will struggle.}

07 Dec 2015 12:20:02
Agreed Ed, that's three times I've watched him with Benteke now, and he's been completely ineffective.

Looks to me like he's giving Benteke a chance to either prove or hang himself. it's the latter at the moment, due to his inability to work effectively.

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07 Dec 2015 13:15:11
Have to agree with Ed. Benteke's lack of movement really hindered and will continue to hinder those around him. The thing is, he's technically great and can pull a goal out of nowhere. I just don't think he's going to suit Klopp. I still rate him. He'd be a great supersub, but he will want and probably expect to be a starter.

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07 Dec 2015 21:16:11
After a 35m pound Plan B in Carroll, we may now be saddled with another 33m pound Supersub. Great business by the LFC family!

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08 Dec 2015 00:59:11
He may not suit us just yet but he's no Carroll and he might just learn. not sure why we keep trying to buy target CF's though (Lambert, Balotelli, Benteke under BR alone! ) when we're so obviously short of wingers and all our attacking miss prefer to keep the ball on the turf.

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07 Dec 2015 10:52:06
Question for Ed001 if possible. You mentioned before about Martin Škrtel 'dropping off' or 'running back to his own goal' and it was something that i had never noted. Was yesterday an example of that? Am not blaming Skrtel for the loss at all, we were shocking in most places yesterday. When i see Sakho in such circumstances he tends to go towards the opponent fast and hard. Yesterday Skrtel seemed to back off until there was no more pitch left.

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{Ed001's Note - there were a couple of instances were he ran away instead of holding the attacker up. It was quite worrying that he reverted back to type so quickly.}

07 Dec 2015 11:58:08
It was moments of self doubt, IMO because we were not playing well hence, no confidence in doing the right thing so, go back to doing the same thing you know even if it's the wrong thing.

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07 Dec 2015 12:57:53
For Newcastle's first Skrtel dropped 5 yards deeper than the rest of the defence. This gave Wijnaldium space to run into which shouldn't have been there. Skrtel's big mistake was made right before he turned it into his own net!

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07 Dec 2015 13:41:58
The clyne challenge at the edge if the area was most significant. Skrtel drops 5 yards past the defnesive line playing cisse on. He then dropped 20 attempting to hold cisse up and then fell and flung out a leg in the box and was lucky clyne got there.

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07 Dec 2015 10:45:55
Reading down the page, there seems a touch of negativity creeping in after a loss, towards the team in general and certain players. I'm going to keep this simple, in a year to eighteen months, we will have lots of changes in the squad ( I expect sturridge and benteke to be gone with quite a few others) and this fella will have us challenging for the league and champions league, so be patient it's on its way, don't worry and over analyse it. Good times are on the way!

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07 Dec 2015 11:20:31
Thanks Waro, your positivity has cheered me up a little.

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07 Dec 2015 10:59:05
It's not about the loss Waro, The manner yes.
We had / has no clue on teams who sit deep and make it compact.
Our players play through the middle
We have no idea how to utilize the tall man up front
We need to put in crosses, which we have a complete failure since start of the season.

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07 Dec 2015 14:25:13
Newcastle certainly didn't sit deep.
They just covered man for man and matched our work ethic, saying they sat deep is an insult to the way they played.

We were giving width, just benteke didn't move, this is evidenced by the fact Ibe constantly ran inside with the ball rather than cross because benteke was a statue, Moreno pretty much gave up crossing in and overlapping because of our lack of players int he box.

We have every idea how to utilise the tall man, we've shown it in other matches, it doesn't help when the tall man is static and marked by both central defenders.

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07 Dec 2015 17:30:23
I doff my cap, Waro, excellent sentiment and my feelings (almost) exactly.

I do believe Benteke won't be here, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Studge still will be, along with Origi and Ings, albeit we may have another star (probably found by Klopp) up front too.

That's enough gazing into my crystal balls as their starting to ache.

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07 Dec 2015 08:44:37
Good Afternoon Eds, been frequent visitor of this site for last 6 years although posting for the first time. I will be grateful if Ed01 can reply to my questions
1) My first question is about the future of james milner, his only ability which was worth something was his delivery in dead ball situations which has even suffered massively after joining LFC and considering how poor he has been what do u think about his long term future at anfield under klopp, certainly texiera cannot perform much worse than him so why not play him on the right or just behind striker, which can turn out to be a good learning curve for him?
2) My second question is about the role of joe allen in current squad, after watching him for over 2 years i have failed to understand that what exactly he offers which our youngsters like branagan or rossiter dont, so is it klopp just testing him out and if his poor forms continues is their any probability we might be seeing some youngsters in that role?

Believable5 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - I expect Milner to be moved on as soon as possible but it is not going to be easy to move him. Probably in the summer. You do not sit your top earner unless you really have to mate.

Klopp is taking a look at him, but he is also very likely to leave. Allen just fails to do enough to justify a place.}

07 Dec 2015 11:32:09
Edd001 milner has been the obvious one but benteke Imo has to do a lot more or he too should be shown the door. Ings atleast put the work in on the pitch, origi aswell. They provided movement and options whilst benteke has probably half a tank left when the match ends. Just not good enough mate.
What I do like us klopp is honest and knows were we need strengthing in the Future. Still hoping for texeria to get more chances.

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{Ed001's Note - Benteke has the ability to be something special, it is such a shame he wastes his talent by standing around.}

07 Dec 2015 12:00:31
I believe Klopp will whip him into shape, Ed. As for Milner and Allen, they need to be moved on because they are passengers. One passenger is bad enuff on the pitch but two like it was yesterday, no thanks.

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{Ed001's Note - I disagree, Benteke has shown no sign that he has any intention of improving his movement.}

07 Dec 2015 13:24:06
Edd001 I don't believe it myself mate. To be something special even if you haven't got great great ability you put the work in on training and on the pitch. benteke isn't doing it. Has he got the hunger? I don't think soo.

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{Ed001's Note - he won't do it for his country either, which suggests it just is not him to do the work.}

07 Dec 2015 21:21:54
Then for sure Ed, he will need to go because Klopp doesn`t mess about.

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07 Dec 2015 08:57:54
I think we have to accept that at this point we are an 'exciting at times' and a bit unpredictable midtable team. In our last four games we lost two, and were lucky to win a third and then gave a great show in one game and in the league cup.

Spurs and Everton had some fantastic games this season, they have in form strikers and they know how to make the most of them (if Everton win today they will be above us in the table, if not Palace will) . So did WestHam and Palace. Still I am sure the fans of these teams didn't mention the title word and nor did they said they were confident they finish top 4. They have been there before many times and they know the key is consistency. Consistency also means if key players are injured (in our case Couts and Sturridge) and there is a drop in form, you will not make it to the top 4.

I think where we are now is better than where we were under BR which was unexciting midtable, because where we are now I can at least see us challange for some of the trophies like EL or FA/League cup. And if we improve maybe top6 in the league this season. For even challnging the top4 we need coutinho and Sturridge fit every game and maybe strengthening our midfield in January. But we are not there yet.


Since I mentioned Spurs and Everton strikers then I will add that in the debate developing here is Benteke our problem or those who sppose to serve him in midfield, I think the latter is the problem. I think that stirkers suchas Kane and Lukako wouldn't score many goals for us with the midfielders on the pitch yesterday. Nor would Martial.

Believable1 Unbelievable1

07 Dec 2015 09:30:32
10 games in, games coming thick and fast, injuries, suspensions.

It's early days and no surprise to me that we're inconsistent.
It's going to be like this all season, I'm hoping for a Europa League win.

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07 Dec 2015 09:31:00
If Everton draw with Palace, they will both be above us in the table.

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07 Dec 2015 09:41:23
The table means nothing before Christmas, look at Chelsea.

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07 Dec 2015 09:56:08
Replacing Milner and Allen with Henderson and Coutinho will make a big difference to our midfield. I think getting Sakho back in defence will also make a difference. Add a fit sturridge to that and in my opinion this is definately not a midtable team, its a high quality team that is more then capable of making top 4. The team is clearly still learning the new ways under new coaching staff and we are seeing now, albeit inconsistently at the moment, what the team is capable of. We are still in all the cups and not too far off top 4. I don't think its all that bad. I still think we are slowly building towards something special under what seems like a champion of a bloke and manager.

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07 Dec 2015 10:06:20
The table mean a lot before Xmas. Of course there will be changed but Chelsea will not win the league nor will we. Very likely that at least 3 out of the current top4 will be there come the end of season.

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07 Dec 2015 10:55:16
Before Christmas you haven't even played everyone else once, so team A will have played different teams to team B. That's why it's relatively meaningless IMO.
Chelsea can still win the league if they win every game from now until May. They are capable, they probably won't do it, but it's certainly possible.

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07 Dec 2015 12:38:42
Ron, its a bit like the golf majors, you can't win them in the first two days but you can lose them during those two days.

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07 Dec 2015 08:25:36
Taught benteke just had no interest in making runs or movement. Allen I don't rate has been here awhile and still hasn't won me over. Ibe has potential.

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07 Dec 2015 09:11:36
Will you get off Benteke's back? We had the same arguments about our strikers last year and we will ahve the same issues with any future striker if we don;t play better in midfield. Our midfielders passing, crossing and creativity other than Coutinho is poor and we have seen it again and again. Our final ball is awful. Ask any PL fan, which player of ours they would take to their team - Ibe, Milner, Firmino, Allen or Benteke and I promise you 99% will say Benteke.

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07 Dec 2015 09:16:12
Ibe as a hell of a lot to learn. I don, t think Benteke is the easiest to pick out with passes, but all season Jordan has done the same thing, fails to beat the last man. I do think he as potential, but at the moment he is too easy for experienced defenders to deal with. He should be brought into the match when the games stretched. I honestly think he's ineffective in a tight game. I know he's still young and I hope he can develop his game and become a top class player.

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07 Dec 2015 09:32:41
Benteke gives us options that the other strikers don't.
Yesterday we weren't set up right as a team and Newcastle were on it.
I can't blame Benteke yesterday, it was destined to fail. He'll come good for us, no danger.

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07 Dec 2015 10:32:59
I'm sorry but I don't agree. If the striker is never there, and doesn't look like he's trying to get there, when the ball is coming towards the box he can't complain about the service. Not once did I see Benteke where you'd expect him to be yesterday, and not once was it because he'd dropped deep to help the midfield or collect the ball - he was just slowly trotting to position. He needs to make a lot more effort to justify everyone changing their game for him.

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{Ed001's Note - I agree with you on that, he was annoying the crap out of me, all he needed to do was make a run.}

07 Dec 2015 11:15:39
There were 4 or 5 occasions yesterday where Benteke made no run at all.
One that I certainly remember was Moreno playing a first time ball square and not one red shirt made a move. (maybe around the 15 min mark)
But this happened a few times, certainly in the first half.

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07 Dec 2015 12:27:46
For Benteke not to be the 'option' he needs to buy into the process. A few watches of Lewandowski and how he operates wouldn't do him any harm.

That's if he can be bothered.

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07 Dec 2015 12:30:09
There were a few occasions where Benteke had 4 or 5 opponents around him. How can you make a run in this situation? They just track the run. Also when the "service" is all coming through the middle it makes it easy for the opposition to defend and difficult for your strikers to get free.
Benteke didn't play well yesterday but he wasn't helped by any of his team mates I'm afraid.

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{Ed001's Note - if you are stood still then that is why you end up with 4 or 5 around you. If you move, then you ensure that not all of them will go with you. The reason he was marked out of the game is because he was lazy, not because of the rest of the team.}

07 Dec 2015 13:54:18
Mourinho whipped a great first time cross deep into the box during the first half, no one was there; including Benteke.

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07 Dec 2015 23:24:58
Benteke gives us certain "options" in attack others players don't (he is good in the air as a target) but then, in reality, he removes far more options at the same time due to his many, many, limitations.

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08 Dec 2015 01:07:11
Ron if you make a run and 5 players follow you then that leaves a gaping hole in defence for Firmino and Ibe to exploit. Run all the way to the changing room if that happens!

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07 Dec 2015 08:16:56
Well lads last night was a shocker, that for me last night just cemented how much we need a quality midfielder. I've seen people on here blaming benteke Lucas Ibe ect ect the fact is that the whole team was poor. The defence just ball watched and we had no spine and was over run in midfield and the forwards made no options for one another. I feel aswell Klopp ( I can't believe I'm saying this) got it wrong he should of started the same squad he did at st Mary's. All this talk of the title is far to pre mature aswell however I do believe we can make top four. What a crazy season.

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07 Dec 2015 08:57:38
Sometimes you have to give the opposition credit, Newcastle raised their game and our pressing game was nullified because the game was allowed to be played in no mans land. We actually missed Can's Power and forward thinking alongside Lucas. Allen played next to Lucas and did the same old thing, try to keep possession at all cost. We had no creativity. Jordan Ibe and Firminho were closed down quickly. We played like Rodgers was still pulling the strings and Joe Allen (Take no chances Joe) played right into Newcastles hands. The Game was played out in the middle of the park and They put more men in there. I feel Klopp will learn from a bad day at the office.

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07 Dec 2015 06:12:35
I was confident all week. Then, just before the match, I felt we were not going to win this 1. The starting 11 didn't help me change my mind.
I really want/wanted Benteke to succeed at LFC. But he's just not suited to our squad (I won't say our game) .
I came onto the site to read what others felt. Wanted to see posts of what others felt about our disallowed goal. I knew there would be some critism of our team and players.
But, when I see comments of this nature "he isn't good enough for Lfc" it makes me wonder. How can we say Lucas isn't good enough? We are realistically aiming for top 4! We hope and dream about winning the leagu yes, but we aiming for just top 4 at this point. So I ask those who feel Lucas isn't good enough to play for LFC, who is a better defensive midfielder than Lucas in the league? Name me 4-6 so I can be convinced that Lucas isn't good enough for a top 4 contender.

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07 Dec 2015 07:57:56
Agree with this Andy, our squad was full of legends a week ago and now not good enough?!

This loss was largely due to setup of the team and a resulting lack of coordination or creativity IMO. The players weren't clicking, but a few tweaks and we can be back at the races.

For example Lucas looked bad, but the failure of and lack of coordination in our high press left him exposed. Likewise Firmino failed, but largely due to lack of movement and runs around him. play him next to Coutinho and Llalana and I expect he'll be a different player.

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07 Dec 2015 08:55:22
Agree Zimbo. Firmino is the typical Brazilian player player who thrives on quick one-twos, unexpected twists and turns and bursts of speed in small closed spaces. He's not a ball carrier who'll run up the sidelines and whip crosses in for Benteke's head. My concern with him is more with the physical part of his game. Based on what I had read, I expected him to be more robust from his German league experience, but I see him avoiding challenges and staying out of 50-50 tackles. That's not going to gel well with the pressing game Klopp wants to instill, even though he did a masterful job of pressing in the ManC game.

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07 Dec 2015 09:32:36
People really do over react. Agreed milner is very poor and needs to be moved on. The loss was due to a bad selection and poor performance all round. 3 points lost, move on and focus on winning the next game. We are not going to win the title! Klopp is doing a great job but he is still getting to know his players and he has not had the chance to bring in any players yet. Just get behind the team and be realistic. YNWA.

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07 Dec 2015 10:07:48
Top Boy, Klopp himself has been critical of the performance and yes you are right to bring up over reacting, but being realistic we should have easily won that game yesterday. Newcastle raised their game, and we failed to match them. A bad day at the office, yes but you were wrong to say we shouldn. t expect to go to Newcastle and win, they are a poor side. I have no doubt Klopp will put that performance behind us like most supporters should, yes get behind the team. We should beat teams like Newcastle and if we beat teams like them and also defeat Chelsea and Man city then it is realistic we could win the title.

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07 Dec 2015 12:36:03
Cheers terry, I didn't mention that we shouldn't expect to beat Newcastle in my post? Agree with what u are saying. I just hate the negative vibes after a defeat . Cheers terry.

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07 Dec 2015 03:47:36
We have a very average to low level squad.

Coutinho is the only top player along with Sturidge when fit.

Ibe is very poor and is making looking Benteke even poorer. He makes the run in the box and all hell breaks loose. He stands as if he is facing an oncoming car headlight. Instead of passing he plays something no one understands.

Benteke is a good player with both his heading and has a very good shot. Only thing is he is not suited to the type of game we are playing.

Lucas is Lucas - clean side ways pass master and Allen is sporting very good beard. that is the only positive. Both are really below average players.

Can is a luxury but better than the above two as he is dares to run and cross the ball.

Firminio -Better than Lallana but very hot and cold games he has.

Lallana is all huff and puff. Better than Lucas / Allan types.

Moreno and Clyne both are average to decent players.

I missed the Southampton game live and was reading reviews here and Guardian where everyone was going gun ho. Watched a repeat telecast and found our play normal. nothing sensational.

Brad Smith cross, Can outside foot cross and rare Allen cross which Struridge managed to score where the highlight.
Origi's flick for Allen's cross was also instrumental.

Is Tex also poor? Why doesn't he get a look in in stead of Ibe, Lallana, Firmino?
Was thinking he is good based on his cameos. Maybe who knows.

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{Ed001's Note - how is Ibe making Benteke look poor, it is the other way round! Ibe makes a run and no one is offering him any option to play a ball in. No runs, no movement, nothing unless Clyne overlaps. Look at the early moments of the game, Moreno breaks forward down the left, ball is played out to him on the wing and he crosses in to absolutely no one, even though they have had time to get there. Where is Benteke? Jogging, yes jogging, towards (and I do mean towards, as he was nowhere near actually getting into) the box. A top class striker would be busting a gut to get into the box the moment the space opened in front for the run. He offered absolutely nothing yesterday and it is no wonder Klopp has been leaving him on the bench most weeks.}

07 Dec 2015 04:23:06
Sami I think when we don't click like we didn't last night, most players will look poor, but it's not like they're all suddenly rubbish.

We set ourselves up badly, Benteke was a blocker on both attack and defence, however we also didn't set up well for him either. He needs something we don't have in our side (namely one up with three pacy wingers to feed him) the question is does Klopp try fix that or just revert to playing Firmino or Sturridge up top.

I hope he does the latter and uses Benteke only as a plan B (or as part of a two striker diamond with someone mobile) . It was a noticable impact once Origi came on which is more of a comment of structure than Origi himself IMO.

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07 Dec 2015 04:03:53
Maybe he was not running today or in fact I am not sure if he suits the style of play that we ask from him with the types of Coutinho and Firmino.

As a forward we need to trust (INSTINCT) that the ball is going to be there which can be utilized to our advantage. With Ibe and Moreno we don't know when they are going to pass. At the back of the mind, we know where the ball has to go to but 1 in 10 times we get to see them do it and that too erratically. I mean they have Zero VISUALIZATION and as a forward I cannot trust to make that run and this is exactly in Bentenke's mind and so he is confused.

Missed Milner. Again decent average player with his limitations. He knows that and plays to his maximum.

He can at least cross the ball, take spot kicks and runs his heart out though his corners can be better.

He is not as bad as.

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{Ed001's Note - the forward should make the run to give a midfielder an option to pass to, regardless of whether it is coming or not. Bad attitude when you stand around because it has not come in once or twice, but Benteke is worse as he has never made the runs to begin with.}

07 Dec 2015 04:51:05
benteke has been frustrating lately. I don't think he will be considered a flop, but he will hold us back from reaching our full potential and will most likely be moved on in the future.

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07 Dec 2015 05:18:27
Samikewell, if I remember correctly you did the same thing after our last loss. You critiqued a bunch of players with reasoning which clearly showed your lack of understanding of the game. A few posters then suggested you were a simple utd troll. I'm not sure which is worse.

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07 Dec 2015 06:57:35
That original post is a load of cack.

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07 Dec 2015 07:00:07
When Benteke came in the summer, me and many other people here said he is a good buy if we can produce service to him. The problem is Our creativity in the last third has been poor since Suarez left and it got worse when Sterling left. Yes Wednesday was an exception but overall this season if we didn't intercept a ball near the opposition box but had to build from behind we were poor.

Benteke proved himself to be a fantastic striker in Villa, and he didn't play with Messi and Suarez there. He scored some sensational goals for us as well and if we learn how to play to his strengths he will do that for us as well.

If not, no one else will, not even Sturridge, as teams will learn to close him down. Yes part of it may have to be Benteke moving better in the box for example in that Moreno cross, but a lot of it has to do with the quality of service.

Neil Jones from the Echo wrote about Ibe yesterday, 'his potential is vast, so too his talent, but it is clear where he needs to improve, final ball. final ball, finall ball. Only when he iron this rather large flaw he will be special plaeyer'. Well said and I have been saying it for months. We have this problem with other players, final ball is awful. Milner for example just can't pass the ball.

The third Origi goal on Wednesday was such a rare exception, we score these type of goals so rarely while for other teams in the PL this is a typical goal. And we have Benteke, one of the best headers in the league. Our corners s a good example. We get so many of them and do so little although we have some good headers (Benteke, Skertl, Lovern) . We just can't cross.

Saying all this, with Coutinho on the pitch, with Sturridge, hopefully henderson and Benteke yes, and with Klopp orchestrating it all we can do some nice things. I don't think you can totally disregard the performances against Chelsea, City and Southampton and look only on yesterday. But at the moment we have serious problem against teams that close down their game. I think top 4 will be a big ask but we will give it a good go and may have a good run in some of the cup competitions. But I agree we need to buy some midfielders in the summer.

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{Ed001's Note - sorry but Benteke has proven nothing throughout his career, other than a bad attitude and that he picks up lots of injuries. If he is going to stand still there is no hope of creativity. Villa suffered because of his lack of movement meaning they had no options, we are suffering the same way. We had no shortage of creativity when Suarez was playing because he moved and gave options.}

07 Dec 2015 07:14:57
Sam, cannot believe the drivel I have just read, your post.

Our performance against the Saints 'normal'? I don't know what normal your referring to, because as mentioned in commentary that is their heaviest home defeat sines 1959, far from the norm then.
You then list 4 moments of brilliance that helped us score goals, United and Chelsea would kill for one moment of brilliance right now.

You have jumped on the team in such a childish and foolish manner. Ibe is a young lad, still 19, who is progressing very very well.
Clyde and Moreno are both dynamic, modern full-backs

Lucas has been solid.
Allen has improved, but yes is still poor.
Firmino has been extremely poor bar Chelsea and City away.
Benteke is immense when he's on it, but seems to lack motivation sometimes, one time was yesterday.

We lost, we didn't play well, but Newcastle did. Putting Sissoko on Moreno was a simple and effective tactic.
Everyone has to lose at some point and for us it was yesterday. Still not bad after we had won 7 of our last 8 in all competitions, better than can be said for our rivals for top four.

All in all, Sam, take your negative and thoughtless criticism of our team and shove it, so false it is untrue.

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07 Dec 2015 07:54:02
Stupid reactionary post based on absolutely nothing.

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07 Dec 2015 10:28:29
Maybe he is a simple UTD troll?

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07 Dec 2015 06:21:19
You cannot shoulder everything on Benteke. The players behind him did not either. We need bodies in the middle when your wingers / full backs put in croses.
And frankly that's not Firmino's cup of tea ( this system )
He believes and thrives in crisp movement rather wing play.

Our wide players / full backs in Clyne, Milner and Ibe are terrible crossers.

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07 Dec 2015 12:16:30
We said when we bought him, we don't cross much or well, you can't keep playing a player because he can do something if he wins a a header in the box, you need more to his game. Even so, like ed said, unless he was in the of already, he didn't put in much effort to get in the box.

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07 Dec 2015 21:24:48
You can cross the ball till you`re blue in the face. if your striker is jogging towards the area each time you look up to cross then, you`re wasting your time because he`ll never get there.

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07 Dec 2015 22:13:59
Sami that has to be one of the most stupid posts i have read on this site ever.

also EG i do agree a lot of our crosses are poor, but Moreno and ibe can sometimes put a decent ball in. Problem is unless there is studge on the pitch no one is putting 110% for attack the ball.

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06 Dec 2015 23:10:02
Ed001's thoughts on the match today?

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{Ed001's Note - we were overrun in midfield, and there was a complete lack of movement up top from Benteke, which left no out ball.}

07 Dec 2015 06:24:19
I don't think we were overrun in the middle at all. Newcastle had no interest in coming to us. They had man behind the ball and made it compact at the back.

Liverpool wasted the first 45 minutes simply trying to penetrate through the middle and new castle were happy letting us in.

Liverpool under any manager in the pat has simply failed to break teams who make it compact and disciplined at the back.

We don't have genuine players who could put in Crosses. Milner and Clyne are very very poor in terms of crosses.

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07 Dec 2015 14:32:50
^^^ sorry if this comes across as mean or bullying, but EG that is almost laughable. I mean seriously insulting to Newcastle

how can you say a team has sat deep when they have matched you for sprints, ground covered, beat you 2-0 and closed down every midfielder to the point, I;m not even sure Lucas Milner or allen had a 70% completion rate. Newcastle played almost man to man marking throughout the entire game, not one of our players had tim or space, and when they had the ball, they moved it across the pitch and made us chase, they rarely mis controlled or sent a pass short. in essence they were clinical in posession.

The rest of your points just make absolutely no sense, we played wide Moreno got up well, Ibe did too. That is testified by the amount of corners from attempted cross we had, our problem was they were both marked so tightly out wide they struggled to cross, and when they did, Benteke had no interest.

It's almost like you live in your own little Harry world at times. Please just stop with the nonesense.

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06 Dec 2015 20:45:09
Hey Ed 001,

If you are around. I posted this morning that the Toon would be really up for today's match and they were good value for the win.

Do you think we should have made so many changes today, ? Six in total, I personally think we should have stuck with the same team and formation that beat the Saints so convincingly. I know we have a game on Thursday but we've already qualified so for me, the changes should have been made then.

The midfield was woeful today, thought Hendo should have been introduced at some point.

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{Ed001's Note - I don't think the changes were the issue, it was simply the lack of quality in the team which was shown up.}

07 Dec 2015 05:02:21
benteke did nothing, lucas looked tired, milner his usual, firmino and allen missing, Ibe tried. the whole teams confidence just got worse as the match went on and everyone underperformed in the end. should have kept same attacking formation, it was newcastle for christs sake. you know you ain't going to do nothing with milner, lucas, allen and benteke leading the line. oh well, lesson leant.

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07 Dec 2015 05:21:22
I thought lallana added some creativity when he came on. Gave the toon something to think about and set sturridge up for one he should have buried.

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07 Dec 2015 00:30:19
Hi,

Was at the match today and just wanted to see what other people's opinions of Benteke.

I was watching him intently most of the afternoon and was left nothing but frustrated by him. Before this looks like a bashing it isn't. But I'm ever more emphatic in my conviction that he simply doesn't fit in. He's not a bad player, he's just not a player that can associate with the majority of players we have. Every time a fullback would have the ball inside Newcastle's half Benteke would be calling for it in the air. He also spent most of the match on Mbemba's shoulder, not too dissimilar to what Papiss Cisse was doing to Lovren. The problem is, the players who need to link up with him simply struggle to do so. Firmino in particular has never had a good game as far as I can recall whilst playing with Benteke (noted that Firmino hasn't had many good games) . Perhaps its easy to portray my point when you see how the team plays with Sturridge. When Sturridge is on he drops deep, moving the back line around, allowing our players more pockets to play intricate football. Whilst the performance today in particular was poor we created a little more when Sturridge was on the pitch. He also has the pace to run in behind, something which Benteke does not.

The problem for me with Benteke then, a problem that is similar for City and Bony, is that he is too much of a divergence from how we would play if all our best players were fit. (Bony, similarly simply does not operate in the same way that Aguero does) . I fail to see how Benteke then, can be anything other than a backup, an alternative option, for the end of games. Which is a shame, given the money that was spent.

Lastly, Klopp noted that the pressing was off today, and Benteke was certainly a hinderence rather than a help to this. He is not agile or willing enough to close down with the other players. Whilst he is perhaps not as lazy as Balotelli was he does not cover himself in glory in this department.

Therefore in my opinion, whilst you have to make allowances for Sturridge's injuries, and Benteke was perhaps a signing to do this, his replacement should be someone who plays a similar way i. e. offers about 80% e. g. of what Sturridge can give you in ability. Naturally it is so much harder to change the whole team set up otherwise.

I have tried to provide my opinion in a critical and logical manner, and would love to see what other people think.

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07 Dec 2015 00:48:13
I notice that too, benteke is schweizer when paired with firmino without coutinho.

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07 Dec 2015 01:08:33
Agree 100% SMR - Benteke would work very well in a side with Mane, Bolasie type wingers who create the pace and panic around him and he can be the finishing touch, but with the likes of Coutinho, Llalana and Firmino they need someone with movement to feed off and he isn't it. I also agree with the analogy of City who look a bit lost with Bony upfront and without Aguero making runs for the likes of Silva/Nasri.

The best setup I can see for Benteke right now would be with as a twin striker, with Sturridge to provide the movement we need upfront. I do think he can be a very effective plan B though if we're struggling for a breakthrough.

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07 Dec 2015 01:09:00
SMR, watched the game on the telly, so wasn't able to home in Benteke as much as you were at the stadium. However, from what I have seen, I totally agree. There is always the argument that great players should be able to play regardless of the system, however, when they are as different as BBB and Studge, it causes a big issue for the rest of the team. Unless Klopp is going to change most of the midfield and forward personnel to suit BBB, it just won't work.

I do think that Ings offers that 80% of Studge and, whilst I am in no way trying to compare Ings and Suarez, I do believe that they similarities in style of Suarez and Sturridge was a major factor in our 13/14 season. When they both played, they could play off each other beautifully, and when one or other was not available, either of them could lead the line and elicit chances from the rest of the team.

I hope that Ings comes back stronger and gets a chance to build such a relationship with Studge.

I'm interested to see more of Origi as, at his age and with his limited appearances to date, it will be interesting to see what sort of style he develops. I do believe that Klopp sees more potential in him than in BBB, based mainly on the few comments that Klopp has made about him.

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07 Dec 2015 01:39:06
SMR, as your post about Benteke is logical and robust, I won't give up on him just yet. He didn't have a good game but then again, no one did. Klopp wanted Benteke at BVB hence, I still believe he had an idea as to how to use him then and still has a way to use him now. It was a bad perf but this is no time to throw the baby out with the bath water, at least not yet.

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07 Dec 2015 01:39:10
Things we have learned today:

Klopp WILL get rid of Allen (which i was originally unsure about but have to agree, but for the good of his career)

Can will never replace the requirements and expectations from the manager (decent squad player - but open to offers)

Stevie Gerrard (on top of his game, ergo, too late, is missed)

Alonso should return after a good kick up the fabarse to get him match fit

I love Lucas, but can't help think that a general of midfield is required.

Today was Newcastle's Final - and credit where credit is due - but in my opinion, todays performance lacked that leader approach.

I am more than comfortable with Lucas, but can't but think he requires a 'leader' in front of him to dictate, as we are a team craving leadership, albeit, with Lucas keeping his place.

The likes of your Keane and Souness should be held in the highest regard as the mentality of such players is underestimated in todays game. Evans signed Ince, (I hated it) but how on the ball was he?!

This league is so open, it's frightening, and in my opinion, it's of a consequence of the lack of leadership on the field, and I stress that across the board.

Benteke looks slow and lumpy, Sturridge looks unfit yet nore lively. big decisions I think.



Someone needs to grab the game by the scruff of it.

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07 Dec 2015 03:00:09
Just with regards to benteke and his pace. You don't have to be proper pacey to run in behind. Timing and awareness is all that is needed plus the willingness to do so. Studge did it twice perfectly having not played for ages and scored! Just wanting to get in behind really which he could easily do bare in mind CB are not usually the paciest of customers. If he put the effort in to make more movement then maybe it would help create a bit of space to play in down the centre. He isn't slow. it does frustrate me sometimes watching him when a simple run in behind might have created a chance for himself or space for someone else to do something.

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07 Dec 2015 02:50:53
You all keep mentioning klopp wanted benteke at Dortmund. What he has said is they were aware of him due to his exploits in the prem but did they actually move for him. or get further than going actually nlw we have scouted hkm je doesn't suits us so we will move on.

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07 Dec 2015 02:11:19
Firmino was a monster at City, and also had very good games against Chelsea and Bournemouth. Benteke did not start in any of those games.

Firmino best game (City) was also the last time he started with creative players up front in attack-- Coutinho and Lallana.

Since City, every game that Firmino has started has, inexplicably, been with Benteke. Against Swansea, Lallana started, but Firmino was isolated out wide, likely to accommodate/feed Benteke.

No one plays well with Benteke. He does not press. Does not work. His movement is entirely one dimensional. His link-up play is awful-- it's always the same, he never sets up or plays-in other players on the goal. He usually sends the ball out wide, and then calls for a cross to be passed back in.

Attackers who play with Benteke are isolated and marginalised. Thus, our attack is entirely marginalised when he starts.

He should be an impact sub. That's it.

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07 Dec 2015 06:27:42
Klopp looked at Benteke is one of those, A club looks at 100's of players over a year. I don't think Dortmund had a bid and missed out on Benteke due the price.

His game comes into light when you play with full backs and wingers.

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07 Dec 2015 00:25:18
After the loss, I read these nonsense cliches such as 'reality check', and I sit back and ask, "wait, what reality check? "

Seriously, what reality check? I'm not the only one asking that. Klopp is too.

I'm in the camp that believes Liverpool could mount a title challenge. Do some of you think people like us believe that we would not have another bad game, another loss, for the rest of the reason? Did you think we suddenly saw Liverpool as unstoppable? Because that's the only basis of the 'reality check' line, and that basis simply does not exist.

Title challenge or not, Liverpool were always going to have more bad games, and more losses. So please, quit it with the stupid 'reality check' line because you think it will make you look like an expert pundit, because it doesn't. If you think one game uncovers a whole reality then you're a fool.

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07 Dec 2015 01:25:17
Spot on, Nicks! We lost a game, so what? We move on.

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07 Dec 2015 02:31:35
We lost a game when the contenders all falter, it golden opportunity missed.

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07 Dec 2015 04:26:27
That is beside the point. We lost a game while other contenders lost a game. It doesn't make us look any worse or any better. But I must stress again that it is just one game.

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07 Dec 2015 05:50:38
Rather lose a game when the other contenders also faulter! If they all won, and we lost, we would be 3 points lower. Now, we just 1 point lower.

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07 Dec 2015 07:09:41
It was a reality check after the Southampton win on Wednesday and it should be a reality check for people liie you who still mention that word title and us in the same sentence. If you want to win the title you can allow very few bad games. I am willing to guess we already have more loses than Chelsea last season or close to it anyway. So yes, to win the title you will have to win almost every game from now on. In our last four league games we lost two, won one with a lot of luck and had one impressive win. This title talk is totally rediculus. we are towards the end of the first round and we will be 8 in the table after the game tonight. Even to get to the top 4 we will have to win something like 7 our of 8 games from now on.

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